slave songs

Subject: Lyr Add: A REFRAIN OF THE RED RIVER PLANTATION^^
From:
Date: 04 May 98 - 10:04 PM

I came across the following three songs in a 1853 slave narrative, Twelve Years a Slave by Solomon Northup. Can anyone tell me anything about them? Particularly, what do they mean? Some words that I don't get: Harper's creek, josey, Hog Eye, Hosey, and yo' (as in "stole my yo'")? Here they are: 1) Harper's creek and roarin' ribber / Thar, my dear, we'll live forebber; / Den we'll go to the Ingin nation, / All I want in dis creation, / Is pretty little wife and big plantation. / Chorus. Up dat oak and down dat ribber, / Two overseers and one little nigger. 2) Who's been here since I've been gone? / Pretty little gal wid a josey on. / Hog Eye! / Old Hog Eye! / And Hosey too! / Never see de like since I was born, / Here come a little gal wid a josey on. / Hog Eye! / Old Hog Eye! / And Hosey too! 3) Ebo Dick and Jurdan's Jo, / Them two niggers stole my yo'. / Chorus. Hop Jim along, / Walk Jim along, / Talk Jim along, &c. / Old black Dan, as black as tar, / He dam glad he was not dar. / Hop Jim along, &c.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Subject: RE: slave songs
From: Bruce O.
Date: 04 May 98 - 11:58 PM

One is Hog Eye man (look in DT). I'll see if I kept any of the answers to 'the big plantation' one that was the subject of a query on another list 2 or 3 onths ago.

Subject: RE: slave songs
From: Barry Finn
Date: 05 May 98 - 01:20 AM

Check out Black-Eyed Susie in the DT, very close to your fist one. Do a forum search for Hog Eye, back a good while ago there was a thread on it. Barry

Subject: RE: slave songs
From: DWDitty
Date: 05 May 98 - 05:28 AM

To me, the ultimate slave song is Bid 'Em In on Oscar Brown, Jr.'s Sin & Soul album.

Subject: RE: slave songs
From: Barry Finn
Date: 05 May 98 - 11:06 AM

A couple threads you may want to check out in the forum searc; ?Songs on ,or about slavery? - Sept 22, 97 & Slave revolts - Feb 28, 98. Barry

Subject: RE: slave songs
From: Allan
Date: 05 May 98 - 04:24 PM

If I understand correctly, you are having difficulty with figuring out the language used in this song. I will attempt to translate as best I can but have a couple of things I don't really understand either. If English is a second language to you, then I would guess that you may have been unable to find creek in your dictionary. It is usually a very small stream or rivulet. Creeks were often named for the person or family whose land they were on. So here you have Harper's Creek.

1) Harper's creek and roaring river / There, my dear, we'll live forever; / Then we'll go to the Indian nation, / All I want in this creation, / Is pretty little wife and big plantation. / Chorus. Up that oak and down that river, / Two overseers and one little nigger. 2) Who's been here since I've been gone? / Pretty little gal with a jersey on. / Hog Eye! / Old Hog Eye! / And Hosey too! / Never see the like since I was born, / Here come a little gal with a jersey on. / Hog Eye! / Old Hog Eye! / And Hosey too! 3) Ebo Dick and Jurdan's Jo, / Them two niggers stole my yo'. / Chorus. Hop Jim along, / Walk Jim along, / Talk Jim along, &c. / Old black Dan, as black as tar, / He's damn glad he was not there. / Hop Jim along, &c.

The "jersey" or "josey" was likely intended to be used as a sort of internal rhyme for the name, or nickname, Hosey. A few other names are thrown in: "Ebo Dick and Jurdan's Jo" as the ones who "stole my yo'". I can't make out the meaning of "yo'" either. I can only guess.

Subject: RE: slave songs
From: Bruce O.
Date: 05 May 98 - 04:44 PM

Well, not much turned up on an earlier query to a different list.

> Looking for an 1830s folksong which has the following lines in it:

> All I want in this creation
> Is a pretty little wife and a big plantation,
> Way down yonder in the Indian Nation.
> I checked Digitrad, and the first two lines appear in a version of
> "Black-Eyed Susie." It looks to me like a floating verse type of thing, but
> does anyone on this list recall seeing the last line anywhere in a song?

Well, yes, and I even have the tune in my head. Meseems the verse was in the form 2d line (dum-dum-da-da-da-da-dum-dum-dum-dum)
refrain line 1 (dum-daaa-dum? dum-dum-dum-dum-daaa)
(repeat pattern)

the abcs might go:
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: G
|d2 d2 dd dd |e2 d2 B2 G2 |
G2 G2 GG GG |A2 G2 E2 C2 |
D2 G4 B2 |d2 d2 e2 d2 | A4 z4 |
(repeat first 2 lines)
D2 G4 B2 |A2 A2 B2 A2 | G4 z4 |]

And yes, I have the same impression, that the verse is probably found used in more songs than one. The form is consistent with variants of 'Salty Dog.' -- Happy hunting. Aloha, Lani

Subject: RE: slave songs
From: Antaine
Date: 05 May 98 - 05:57 PM

What about "stole my ewe" as a possibility? ewe=female sheep There is a song called "The Moving Cloud" sung in Ireland which involves the slave trade. Good song. Best of luck.

Subject: RE: slave songs
From: Martin Ryan.
Date: 05 May 98 - 08:00 PM

DW

Do you know is the "Sin & Soul" album available on CD? It was a great favourite of mine many years ago - until my son banjaxed it on a pirate Radio station about five years ago!

Regards

Subject: Lyr Add: BLACK-EYED SUSIE^^
From: Barry Finn
Date: 05 May 98 - 08:52 PM

All I want in this creation
Pretty little wife on a big plantation

chorus; Oh, my pretty little Black-eyed Susie (2x),br>

Up Onion Creek & down Salt Water
Some old man's going to lose his daughter

All I want to make me happy
Two litttle boys to call me pappy

Black dog, white dog, little black nigger
Good-by, boys going to see the widow

Going back home with a pocketfull o money
Somebody there to call me honey

If I stop & stumble in the water
Some old man's gonna lose his daughter

Who's been here since I been gone
Pretty little girl with a josey on

Up the Oak & down the river
Two overseers & one little nigger

Then we'll go to the Indian Nation
A pretty little wife & a big plantion.

From American Ballads & Folk Songs, J & A Lomax. They didn't say much about the song, only calling it a square dance tune. Barry

Subject: RE: slave songs
From: Ole Bull
Date: 05 May 98 - 10:38 PM

Here's a clue. Some of the words recall the popular Minstrel songs of the 1840's; "Walk Along John," Jim Along Josey" and "Old Dan Tucker."

Subject: RE: slave songs
From: Bruce O.
Date: 05 May 98 - 11:37 PM

I think Ole's on the right track. #3 of the original post looks to me rather more like a medley than a corrupted verse of a song.

Subject: RE: slave songs
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 06 May 98 - 06:33 AM

Referring to Antaine's suggestion, he is quite correct. "Yo" is still the folk pronunciation given to the word "ewe" in many parts of the American South.

Subject: RE: slave songs
From:
Date: 06 May 98 - 11:24 AM

Thanks a million, everyone. You've been a great help. Ole Bull: how can I find the words to the three 1840s minstrel songs you mentioned?

Subject: RE: slave songs
From:
Date: 06 May 98 - 11:29 AM

By the way, in the book Twelve Years a Slave is an actually notated tune to the first of these songs. Unfortunately the words, which are given separately from the tune, don't fit the melody at all. The melody is clearly a fiddle-type melody (square dance?); the author, Solomon Northup, was a fiddler. It may be the tune to Black-Eyed Susie ...? Unfortunately, in the reprint of Twelve Years a Slave by Louisiana State Univ. Press, the tune is left out altogether. You have to go back to the 1853 original to find it.

Subject: RE: slave songs
From: Jon W.
Date: 06 May 98 - 12:33 PM

Old Dan Tucker is in the DT here. The other two I couldn't find.

Subject: RE: slave songs
From: Art Thieme
Date: 06 May 98 - 09:12 PM

"Bid Em In" was written by Oscar Brown Jr. I'm fairly certain. Roy Inman & Ira Rogers did it on an Argo LP also. But it wasn't an actual slave song from that sad era.

For some great insight and songs of those times read __Sinful Tunea And Spirituals--Blak Folk Music To The Civil War__by Dena J. Epstein (University Of Illinois Press). This volume is one of many in the wonderful series Music In American Life. I'm gonna try to give Oscar Brown a call to see if the album is on CD but cannot do that while I'm on line! Bye... Art Thieme

Subject: RE: slave songs
From: Art Thieme
Date: 06 May 98 - 10:00 PM

Sorry! Too many Oscar Brown jrs in Chicago phone book for information to help me.

Subject: RE: slave songs
From: Rockaday Johnny
Date: 08 May 98 - 09:57 AM

A great source for this type of tune is Thomas W. Talley's Negro Folk Rhymes -a new, expanded edition, with music. Edited, with introduction and notes by Charles K. Wolfe U of Tenn Press

Subject: RE: slave songs
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 08 May 98 - 10:39 AM

Art

A recent thread confirmed that the Oscar Brown "Sin and Soul" album was available on CD.
DWDITTY wrote

In answer to Martin Ryan's question, Sin & Soul is available on CD. Try Borders or CD Now at www.cdnow.com.

Regards