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Should I buy this banjo?
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 09 May 02 - 02:52 PM Well, those people live in a different world than I do, both as to genre, picking style, and certainly as to ability! Those banjos, while doubtless fine instruments, have nothing to do with me, and I really don't have an opinion abut them. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Steve Latimer Date: 09 May 02 - 07:58 AM So, Dave, what are you really trying to say? I do like the BSO. Now, what are your thoughts on the electric "banjos" that guys like Bela Fleck are playing? |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 08 May 02 - 08:16 PM Actually, Rick, it's the peghead, the ugly and obvious join in the neck, the lack of a separate fingerboard, and the general air of cheapitude of the whole BSO*. Dave Oesterreich *Banjo Shaped Object |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 08 May 02 - 08:09 PM Who's Brittany Spears? Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Rick Fielding Date: 08 May 02 - 05:52 PM It's that peghead isn't it Dave? Who the hell were they designing it for, Annette Funicello?* * Sorry don't know your age. Substitute Brittany Spears if you're not familiar with Annette. Cheers Rick |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 08 May 02 - 03:02 PM Bigchuck said: "I had a Goodtime for a while, and it is a nice starter banjo but plain. " I have to quibble with your terminology. By me, it's not "plain"--it's "butt-ugly". Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: GUEST,Russ Date: 08 May 02 - 11:55 AM Let me complicate matters just a bit as far as sound is concerned. My only experience is with banjos. I cannot speak for other instruments. A banjo has three different (sometimes extremely different) sounds. 1. What you, the player, hear. 2. What the listener hears. 3. What is heard on a recording. It is not necessarily a no brainer to pick which sound to go with. For example, I don't like the sound of a tubaphone when I am behind the banjo, But I like the sound I get when I'm in front of it. How do I know? True story: At a festival I played a tubaphone. After some noodling I handed it back to the vendor (someone I knew) and said that I really could not get excited by the sound of the banjo. I forgot that the minidisc recorder in my pocket was on. Later when I got home and played that disc I heard me playing. I thought "Wow, nice tone." Then I heard me telling the vendor that I didn't like the tone. It is not really a question of which sound is "right." There are a million different banjo sounds and all are JUST RIGHT. What you are looking for is the sound you want to hear (or you want the live audience to hear, or you want the listener to hear on a CD) when you play the banjo. Don't dismiss your inner instinct. Pay serious attention to it. I know more than one banjo player who bought a banjo because someone else (presumably more knowledgeable than they) liked it. The relationship didn't last. It's like marrying the guy your parents like best. The most important thing to do is listen, listen, listen to banjo playing, live and recorded. Dwight Diller says a person learning to play banjo should spend most of his/her time listening. One thing I've noticed is that not all banjos are equally user friendly, but some are worth some time and effort. My banjo is a Mike Ramsey Bacon. I pulled it off the wa11, strummed the strings and thought "YES!" and bought it. But the early going was not easy. There was no honeymoon. It fought me every step of the way. I learned early never to show fear in its presence. It took a while to hear the same sound in my playing that I heard the first time I strummed those strings. I have since learned that this is not an unusual experience for Bacon players. |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: bigchuck Date: 07 May 02 - 09:40 PM Sharon...I had a Goodtime for a while, and it is a nice starter banjo but plain. We recently got our first Saga open-back at the store I work in and I like it a lot..well made, attractive, and affordable. I have not played a Gold Tone in some years so can't comment on them. One quite nice little banjo you might give a look at is a Vega Little Wonder (made by Deering). I've had one for about 3 years now and like it a lot. I probably use mine in about the same way you would and personally would not want either a resonator or a banjo with a heavy tone ring cause I think they might be too loud to fit in the group. Sandy |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: SharonA Date: 07 May 02 - 05:16 PM Russ: You are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT that those are the most important questions!!!!!! I'll answer them in order: I like the sound of the banjo in question, but I haven't educated myself sufficiently (yet!) to know which sound is "right". I'll have to haunt a music store or two, and have an employee or a friend say, "Now, you'll notice that this model sounds more metallic than that one, and the other one is thumpy..." So far, I've depended on a couple of people I know from the local folk-song society who know banjos to tell me that this banjo has a good sound. My inner instinct says "sweet but a bit soft" but the impression of volume may change as I learn more and become less tentative in my playing of the instrument. One thing I will do is to have a banjo-playing friend play this banjo so I can hear how it ought to sound! Do I think the relationship will last? That depends not only on the sound but also on the looks and feel of the thing. I fell in love with the looks of it when it came out of the case, before I'd ever touched it. And it feels right "on me", in my hands. So if I don't get this particular banjo, it's likely that I'll end up with a similar one. The action seems easy and good, though again I'll need to follow a few lessons from the instruction book and practice in order to be sure, over time, that it's right for me (and I'll have to compare it with other banjos, and I'll have to ask a knowledgable friend to check the action, too). Again, Russ, you are SO RIGHT about the relationship between human and instrument: if each is not supportive of the other, it'll be an unhappy marriage. The instrument will live in its case, and the human will be poorer for it, not only monetarily but musically. |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: GUEST,Russ Date: 07 May 02 - 02:57 PM Lots of good advice. No one has asked the most important question. How do you like the sound of the banjo? When you simply strum the open strings, how do you react? Do you think "YES!" Or are you vaguely dissatisfied. Too loud? Too soft? Too metallic? Too thumpy? No matter how good it looks or how mint its condition, you've gotta like the basic sound. Playing a banjo requires you to get really intimate with it for long periods of time. Do you think the relationship will last. Next important question. How's the action? Does it play itself. Do you have to fight it? Will it be a relationship of mutual support or an adversarial one? |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 07 May 02 - 02:39 PM I know that I would not worry about the lack of a warranty on the banjo, if I were in your position. In the first place, no manufacturer gives a guarantee or warranty that he actually thinks he'll be called on to honor, and while you say that the banjo hasn't been played much, it has SOME mileage on it, and I think that any problems with it that might exist would have come to light by this point. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Steve Latimer Date: 07 May 02 - 01:26 PM Charley, good point about the strap. My Uncle has a permanently attached sliding Capo, I think it's a Shubb. He's removing it and replacing it with HO Spikes. He finds that the capo gets in the way when he plays up the neck. I have spikes and they work fine. |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Charley Noble Date: 07 May 02 - 01:18 PM Another point that applies to any banjo you decide on is 5th string capoing. As a singer who uses his banjo for accompaniment, I often need to play with the capo on the 2nd, 5th, and even 7th frets; I generally play out of a modified C-tuning which seems to give me the range of melody notes that I want for many songs. For the 5th string I've drilled and hammered in the HO gaugue railroad spikes at the appropriate frets under the 5th string. I still have an inexhaustable supply of the little darlings, by the way, in case anyone wants to PM me for some. Other folks prefer various 5th string appliances that accomplish the same thing but strike me as somewhat garish. I doubt that you will really need a resonator for jamming, especially with a tone ring. Banjos are heavy enough without adding another few pounds. A good strap is essential for stand-up playing. |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: SharonA Date: 07 May 02 - 11:11 AM Oh, yes, I should also have mentioned that the banjo for sale also has an Elite head. Hmmm... seems I've been looking at banjo headstock pictures all wrong... they all tune from the back! Ya learn sumthin' new ever' day. |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: SharonA Date: 07 May 02 - 11:04 AM Oh, yes, I should also have mentioned that the banjo for sale also has an Elite head. |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Rick Fielding Date: 07 May 02 - 11:00 AM NOW LISTEN UP MUDCATEERS! I would never (what never?) NO, NEVER....start a thread with the title "Should I buy this banjo"? As veterans here well know, there would HAVE to be a pun or joke in the title.....and NOT just to annoy those who demand seriousness in their Mudcat Headings. I MIGHT have started one that said: "Will a new banjo get me invited to parties"? "How do you feel about SkinHeads"? "Are five fingers enough for five strings"? "Help Me...I'm a Frailure"! "Canada enacts new 'Banjo Control' Laws. NRA outraged"! ......but since it's here..... Sharon, if you're not going to do Scruggs' stuff, you may not want a resonator. The Goldtone frailer is excellent. Bit better (IMO) than the Saga (which is also top-notch) Cheers The REAL Rick |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Fortunato Date: 07 May 02 - 10:54 AM Sharon I've been next to 'bout a million banjos and even carried a case a couple of times, but I don't know anything about them. Steve, thanks, I figured it had. cheers, Chance |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: SharonA Date: 07 May 02 - 10:54 AM Here's Gold Tone's listing for the MM-150 that shows the headstock with tuning pegs in the back. Again, the one I'm borrowing has Waverly tuners instead of those shown here: http://www.goldtone.com/products/details.asp?subarea=openbackbanjos&subarea2=mm-150 |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Steve Latimer Date: 07 May 02 - 10:49 AM Fortunato, This has been discussed a while back here. |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: SharonA Date: 07 May 02 - 10:44 AM Thanks for the continued good advice, everyone. Sorry about this thread's weirdness and the resultant confusion; the Mudcat Forum was having a technical problem yesterday (according to a thread in the Help Forum, one of the server computers had an incorrect setting for the day's date). Thank you, JoeClone, for copying-and-pasting my original request back up at the top of the thread. At first glance (until one reads the fine print) it looks as if Rick Fielding was the one asking about the banjo, but if he isn't having an identity crisis over it, I certainly won't! *G* Back to banjos: To answer Charley's question, yes, the Gold Tone MM-150 that I'm borrowing does have an arm rest (no key for the tone ring, though, and no strap). I don't have to fly anywhere with instruments, but a hardshell case is a good idea for storage anyway. I don't really have room to lay the gig bag flat, and I'm leery of standing it up on end and putting the weight of the instrument on the bottom of the tone ring inside the gig bag.... or am I worrying about that needlessly? Good point about the warranty, Steve. So far, we've been doing price comparisons between this instrument and new ones on the 'net, but this instrument is not new – just not played very often. Bear in mind, too, that in addition to the Shubb 5th-string capo, it's been modified with Waverly tuning pegs (so it tunes from the back of the headstock instead of from the sides as in pictures linked from this thread); does that add to or detract from the value of this instrument? Still curious about that resonator, too. I'd certainly like to do a lot of jamming with other instrumentalists (how else will I learn to play the banjo along with everybody else?), so eventually, when I'm good enough at it, I'd like the instrument to be heard in a jamming situation! On the other hand, my interest is in learning frailing and clawhammer; I can't imagine that, with lupus, my hands could handle Scruggs-style picking. Anyway, just in case I do decide I want a resonator somewhere down the line, I'm still wondering: can one simply go out and buy a resonator separately and expect it to fit a traditional banjo, or does one have to buy a bluegrass banjo with resonator in the first place and then take it off when one wants to play open-back? One more technical question (for now): the MM-150 has multiple truss-rods; the MC-150, the Saga SS-10 that Steve mentioned, and others I've seen on the 'net have a single truss rod. Is it preferable to have more than one, or isn't it that big a deal? Anahootz, thanks for the link. Fortunato, I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only banjo-shopper here at the moment! Hope you know more about 'em than I do. BTW I went to the library last night and borrowed a copy of the Pete Seeger instruction book for 5-string banjo (third edition revised). What a joy to read! Sharon |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Fortunato Date: 07 May 02 - 10:12 AM I'm (please don't throw anything) thinking of buying a banjo myself. Has anyone compare the Deering Goodtime Banjo; The SAGA SS310 and the Goldtone listed above?
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Steve Latimer Date: 07 May 02 - 09:58 AM SharonA, Although it's not as simple as this, generally Resonator 5-String banjo's are for Scruggs style Bluegrass pickin'. Open backs are used for the Clawhammer/Frailing style. Resonators not only amplify the sound, but also give a sharper tone that isn't as suited to the frailing style. The imitation Hide head on this banjo also takes some of the brightness away from the sound. This is definitely a frailing banjo, and probably a pretty darn good one.
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: GUEST,Charley Noble Date: 07 May 02 - 09:19 AM Unless you jam with other instrumentalists on a regular basis, a resonator should be unnecessary. My S.S.Stewart is noisey enough without one and most often I stick a dish cloth in to further dampen the sound. If the banjo in question lacks an arm rest, you might consider getting one to save wear and tear on your arm (resting the arm on the rim can do real damage, to the arm, if you're playing for any prolonged time). I would also recommend a substantial hardshell case if you "fly" between gigs. Good luck! Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Anahootz Date: 06 May 02 - 11:39 PM Lemme help you out. Go here. Thanks. |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Jon Freeman Date: 06 May 02 - 08:35 PM Thanks Jeri... Jon |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Jeri Date: 06 May 02 - 08:28 PM Jon, if you go back up, you'll see that some completely anonymous JoeClone found the primary post and pasted it. Webweasels... |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Steve Latimer Date: 06 May 02 - 08:19 PM Wow, is this thread ever weird. I guess that the upgrades, taxes, the case and Capo all add to the value. I don't know if the new one would have any sort of warranty that this one wouldn't. That might be a factor.
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Jon Freeman Date: 06 May 02 - 08:11 PM I doubt I can add anything to this thread but plase someone tell me where it starts. The opening post I see is from Rick Fielding saying
"Hi Sharon. I've played about five Gold Tones (including the model you're talking about) and I'm very impressed with them. If it feels comfortable, go for it. They're a well-made instrument. " Presumably there is another thread involved which I haven't read? Jon |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 06 May 02 - 07:24 PM A resonator is to make the banjo louder, to project above a band. For your stated purposes I can't think of a good reason to have a resonator. Indeed, if you intend to sing with it, the extra volume could be a pain in the patootie (technical term). Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: SharonA Date: 06 May 02 - 07:18 PM *refresh* Okay, it looks like the Mudcat Forum is back from its little side trip into the Twilight Zone. For future reference (in case someone finds this thread a year from now), all posts up to now were actually made on 06-May-02, starting with my query at 4:54 PM. All posts dated 05-May-02 are misdated, and were written in response to the 4:54 PM post. Clear as mud? |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: SharonA Date: 06 May 02 - 06:38 PM Thanks to you, too, Dave and Rick! Hmm... this thread seems to have juggled its posts around! I've poked around the 'net a bit, looking at the Gold Tone models, and now I'm wondering about resonators (particularly on the MC-150 model Gold Tone). It doesn't appear that a resonator is available for the MM-150 specifically; I'm not sure that it would be proper to put a resonator on that style of banjo anyway... or that I'd even want one in the first place. If you're not playing bluegrass, do you even need one? (Please forgive the dumb questions; I hadn't thought seriously about the subject until my friends lent me this banjo yesterday, so I'm trying to take the crash course here! Thanks for being patient with me.) Because of a wrong date setting on a Mudcat server, this message may appear out of order. It was actually posted on 6-May, not 5-May. --JoeClone, 7-May-02. |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: SharonA Date: 06 May 02 - 06:19 PM Thanks, Steve! That's a great start! Anyone else have other models to suggest? I see by this page that I could build my own, with "no special tools" required: http://www.goldtone.com/products/kit_mc150.asp (though this is a kit for the MC-150, not the MM-150). Wonder what non-special tools are required?? Because of a wrong date setting on a Mudcat server, this message may appear out of order. It was actually posted on 6-May, not 5-May. --JoeClone, 7-May-02. |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 06 May 02 - 06:00 PM From the link given by Steve Latimer you can see that a new one can be had for $589. However, does the banjo you have in hand have a case with it for that price? I didn't got into it at that site, but my guess is that it doesn't. So add maybe $75 for a case to that $589. Depending on the party you're buying it from, you may have to pay sales tax or may not, and from the "new" source you may or may not. Chances are you'd have to pay some shipping if you bought the new equivalent, which you wouldn't if you buy the one you're trying out. With the "new" one you'd want to buy a capo, which is included in what you have. You'd have some shipping delay buying from the "new" source, which you wouldn't with the one in hand. Buying the "new" banjo, you'd disappoint your folkie friends, which is an intangible for you to consider. It seems to me that $600 is a good buy for you, especially if it includes the case. And the banjo should be just what the doctor ordered for your projected use. Dave Oesterreich
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Rick Fielding Date: 06 May 02 - 05:56 PM Putting aside, for the time being, the debate about whether anyone should buy any banjo... *G* Here's what a couple of folkie friends of mine want to sell: a Gold Tone MM-150 (5-string), "mountain maple" open back, in mint condition, with metal tone ring, upgraded with Waverly tuners and Shubb 5th-string capo, includes new padded gig bag. $600 or best offer. I'm borrowing it for a month to try it out, although I don't know the first thing about chording or frailing or clawhammer or anything. My aim is to learn, and my desire is to have a better-than-bottom-of-the-line instrument that I'll want to keep. If I upgrade later, I'd still want to keep my first banjo for outdoor gigs and such uses. At this point, I see myself using a banjo for mountain-music tunes ("Wildwood Flower", "Red Wing", etc.) (not planning on rapid-play stuff like "Foggy Mountain Breakdown", at least not yet) and as occasional accompaniment to my duet partner's guitar in our folk-pop music act (for which I need a strong sound to stand up to his power-playing on his Martin D-28). So is this the banjo I should buy for what I want to do? It's a sweet-looking little thing, not a scratch on it, although there's a tiny depression in the back of the neck, under the finish, exactly where the 5th string ends. Is the price right for the model and its modifications (and the gig bag)? Any and all advice appreciated... and please don't be too nasty with the banjo jokes! ;^) Thanks! Sharon
Hi Sharon. I've played about five Gold Tones (including the model you're talking about) and I'm very impressed with them. If it feels comfortable, go for it. They're a well-made instrument. Cheers Rick |
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Subject: RE: Should I buy this banjo? From: Steve Latimer Date: 06 May 02 - 05:40 PM Sharon Well, there's a new one here: And I would suggest looking at the Saga that Charcloth and a few others just got. It has been getting very good reviews around here: |
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Subject: Should I buy this banjo? From: SharonA Date: 06 May 02 - 04:54 PM Putting aside, for the time being, the debate about whether anyone should buy any banjo... *G* Here's what a couple of folkie friends of mine want to sell: a Gold Tone MM-150 (5-string), "mountain maple" open back, in mint condition, with metal tone ring, upgraded with Waverly tuners and Shubb 5th-string capo, includes new padded gig bag. $600 or best offer. I'm borrowing it for a month to try it out, although I don't know the first thing about chording or frailing or clawhammer or anything. My aim is to learn, and my desire is to have a better-than-bottom-of-the-line instrument that I'll want to keep. If I upgrade later, I'd still want to keep my first banjo for outdoor gigs and such uses. At this point, I see myself using a banjo for mountain-music tunes ("Wildwood Flower", "Red Wing", etc.) (not planning on rapid-play stuff like "Foggy Mountain Breakdown", at least not yet) and as occasional accompaniment to my duet partner's guitar in our folk-pop music act (for which I need a strong sound to stand up to his power-playing on his Martin D-28). So is this the banjo I should buy for what I want to do? It's a sweet-looking little thing, not a scratch on it, although there's a tiny depression in the back of the neck, under the finish, exactly where the 5th string ends. Is the price right for the model and its modifications (and the gig bag)? Any and all advice appreciated... and please don't be too nasty with the banjo jokes! ;^) Thanks! Sharon |
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