new childrens' song?

Subject: new childrens' song?
From: GUEST,Guest: Ed Silberman
Date: 15 Jul 02 - 10:10 PM

I heard a three year old singing a song that was simple enough he might have been making it up. Or it might just be something I never heard before. Has anyone out there ever heard something like this?

(tune: a variant of Twinkle Twinkle) Bow-ee, Bow-ee, Bow-ee Up, Up, Up Bow-ee, Bow-ee, Bow-ee Down, Down, Down Bow-ee, Bow-ee, Bow-ee Up, Up, Up Bow-ee, Bow-ee, Bow-ee Down, Down, Down

Subject: RE: new childrens' song?
From: Kaleea
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 01:40 AM

This is a version by a kid's singer to help kids learn the concept of "up" and "down." The kids move (by bowing down & rising up) up & down to the words in the song. There are about a kazillion other versions, too. Mozart would have been pleased to know that he was so often "quoted."

Subject: RE: new childrens' song?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 16 Jul 02 - 07:04 AM

Wasn't Mozart just riffing on an already well-known children's tune? "Ah vous-dirai je, Maman?"
Anyone know the rest of the French?

Subject: Lyr Add: AH VOUS DIRAIS-JE MAMAN
From:
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 01:29 AM

Two versions -- probably more; tune of "twinkle-twinkle":

Ah vous dirais-je maman
Ce que me fait si pensant?/Ce qui cause mon torment?
Papa veut que je raisonne
Comme une grande personne
Moi je dis que les bonbons
Valent mieux que la raison.

Oh, shall I tell you, Mama,
What makes me so pensive/What's tormenting me?
Papa wants me to reason
Like a big person--
Me, I say candy
Is worth more than reason.

Ah, vous dirai-je maman
Ce qui cause mon tourment?
Depuis que j'ai vu Sylvandre
Me regarder d'un air tendre
Mon coeur dit a chaque instant,
Peut-on viver sans amant?

Shall I tell you, Mama,
What causes me torment?
Since I saw little Sylvander
Looking at me with a tender air
My heart asks each instant
"Can one live without love?"

I know, my French is vile. I do not know which of these versions has the better claim to "tradition" (priority/method of transmission/distribution, an old argument, eh?). For the second, there are extended lyrics -- much too extended and, after the first stanza, too syntactically complex to be credible as a child's song if you're asking me (and no one has). About the tune -- I asked the catters for some help with a "children's mocking tune" a while back and got the most amazingly helpful and expert responses. The thread's around here somewhere.

Adam

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 22-Jul-02.

Subject: RE: new childrens' song?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 05:15 AM

Previous thread Thanks to Adam's consistent use of the same guest name his postings are traceable.
Adam: have you considered "The Benefits of membership" (see top of main page). Among other benefits is the ability to quickly trace your previous threads, and to add "Trace" instructions to any thread which interests you even if you have not posted to it yourself.

Cheers

Nigel

Subject: RE: new childrens' song?
From: CapriUni
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 08:15 AM

Or, could it be that Ah vous dirais-je maman started out as an over-extended over complicated love song (the second version in your post), and kids, the way they always do (thank the gods!), turned it into a spoofy love song dedicated to candy?

BTW, I like the candy version better... ;-)

Subject: RE: new childrens' song?
From: CapriUni
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 09:48 AM

hmmm.... the lyrics of "Bow-ie, Bow-ie" don't quite scan in my head to "Twinkle, Twinkle".... Is the tune slightly different, somehow? And if so, where can I find a midi of this or other sound file?

Subject: RE: new childrens' song?
From: GUEST,Guest ed silberman
Date: 20 Jul 02 - 03:18 PM

CapriUni No, it doesn't scan perfectly. Sing the first "twinkle" three times in quick sucession, cept with the word bow-ee. Skip the the second twinkle altogether. Then sing "up up up" to the "little star" part of the melody. Let me know if that makes sense.

Subject: RE: new childrens' song?
From: GUEST,Guest Ed Silberman
Date: 20 Jul 02 - 04:23 PM

Kaleea - Just re-read your answer to my query where you say "This is a version by a kid's singer to help kids learn the concept of "up" and "down." The kids move (by bowing down & rising up) up & down to the words in the song. There are about a kazillion other versions, too." Could you provide any specifics that might help me track this song down - which kid's singer you're referring, words to some of the other versions you're familiar with. It'd be interesitng to compare some of the other versions you've heard with what my young freind was singing.