DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam

Subject: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 11:28 AM

This is an edited DTStudy thread, and all messages posted here are subject to editing and deletion.
This thread is intended to serve as a forum for corrections and annotations for the Digital Tradition song named in the title of this thread.

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Search for other DTStudy threads

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MAKING BABIES BY STEAM

You lovers of mirth, I pray pay attention
And listen to what I am going to relate,
Concerning a couple I overheard talking
As I was returning late home from a wake.
As I looked around I espied an old woman
Who sat by a gap all a-minding her cow.
She was jigging a tune called 'Come haste to the wedding'
Or some other ditty I can't recall now,
She was jigging a tune called 'An Buachaill_n Donn'
Or some other ditty I can't tell you now.

Then in looking around I espied a bold tinker
Who only by chance came a passing that way.
The weather being warm he sat down to rest,
"Oh what news, honest man?" the old woman did say.
"Oh, it's no news at all, ma'am," replied the bold tinker,
"But there's one and I wish he never had been,
It's that damnable rogue of a Daniel O'Connell,
He's now making children in Dublin by steam."

"Oh, children, aroo," replied the old woman.
"ainm an diabhal! [by the devil!], is he crazy at last?
Is there sign of a war or a sudden rebellion
Or what is the reason he wants them so fast?"
"Oh, it's not that at all, ma'am," replied the bold tinker,
"But the children of Ireland are getting so small,
It's her majesty's petition to the Lord High Lieutenant
To not let us make them the old way at all."

"By each hair on my head," replied the old woman,
"And that's the great oath of my soul, for to say,
I am an old woman but if I were nigh him,
It's little a word that O'Connell might say.
The people of Ireland, it's very well known,
We gave him our fortunes, though needing them bad,
And now he is well compensating us for it;
He's taking what little diversion we had!"

"I am an old woman that's going on eighty,
Scarcely a hair on my head to be seen,
But if the villain provokes me I'll make better children
Than ever he could produce with his steam!"
"Good luck to you, woman," replied the bold tinker
"Long may you live and have youth on your side.
For if all the young women of Ireland were like you
O'Connell might soon shove his engine one side"

"I think every woman who is in this country
Should be out making babies as fast as she can
So if ever her majesty calls for an army
We'll be able to send her as many as Dan"

[I usually talk the last four words]



The story that I heard was that the song derived from a speech in which
Daniel O'Connell said that the railways, the steam engine would be the making
of the Irish nation.

The song also reminds me of Jonathan Swift's satirical "A Modest Proposal"
that Irish babies be bred as food for the English.

Mick Maloney has been mentioned as a source. Johnny McEvoy also recorded the son
g, I'm fairly certain. I originally got the words from a book of songs collected
in Canada (Helen Creighton's book probably FNS

@Irish
filename[ BABSTEAM
Tune file : HASTEWED

CLICK TO PLAY
FNS
oct99

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MAKING LINKS
The song is in the DT as Making Babies By Steam but I have had difficulties finding it under that title in searches. Just about all the background information you need is at the thread Daniel O'Connell and his Steam Engine but the DT page for the song doesn't link you to that thread.

TUNE
I understand the tune given in the DT is going to be corrected. This song isn't sung to "Haste to the Wedding" but to "Larry O'Gaff".

ATTRIBUTION
I was surprised to see myself quoted in the DT ... the lyrics and quotation come from a message I sent to Ir-Trad L,message Item #53917 (18 Feb 1999 22:17) but the Ir-Trad L website isn't credited.

I wrote the song from memory. I had learned it first from a book of songs of Irish origin collected in Canada, and later heard it from Johnny McAvoy's recording and from session singers - all more or less the same version. I was mistaken in suggesting the book was by Helen Creighton. In fact, related messages at IrTrad-L give the tune and in one message John Moulden corrected me, saying the book was by Edith Fowke. So I would like the mention of Helen Creighton in the DT changed to Edith Fowke. "Traditional Singers and Songs from Ontario", Folklore Associates/Burns & MacEachern (1965),

WORD CORRECTION
I am happy enough with the words as I gave them, I don't feel it is necessary to take it down exactly as Edith Fowke did from her source OJ Abbot. Singers Mick Maloney, Paddy Reilly, Johnny McAvoy sing basically the same version and everyone will have just slightly different words.
Some, apparently leave out the extra line about the song called "An Buachaillín Donn", but I think putting in both lines -"She was jigging a tune called 'Haste to the Wedding' ... a tune called 'An Buachaillín Donn' " gives the song more verve. Unfortunately "Buachaillí" appears as "Buachaill_n" in the DT.

OTHER VERSIONS
There is a different version also in the Daniel O'Connell and his Steam Engine thread. " I Crossed Over a Gap..." was collected in Cavan and published in Ríonach Uí Ógáin. "An Rí Gan Choróin - Dónall Ó Conaill sa Bhéaloideas" (The King Without a Crown - Daniel O'Connell in Folklore). Baile Átha Cliath [Dublin]; An Clóchomhar, 1984.
DISCOGRAPHY
O J Abbot,Irish and British Songs from the Ottawa Valley", Folkways
Len Graham, on his first album - "Wind and Water"
Please do add details of Mick Maloney, Dubliners (Paddy Reilly), Johnny McAvoy albums and any others recordings you know of.

Subject: RE: DT Study: Making Babies By Steam
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 11:36 AM

There is also relevant historic and legendary background, but you will find that all discussed at the Daniel O'Connell & his Steam Engine thread.

Subject: RE: DT Study: Making Babies By Steam
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 01:27 PM

Click here for a bit of information on the tune. I see it's also the tune used for "Poteen" / "The Humours of Whiskey." (Humors)
Philippa, please copy any infomation from other threads that you think pertinent, and post it here. The idea is to have all pertinent information on a song together in one thread.
-Joe Offer-

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As Philippa pointed out, the DT appears to have the wrong tune for "Humors/Humours."

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 21 Jun 02 - 03:08 PM

Most of the information on the other thread IS pertinent and it's all there ALREADY. Can you correct that reference to Helen Creighton in the DT and the missing "í" in Buachaillín, as well as changing the tune?(Felipa 'FNS' is me) In my original message here I tried to do a concise, organised summary of the relevant thread, but you want it all copied here! I'm finding all this extra work frustrating.
Yes, Humours of Whiskey is usually sung to "Larry O'Gaff", but DT has it set to "Father O'Flynn" -- delete this comment about another song once you've fixed it!

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Jun 02 - 01:48 PM

Hi, Philippa - the "O'Connell" thread is 43 messages of unedited data. The DTStudy threads are supposed to be edited summaries of the pertinent information on a given song.
What you posted is a darn good start, but what else would you like to see?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: Wolfgang
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 10:01 AM

Johnny McEvoy sang it on the LP 'For the poor and the gentry'.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 06:33 PM

"Making Babies by Steam"??? I was kind of fond of the old way!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 08:04 PM

This is a good example of how making DTStudy threads can become a complicated job, not to be undertaken lightly.
Including this one there are three threads (or more?) involved that have lyrics related to Daniel O'Connell. For a study thread, they all should appear together, with the pertinent comments.
In addition to links, the thread numbers should be given. Sometimes it is easier to put together data from a search for allied songs and information by using the thread numbers.
Words or phrases that may be typed into DT or DT and Forum Search should be given as well as links. For the song with the title here, -babies by steam- or -making babies by steam- both work.
Thread numbers for the other two involved in a major way here are 4145 with two versions of Daniel O'Connell, and thread 14602 with "Daniel O'Connell and His Steam Engine."
Although all versions should appear in the DTStudy thread, careful reference to the earlier threads should be maintained so that comments not considered pertinent (judgement call by whom?) can be found.
I believe that thread 4145 should have been the basis for this DTStudy thread. The title, "Daniel O'Connoll," is clear, the thread has priority, and all the songs are related. Unfortunately, the songs about O'Connell are not in the DT. "Daniel O'Connell" was posted by Wolfgang in 1998.
Just sign me "Kibitzer" and "Casper Milquetoast" as well because I doubt that I have the nerve to do what Phillipa is trying.

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 08:09 PM

Could Masato be persuaded to set down the original version as presented by Edith Fowke? Which collection?

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 10:42 AM

"Could Masato be persuaded to set down the original version as presented by Edith Fowke? Which collection?" See the first message in this thread. "Edith Fowke. "Traditional Singers and Songs from Ontario", Folklore Associates/Burns & MacEachern (1965)

The DT version will be very similar; I wrote down the lyrics from memory and I first learned the song from Edith Fowke's collection. Edith Fowke collected the song from O J Abbot - see 'discography' in the first message and also the first sentence under in 'word correction': O J Abbot,"Irish and British Songs from the Ottawa Valley", Folkways

DaveO - your message would fit into an ordinary thread, rather than a DT study thread - see the last few lines of verse 4.

I suggest that others who can add useful background information such as Wolfgang has done regarding Johnny McEvoys LP should try to use the headings of the first message. For example:
DISCOGRAPHY: Johnny McEvoy, 'For the poor and the gentry'

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 11:07 AM

HISTORICAL BACKGROUND:
The following is one of the entries on this topic from the 'Daniel O'Connell & His Steam Engine" thread. Mudcatter Barbara made a tape of Paddy Graber, a Canadian (BC) singer of Irish parentage who would now be in his 80s, and he introduced the song thus (as posted by Barbara, 22 Oct 1999):
"It's almost impossible to give an Irish song without giving a history lesson along with it, so I'll start in right now. The song I'm going to sing next is called 'Daniel O'Connell', and it's about a man who's a member of parliament, and he was known as 'the great Liberator', God knows for why, for he had a voting record like Barry Goldwater. Actually he'd lived through the rebellion of 1798 and he'd seen the terrible things that had happened at that particular time to the Irish, and it just broke his heart, he didn't want to see anything like that happen again. When the potato famine -- the Irish call it 'the Great Starvation'; the English call it 'the Potato Famine' -- when it came in 1845, 1846, he thought he would help the Irish people by voting to bring in a law which was known as 'the repeal of the corn law' which in theory would make corn cheaper and the Irish people wouldn't need to die of starvation. But because they couldn't own their own land, they had to rent land and they would grow crops and raise grain and cattle for export and from what little profit they could make from that, they were able to rent a small patch of land to raise potatoes. When the potatoes failed, of course, everybody died. And they were getting less for their grain so they couldn't even afford to rent the ground. [let alone buy corn at any price]. I guess the last temptation is the greatest (t)reason to do the wrong thing thing for the right reason. I guess he thought he was doing the best, but it certainly didn't work out that way. He also invented [founded] the Bank of Ireland, and then of course he needed somewhere to invest the money, and he'd heard that Stephenson's Rocket had run from Manchester to Liverpool just a few years before, so he petitioned the High Lord Leftenant of Ireland, and he said in his petition, "If we only had a steam engine, it would be the making of future generations." Well, the tinkers, the gypsies of Ireland, they heard this and they thought he was trying to make children by steam. This is where this particular song came from."

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 11:13 AM

Regarding the steam engine, I have also read that the occasion on which O'Connell said that the steam engine would be the making of future generations," was a speech when the first steam engine was introduced in Ireland (Dublin - Bray route). Maybe some people did think he meant it literally, but whoever composed this song seems to have had satiric intent.

O'Connell was reputed to have many illegitimate children around the countryside and his reputation in that regard is also said to have given inspiration to the song.

I don't know if everyone reading the Paddy Graber quotation will know that Barry Goldwater was a conservative US politician.

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: Leeder
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 12:09 PM

I have mailed to MMario a photocopy of the music, lyrics and notes from Edith Fowke's book mentioned above (O.J. Abbott's version). Watch for it...

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: MMario
Date: 25 Jun 02 - 12:25 PM

I'll keep my eyeballs peeled to see it in the mail.

Subject: Lyr Add: SOMERSET STEAM ENGINE
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 12:04 PM

I wonder whether this is related to the Somerset Steam Engine, which I have never heard attributed. I have been singing it for about 30 years.

Somerset Steam Engine

Oh, way down in Somerset or so I hear tell,
There lived a young lassie, her name it was Nell,
Oh, high, wide and handsome and just seventeen,
And she longed for a ride on my Thrashin Machine.

'Twas early one evening in the merry month of June,
When most courtin' couples were lookin' at the moon,
I said "Come to the barn, Nell, where us won''t be seen,
And I'll show you the works of my Thrashin' Machine.

All the flywheels and pistons wuz spinnin' around
When out of the cylinder came a strange sound;
I reached down below for to shut off the steam,
But the chaff had been blown from my Thrashin Machine.

'Twas nine months later, on a February morn,
The pride of its nanny, a baby was born;
And under its nappy could plainly be seen
A brand new, twin cylinder, Thrashin Machine.

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 26 Jun 02 - 12:12 PM

well, EBarnacle, that wouldn't have been a train but a threshing machine. Though as you point out, it also used a steam engine. There are lots of songs about courting at the hay-making. (the steam engine really could be the making of future generations) As with Uncle Dave, I think you should have clicked at the link to the discussion thread and added your message there. The DTStudy thread should be kept shorter and include the more concrete background information.

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 11:07 AM

By the bye, the melody is "Betsy from Pike."

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 11:16 AM

Bye the bye, I believe EBarnacle means the tune for the thrashing machine, not for Daniel O'Connell's Steam Engine (making babies by steam). Please try to make your references clear! I copied the first message about the thrashing machine onto the Daniel O'Connell and his Steam Engine thread. I think we are just making messages now for Joe Offer to delete from the DTStudy! Although I don't think the Thrashing Machine is a related song, it is an interesting connection to make as the actual words of the Dan O'Connell song don't say anything about a train. So I did add it to the other thread. Please put the concrete info here at the DTstudy thread and your other speculations and chat about the song at the discussion thread.

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: MMario
Date: 27 Jun 02 - 11:17 AM

bert posted another version of the threshing machine song.

Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: DANIEL O'CONNELL
From: MMario
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 09:49 AM

DANIEL O'CONNELL
as sung by O.J. Abbott 1957
'Traditional Singsers and Songs from Ontario' pp50-51;171
Collected by Edith Fowke
Musical Transcription by Peggy Seeger


Oh, you lovers of mirth, I pray pay attention
and listen to what I am going to relate
concerning a couple I overheard talking
As I was returning late home from a wake.
As I roved along I espied an old woman
Who sat by a gap all a-minding her cow.
She was jigging a tune called 'Come haste to the Wedding,'
Or some other ditty i can't tell you now.
She was jigging a tune called the 'Bouchahil Dhoun,'
Or some other ditty I can't tell you now.

So in looking around I espied a bold tinker
Who only by chance came strolling the same way.
The weather being warm he sat down to rest.
"Ah, what news,honest man?" the old woman did say.
"Then it's no news at all, ma'am," replied the bold tinker,
"But there's one and I wish that he never had been;
It's that damnable rogue of a Daniel O'Connell
He's no making children in Dublin by steam."

"Ah, children, aroo," replied the old woman.
"O hainm an diabhail, is he crazy at last?
Is there sign of a war or a sudden rebellion
Or what is the reason he wants them so fast?"
"Then it's not that at all, ma'am," replied the bold tinker,
"But the children of Ireland are getting so small,
It's O'Connell's petition to the Lord High Lieutenant
To not let us make them the old way at all."

"Oh by this pipe in my mouth" replied the old woman,
"And that's a great oath on my soul for to say,
I only a woman but if I were near him,
I'll bet you my life it is little he'd say.
Sure the people of Ireland, it's very well known,
That they give him their earnings, though needing it bad,
And now he is well crecompensing them for it;
By taking what little diversion they had!"
*I am an old woman that's going on eighty,
And scarcely a tooth in me head head to be seen,
If the villain provokes me I'll make better children
Than ever he could produce with his steam!"

"Oh, long life to you, woman," replied the bold tinker
"And long may you live and have youth on your side.
For if all the young girls in old Ireland were like you
O'Connell might pitch his steam engine one side"

"I think every woman that is in this country
Should begin making babies as fast as they can
So if ever Her Majesty calls for an army
We'll be able to send her as many as Dan"




*the ninth line of verse 4 begins at the upbeat into bar 10


In the notes are included: "O'Conell was the kind of man who inspired legends, and many equally fantastic tales were told about him thorughout the Irish villages. He was also the subject of innumerable broadsides:...no less than three dozen mentioning him in their titles,..."

and "The reference to "Her Majesty" in the last stanza indicates that this ballad must have been composed between 1837 when Queen Victoria came to the British throne and 1847 when O'Conell died - but it is hard to understand why an Irish patriot would have been so anxious to raise men bor a British sovereign."

"Although Mr. Abbott knew no Gaelic, his ear was so good that he reproduced the phrases accurately enough for them to be easily translated some seventy years afdter he had heard the song from Johnny Hopewell in south March."


X:1
T:DANIEL O'CONNELL
Q:1/4=85
I:abc2nwc
M:6/8
L:1/8
K:C
z3(G3/2 A/2) B|c C C E2E|G G G G E G|F F F E G (E/2 D/2)|
C E G A2G|c2c/2 c/2 E D C|C E G G E C|C F F E G E|
D2C/2 C/2 C2G2|G2A3/2 c/2 c2c|e3/2 c/2 c B A G|G d3/2 d/2 d c d|
e c c c2c/2 c/2|d/2 e3/2 d c A G|A c A G/2 E3/2 C|C E F E/2 G3/2 E|
D C3/2 D/2 C2c/2 c/2|d/2 e3/2 d c A G|A c A (G/2 E3/2) C|C E F E/2 G3/2 E|
D C3/2 D/2 C3
w:Oh,_ you lov-ers of mirth, I pray pay at-ten-tionand lis-ten to what I am_
w:going to re-late con-cern-ing a coup-le I ov-er-heard talk-ing As I was re-turn-ing late
w:home from a wake. As I roved a-long I spied an old wo-man Who sat by a gap all a-
w:mind-ing her cow. She was jig-ging a tune called 'Come haste to the Wed-ding,' Or some oth-er dit-ty i w:can't tell you now.She was jig-ging a tune called the 'Bouch-a-hil Dhoun,'_Or some oth-er dit-ty I
w:can't tell you now.

Subject: Tune Add: DANIEL O'CONNELL
From: MMario
Date: 22 Jan 03 - 10:47 AM

X:1
T:Daniel O'Connell (2)
N:from Philippa
I:abc2nwc
M:3/4
L:1/8
K:E
z4B B|e2E2E2|G2F2E2|B2B2B2|G E3EE|
w:Com-ing home from the fa-ir I met an old wo-man With a A2A2A2|G2B2G2|D2G2B2|c4B2|e2E2E2|
w:hump on her back and she blind of an eye,The day be-ing (G2F2)E2|B2B2A2|G E3E2|A2A2A2|G2B2G2|
w:warm_ I sat down be-side her,What news of this Man? the old F2E2E2|E4B B|A2f2f2|(f2e3)f|g2e2e2|
w:wo-man did cry.Sure there's no news at all_re-plied the bold c2B2B2|B2f2f2|f2e2f2|g2e2e2|e4(ef)|
w:trav-ler,Ex-cept that I'm wish-ing he ne-ver had been,con_
g2g2f2|e2B2B2|c2e2c2|B2G2E2|A2A2A2|
w:-cer-ning our he-ro brave Dan-iel O'-Con-nell,Who's now mak-ing
G2B2G2|F2E2E2|E4z2
w:chil-dren in Dub-lin by steam.

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: Felipa
Date: 22 Jan 03 - 06:03 PM

that tune is a different version of the song, not the DT version and properly belongs in the Daniel and his steam engine thread - Clickable Link is in the first message here

otherwise, thanks MMario for all your efforts

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: MMario
Date: 22 Jan 03 - 06:24 PM

would have been better if half my line breaks hadn't gone missing somewhere...*sheepish grin*

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 23 Jan 03 - 10:43 AM

and if you credited Bill Meek as I simply copied the tune from his song book

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: GUEST,George
Date: 28 May 05 - 01:36 AM

You may also find this song under the name of "the Bold Tinker" on a folkways recording "An Irishman in North Americay" by Tom Kines. I am uncertain about the spelling of the album title but remember "America" was different.

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: Felipa
Date: 07 Apr 17 - 06:52 AM

Edith Fowke wrote that "The reference to 'Her Majesty' in the last stanza indicates that this ballad must have been composed between 1837 when Queen Victoria came to the British throne and 1847 when O'Connell died - but it is hard to understand why an Irish patriot would have been so anxious to raise men bor a British sovereign."

It is no puzzle to me, given the satirical nature of the song. Children by Steam has always reminded me of Jonathan Swift's "Modest Proposal" to relieve hunger and poverty by eating Irish children. http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html

Subject: RE: DTStudy: Making Babies By Steam
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 17 - 07:05 AM

I'm quite fond of the Dubliner's version of this, sung by Paddy Reilly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmkBZQM7UBM