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Tuvan Throat Singing
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Subject: Tuvan Throat Singing From: dwditty Date: 23 Aug 02 - 11:01 AM I just watched a video called Genghis Blues - a documentary in which bluesman Paul Pena travels to Tuva (part of Russia now, near Mongolia) to perform throat singing in its place of origin. The gist of the technique is that the Tuvans have learned how to isolate the undertones and overtones that are always present when we sing. The result is a sound that is not to be believed. Just another example of how remarkable the human voice is. Recommended viewing. dw BTW, I purchased this DVD at the Discovery Channel retail store. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tuvan Throat Singing From: katlaughing Date: 23 Aug 02 - 11:18 AM I saw it a few years ago and was absolutely captivated. Here's a little more of what I posted then: Tuva and Ghengis Blues. It is uncanny and I still enjoy my CD, very much. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tuvan Throat Singing From: weepiper Date: 23 Aug 02 - 11:25 AM I've seen it done live by the group Huun Huur Tu. It's absolutely mindblowing to see and hear. I've a friend who learnt to do it too but he can't do it for very long at a time. I suspect it takes years of practice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tuvan Throat Singing From: dwditty Date: 23 Aug 02 - 11:28 AM Kat, Thanks for the link back to that thread. Great info. And Paul Pena did play with T-Bone Walker along with many others. His only hit was Steve Miller's cover of his song Jet Airliner. dw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tuvan Throat Singing From: Mudlark Date: 23 Aug 02 - 12:20 PM It was a great movie, unbelievable sound. And Pena's almost childlike open pleasure at being there, and being appreciated by these folks, was captivating. I cant imagine why this thread is preceeded by a BS... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tuvan Throat Singing From: Kim C Date: 23 Aug 02 - 12:20 PM This is not BS! :-) Well, I didn't realize till now, that I had a Brush with Greatness. Several years ago, Paul Pena and Kongor-Ol Ondar were in Nashville for something or other, I don't even remember now. I think it was a TV taping. A friend of mine was doing some publicity work for them and she said, come along, we're going to a show and then to dinner. Paul's going to need a guide, though, can you do that? Well, sure, I said. We had a big time. I didn't know who he was, just that he was accompanying this sweet little man from Mongolia who could do this interesting style of singing. How about that. I saw Kongor-Ol on the Letterman show awhile back. It's very fascinating what he can do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tuvan Throat Singing From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 23 Aug 02 - 04:37 PM Imagine, singing three melody lines at one time! Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tuvan Throat Singing From: Art Thieme Date: 23 Aug 02 - 05:04 PM It's like having a jews harp surgically implanted in your throat. Just amazing. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tuvan Throat Singing From: open mike Date: 23 Aug 02 - 05:14 PM There are some buddhist monks who have also adopted this style of singing, and i hear "throat singing" on songs every now and then as folks are learning to integrate it. Seeing Huun Huur Tu live is an incredible experience.. the horse figures very prominently in their culture and on many of their instruments there are horse's heads carved on the instruments. I think some were made out of horses bones and hides. too. try going to www.genghisblues.com for more info about the movie- I seem to recall that Paul Pen~a had health problems, maybe even passed away recently -anyone know?? also check out the smithsonian folkways c.d." TUVA- voices from the center of Asia" and a c.d. book combo (c.d. sized bound booklet w/ cd included) by Musical Expeditions "Deep in the Heart of TUVA" subtitled cowboy music from the wild east....by ellipsis arts.. there is also a video of the Tuva area with great scenery and cultural background info including a sacred springs where offerings are left. The scene is an interesting one with litle ribbons and strips of cloth tied all around on the bushes growing by the spring--left as offerings for healing power, etc. One of the dicoveries of Tuva was by stamp collectors who loved their triangular postage. Richard Feinman, a physisist (is that right--looks like too many "esses") from california (berkekly? stanford? down south? fell in love with the country=first form their stamps i think, and went there many times...he was like an ambassador for them...you will find Tuva mentioned in his writings...also check out the video "Herders of Mongun-Taiga" partr of the disappearing world series by Shanachie Entertainment group--http://www.shanachie.com/ The Tuvans live in high elevation--over 6'000 feet, in yurts, herding yak, sheep horses and goats..very interesting culture and russia has done a lot to repress many of the tuvan ways and to try to make the people conforn to soviet ways--until they found a way to capitalize on the rarity--the agent who travelled with the group when they were touring was a russian... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tuvan Throat Singing From: Burke Date: 23 Aug 02 - 05:22 PM There's supposed to be some early blues recordings that have the overtone effect as well. I agree that Huun Huur Tu is amazing. When they do their jaw harp ensemble it's hard to tell how many series there are. I've also heard it's very hard on the heart & singers tend to die young. Here's a link for more information. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Tuvan Throat Singing From: open mike Date: 23 Aug 02 - 06:53 PM http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/music/B0000516VT/customer-reviews/ref%3Dcm%5Fcr%5Fdp%5F2%5F1/103-5203829-1476621 this is a humongus URL, but it is a review of genghis blues on the amazon site... the author Feynman wrote "Tuva or bust" and i may hve goofed-i think it was China that repressed the tuvan culture, like they did Tibet and Nepal.... here is a tuvan web ring site...http://mail.tuvaorbust.com there are 3 basic styles: sygyt-aka kermit the frog style--ur-ee-ur-ee hoomei-aka howlin' wolf--oo-uh-oo-uh kargyraa-aka popeye the sailor- very low undertones-uh-oh-oo-ah
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Subject: RE: BS: Tuvan Throat Singing From: Jim Dixon Date: 24 Aug 02 - 03:19 PM Yup, I've heard Huun-Huur-Tu perform in concert, and it is amazing. If there's anybody reading this who doesn't know what we're talking about, I've found some sound samples at CDNOW that illustrate this: Go to Huun-Huur-Tu : Where Young Grass Grows and play "9. Barlyk River". The sound that vaguely resembles a whistle that enters about 23 seconds into the sample is actually a human voice! Another deeper sound appears in "10. Tarlaashkyn", appearing about 15 seconds in. On Huun-Huur-Tu : If I'd Been Born An Eagle, play "8. Chylandyk". It combines the two sounds that appear separately in the first 2 cuts. But still, that's just one person's voice you're hearing! On Huun-Huur-Tu : Orphan's Lament, play "1. Prayer" to hear several voices chanting together. I think this is similar to what some Tibetan Buddhist monks do. In "3. Aa-Shuu Dekei-Oo" the vocal "mouth music" is an interlude to a song in the familiar "call and response" format. "8. Borbanngadyr" is the most spectacular example of vocal gymnastics I have found. Again, you are hearing one person's voice only; no instruments and no overdubbing! |
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Subject: RE: Tuvan Throat Singing From: rich-joy Date: 26 Aug 02 - 06:47 PM My Partner got very good at the Buddhist Monk style of overtone singing (they are frequent visitors to the Woodford Folk Festival in Oz) and was then often called on to do his "party-piece" (he was taught the words to a couple of prayers by the monks), but he then discovered that it was wrecking his normally lovely singing voice and so, has had to let it all go!! Cheers! R-J |
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Subject: RE: Tuvan Throat Singing From: Dharmabum Date: 26 Aug 02 - 07:05 PM I just had the opportunity to see Huun-Huur-Tu at the Philadelphia Folk Festival this weekend. The sounds that these men create with their voices is just amazing! DB. |
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Subject: RE: Tuvan Throat Singing From: Mountain Dog Date: 26 Aug 02 - 07:26 PM Here's a link to Paul's website. An amazing guy. He's definitely alive, successfully battling pancreatitis, has lost a vast amount of weight since the filming of "Genghis Blues" and is still gigging and doing his unbelievable "kungaraa" (sp?) or "Earthquake-style" throat singing. Good on ya, Paul; may you keep on rattling the vault of heaven for years to come! Toward the end of his life, Frank Zappa became very interested in Tuvan Throat Singing as well; you can find some bits and pieces about his fascination with it on the official Frank website, here: http://www.zappa.com
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Subject: RE: Tuvan Throat Singing From: katlaughing Date: 26 Aug 02 - 07:37 PM Great links, everyone! I've had the pleasure of helping to host Buddhist monks from Tibet, twice. Both times included performances and morning prayers in a small granite church with great acoustics. What they did with their voices was very like the Tuvans, though without the whistles and other nature-mimicking embellishments. Both, monks and Tuvans...just amazing. |
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Subject: RE: Tuvan Throat Singing From: open mike Date: 27 Aug 02 - 05:22 AM ooops paul sorry to spread nasty rumors--as mark twain said "rumors of my demise are grossly exageratted..." it seems someone near to paul, perhaps his wife? passed away?? or is that a nasty rumour too?! i thought his name was pen~a as in penya with a squiggle over the "N" or am i off base there too? any way glad to see he is making music now-a-days and i have a few pounds i could share.... by the way, the zappa site requires flash 6, and the link does not exactly go there...it works best if you cut and paste the zappa URL.
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Subject: RE: Tuvan Throat Singing From: GUEST,Mike The Knife Date: 27 Aug 02 - 11:15 AM I used to play the Paul Pena and Kongor-Ol Ondar (at least I believe it was that recording...) thing on the air when I was a DJ for Jazz Radio Berlin in '95. Cool stuff. Got a few inquiries from listeners, but I knew precious little about it. The Feynman book "Tuva or Bust" was a cool read as well. |
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Subject: RE: Tuvan Throat Singing From: Bearheart Date: 28 Aug 02 - 11:35 AM Fact is that throat singing is done by many of the shamanic peoples throughout Siberia and Mongolia, and it is actually a shamanic trance and healing technique as used by those cultures, as it is in Tibet and other places (while the Tibetan Buddhists may not always acknowledge it their spiritual practices owe much to traditional shamanism, including the Geser myth which is originally Mongolian. All of the tribal peoples throughout these regions have been negatively impacted by the Chinese and Russian governments, particularly after the advent of Communism. However, since Westerners have become interested in shamanism, there is a lot of shamanically oriented tourism going on and, even with the negative immpact of that, it is helping to preserve both the culture and the music, since the government is willing to make money on this interest. Have all of the above-mentioned cds and love them, Plus a few more, including Tenores di Bitti, the Sardinian version of throat singing. Check it out-- Catholic influenced but with the sound of the, wind, the cows and the sheep in the different "voices". Very compelling because it is a European tradition but clearly also based in our ancient shamanic past,as well as the troubadour and Catholic religious tradition... Bekki |
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Subject: RE: Tuvan Throat Singing From: masato sakurai Date: 28 Aug 02 - 12:05 PM Smithsonian/Folkways has released an interesting CD: Tuva: Voices From the Center of Asia [with sound clips], which open mike has already mentioned above. I have a 3-CD album titled Les Voix du Monde: Une Anthologie des Expressions Vocales (Le Chant du Monde CMX 374 1010.12), which show how expressive human voices are (Tuvan kargyraa overtone song is contained). ~Masato |
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Subject: RE: Tuvan Throat Singing From: Nigel Parsons Date: 29 Aug 02 - 05:50 AM For a wide range of listings, just put "Khoomi" or "Khoomei" in your search engine of choice. Nigel |
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Subject: RE: Tuvan Throat Singing From: rich-joy Date: 29 Aug 02 - 05:59 AM I agree, Bearheart - that Sardinian (and Sicilian) polyphonic singing is amazing stuff!! Worth the listen too ... Cheers! R-J |
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Subject: RE: Tuvan Throat Singing From: Counterfit Date: 30 Aug 02 - 10:54 AM I lived in Ulaan Baatar for three years and became familiar with what I know as HUMI singing, although there is no way on God's Earth that I can actually achieve any of these effects, and not for want of trying to learn. Last weekend I was in Edinburgh and, it being the festival, the place was crowded with street performers. Sitting quietly in a church doorway I saw a small man playing a Murin Hoor (Mongolian Horse Head Fiddle)so I wanderewd across and said "Sain Bainuu". I rapidly explained that was the limit of my Mongolia except how to direct a taxi driver and to ask for "guruv peev". That was OK because he was japanese but had been in Mongolia for a year studying Humi, did I want to hear some....yes please! This guy was as good as any Mogolian throat singer I had heard when I lived there, he'd soon built up a large appreciate crowd, a number of whom asked me about this type of singing, if I'd taken the hat around he'd have made a packet. Keith |
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