BS: An evolution of Folk Music?

Subject: An evolution of Folk Music?
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 07:07 PM

Now keep in mind that every one has a different opinion of what folk music is. I have a question. If we label it Traditional music or folk (or what ever) The songs that seem to stand the test of definition best are those that have a true history of being passed on orally such as children's skipping rhymes, call and respense songs and parodies. Has anyone catalogued the parodies of commercial jingles that seem to float about? And what are your opinions about classifying them as folk music? For example: "Comet, it tastes like gasoline!/Comet it makes your tongue turn green!/ Comet, it makes you vomit!/ So get some Comet and vomit today!" WE sang that as children. Just in case our catters from around the globe are not familiar with Comet is the trade name for the most popular chlorine based scouring powder in the United States. I look forward to having a great discussion on this topic and hey, it is a music thread! kindest regards, Neil (AKA Irish Sergeant who came up with this without being sobriety challenged!)(This Time Mwahahah!)

Subject: RE: BS: An evolution of Folk Music?
From: Ed.
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 07:37 PM

Irish Sergeant,

I'd agree that children's rhymes are amongst the best examples of the oral tradition still in existance. (apart from jokes, maybe)

Lots of people have catalogued these.

Not sure what you mean regarding your 'Comet' commercial. Is it something that was chanted years ago, and is still today?

As a general rule, I wouldn't think that parodies of commercials can become 'traditional' because the 'joke' is likely to be tranisitory and soon forgotten.

Ed

Subject: RE: BS: An evolution of Folk Music?
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 07:46 PM

IS you're right they are a very pure form of folk,surely. nobody knows who wrote them, they are recognised as common property, and orally transmitted. Those should be good criteria. Ed is probably right, they do miss out by passing quickly I suppose. I've forgotten loads, we used to know parodies of ads but they seem to have flown from my old brain. I can remember one playground pop song parody:
The Yellow Rose of Texas
The man from Laramie
They went to Davy Crockett's
To have a cup of tea
The tea was so delicious
They had another cup
And left poor Davy Crockett
To do the washing up

Subject: RE: BS: An evolution of Folk Music?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 08:25 PM

As has been said, such things tend to be too ephemeral to last more than a very short time, and so can hardly be considered to be in themselves traditional, though the process that forms them certainly is. How many people now, I wonder, remember the slogan

You'll wonder where the yellow went
When you brush your teeth with Pepsodent

Which, in the mid 1960s, became (where I was living)

You'll wonder where your teeth have gone
When you brush your teeth with an atom bomb.

Long gone and forgotten, I daresay.

Iona and Peter Opie (The Lore and Language of Schoolchildren, Oxford University Press, 1959) examined children's parodies of advertising jingles and the like in some detail. It's still the standard work on the subject.

Subject: RE: BS: An evolution of Folk Music?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 08:34 PM

And unlike so many standard and essential books it's actually still in print!

Subject: RE: BS: An evolution of Folk Music?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 10:47 AM

If you include "anything that has been through the folk process"--i.e. anything that has been anonymously altered from the original and taken up by others, then your spoof jingles qualify; so do soccer chants, traditional songs/tunes, children's songs and so on. We can avoid unpleasantness by recognising "contemporary" songs/tunes as being by known writers/composers. A contemporary song can get folk-processed too, copyright considerations notwithstanding (you could get sued--eek!)

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: An evolution of Folk Music?
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 10:53 AM

Hasn't Michael Cooney done a study of children's songs? I seem to remember him doing a number of these songs at the Philly Folk Fest.

Subject: RE: BS: An evolution of Folk Music?
From: MMario
Date: 18 Jul 02 - 10:59 AM

I've heard the "pepsodent" jingleparody recently (from teenagers)- with 'atom bomb' replaced with 'agent orange'

the 'Comet' jingle/parody is alive and well in upstate NY at least.

Subject: RE: BS: An evolution of Folk Music?
From: Kaleea
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 12:29 AM

"Traditional Music" is usually considered by musicologists to be music which is passed down from generation to generation. Folk Music is considered to be the specific genre(s) of music of the indigenous people of a given geographic region.

Subject: RE: BS: An evolution of Folk Music?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 03:41 AM

I can remember the "Yellow rose of Texas" parody, from the late 50s in the West Midlands. Presumably someone actually wrote the thing--but how did it become so widespread? Was it, maybe, on tv or radio; or did it just get around by word of mouth?

Subject: RE: BS: An evolution of Folk Music?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 05:31 AM

The "Yellow rose of Texas" parody is as I remember it being used in S.Wales, late 50s early 60s.
The local "Pepsodent" one was
"You'll wonder where the yellow went
When you brush your teeth with red cement"

As for the initial "Comet" one, that did not reach us, but can we safely assume it was to the tune of Colonel Bogey?

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: An evolution of Folk Music?
From: ozmacca
Date: 19 Jul 02 - 06:11 AM

I rather like the definitions as stated by Kaleea earlier, which indicate that "Traditional" music is passed down, and "Folk" is passed around. What I want to know is why the other directions get ignored. Why don't more young people pass up most of the inane racket to which we're subjected? Or is all that THUMP THUMP THUMP and repetitive insulting doggerel going to be this generation's gift to the cultural heritage of tomorrow's children?

Mind, I suppose people were saying the same sort of thing about "Summer is Icumen-In".......

Subject: RE: BS: An evolution of Folk Music?
From: Kaleea
Date: 20 Jul 02 - 03:25 AM

I checked with some youngsters (grade school & middle school) and they assured me that the "Comet" song is still popular with the kids! I seem to recall the tune as being the theme song from the movie, "Bridge on the River Kwai" which the men whistled--anybody else?

Subject: RE: BS: An evolution of Folk Music?
From: Gareth
Date: 20 Jul 02 - 08:27 AM

The "Yellow rose of Texas" parody is as I remember it being used in S.Wales, late 50s early 60s.

And in deepest Kent in the late 50's - quite a geographical spread.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: An evolution of Folk Music?
From: greg stephens
Date: 20 Jul 02 - 10:16 AM

I was in Devon for the Yellow Rose of Texas.If it was that widespread it rather suggests radio or TV as the means of passing it around . Quite possible as it not rude. But I dont remember ever hearing it broadcast.

Subject: RE: BS: An evolution of Folk Music?
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Jul 02 - 03:42 PM

From the mists of antiquity: this was fairly popular with older pre-adolescent boys during World War II. Sung to the tune of Colonel Bogey's March:—

Hitler has only got one ball,
Goering has two, but they are very small.
Himmler is somewhat sim'lar,
And Goebbels has no balls at all.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: An evolution of Folk Music?
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 20 Jul 02 - 08:06 PM

Kaleea:The Comet parody is indeed sung to the tune of Colonel Bogey's March and I remember the commercial it spang from but not the bloody words. I do like your explaiination of the difference between Traditional and Folk music by the way. Thanks everyone for the great information! MMArio: Do you remember the parody for the Byrne milk Jingle? "Byrne milk is mighty fine/ Makes you look like Frankenstein./If you drink it you will find,/ That it tastes like iodine." HAve a splandid weekend all. Kindest regards, Neil