BS: I am an alchoholic

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: Francy
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 01:15 PM

Sorry it took me so long to reply... I have been clean and sober for over 19 years.....I didn't accomplish this on my own.....I am, indeed a friend of Bill W. And AA is definitely the foundation of my sobriety.....Frank of Toledo

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: Grab
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 01:58 PM

Half the problem is availability, since every supermarket has an aisle full of the stuff.

A neat tip if you're in Britain. Stick to late-night shopping in the supermarkets. They can't sell booze after 10pm IIRC, so that stops you dead. This of course assumes you aren't so deeply bitten that you'll just be going to the off-license instead. If it's a problem of drink always being available, making it hard to buy it (requiring a special trip to get it) will at least start to break the habit of always having it around.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 02:02 PM

There is alcoholism in my family; one family member has already died of it, and I'm sure drink was a conributing factor in another. Another one gave up altogther for a while.

I like a drink - I haven't been put off it by what I've seen - but I hope I'd never get to the state that other members of my family have. It's a painful thing to see people you love ruin their life through something so socially acceptable and so readily available as drink. There are scenes I've witnessed that have disturbed me and pained me, and situations that sadden me through their sheer alcohol-induced, pathetic stupidity.

I'm lucky; I don't think I've inherited the tendency. Whether it's genetic or environmental, I do think it can run in families, and I've seen it happen in mine.

Good luck, guest, and I hope you come through this, because the pain of those around you is not because they are suffering from your drinking, but because you are suffering, and that's the hardest thing to bear.

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: Bernard
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 02:04 PM

I'm not an alcoholic, and never have been. But I am a Manic Depressive, and there are some similarities.

Basically, as everyone else is saying, GET HELP!!

It would be sad if you pushed your best friend too far and ended up losing her... I did... Too late now...

You can't beat it on your own - in my case, I can't beat it so I have to live with it.

Good, 'safe' friends are all important. Non-judgmental people who accept you as you are, and help if they can.

The people who couldn't help me were those who 'took the hump' if I (apparently) ignored their 'advice'.

The words I really hate are:
'You've got to help yourself' - well, you can't, can you?!.
'Do it for yourself, not anyone else' - don't particularly want to, thanks very much...

Hope someone gets to you before it's too late, chum.

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 02:39 PM

Experience? I'm not an alcoholic but I have talked to lots of people who are. I learned a lot when I was a volunteer counselor at a nonprofit mental health organization. I feel I have a lot in common with alcoholics because of other kinds of problems (mainly depression) I've faced in my life. Here's my perspective.

Learn to ask for help from people who have been there, done that. That's what AA is for. Shame is a big obstacle; it stops you from getting help. The feeling "I can do this myself" or "I ought to do this myself" is wishful thinking that gets its power from shame. If you can put aside shame long enough to get some help, you will be better off for it.

Even if you ask, you might not get the kind of help you need right away. You might need to keep asking.

You might not understand AA jargon at first, but it will make more and more sense to you the further along you get in your recovery. Have patience with other people's inability to explain everything all at once. They will need to have patience with you, too.

There may be other programs that work as well as AA, but I'm not familiar with them. I know AA has worked for a lot of people.

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: chip a
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 02:56 PM

Hi Guest,

Not an alchoholic but I shot heroin for years and I know where you are. I've been clean for a long time now. Listen, buddy, I took a girlfriend to A.A. and I'm with these other guys. Go! Take your girlfriend or a buddy or go by yourself, but go. I used to say it's like falling in a deep hole and breaking both legs. I see where I am and I wish I was out of the hole but I CAN'T climb out with two broken legs! Anybody tells you to "get hold of yourself" or anything like that, you just tell them to take a flying shit for themselves. Go to A.A. Those guys have ways of getting a rope around you and pulling you up. And they really do care about you. If you've been to a meeting(s) and got a bad dose, go to another one. STOP DRINKING FOR THIS HOUR! Throw it away and get it out of the house. If that makes you panic and you respond to all panic with a drink, then keep the damn stuff in the house for now. BUT DON'T DRINK IT! And I don't care how much of a drunk you are, there's people that love you. Go to A.A. You don't have to make a committment, just go.

Chip

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: GUEST,Roger in Baltimore (posting from the library
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 03:21 PM

Dear Guest,

I don't get on the Mudcat often, so I'll consider it fortuitous that I found your posting. Trust me, I know quite a bit about alcoholism.

If you decide you want to stop drinking, there are many ways to do it. There is no one way and steer clear of those who say there is only one way. Most people who stop drinking, do so on their own, without AA and without treatment. If you've tried that several times before, without success, then you probably should try something else.

Some people use AA only. Some people use treatment only. I would suggest that a combination of treatment and AA maxmizes your chances of success. If you aren't successful the first time, try again. The more often you try, the greater your chances of success become.

Sometimes the hardest part is deciding that drinking is a problem for you. If you don't think you have a problem, you aren't likely to do the hard work to stop. Personally, I trust my doctor and the literature I've read that my high blood pressure (which I don't feel) is a problem, so I take my medicine daily.

You might consider taking pencil to paper and drawing four quadrants on the paper. In the first quadrant, put all the good things that come from your drinking. Some of these have been posted above by others. Believe me, if there weren't some good things, you probably wouldn't be drinking at all. In the second, write down all the reasons you are less happy about your drinking. In the third quadrant, put in all the bad things you think will happen if you stop drinking And finally, in the fourth quadrant, put in all the good things you think could happen if you stopped drinking. If you do this honestly, it will give you some idea of what keeps you drinking and what keeps you avoiding stopping.

There are many places to look for additional reasons to stop. You can go to your physician and tell him or her that you are concerned about your drinking. Ask him or her to assess what impact drinking is having on your health. A good physician can review your medical history and take some blood tests and give you some concrete information about alcohol's effect on YOU.

Ask some close friends whom you trust what impact they think drinking has on your life. Listen to those pros and cons.

In the US there are many free or cheap treatment services available and you can ask them for an assessment. Unfortunately, they may be biased, so ask them for a written report with their justifications.

If you join the Mudcat, you can the send Personal Messages (similar to e-mail) to others. Feel free to PM me with any questions you may have. You can also PM many of those who posted above.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 04:03 PM

Congratulations. You have made a major step. Now get help.

First, though, thank your friend. She seems to have made it clear she wants you around and wants you to get help. Next, don't quit drinking--stop drinking.

One of the things I learned when I was working with addicts is the concept of 'locus of control.' If you can learn to decide for yourself that "I choose not to do this thing which will harm me right now," you will be well on your way to getting better. Every drink is a choice and, unfortunately, the more you take, the easier it is to drink too much.

As has been mentioned, for many people, one drink is too many. If you are one of those, you should also see an allergist as you may have sensitivities you are not aware of.

Even with all of these considerations, you should get help. It is easier to change any behavior with help than it is to struggle alone.

As Spider Robinson's Callahan puts it: "Pain shared is lessened. Joy shared is multiplied."

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 05:11 PM

Thanks everyone,

i'm still reading and thinking

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 05:34 PM

I hear you Larry.

Bernard, the one major difference between manic depression and alcoholism is that there are now some very effective treatments around for MD - at least, treatments that are very effective for many. (But like the man said, you've got to keep taking the tablets!)

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 05:42 PM

There are treatments like that around for alcoholism, antabuse, but again, you have to keep taking them. The way they work is remaining 'inert' until an alcoholic drink hits them and then, boy do you get sick! The same sort of medicine is in some ulcer medicine. One glass of wine that ordinarily wouldn't affect a fly, on top of the antabuse medication will give you the mother, father and omplete family tree of angovers and you really WILL want to die. After that the reckoning is that you won't want to feel that bad again. Sooner or later you get out of the habit of drinking.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 06:46 PM

Antabuse medication - has serious problems associated with it.

It uses a pancreus stimulent (used in the treatment of typeII diabetis) diabanese to create it violent reaction to alcohol.

It is a case where the treatment may be worse than the disease.

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 08:17 AM

We're all alcoholics...some of us just haven't drunk enough booze yet.

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: kendall
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 08:26 AM

When you say "None of that AA crap" that indicates to me that you don't really want to quit enough to work at it, and, as long as you insist on keeping some source of help out of the picture, you will not quit.

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: harpgirl
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 10:59 AM

I agree with Kendall.

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: SharonA
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 11:24 AM

I interpreted the "None of that AA crap" phrase quite differently. When I finally decided to quit my heavy-drinking/falling-down/blacking-out habit, I felt exactly the same way: I wanted nothing to do with AA. I just stopped cold turkey after the boyfriend I had at the time, a chronic drinker, bruised me during physical violence for the first and last time. But I knew for several years before that episode that I had a problem and that I "should" quit, as I tried modifying my drinking habit in several different ways that turned out to be cop-outs. I was fooling myself into thinking that drinking less on any given day meant that I had less of a problem.

So bravo to you, GUEST "alchoholic", for realizing that, indeed, the absolute key is to quit drinking for good and all. Whoever can help you keep your resolve to quit, be it AA or another organization or nothing more organized than a network of supportive friends such as I had, seek them out and let them help you. I think that's the hardest part: letting someone else help you!

Here's a thought: take that wine bottle you mentioned, pour the wine down the drain, rinse and dry the bottle, and then fill it with rolled-up pieces of paper on which you've written various activities you can do on the spur of the moment. When you feel an urge to go for a bottle of booze, go to that bottle instead and "pour" out one of those papers, then go and do whatever it says! (I know; the hard part is pouring the wine down the drain, but it's a small waste compared to what you'd be wasting by drinking it!)

All the best to you. I'll be keeping you in my thoughts.

Sharon

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: chip a
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 11:43 AM

Hey,

It's another day. How you doin'? People care about you.......really! I just want you to know I'm sitting in Georgia thinking about you RIGHT NOW. Now here's some homework for you. Go into the bathroom, look in the mirror and smile at yourself. keep doing it. You're a valuable person. Sit down and WRITE a list of things you like about yourself. Don't just think it, write it and keep the list with you. Nobody else has to see it.

And don't curse yourself if you drop the ball. Just pick it back up and move ahead.

Chip

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: SharonA
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 11:44 AM

Hmmm... the 3rd paragraph disappeared from my last post. I'll try to recreate it:

One of the best pieces of advice I received from a supportive friend (also an ex-drinker) when I was quitting is this: Find something in your life that you're passionate about and fill your life with it (for me, it was music!). Leave no room in your daily schedule for the boredom and dissatisfaction that leads to that first drink. Schedule your time and make plans to attend many enjoyable activities that don't involve drinking as part of the social interaction, so you are always in the mindset of being "on your way somewhere." For instance, instead of planning to share that bottle of wine with your lady friend, plan to share a special dinner or a special concert or a special evening of wild passion!

...That's where the activities-in-the-bottle suggestion came in!

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: chip a
Date: 22 Aug 02 - 12:13 PM

Are you out there? How you doing?

Chip

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: GUEST,Dean Martin
Date: 22 Aug 02 - 05:53 PM

I feel sorry for people who don't drink...when they get up each morning that's the best they are going to feel all day. Dino

Drinking Problem Solver

SYMPTOM: Drinking fails to give taste and satisfaction, beer is unusually pale and clear.
FAULT: Glass empty.
ACTION REQUIRED: Find someone who will buy you another beer.

SYMPTOM: Drinking fails to give taste and satisfaction, and the front of your shirt is wet.
FAULT: Mouth not open when drinking or glass applied to wrong part of face.
ACTION REQUIRED: Buy another beer and practice in front of mirror. Drink as many as needed to perfect drinking technique.

SYMPTOM: Feet cold and wet.
FAULT: Glass being held at incorrect angle.
ACTION REQUIRED: Turn glass other way up so that open end points toward ceiling.

SYMPTOM: Feet warm and wet.
FAULT: Improper bladder control.
ACTION REQUIRED: Go stand next to nearest dog. After a while complain to the owner about its lack of house training and demand a beer as compensation.

SYMPTOM: Floor blurred.
FAULT: You are looking through bottom of empty glass.
ACTION REQUIRED: Find someone who will buy you another beer.

SYMPTOM: Floor swaying.
FAULT: Excessive air turbulence, perhaps due to air-hockey game in progress.
ACTION REQUIRED: Insert broom handle down back of jacket.

SYMPTOM: Floor moving.
FAULT: You are being carried out.
ACTION REQUIRED: Find out if you are being taken to another bar. If not, complain loudly that you are being kidnapped.

SYMPTOM: Opposite wall covered with ceiling tiles and florescent light strip across it.
FAULT: You have fallen over backward.
ACTION REQUIRED: If your glass is full and no one is standing on your drinking arm, stay put. If not, get someone to help you get up, lash yourself to bar.

SYMPTOM: Everything has gone dim, mouth full of cigarette butts.
FAULT: You have fallen forward.
ACTION REQUIRED: See above.

SYMPTOM: Everything has gone dark.
FAULT: The Bar is closing.
ACTION REQUIRED: Panic.

SYMPTOM: You awaken to find your bed hard, cold and wet. You cannot see your bedroom.
FAULT: You have spent the night in the gutter.
ACTION REQUIRED: Check your watch to see if bars are open yet. If not, treat yourself to a lie-in.

Subject: RE: BS: I am an alchoholic
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 23 Aug 02 - 11:12 AM

The jerks we shall always have with us.