 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters
|
|
|
Subject: Are there any Black Mudcaters From: Pied Piper Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:28 AM I've been playing trad music in the UK sessions for 20 years, and in all that time I've only seen one Black person playing. Are we a White middle-class middle-aged Gheto?. Over this side of the pond we have a band called Edward II that fuse Reggae with E-Ceilidh but this is the only currant band I can think of with Black members. What gives? All the best PP |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcaters From: Bill D Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:34 AM I knew a black bluegrass banjo player years ago, and a woman who played bluegrass/folk viola....I suspect that peer pressure keeps most black musicians in certain musical areas...blues seems to be the only 'major' point of cantact in folk realms...(you don't see many Polish polka fans here either,) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcaters From: GUEST Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:34 AM You might care to look at this thread You're asking a reasonable question, but some people here won't see it that way... Bon voyage... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcaters From: greg stephens Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:41 AM Remember the Spinners? But you're right, its unusual.The Boat Band has done a lot of tours with JC Gallow. Perhaps you would expect folk tobe more culturally/racially homogneous, though, give it's origin in longstanding cuktural habits? Notwhite, but white or black or brown or yellow depending what kind of folk isbeing played. EII represents a conscious fusion of two types of folk music so it is a rather special case. I played in a band the other day with an English/Kurdish/Afghan/Liberian/Nigerian/Ghanaian/Kenyan lineup: it's unusual, but not as unusual as all that. And yesterday I was in a session on a boat with three Maoris, one Bosnian, four English, one Welsh and several noisy children who'd got into the percussion bag. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcaters From: Big Mick Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:48 AM oooooooohhhhhh boy I hate to bring this up but here goes................... The predicate for this is all wrong. It assumes that all trad music is the same. Tell Leadbelly that he wasn't playing folk music. How about Odetta? Don't forget that the trad music of the black South African is not the same as the trad music of the Cumberlands, but it is trad music just the same. I am pretty comfortable saying that there are more trad musicians in the world that are not white than there are that are white. And what difference does it make? Folk music is based on the area of its origin and the traditions of those areas. Latin American trad music, Irish trad music, Appalachian trad music, African trad music, all of these are trad music. And it is only natural that the folks that play it would, for the most part, reflect the ethnicity of the people that spawned it. Mick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcaters From: greg stephens Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:51 AM What is unfolky about Polish polkas? I do find it difficult working out what some people mean by folk. Polkas are folk.Blues are folk. Jigs and reels are folk.Shanties are folk. Kurdish sheepherding chants are folk. Aren't they??Aren't they?? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcaters From: Rick Fielding Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:52 AM Of course it's a reasonable question Pied Piper. I think we've had a few folks of colour around Mudcat, but not many. I'd say that the audiences at festivals I've played in Canada and the States are probably 99% caucasian with a tiny smattering of Oriental folks. What's the audience make-up for FOLK festivals in The UK? I've known several folk and bluegrass fanatics of colour from Nova Scotia. Don't think any of them were particularily into current Black Culture music......much more Hank Snow, and Bill Monroe oriented....so I guess PART of it is simply where you wuz raised. Probably peer-pressure has a LOT to do with it as well. If I had been a BARRY MANILOW fan when I was in my twenties, I sure wouldn't have wanted my friends to find out! .....so perhaps the analogy could be taken a step farther. Cheers Rick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcaters From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 16 Jul 02 - 12:06 PM Somehow, I'd be surprised if any Mudcatters are black. I don't know if the guys in my gospel group count, but Joe and Frankie are black, grew up in the south and had living relatives when they were kids who were freed slaves. Derrick is Jamaican and when he's not singing with us, he's in a reggae band. They all love to go to folk festivals, and Joe and Frankie in particular grew up on the Grand Old Opry and love Uncle Dave Macon, the Carter Family and many of the performers white revivalists like us love. We're slowly adding more gospel sung in a more "white" style, and they're happy with it. We do Handful of Songs together, and don't think about whether it's white or black or dalmatian.
If you try to figure out why there are so few blacks in folk music, other than the blues (and don't forget gospel,) stop and think about how all of us got involved with folk music. Very few of us have it as part of our heritage (at least over here in Amurica.) How did we become exposed to it? Burl Ives, The Weavers,The Kingston Trio, and then Dylan and Bayez, the New Lost City Ramblers, Lonnie Donnegan... all white folks. Not that it was all that way... it seems "whiter" now than it was years ago. In the fifties, we had Belefonte and Odetta, and the Tarriers in their brief history were inter-racial. In the folk revival of the sixties, there were all the old blues players, Len Chandler, Leon Bibb, Jackie Washington and several other lesser known black musicians. Even Brock Peters and Lou Gossett tried to pass themselves off as folk singers for awhile.
One thing I'd posit is whether the folk revival was much more liberal and political than the folk music of the past. I know that there have always been protest songs, but in the 60's, folk songs to a great extent became a tool for social change, not necessarily a reflection of every day social life. I remember talking with Peter La Farge once, and he observed wisely that it would be the songwriters who would take over folk music... especially those who wrote protest songs. That was before Dylan really hit big. Maybe that's why I've heard the comment that people don't like folk music because they don't like protest music.
Maybe you could ask another question. How many Mudcatters consider themselves political conservatives, aligned in philosophy with Rush Limbaugh?
Folk music over the centuries grew out of everyday life and reflected the thoughts, feelings, dreams and frustrations of a whole spectrum of people: black and white, racist and liberal. Most of us are in a sense Preservationists.
As for blacks, most of them have no idea what folk music is. Most like it when they hear it, and many say... "Oh, that's what folk music is!... We used to hear that all the time when we were kids." Much as I dislike it, I suppose that black kids are making more folk music these days than white kids. They just call it rap. Not talking blues. Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcaters From: Rick Fielding Date: 16 Jul 02 - 12:39 PM Lou Gossett, Jerry? Good grief, I DO remember a Brock Peters album though. Speaking of actors invading the folkie realm though....I got a HUGE surprise when I heard just how bloody accomplished Alan Arkin was/is on guitar. I mean this guy KNOWS his chords big time! Cheers P.S. Just had breakfast with the Gospel messengers this morning! No...they didn't drop over because of my cooking, but the CD did! Great stuff...Thanks. Rick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcaters From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 16 Jul 02 - 01:24 PM Yep, Lou Gossett. In the early sixties he was appearing on Broadway in Raisin In The Sun. Folk was starting to blossom, and he sang at hootenannies (open mikes for you younger folks) at the Gaslight Cafe. He did "It takes a rock and a gravel, uh, huh! to make a solid road, uh, huh!" He's a lot better actor than a blues and folk singer. :-) Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcaters From: Wesley S Date: 16 Jul 02 - 01:26 PM Rick - I just read in the autobiography by Richie Havens that Lou Gossett was the author of "Handsome Johnny" that Richie sang in the Woodstock movie. Strange but True.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Mr Happy Date: 16 Jul 02 - 03:18 PM don't know about black mc's but the only black uk folkies who come to mind are cliff hall of the spinners & johnny silvo. any more uk's? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Genie Date: 16 Jul 02 - 03:55 PM Well, what's doo-wop if it ain't folk? I don't mean the polished stuff that got recorded in big studios, I mean the spontaneous a capella street corner singing in the big cities in the 1950s and 1960s (some of which got recorded and got big). Same can be true of Gospel, rap, hip-hop and other music genres. Nowadays, most any kind of music gets formally copyrighted and promoted, but the song may have been composed by someone who was, up to that time, an amateur just making up songs for the love of the music. As to Mudcat posters, remember that there are several issues here; |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: John MacKenzie Date: 16 Jul 02 - 04:00 PM Anybody in the UK remember Hope Howard, he used to do wonderful floor spots, in The Prince of Wales FC in Hammersmith, many many moons ago. Went to some where like Nottingham to work on local radio I think. Failte.....Giok |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Little Hawk Date: 16 Jul 02 - 04:12 PM There have been a fair number of great black performers in the folk scene over the years, but not many black people in the folk audience, it seems. Odetta was a major name in folk in the 60's, as has been mentioned. Others who come to mind are Taj Mahal (often seen at folk festivals) and Richie Havens. Are there any black mudcatters? Darned if I know. Does it matter? Do we have to get some? Maybe we should advertise... :-) Rednecks are also rare here, and Republicans are relatively rare also, I believe...but the few who ARE here have no trouble at all speaking up for themselves. Someone is to blame for this unequal representation on the Mudcat, and when we find out who it is we should hound them to their graves for it, I say!!! (*Grin) - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: bbc Date: 16 Jul 02 - 04:34 PM irrelevant & divisive bbc |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Jul 02 - 04:51 PM Speculating about the shade of skin of Mudcatters is a bit irrelevant, since apart from the relatively few who stick pictures in the rogues gallery we're all invisible anyway.
Exchanging ideas about whether there are fewer black people around in the particular folk community where we are, compared with the general population, and if so why, is a more interesting question. I suspect it varies a lot more than people appreciate.
But I agree with those who've pointed out that there area lot of different types of folk music out there, and a lot of it is overwhelmingly "black" one way and another.
Taling of colour, I've been in the sun today and I'm scarlet.
|
|
Subject: Lou Gossett? From: GUEST,Nerd Date: 16 Jul 02 - 05:07 PM Anyone know if Gossett could really play the fiddle, like his character "Fiddler" did in Roots? if that was really him playing, he's a reasonable musician...
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: GUEST Date: 16 Jul 02 - 05:07 PM Joe killed the offensive thread about any MC Jews he should have killed this one too. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 16 Jul 02 - 05:13 PM What's offensive? Nice try, Guest... Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Liz the Squeak Date: 16 Jul 02 - 05:13 PM One of the problems is with trad folk clubs. I've been a member of a club where you didn't get a floor spot unless you'd been born in the village, married a village lass/lad, had your 80th birthday party in the village hall and had only left the village once to get a tractor part from the next village. Luckily, it's only by the grace of God and the invention of the velocipede that the entire membership (75 members, only 5 surnames) didn't have extra digits and a tail! Being an 'incomer' to that sort of set up is bad enough, having the audacity to be different (colour, race, language, creed, wearing platform soled shoes.....) makes it nearly impossible to get in, let alone accepted. Other-race friends (white as well as black) who came with me to the club were pretty happy to not go again, despite their love of the music. Having said that, happily, I've been to more clubs that have been more liberal in their behaviour, and all have benefited from it... it's all 'folk' music - music of the people, by the people, for the people..... it doesn't specify which race, gender, creed or following you should be, just that you love music and love to make music. Besides, it meant I got to hear an amazing Caribbean calypso version of 'Downtown' in Norwich one evening... amazing! LTS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Jul 02 - 05:21 PM There was a new singer in the session at the Half Moon in Stortford up the road from here, and he was black. At the end of the evening Simon the poet asks him where he came from. "Sierra Leone" he says. "No," says Simon, "I meant do you live in Stortford or Harlow?" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Gareth Date: 16 Jul 02 - 05:21 PM Somehow I suspect that Paul Robeson would have enjoyed the Mudcat. Gareth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Bill D Date: 16 Jul 02 - 05:54 PM note...I didn't say Polish Polka players are NOT folk..I just guessed that it is a rather narrow field and that the people in it are NOT likely to care a lot about the wider areas of folk...and I guessed that 'most' blacks would feel the same. We can all name exceptions, but it just works that way mostly...(not many Calypso bands here either!!)...we have members here who are acquainted with MANY areas of music, but those who do ONLY one type seem to spend their time doing it, not coming to a chat/forum to discuss it... I hardly think it's non-PC to debate and discuss and muse about the subject....just not very fruitful... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: GUEST,Mongrel Date: 16 Jul 02 - 06:10 PM Earl Robinson and Josh White, too, I imagine. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Celtic Soul Date: 16 Jul 02 - 07:21 PM The question was not if there were any black folkies...it was "Are there any Black Mudcatters?" Of *course* folk music has black musicians. But, do any of them post *here*? Not as far as I know, but then, I know very little about this place and the people, considering my time here. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Jul 02 - 07:32 PM When you read Pied Piper's opening post this appears to be referring to the wider, and I'd say more interesting, question, rather than to the narrower one about Mudcatters, which threatens to lead into the kind of navel-study we are a bit prone to.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Amos Date: 16 Jul 02 - 07:36 PM The answer, sir, is yes. Perhaps that's all the answer needed? A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: InOBU Date: 16 Jul 02 - 07:56 PM HEY!!! I sent out all those CDs of Sorcha Dorcha... did anyone notice our fiddler????? What gives Sorcha Dorcha fans????????????????????????????????? Larry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Little Hawk Date: 16 Jul 02 - 08:20 PM Well, there ya go. There are some black Mudcatters. There are even some Bill Shatner fans... "The case is clos-ed." (Clouseau) - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Coyote Breath Date: 16 Jul 02 - 09:43 PM As usual McGrath is bang-on! Man, I'd really like to meet you someday. I have been noticing something like PP's Q. I go to buckskinner gatherings and folk fests and motorcycle rallies and many other good ol 'Murican stuff and there are few blacks or Asians or other non-white persons attending. I think it could be because white society as a whole (and it's many smaller groupings) is just that; WHITE. If I were black I think I might feel somewhat intimidated just because of the racial ratio! I think that blacks (especially) are excluded or feel unwanted even though there doesn't seem to be a campaign to do so. I think that we are unwitting racists much of the time and I think that we need to address that. I get a very uncomfortable feeling when I notice the lack of "people of color" present at most of the events I attend. I don't know what to do about it but to think on it and bring it up and hope to see a dialogue develop!?! CB |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Janice in NJ Date: 16 Jul 02 - 10:21 PM Go to the People's Voice Cafe in New York City and over the course of a year you will see and hear folk music from an incredibly diverse array of folks. I do mean diversity of color, but I also mean diversity of age, musical style, national/regional origin, life experience, sexuality, and almost every other factor you can imagine. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: artbrooks Date: 16 Jul 02 - 11:50 PM Always been sort of a medium tan-khaki-beige myself, with the shade changing with the seasons. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: KingBrilliant Date: 17 Jul 02 - 02:47 AM Boka Halat are another UK multi-cultural multi-racial folk group. They blend music from their respective cultures brilliantly. They will be at Towersey this year - and are well worth seeing. There tends to be a much more balanced mix of races at world music type festivals such as Womad - both in performers & audience. Regarding the more trad end of the folk world though, I wonder whether an evening of listening to songs about merrie olde englande and ploughing would hold much interest to someone whose background/ancestry is not rooted in those things. KRis |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 17 Jul 02 - 03:06 AM Visit Hull sometime, we are lots of different colours, shapes and sizes here! (at one of the sessions I regulary attend (The Tap & Spile) there are at least 4 non-white people that regulary take part) one of them is Called Narho, and has first class honours degree in Music and plays fiddle. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 17 Jul 02 - 03:29 AM There's at least one jewish folkie here as well. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: GUEST,Boab Date: 17 Jul 02 - 04:00 AM Johnny Silvo---great fella. Great voice. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 17 Jul 02 - 06:28 AM Black faces aren't unusual among Irish step dancers in London. It's perfectly possible to be Black and Irish (and English as well) all at the same time. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: greg stephens Date: 17 Jul 02 - 06:50 AM From advertising bill,c 1700,London. " In Bartholomew Fair, at the Coach-House on the pav'd stones at Hosier-Lane, you will see a Black that dances the Cheshire Rounds to the admiration of all spectators" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: GUEST,John Hernandez Date: 17 Jul 02 - 07:53 AM Is this thread about whether there are any black people on Mudcat? If so, I believe Amos answered the question! Or is it about black people in what is perceived as the mostly white folk scene of North America and the British/Celtic Isles? If it is about the latter, then let me report that there are quite a few black folkies here in the good old USA. Let me name just a few that I have actually seen and heard in person over the past five years: Sweet Honey in the Rock, Luci Murphy, Matt Jones, Toshi Reagon, Eric Bibb, Josh White, Jr., Kim and Reggie Harris, Sparky Rucker, Jack Landron (formerly known as Jackie Washington), Randy Harris, Odetta, Len Chandler, and -- he came out of "folk retirement" for one concert in 1997 -- Julius Lester. This list doesn't include the many lesser known people I have seen at clubs, coffee houses, and less formal venues. Nor does it include the individual black members of mixed race groups such as the Singing Conquerors. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: harvey andrews Date: 17 Jul 02 - 09:14 AM An interesting thread. Seems to me there are a huge number of wonderful black performers to be seen particularly at festivals over here in the UK. I grew up on black music and sat at the feet of wonderful black artists. However, they are not in the folk 'audience' in general. The multi-cultural aspect seems to be going only one way and I think that's a shame. I keep hoping I'll see a black face out there taking an interest in our culture but in all the gigs and concerts I did last year I saw only three, and there are only two black or Asian people on my mailing list which is a few thousand strong.When the musical play I did the songs for sold out the B.Ham Hippodrome for a week the black and Asian citizens of Brum were absent, even though the play was about their city in the 50's. How can we encourage them to take an interest in our culture is the question we should be asking. I remember in the early 60's going with my wife to see a Ravi Shankar concert in Birmingham and we found ourselves the only two whites in a sea of Sikh turbans. We were made welcome and had a fantastic musical experience. Now i reckon the audience would be a really eclectic mix of races, but not in the folk clubs, arts centres or village halls that I play in.As i said, I think it's a shame. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: pattyClink Date: 17 Jul 02 - 09:44 AM Dear coyote and harvey and etc. who think blacks feel excluded. Get a clue. Tons of people, white, black and other, detest anglo-celtic-trad because it AIN'T GOT NO SWING. There's no beat. It bores 'em. They don't want to be included in your all-inclusive world view, they think yer music's square and puny and silly. There's a reason rock'n'roll took over the world, it's got more soul and bite than what came before. I'm not agreeing with this view, I just see it every day and was kind of amazed it wasn't mentioned in the thread. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 17 Jul 02 - 10:05 AM In today's music industry all kinds of folk music are excluded and insulted, and most people buy into that for on reason or another. And they believe nonsense generalisations such as "It ain't got no swing" or "There's no beat."
The question is whether, and if so, why (at least in certain places - this is a much bigger world than some people seem to recognise), the minority who decline to do that is less likely to include ethnic minorities other than white ethnic minorities.
I'd suspect that where this is so - and it undoubtedly true in a lot of places - this has as much to do with things like class and whether people live in cities or outside them as anything.
Another thing is that, where there is a strong folk culture, it tends sometimes to go along merrily on its own without getting involved with other struggling traditions and revivals.
I remember back in the late 50s a time when the folk revival in England and the Irish music scene went along largely in ignorance of each others existance. (And there is still only limited contact between the two.) The same is true today, for example, of a lot of Asian music in England, which is bubbling along in a very healthy way.
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: greg stephens Date: 17 Jul 02 - 10:07 AM pattyClink: I think you're being a bit simplistic if you just say black people dont like white traditional music. If that was the case, it wouldnt be true that some of the best places to collect old English songs are the backwoods villages of Jamaica, the Bahamas etc etc. I've just been listening to extraordinary tapes of fiddlers in the Caribbean, recording in the last year. That music has been treasured there for years...would succeeding generations have bothered if they thought it was crap? Nobody was paying them to. It is doubtless true that British folk-clubs are not full of young black kids. But that is a different question with different answers. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 17 Jul 02 - 01:02 PM An anecdote:
Several years ago, my gospel quartet was booked to play at a free outdoor folk festival. The festival is held in a large, beautiful park and there are many people picnicking there or just enjoying the grounds on a regular basis... music or not. I noticed that there were several black families having picnics with earshot of the main stage, but none were coming over. When we got up on stage and we slammed into our first song, several of the black folks stopped what they were doing, folded up their lawn chairs and came over to hear us. I'd love to say that they stayed afterward to listen to the people who followed us, but they didn't. They folded up their lawn chairs and went back to their picnic areas. Did they come over because they heard the rhythm of the electric guitar and felt the energy? Did they come over because they recognized the music and could relate to it? Did they come over because we're such handsome looking rogues? I have no idea (I think it wasn't the last of the explanations, unfortunately.)
When you hear cars coming down the street these days, the fenders are rattling with the Megbass turned all the way up. Many people don't listen to music, they vibrate to it. Certainly in popular music, the beat has almost overwhelmed the melody and the words. Most folk music doesn't have a strong back beat. You'll never make the fenders of your car rattle listening to traditional folk music. Popular tastes change all the time in music. I keep waiting for melody to make a comeback. Until then, most people aren't going to listen to music that doesn't have a strong bass line. At least that's the way it seems to me. (I'm more of a treble-maker, myself.) Hi, Art! :-) Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: harvey andrews Date: 17 Jul 02 - 01:56 PM Jerry I agree that we're now living in the age of percussion. I think we've lived through the golden age of song. Great, wasn't it? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 17 Jul 02 - 02:12 PM Won't be long, and there'll be a generation of kids who think that thump thump stuff is dead boring. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Little Hawk Date: 17 Jul 02 - 03:42 PM Exactly, McGrath... If I may answer pattyClink, the fact that most of the massively popular mainstream rock and pop music of my youth had NOTHING BUT SWING...no intelligence, no coherent understanding of anything on an adult level, no sense of history, no depth, no complexity, no subtlety, no serious comment on anything...that was precisely what attracted me to folk music, which had ALL of the above! And sometimes it also DOES have swing. The huge corporations and greedy managers who market rock and pop music are concerned for nothing but sales. Thus they make sure that all the music they produce all has a "beat" (usually enough of one to stun an elephant) and sounds predictably the same as everything that has gone before it...while saying absolutely nothing. God forbid that their audiences should take time to actually think about their empty lives while doing their partying and buying "product". Folk music, however, is written and/or performed for its own sake, and is about every aspect of life, whether or not it has "swing". That is what makes it worth listening to, and that is what has made it endure. - LH |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Murray MacLeod Date: 17 Jul 02 - 04:07 PM LH, I agree that pattyClink's contribution was a tad simplistic, but one of the things which distinguishes the truly accomplished performer from the run-of-the-mill is the ability to generate a "pulse" ( I don't like to call it "beat" or "swing") into anything they perform, whether it be a comedy song, or the most technically demanding traditional ballad. Murray
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie Date: 17 Jul 02 - 04:29 PM Coyote, I am seeing more people of color at the living history events I attend, especially at Civil War events. Two very good friends of mine are Civil War reenactors and they have a wonderful collection of black historical memorabilia that they frequently put on display for the public. Many people are unaware that there were lots of Free People of Color in the US in the 19th century, who made a living, owned businesses and - gasp! - even owned slaves themselves. I think there are people who reenact as Confederate Cherokees, although they aren't in my part of the country. (now before anyone laughs at that, yes, there were Confederate Cherokee troops. Stand Watie was the last General to surrender.) There are a few more people of color showing up at Rev War events, too, which is a good thing. The Contintental Army took just about everyone willing to come along. I suspect the reason you don't see many at buckskinning events is that most of the trappers in the Fur Trade era were white. That's just a guess, though. Shaker Village at Pleasant Hill in KY is fortunate to have on their staff a fabulous lady named Donna, who is Black, and a marvelous singer. She is one of the reasons Mister and I keep getting invited back to play there. As far as Mudcat goes... well, you can be purple for all I care, because I don't. So there. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: GUEST,Foe Date: 18 Jul 02 - 09:06 AM RE: reenactors. For what it's worth, Crispus Attucks, was one of those killed at the Boston Massacre, March 5, 1770 and Prince Estabrook was wounded on the Lexington green (the shot heard round the world) on April 19, 1775. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Pied Piper Date: 18 Jul 02 - 09:12 AM Thanks for your thoughts folks. Interesting to learn that the Cheshire rounds was bieng danced by black people in the 18c Greg; 3/2 hornpipes are a bit of an obsession with me at the moment I've played in bands with African Afro-Carribian and Asian musicians, mostly on traditional instruments and we never had a problem combining Europian folk stuff and a back line. The E-Ceilidh "movement" is adding back swing appropriate to trad dance tunes and reaching a wider audience as a result. All the best PP. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: GUEST,wilco48 Date: 18 Jul 02 - 10:15 AM Traditional music or "folk music" comes from everywhere, from every country, every ethnic or religious group, etc. Celtic Polkas, Delta blues, bluegrass, sacred harp, klezmer, southern gospel, "country," etc. are all types of folk music that I hear performed here in Tennessee. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie Date: 18 Jul 02 - 10:22 AM wilco48, where the heck are you, because I'm in "Music City" and there ain't hardly squat here, unless you're including people's living rooms in the equation. :-) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: GUEST,John Hernandez Date: 18 Jul 02 - 02:20 PM I've heard more good music in people's living rooms than you can imagine, including what was one of Pete Seeger's best performances of the last several years. It was in the living room of Cy Adler in New York City in 2000, and the price of admission was a $25 donation to the Sloop Clearwater. Over the years, the people I have heard in living rooms at house concerts, musical parties, receptions, sing-arounds, jam sessions, etc., includes several that I listed above. In times past it has included Jimmy Collier and Rev. Frederick Douglass Kirkpatrick. I wouldn't scoff at people's living rooms. If you're in Tennessee, that's where you might just get to hear Sparky and Rhonda Rucker. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Kaleea Date: 19 Jul 02 - 12:26 AM A great many Bodhran players may believe that there is "a beat" going on in the music of the average Ceoli Band --definatly in the Ceoli band I play in! As for "swing," I have heard some mighty fine swingin' goin' on with many old time mountain music instrumentalists. I have also heard Patsy Cline, Hank Williams, Huddie Ledbetter, Bill Monroe, folk singers fom Japan, Germany, ---& come to think of it, Africa too--& many, many performers of various genres sing the "blues" & play "swing" (and there was a beat, too!)not just Billie Holiday! I happen to know that one 'catter who is a Canadian, (and a lurker here) & lover of Celtic music is usually considered "black" by the casual onlooker. When she felt a tremendous affinity with the Irish music I listened to much of the time when she worked with me out here in the midwest, I told her that she must have some "Celtic" blood burning in her genes. Turns out she is Welsh/Scot/Mexican/person with very dark skin. I think that for many people, the difference between so called regular people & people who love "folk music" is that we lovers of folk music are lovers of acoustic music. It goes beyond the music of the indigenous people of a given geographic region. Most people would not know a musical instrument if they tripped over it. Music is more than the sound made by an appliance in a car/boom box/noisemaker. An elderly ballerina I know said to me once (about 20 years back!), "The awful noise which passes for music these days is not art, and it lacks creativity. It is as if the creatures do not know their art, and instead attempt to make a sound which brings about only anger, fear and rage. This is not art, this is an attempt to control the thoughts of others through hypnotic means." Interesting opinion, huh? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: Joe in the'pool Date: 19 Jul 02 - 09:11 AM Hiya all, A Black mudcatter here! born and bred in Liverpool and a lover of maany types of music, if it moves me either musically or lyrically then I like it. There are many Black musicians in this fair city who are also into 'folk' or any other name you care to use. I agree with a previous post about how, Blues, Rap, etc. is also akin to folk due to it's generic nature. It may (or may not) be of interest to those of you who are pondering this question of who listens to what for me to give a present list of my popular favourite stuff.. Woody Guthrie - Alex Glasgow - Leadbelly - Pentangle - Duffy Power - Paul Robeson - Robert Johnson - Bob Dylan - Robert Lucas - Jimmy Rodgers - Mike Badger - Steve Roberts - Nick Drake - etc. etc. I was never really into Soul etc. as my elders were, so I was,nt, simple really. Take care and NEVER be concerned about discussing issues such as these, its all healthy O.K. Peace and Love Joe. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Are there any Black Mudcatters From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie Date: 19 Jul 02 - 01:59 PM I wasn't scoffing at living rooms, and did not make any comment that would indicate such. I play plenty of them and enjoy it. But they're not open to the public, usually. The house concert hasn't caught on here in Nashville. What is open to the public, is 95% crap, geared toward country music tourists. Folk artists rarely come here, the only Celtic artists that ever come are the Chieftains and that's only about every three years. Dougie McLean was supposed to come here YEARS ago, and the show was cancelled. He hasn't been back since. For Nashville to be a diverse city, it just isn't reflected in the local (public) music offerings. We do have a really hot mariachi band that plays the Mexican restaurant circuit, though. But that's about it. |