Geud Man of Ballangigh

Subject: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Carl
Date: 20 Apr 98 - 02:36 PM

On a record with a fiddler and two recorder-players I heard the tune "The Geud Man of Ballangigh". Does anybody know from which area this tune is and which is meant by th title ?
thanks and greetings, Carl

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Bruce O.
Date: 20 Apr 98 - 05:51 PM

See the earliest tune copy reference and comments in the ENGDANA.TXT file on my website. www.erols.com/olsonw

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Carl
Date: 20 Apr 98 - 06:06 PM

I only found this:
Good Luck at last; CDM2 253: Good Luck at last; DMB4 231: geud man of Ballangigh; to a new Scotch Jig, The [Later, "We'll a to Kelso go,' SMM #561]; DMA9A: Good Man of Ballangigh, to a new Scotch Jigg; CDM1 230:

So it´s from Scotland. Are there also lyrics known to it?

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Harald
Date: 20 Apr 98 - 06:54 PM

During a guided tour through Edinburgh castle I came to know by the way that the geud man of ballangigh was used as a nickname for some english king. Please don´t ask which one. There also was a longer story about it, which I can´t remember due to the fact that it´s some years ago. As aggravating circumstances the guide was a Scotsman, which caused me to understand just the half of it.

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Bruce O.
Date: 20 Apr 98 - 07:53 PM

That's pretty close to what I heard, and I think there was a song. But I got the impression, which may be wrong, that the song was written to fit the title long after the tune appeared. That's not uncommon. "Seanbuy/ Shambuy/ Sen Buidhe" in my scarce songs is one. I've forgotten if I gave the one to "Drops of Brandy". I would appear that in The Dancing Master, and the other early copy, that the title refered to a particular dance, not a song.

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Bruce O.
Date: 20 Apr 98 - 07:58 PM

I forgot to point out the error in my file in indenting "Geud Man" (filed as if spelled 'good'). I looked and saw my error and was hoping I could correct it before anybody bothered to look. Now corrected. The tune has nothing to do with "Good Luck at last.

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: JB
Date: 21 Apr 98 - 12:58 AM

If I remember correctly, "The Geud Man of Ballangigh" was the title of both the tune and the english country dance. Is it a Playford tune, perhaps?

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Bruce O.
Date: 21 Apr 98 - 08:56 AM

Playford and Walsh, but the dance is called that and the tune is called 'a new Scotch jig'.

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Harald
Date: 21 Apr 98 - 06:28 PM

I found a note that associated the year 1709 with that tune. That´s during the reign of queen Anne. Hm, not quite the right one...
I guess, it´s not quite easy to get some information on that one...

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: bigj
Date: 21 Apr 98 - 06:57 PM

So far as I'm aware, the dance is called 'The Geud Man...', but the tune usually used for the dance is called 'Hunt the Squirrell' (Playford).

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Carl
Date: 21 Apr 98 - 07:23 PM

By the way, what is Playford, please? The author? a song collection ?

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Bruce Olson
Date: 21 Apr 98 - 07:53 PM

John (later Henry, the John Young) issued a series of books of English Country Dances, tunes and dance instructions starting in 1651. It eventually reached 3 volumes, and the latest edition of vol. 1 is the 18th (and there were ocassionaly suplementary sheets with no edition number) and is undated, but about 1725. Vol. 2 reached a 4th (last) edition in 1728. I've never seen much about Vol. 3. In 1706, I think it was some competition started in 1706, but the earliest extant edition is from Walsh, Hare, and Randell, with '24 New Country Country Dances for the Year 1708'. In 1718 Walsh issued a big volume, and in 1719 a second followed, and these were entituled 'The Compleat Country Dancing Master. A new edition came out in 1731. "Geud Man of Ballangigh" as noted above was published by Playford and later by Walsh, 1718. "Hunt the squirell" was published by Playford and later again by Walsh in the 1718 volume. Both tunes were reprinted in Oswald Caledonian Pocket Companion, but not with any dance directions. I have neither dance as published earlier.

I talked tow two wuite experienced Scottish country dancers last Saturday night and they assured me that any title they knew was the title of a dance, and never that of the tune. When I asked them if there was any shorthand way of identifying a dance (like theme or stressed note codes for music) they look at me as if I had just arrived form Mars with too few parts for some of me and too many elsewhere. Titles tell one nothing.

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Bruce Olson
Date: 21 Apr 98 - 07:56 PM

John (later Henry, then John Young) issued a series of books of English Country Dances, tunes and dance instructions starting in 1651. It eventually reached 3 volumes, and the latest edition of vol. 1 is the 18th (and there were ocassionaly suplementary sheets with no edition number) and is undated, but about 1725. Vol. 2 reached a 4th (last) edition in 1728. I've never seen much about Vol. 3. In 1706, I think it was some competition started in 1706, but the earliest extant edition is from Walsh, Hare, and Randell, with '24 New Country Country Dances for the Year 1708'. In 1718 Walsh issued a big volume, and in 1719 a second followed, and these were entituled 'The Compleat Country Dancing Master. A new edition came out in 1731. "Geud Man of Ballangigh" as noted above was published by Playford and later by Walsh, 1718. "Hunt the squirell" was published by Playford and later again by Walsh in the 1718 volume. Both tunes were reprinted in Oswald Caledonian Pocket Companion, but not with any dance directions. I have neither dance as published earlier.

I talked to two quite experienced Scottish country dancers last Saturday night and they assured me that any title they knew was the title of a dance, and never that of the tune. When I asked them if there was any shorthand way of identifying a dance (like theme or stressed note codes for music) they look at me as if I had just arrived form Mars with too few parts for some of me and too many elsewhere. Titles tell one practically nothing, and we can't identify a dance without the complete instructions.

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Bruce O.
Date: 21 Apr 98 - 07:58 PM

Sorry about that. I spotted some spelling errors and thought I stopped the first before it was sent, but not so.

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: bigj
Date: 21 Apr 98 - 07:59 PM

There were 18 editions of the instructional books 'The Dancing Master' consisting of tunes and dance instructions for country dancing published between 1651 and about 1728 and together they constitute the most importand source of popular instrumental tunes to be found in England during the period. The compiler of the first seven editions was John Playford (1623-1686).

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: bigj
Date: 21 Apr 98 - 08:02 PM

Whoops, sorry Bruce, you beat me by six minutes!

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Harald
Date: 21 Apr 98 - 08:16 PM

I´ve found the notes here, and the dance here

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Bruce O.
Date: 21 Apr 98 - 09:13 PM

That's all Englsih dances so we can forget what Scots might call anything. It looks The English didn't like the 'new Scotch jig' that Playford gave and changed to "Hunt the squirell" (and this tune has the same name in Scotland and England). Most of these changes of dance to tunes are not very old. I have the list of modern dance titles and associated tune titles from RSCDSS but not the English ones of the EFDSS. [When I was in EFDSS, I was only interested in songs and their tunes, and never got the Morris Books or anything on the dances] Many of these dance -tune combinations were worked out by commitees in rather recent times to couple 'good' dances with 'good' tunes. I can only suggest that the dance is the probably the old one, but was probably not danced to the "Squirell" tune before about the middle of the 20th century.

A tune now, Scots "Barley Cakes" is English "Barley Sugar", English "Barley Cakes" is a different tune that I don't know a Scots title for. That's one though that it occurs to me if it is known under a Scots title, I can probably find it.

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Harald
Date: 21 Apr 98 - 09:38 PM

Barley Cakes... sounds good. Are they resembling oat cakes ? By the way, some weeks ago a friend of mine made Atholl Broth. A weird drink out of whiskey and oats.

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Bruce O.
Date: 21 Apr 98 - 11:01 PM

Athole Brose I've seen, but haven't tasted. The vender said it was named from an old Scots tune. I think it's a very late 18th century one, and I might even have a copy of it somewhere. But Athole Broth, I don't know.

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Bruce O.
Date: 21 Apr 98 - 11:04 PM

It was only a few days ago the Michael Robinson noted that the recipe for that excellent beer the the Picts made from heather had been lost. I forgot what they substituted now, but he said it wasn't nearly as good as the old stuff.

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Bruce O.
Date: 21 Apr 98 - 11:18 PM

EFDSS got a few of the '24 Country Dances for the year 17xx' books obtained by a Mr. Apted from a cupboard full of stuff he had bought at a sale for a shilling. In 1966 EFDSS issued 'The Apted Book of Country Dances', 24 total dances from originals of 1765 to 1784. The titles are those of the dances. 13 tunes were dropped and new (old) ones substituted.

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Harald
Date: 23 Apr 98 - 12:22 PM

Athole Brose

300 g oat flour soaked for some time in about half a pint pure scottish hielan water. The whole squeezed through a towel (use a robust one, otherwise.., well, I had to go looking for a new one next day..). Put the towel-squeezed-oat-water into a bottle, add about half a pint cream, three table-spoons honey (from the Highlands, of course) and 300 ml whiskey (or whisky, depends on which one you prefer).
Shake well before use ! Otherwise it´ll look very strange.
Slainte !

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Bruce O.
Date: 23 Apr 98 - 01:06 PM

An acquaintance of mine long ago married an immigrant Scotwoman. One Christmas her parents sent them a haggis, but all they got was a short notice from U. S. Customs: Destroyed. Unfit for human consumption.

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Harald
Date: 24 Apr 98 - 12:01 PM

I couldn´t even get a piece of buttered bread into the US.
Besides, it was not easy to get a good haggis in Scotland, but what I got at last was great. A good piece of Scottish heritage.

Subject: RE: Geud Man of Ballangigh
From: Carl
Date: 07 May 98 - 03:46 PM

Thank you, Harald. The score you provided was exactly what I was looking for. I haven´t heard the tune for more than ten years now, because it´s on a record I saw the last time when I was much younger, but I recognized it immediately after playing the first notes. I looked around on the site and found another tune, the Black Nag, I played it and recognized it also. I think it must have been on that record, too.