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Some harsh words for Dylan

GUEST,Arne Langsetmo 18 Aug 02 - 12:07 PM
GUEST,BM 18 Aug 02 - 12:49 PM
alanabit 18 Aug 02 - 01:03 PM
little john cameron 18 Aug 02 - 01:40 PM
Don Firth 18 Aug 02 - 01:43 PM
GUEST,sorefingers 18 Aug 02 - 01:52 PM
khandu 18 Aug 02 - 01:56 PM
The Pooka 18 Aug 02 - 02:44 PM
GUEST,BM 18 Aug 02 - 03:31 PM
GUEST,sorerfingers 18 Aug 02 - 03:59 PM
GUEST 18 Aug 02 - 04:03 PM
Steve Latimer 18 Aug 02 - 05:44 PM
little john cameron 18 Aug 02 - 06:07 PM
Little Hawk 18 Aug 02 - 07:30 PM
Mark Cohen 18 Aug 02 - 07:35 PM
robomatic 18 Aug 02 - 07:43 PM
little john cameron 18 Aug 02 - 07:57 PM
The Pooka 18 Aug 02 - 10:32 PM
DonMeixner 18 Aug 02 - 10:52 PM
catspaw49 18 Aug 02 - 10:58 PM
Mark Cohen 19 Aug 02 - 12:40 AM
Bee-dubya-ell 19 Aug 02 - 01:20 AM
Venthony 19 Aug 02 - 03:14 AM
okthen 19 Aug 02 - 03:33 AM
The Pooka 19 Aug 02 - 09:43 AM
GUEST,Russ 19 Aug 02 - 10:36 AM
Bobert 19 Aug 02 - 10:58 AM
GUEST,orrickrsr 19 Aug 02 - 11:19 AM
little john cameron 19 Aug 02 - 12:23 PM
GUEST,sorefingers 19 Aug 02 - 12:33 PM
The Pooka 19 Aug 02 - 01:12 PM
little john cameron 19 Aug 02 - 01:29 PM
Bobert 19 Aug 02 - 01:50 PM
GUEST,sorefingers 19 Aug 02 - 07:31 PM
little john cameron 19 Aug 02 - 08:29 PM
catspaw49 19 Aug 02 - 11:15 PM
GUEST,sorefingers 20 Aug 02 - 12:04 AM
Mark Cohen 20 Aug 02 - 01:28 AM
JohnnyBGoode 20 Aug 02 - 02:30 AM
GUEST 20 Aug 02 - 05:04 AM
Pied Piper 20 Aug 02 - 07:20 AM
Jim McLean 20 Aug 02 - 07:32 AM
Steve Latimer 20 Aug 02 - 07:34 AM
The Pooka 20 Aug 02 - 09:21 AM
little john cameron 20 Aug 02 - 11:23 AM
GUEST 20 Aug 02 - 12:22 PM
Little Hawk 20 Aug 02 - 04:52 PM
GUEST,sorefingers 20 Aug 02 - 06:21 PM
khandu 20 Aug 02 - 07:50 PM
little john cameron 20 Aug 02 - 11:13 PM
katlaughing 21 Aug 02 - 12:27 AM
Callie 21 Aug 02 - 12:41 AM
leprechaun 21 Aug 02 - 09:55 AM
bob jr 21 Aug 02 - 10:16 AM
Little Hawk 21 Aug 02 - 10:33 AM
leprechaun 22 Aug 02 - 03:18 AM
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Subject: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 12:07 PM

Not everyone thinks highly of Dylan as of late:

http://www.unknownnews.net/cdd081602.html

Also comments on some other musicians.

Any thoughts?

Cheers,

-- Arne Langsetmo


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: GUEST,BM
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 12:49 PM

This article is somebody venting their political rhetoric, I agree with some of it - but it's just a bash on anything & everything that's in the papers as of late. As far as Bob Dylan, his image & fans have made him an "icon" of the ideals of the sixties. Anyone would have a hard time living up to the expectations of that kind of a title. I think he is a great songwriter who can reflect the political climate in his music. He does have that gift & it can't be taken from him. I am not a blind fan of Bob Dylan - in fact don't care for his live preformances or his "unique" singing style. All in all, Bob Dylan is a larger than life character & an easy target to pick on, but I don't think he deserves a lot of the things that are said about him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: alanabit
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 01:03 PM

Can't remember a time when there wasn't some half witted twit writing this sort facile nonsense. Does it matter?


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: little john cameron
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 01:40 PM

Beat this fot songwriting.LDOHC
Hope this works,it is a Japanese site.ljc


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 01:43 PM

I never have been all that blown-out about Bob Dylan and I can't really understand those who worship him as if he were some sort of singing Messiah. He was an opportunistic kid from Minnesota, and for a non-surfer, he was real good at spotting a wave, hopping onto it, and riding it for all it was worth. If what Cheryl Seal says is true, it doesn't surprise me, because he's been doing that all his life.

He did write some good songs, but even back in the mid-Sixties, Dylan himself said that he just wrote what he figured people wanted to hear. He got tired of people's expectations and made his Rock 'n' Roll debut at the 1965 Newport Folk Festival. Rock was where he wanted to be all along.

Don Firth

I know! I know! "Dylan RULES, man!!!" Go ahead and throw the rocks. I've got my Kevlon underwear on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 01:52 PM

Bingo! In fact the popularity of what preceeded BD, mainly Guthrie, was a street and bar thing. Only when the record sales began to yeild higher rewards did it become attractive to the likes of Mr Bojangles.

In my entire folder of popular songs there is but one BD offering under the heading of 'Doped Out Screwball Rants' Looking at the songs most often sung for fun I see titles like Whiskey in the Jar, Red river Valley and so on, I do not see Bdruggedibble at all.

It's not that I do not like the Dyalogues but rather I simply have no idea what the hell he is talking about, and I bet I am in not the only one who politely listens thinking at the same time 'what a load of bullshit'?


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: khandu
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 01:56 PM

SFW?

khandu


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: The Pooka
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 02:44 PM

Don Firth, LOL! heh heh... Incoming! Rocks Off! Uhh I mean, Rocks Away!! [Dylan Rocks, maaaaan. Right arm.] *Kevlon* underwear, izzit? Better put on yer *Teflar* pith helmet too: yeth, you're at rithk here. Look out kid, there's somethin' ya did...ljc, I didn't access it (too much download time for some damn thing or another) but I gather that site is Korean. Similar to Japan but not quite as advanced. Y'know, kinda like Scotland vis-a-vis Ireland...*G* heeheehee Woops! Incoming!

The Dylanbashing writer of the piece cited is, not to put too fine a point on it, fulla shite. The musical critique is based entirely on political content & politically-correct behavior. That particular philosophy of art was not invented by the 20th century fascists, but arguably they perfected it; and certainly, like other polluted streams, it does go rolling on.

I read a more plausible critique, or rather critical review---of Dylan's recent performance at the Newport Festival, his first return since that mythic day 37 years ago. The writer said it was fine, in itself--but disappointingly included no acknowledgement whatsoever of the mystical significance of this historical moment. No mention. No reprise of the offending electric set from '65. No nuffin'. Ol' Bobby Z. jes' did his reg'ler current concert stuff, exactly as usual. / Well, that's Dylan for ya, folk-folks. He's an Icon, and I say he deserves to be. And on stage, he radiates the impression that about all this Iconhood, he Doesn't Give a Damn.

In conclusion ("Hip hip, hurray!"), Don Firth: *no idea what he's talking about*?? Goodness gracious. Go listen to "Sad Eyed Lady of the Lowlands". That'll make it all perfectly clear. Plus, it's only forty verses an' it won't detain yez long. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: GUEST,BM
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 03:31 PM

I was there at Newport, he wasn't that great, twenty minutes late & very full of himself. But everyone was running around telling each other how amazing he was/is. If anyone stopped & said, "What a load of horseshit" they would have been stoned (by stones & not pot) regardless of their kevlar-panty status.


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: GUEST,sorerfingers
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 03:59 PM

Nobody sings his ranting anymore and tell you what Pooka even fewer give a shit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 04:03 PM

I'd rather listen to someone having a bowel movement than listen to Dylan.


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 05:44 PM

What a load of crap.


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: little john cameron
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 06:07 PM

Geez Pook auld pal,whit kind o' machine dae ye hae?Dae ye hae tae stock it wi'coal.Ye're missin a wheen o' guid stuff oan the net wi' that dial-up.ljc


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 07:30 PM

I think Bob's harshest words are probably in "Idiot Wind" and "Positively 4rth Street". Give 'em a listen and let me know if you agree. Like Bob, I decided long ago that there ain't no use tryin' to keep everyone happy.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 07:35 PM

I don't know, ljc, it didn't work for me, either: javascript error or some such. And it can't be a matter of not enough power...I make sure my hamsters are fed regularly.

Besides, I really enjoy threads like this: "Hey, somebody just said Dylan sucks." "He's right, Dylan sucks." "Oh, yeah? Well, you suck." "Oh, yeah? Well you suck worse."

Aloha,


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 07:43 PM

"The wind it was howling, the snow was outrageous,

We chopped through the night, and we chopped through the dawn,

When he died, I was hoping it was not contagious,

But I made up my mind I had to move on."

ISIS


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: little john cameron
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 07:57 PM

Try this Mark.I am curious now as it works fine for me.

http://www.puckii.com/player2/player.asp?SongList=32825


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: The Pooka
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 10:32 PM

Haw haw Hey there, ljc, lang time nae blether. Ye got it right aboot my computer: jus' t' keep the fires a-blazing, down the Coaltown Road. (Sorry, wrong Province there.)

LH, I always thought "Don't Think Twice, It's All Right" and "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue", and others of that genre, were pretty tough. Not exactly cherish-the-ladies sentiment, y'know. (God knows, I've bitterly nursed those lyrics m'self once or twice, ahem.)Important documentary archival material here: in his book "The Mountain of the Women", Liam Clancy implies that No he didn't actually steal Dylan's girlfriend in the Greenwich Village days; but that Bobby simply neglected her & went off on the road and well, she was lonely, so naturally...Now, was that Baby Blue? Inquiring minds want to know. :)

Dr. Mark, yessirree, ain't these Well-oh-*Yeah*? threads great? woo woo /'Rather-listen-to-Bowel-Movement' Guest: well then, be my guest. Enjoy. (Idiot Wind, indeed.) Just don't post the lyrics, OK? (Actually, I think I've seen the notation already, in another thread. Something about a 'catspaw symphony of some sort...several Movements, as I recall...)

--Dylagogue Pook (disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind, down the foggy ruins of time, far past the frozen leaves, the haunted frightened trees, out to the windy beach, far from the twisted reach of crazy sorrow...)


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: DonMeixner
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 10:52 PM

Dylan is God awful prolific. He has written, rewritten, borrowed context and content, changed a melody or two, probably due to his limited range, and created a few gems. A very few but gems none the less.

Hells bells, even a blind squirrel must get a nut now and then.

Don


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Aug 02 - 10:58 PM

I like to get a nut now and then myself Don.............

I also love this thread. The original article is pretty much long winded claptrap, but reading responses from Pooka and Little John is always entertaining. I never have a clue as to what the fuck it is they're saying but I always feel a better man for staggering through them. It's kinda' like being hit in the balls with horseshoe.....no matter how painful it is, it's a ringer!!!!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 12:40 AM

Gee whiz, 'Spaw, that's exactly what I was going to say. Uh, right.

John, I tried it and got the same javascript error message. I tried going to the main website, puckii.com, and was a bit befuddled. But I did find out I can get a Daniell shirt for only W29,800. Such a deal!

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 01:20 AM

Harsh words for Dylan? Somehow I suspect the author of the article never has anything but harsh words for anyone. She's a practitioner of the type of "journalism" that would try to make the Tooth Fairy out to be an evil monster. She should thank God daily for the Internet because she could never get a job with any real news organization. They have these things called editors.


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: Venthony
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 03:14 AM

Dear folks,

Our friend Bob is an old man now, as things were reckoned in the days before open-heart surgery, and so am I.

So here's a couple of thoughts.

The first two or three albums -- "Freewheelin'" especially -- are masterworks. And later, well, there's "Nashville Skyline," with Norman Blake and Charlie Daniels playing, gosh, pretty good licks for pretty good songs.

As for all the rest, Bob is just what he is -- a working musican and a very good writer. Maybe not the best ever, maybe not even as good as he once was. But then, I'm not as good as I once was either. All you 20-somethings, let me tell you true, you're time is coming.

All I know is that, on certain nights with certain friends, "Don't Think Twice" and "Blowin' in the Wind" still make me cry. They're wonderful songs, and that's enough.

I love ya Bob, even if you're not the Messiah. I never thought you were, and you certainly never wanted to be.

And for all you second-guessers and wannabees, here's a real gen-u-wine INsight (as Woody might've wrote): Bob, you can pick and sing in MY kitchen any day of the week.

Hugs and kisses, Tony


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: okthen
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 03:33 AM

The guy saw a "highway of diamonds with nobody on it", who can blame him for filling his boots. His worst songs are better than a lot of other peoples best.

I missed his UK tour, sure hope he (and I) live long enough for another.


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: The Pooka
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 09:43 AM

Right Arm & Fore Out, Venthony & Okthen. May you be knockknockknockin' on Heaven's door while the rest of these Nuts are buried far east of Eden.

Mark Cohen, heal thyself, & rest easy: *nobody* equals the mighty catspaw in the eloquence department.

Mr. 'spaw sir: **LOL** & thankee kindly. That's on behalf of EllJaySee too, for whom I am a Designated Politico-Ethnic Spokespooka. Sorry to hear about yer getting trapped by the Long Winded Clap, but this, too, shall Pass. Regarding your Ringer, I believe it's dePicted on an archeological website: see What-the-Fook-Pook post on Oldest European Folksong thread. It's a load of horseshoes but you'll enjoy it. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 10:36 AM

Dylan was never fan or media friendly. He made no bones about it. That was part of the mystique. Still is.

Dylan out of context cannot possibly make any sense. Ya had to be there.

Even if you were there, the context is now almost impossible to grok. It seems almost like a dream to me now: a guy with a weird voice and an acoustic guitar being such a major force in the pop music industry.

My daughter just read a recent nonfiction autobiographical work that includes an apparently unvarnished look at life during the 60s. She was appalled. She was also quite willing to voice her disapproval of our generation's sacred time. It was a chilling glimpse of the future.


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 10:58 AM

Hey, folks. Every one has their roles. Yeah, Dylan might have made a few bucks along the way but if ya' take Dylan's body of work and the works of other that he influenced, ya' got a big, big hole to fill. Yeah, it would be nice if he was some extroverted, confident public speaker who would stand at the microphone and rail against the establishment. But that's not him. Maybe he wishes it were. He's not exactly an ordinary guy and he certainly has his share of demons with which to deal. So, ol' bobert says, "Give the poor... strike that... man a break.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: GUEST,orrickrsr
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 11:19 AM

Fourty years from now when the schlock I hear, even on the radio, today, that is apparently the main stuff, is reviewed and compared with Dylan, he will surely be proclaimed a genius. People who knew Dylan when we were young, thought he was just a young man in love with his guitar who liked to perform, even when nobody would listen, and I would guess that he was probably just lucky to make it, initially. Considering that he has performed in the studio with Michael Bloomfield, Al Kooper, Jerry Garcia and the rest of the Dead, Emmylou Harris, Mark Knopfler, Charlie Daniels, Johnny Cash, Charlie McCoy, Daniel Lanois,Roy Orbison and the rest of the Wilburys, and a whole bunch that I can't remember, there must be something there that doesn't deserve the "harsh words". Us old guys, even us conservatives, think he was the troubadour that best reminded us of who we were.


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: little john cameron
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 12:23 PM

Years ago when ah wis aboot 19,seems like yesterday,aw us young anes were listenin tae the popular music o' the time.Aw they Bobby this an' Bobby that.Some grand singers bit the songs were aw the usual Boy/Girl stuff wi' the odd bit o' "Skiffle".
Then ane day ah heard this ither "Bobby",whit's this ah thocht.Ah couldnae make oot a bloody word.However,ah persevered an' got the hang o' it.
At the time ah had a wee band that played aw insrumentals,The Shadows an' The Ventures stuff.Nae singer,so we jist played the same tunes aw the time.
That wis it,awa wi' the electric guitars an' amp an in wi' an acoustic,cannae mind whit it wis.Ah,them were the days,wanderin aboot the different pubs daein mah Bob MacDylan extravaganza.

Fae there ah discovered folk music o' mah ain people.Years later when ah wis in Toronto ah wis introduced tae the man himsel.Cannae mind much o' that first meetin,bit a mind he said tae me"Yeah,yo're the guy sings muh songs in a funny accent!"
Mony years later ah can pit oan mah BD albums an' be transported back tae the days music wis an adventure.

Thanks Bob,ye brocht a new vision o' the world tae me.ljc


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 12:33 PM

40 years from now the Radio Historian will have even less of an idea what the hell this joker was trying to say!

And, now that I am getting excited, he is to Folk Singing what Mad Donna is to the virgin Mary which explains why his head was at all times either going into a dope bag or comming out, a sort of epsom salts for his brain.

In short Dyladrivel is an attempt to hide the fact that his voice sounds like a dog with a telephone rammed down its neck. Cbrcrschroaaakkk Singing? I think not.!

If he wrote even one folk song I would leave it be, but he didn't. Stealing is easy for one who has nothing to start and Bob had all of that - nothing. His singing these days - ridden with the guilt of the people he lied to, the people he stole from, the children he misled into a life of drugs and death, and so on - sounds like that of a dead man trying to get it on. Croak croak ...squish .."Mr Booob Die .... lllll"


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: The Pooka
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 01:12 PM

Exactly right, Guest orrickrsr. & Spot on, ljc, re that fine reminiscence. "Fae there ah discovered folk music o' mah ain people" -- same here. / Uh but: "...Ah couldnae make oot a bloody word" - isn't that what catspaw was saying aboot *us*? :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: little john cameron
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 01:29 PM

Aye Pook,it's aw in the ear o' the listener.ljc


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 01:50 PM

GUEST, sorefingers: I'm hoping that you are just trolling but if, by some chance you aren't, I'd suggest you back and do some listenin' to Dylan, then come back and reread your last post. Talking about drugs? Hmmmmmmm? Ol' bobert thinks maybe the reason your fingers are sore is 'cause you're spending too much time in the bag yourself.

Dylan is way beyond Voice 101, which I think we would all agree Dylan might find difficult. But Voice 101 ain't about spirit, and substance, and art but mechanics. I'z stickin' to my last post. Give the guy a break, will 'ya. If ya' don't like his music, fine. Don't listen to it. But not listening to it will never make you an authority on Dylan or anyone else that you won't listen to.

The mind is like a parachute, don't work too well closed.

Just my opinion...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 07:31 PM

Oouch - Ok lets see what is going on with BD! From one of his songs.

The machine guns are roaring
The puppets have rocks
The fiends nail time bombs
To the hands of the clocks

Fiends, yeah right some old country boy says " Ouuu arrrhhh I wuz singin with me finger in me ear 'Fiends and sider barrels an wenches'" !!! and then Machine Guns and Puppets??? An average person would really be into this uupercrust operatic imagery IF they could understand the language.

Second those of us who have some idea of what he failed to say - idiots bullets and gore - are gone already.

My fingers are sore from playing a plywood Martin - after years of not playing anything.

Trolling is a term used by certain people on this site for ever and it is a cue to the rest of the regestered users to support the offended member. Go ahead.

I was here from wayback lurking and posting as Guest even for a while as a member but for personal safety I had to let that lapse. Hey I prefer my privacy -nuff said.


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: little john cameron
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 08:29 PM

Fingers,what you said makes about as much sense as tits on a nun.The "Circus is in town" see if they need some clowns!! ljc


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Aug 02 - 11:15 PM

Actually LJ, in the context of Dylan, wouldn't it be more accurate to ask if he/she is a sailor in a beauty parlor since the circus is in town? In any case, wherever twits gather, sf will be there.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 12:04 AM

You as well, 50 years too late and totaly irrelevant to todays audience, LJC. Catspaw you always wuz a little whacked out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 01:28 AM

Pooka, just be sure 'Spaw never finds out what your name means in Hawaiian, or you'll never hear the end of it.

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: JohnnyBGoode
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 02:30 AM

He's my favorite.


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 05:04 AM

opinions are like arseholes...everyone has one...this thread is a prime example


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: Pied Piper
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 07:20 AM

sorefingers, the meaning of the verse you chose is crystal clear to any one with an I.Q. larger than his shoe size. Might I suggest you take up basket weaving its much more therapeutic than literary criticism. PP


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: Jim McLean
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 07:32 AM

I was around with Dylan in the early 60's, in London. I asked Martin Carthy to let him sing as a floor singer in a London folk club where Martin was the compere and Dylan did his Woody act and was very good. I had a few discussions with him --- he actually asked me if I was Hamish Henderson --- and he wondered why McColl was living in a nice house!! I'm afraid both of us were stoned most of the time, he on pot and I on whisky but us Scottish folkies who were writing republican and anti-polaris songs thought he was a pop singer with rather pretentious and weak political songs (our opinions!). It was also aggravating to see his manager, Al Grossman, recording the Saturday night folk session at the Troubadour where a wealth of traditional (and not so traditional) songs were sung. The tapes were taken back to their hotel and gave birth to various Dylan originals like 'God on our side', 'Pretty Peggy-o' etc. I think it was Liam Clancy who commented on the fact that one of Dylan's songs were written to the harmony of a song as the microphone was placed too near to the 'harmony' singer! I discussed Dominic Behan's Patriot Game with Dylan and, leaving aside the tune, his verse 'My name it means nothing, my age it means less' shows that he wrote his song after studying Dominic's ' My name is O'Hanlon, my age is sixteen'. He was a decent kid surrounded by pot heads, and driven straight into the arms of big business, but he could do a great Woody Guthrie! Cheers, Jim Mclean


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 07:34 AM


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: The Pooka
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 09:21 AM

Dr. Mark: *UH*-oh. Well thanks for the, uh, heads-up. But perhaps I'm safe: *you'd* never tell him, right? :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: little john cameron
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 11:23 AM

Aye right enough Spaw,but ah reckoned the beauty parlour wis fu' o' sailors bit there micht be room for a clown.BTW,Did you get mah email,ljc


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 12:22 PM

refresh


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 04:52 PM

Speaking of a guy who reputedly has/had "no range"...uhhhh...say what???!!! I am quite a good singer, with quite a respectable range (better than most of the male singers I know). My voice is far more conventional than Bob's, and his detractors I'm sure would like it just fine.

But...I have attempted to match Bob's very singing notes on a variety of cuts from various albums, and I have discovered: he could sing higher than I can, and he could sing lower than I can. This is a simple fact. He had a terrific voice from the early seventies through the late eighties, and a very impressive range. Also, he could really belt it out. For those who don't know this, I suggest you are either largely ignorant of most of what he has recorded or you just can't be bothered to listen past your prejudices to what is plainly there.

Now it's a different story. I saw him a few days ago in Toronto (good show) and he is plainly unable to hit the high notes any longer, nor can he sustain a strong drawn-out note any more. He was very good at doing both till the early 90's, but fifty billion cigarettes and advancing age finally took their toll. So now he sings lower harmony notes where necessary, and works with shorter utterances instead of sustained notes like he used to do.

Who else do you know who at age 60 still performs all over the world on a steady basis and keeps coming up with new arrangements and new songs? How well will you be singing when you're 60? Will you be singing at all? Bob still is.

Look, I can't stand Frank Sinatra's style. I grit my teeth when I hear him. But I would never claim he can't sing or wasn't a good musician. If you don't like Bob, well, listen to somebody else.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 06:21 PM

Little Hawk your objectivity enriches you! The man was and is a money grabber -

Pied wants folk music to be Middleclass, hey why not make it completely Corpofolk - 'Maul Wart' it - have it made in China and resell it in the mall.


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: khandu
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 07:50 PM

"Ah, if there is an original thought out there, I sure could use on now."

Same old song, different dance.

khandu


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: little john cameron
Date: 20 Aug 02 - 11:13 PM

In his article "Bob Dylan -- a new voice singing new songs" from "Sing Out!" (Oct/Nov 1962), reprinted in "The Dylan Companion", edited by Elizabeth Thomson & David Gutman (London: Papermac, 1991), Gil Turner paraphrases Dylan's statements from the WBAI-FM Broadside show:

While Bob is a noteworthy folk performer with a bright future, I believe his most significant and lasting contribution will be in the songs he writes. Dylan avoids the terms "write" or "compose" in connection with his songs.

"The songs are there. They exist all by themselves, just waiting for someone to write them down. I just put them down on paper. If I didn't do it, somebody else would."

His method of writing places the emphasis on the words, the tune almost always being borrowed or adapted from one he has heard somewhere, usually a traditional one.
ljc


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 12:27 AM

He can sing "Lay, Lady, Lay" anytime in my bedroom...

if he had remained poor as a church mouse, would some of you now be denigrating him so much? He's going to be here later this summer and I can't wait to go have a listen.

You one-nutters can now go piss up a rope!**BG**


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: Callie
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 12:41 AM

sorefingers: those lines from "Farewell Angelina" make sense to me, and I'm no Mensa qualifier.


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: leprechaun
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 09:55 AM

A slightly kooky but loveable English professor at the University of Oregon offered a class, popular for many years, called Johnson/Guthrie/Dylan.

The cool thing about Dylan is his longevity. He borrowed or stole from everybody.

Maybe some people would have liked him more if he had died when he was thirty.

So ha ha, piss on your old sore fingers. I got an A in that class, even though I flunked the mid-term.


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: bob jr
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 10:16 AM

wonder why you pick on dylans "stealing" more than guthries(who as far as i can tell wrote maybe maybe three whole original melodies in his entire life) and robert johnson(who wrote it appears ...none) oh yeah hank williams used to buy songs off other writers or just steal em outright and get sued later.


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Aug 02 - 10:33 AM

"Stealing", as some put it, is the natural folk process that has gone on for thousands of years...and it indicates respect and affection for the past, not larceny.

What really bugs people about Dylan is sheer envy. They wish they could've done it, and can't understand why it was him instead. Too bad. Maybe next time. Next lifetime, I mean...

Then if you do become that rich and famous, you will discover that there are some serious disadvantages that you will have to put up with too, like losing your privacy, being able to trust virtually no one, and having legions of gloriously ignorant fools accuse you of things you never even thought of in the first place.

"Somebody's got it in for me
They're planting stories in the press
Whoever it is, I wish they'd cut it out quick
When they will, I can only guess
They say I shot a man named Grey
And took his wife to Italy
She inherited a million bucks
And when she died it came to me
I can't help it if I'm lucky."

He did exactly what everyone else around him was trying to do...he was just far more successful at it.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: Some harsh words for Dylan
From: leprechaun
Date: 22 Aug 02 - 03:18 AM

Yes, that's what I meant by stealing, in a good sense, like in basketball. Like, "Good steal Mr. Bob!" And not necessarily stealing directly, but borrowing styles, fashions, and experimenting with genres. Mr. Bob went everywhere, Blues, British Isles Folk, Country & Western, Gospel, Rock, and lots of other places I don't know enough about to mention. There's so much, nobody could like all of it. But you have to be a premeditated turd to hate all of it.


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