Folklore: Wearing of Kilts

Subject: Wearing of Kilts
From: selby
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 02:19 PM

Next year 2003 a group of friends have suggested that on the final night of Whitby Folk Week that we wear Kilts. How do you decide which tartan to wear I am a Richardson my Grandmother a McDougall my Great Grandmother a Burns.Who's tartan do I wear? Keith

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 02:29 PM

Does it matter? They all look more than a little silly...

Look like yer walking around wearing granny's picknic-table cloth...

,-)

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 02:33 PM

Wear whatever you like with the possible exception of Royal Stewart. The sassenachs made up the whole clan tartan idea anyway.

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: GUEST,Melani
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 02:34 PM

Whatever you wear, if you're not used to being in a skirt, be careful how you sit. I could tell some tales from the Renaissance Faire...

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: MMario
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 02:37 PM

According to this site most likely McDougal or Campbell (Burns is a sept of Campbell)

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 02:47 PM

given Mario's advice above, pick the one of the two you like the best, and don't forget there are 'ancient' & 'modern' & 'hunting' to choose from, the ancient usually are a softer version of the modern, very nice.

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: MMario
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 02:51 PM

"hunting" is usually simpler and less recognizable.

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 02:58 PM

and I suppose one it to where the 'hunting' when one is out hunting, so that rules out that one!

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 05:34 PM

My mothers maiden name is Ramsay and they have about 3 tartans. I had a kilt in the family dress tartan which was mainly red. I was a child and probably wouldn't wear one now!

Cat

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 05:42 PM

Well we've heard that the wicked sassenachs banned tartan, and also invented it.They are meant to have banned it in 1746 according to a previous thread, so when did they invent it exactly? And why?

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: Micca
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 05:42 PM

and of course you have to ask yourself whether you are a " traditionalist" or a "Modernist" and that will decide an important question...
BTW the Royal Stewart is the Universal one that anyone can wear,as a Subject of HM the Queen, usually you have to be a member of or descendant of the Clan to wear a clan tartan!! It is the most Comfortable Formal Outfit I have EVER worn in my life...!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 05:51 PM

Sorcha was a bit sweeping earlier on. Certainly, many of the "named" tartans as we know them today were invented in the wake of the craze for all things Scottish that followed King George's visit (masterminded by Walter Scott) by fabric companies jumping on the bandwagon, but whether they were Scottish- or English-owned, I wouldn't know. Highland dress was proscribed (by the British, not English, government) for some years following the last Jacobite rebellion, but only in the Highlands.

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: The Walrus
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 05:57 PM

Be bold, bin the lot and wear a kilt of hodden grey Better still wear a belted plaid (philamhor?)of Hodden.

Walrus

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 05:58 PM

There's some good Cornish kilts being invented at the moment( or revived as their wearers would say). I'm a devout Cornishman, but I havent taken the plunge yet.

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 06:09 PM

You could always try wearing one of those those tutus that ceremonial Greek soldiers wear...

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 07:19 PM

I suppose I come closest to Murray clan...but it's a bit late for me, and my ancestors have been HERE for 200 years, so it would be silly...

anyway, no kilts for me, as I don't trust Mother Nature

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: smallpiper
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 07:35 PM

The English didn't invent tartan the ancient tribes that lived in Britain prior to the roman occupation wore tartan, the whole clan tartan thing (as has already been said) was invented by the Victorians, prior to that people just wore what was made locally. So wear what ever takes your fancy.And enjoy it! However be warned Kilts are very warm, very warm indeed!

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 08:00 PM

Irish marching bands wear kilts which are orange instead of tartan.

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 08:08 PM

Smallpiper, that is really what I meant but you said it better. Mr. is Clan Chattan, Davison sept, but can you find Chattan in Wyoming? Hell no, and I am NOT paying the Great Big Bucks to import one!! All I've ever seen for imports are filebegs, and he wears a filemor.

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 10:49 PM

Generally the Irish don't wear clan tartans, rather they wear the colors of the County they come from, or the Irish National. I love kilts, they are comfortable and look good with a lot of different types of shirts, and footwear. I have one that is made of duck canvas with a standard cut to it. It is great for lounging, or for participating in sports. I often wear it with a t shirt and Doc Marten style boots. I always get lots of compliments that go something like "Big men look great in kilts......". How is that for a backhanded reference.....................LOL.

Mick

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: mack/misophist
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 11:05 PM

For what it's worth, I've always heard that the Black Watch was the universal 'guest' tartan.

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 11:10 PM

check these out: utilikilts dot com

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Sep 02 - 11:22 PM

Yeah kat, I have seen these before. I don't care much for them with all the pockets and such. I prefer the "traditional" cut with two buckles. But that use more utiltarian materials, such as the canvass duck. The utilikilt reminds me of an apron with pockets. I will see if I can find the website for mine.

Mick

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 04:14 AM

New tartans are making their appearance almost continuously. There's a lot of truth in the statement that the Victorians were the "inventers" of the sma' kilt, AND many of the tartans which go with it. Tartan existed in the Scottish highlands [and in many another remote area] ever since the art of cloth weaving came into being. The "clan tartan" however was a phenomenon which had very vague roots, at best. Tartan as a pattern was simply the coincidental outcome of the slow weaving process , and the seasonal availability of vegetable dyes in certain areas. This resulted in the warp and weft producing a chequered pattern which we describe as "tartan". In the past times, when the [detestable] clan sytem was in place, fellow clansmen were more likely to be recognised by what they wore on their bonnets [white cockade, red hackle, grouse feather etc..] And just for the record, I own a Gordon regimental kilt which I first wore fifty-six years ago---and it still gets an occasional airing!

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: smallpiper
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 04:28 AM

"Big men look great in kilts" - its a damm good job too! My ex used to call me a fat bastard in a skirt whenever I wore my kilt - but I think that was because I have better legs than her!!!!! ;-)

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 04:36 AM

When you wera a kilt you have a few decisions to make....1) Which tartan and 2)......what are you going to wear underneath it....or not!!!!

Cat

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: smallpiper
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 04:47 AM

No there is only one decision and that is which tartan.... wear anything underneath and you have cooked bollocks - not good for the reproductive system and you have to be a "Reel man" to wear a kilt! It takes a lot of courage the first time out but after that you just get brazen!

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: GUEST,Mikey joe
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 04:58 AM

You shouldn't wear anything under the kilt, but if going to a match or something where a long walk is involved, I sometimes wear briefs to prevent ahem... chaffing. They are disposed of as soon as the all the walking is over. You could also wear the Flower of Scotland tartan which is a nice "general" tartan.

Slán Mj

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From:
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 05:06 AM

well....what can i say, as far as the question of modern or ancient? what does it matter......I've been participating in the SCA for over ten years now as a scot and a real life member of clan MacDonald and i've found out over the years that it's not what kind of kilt ya wear......but how you wear it. the best times of the year ta buy the tartan is at christmas......most of the fabric stores carry universal tartan that anyone can wear.....granted ye'll pay dearly for it...(about 12.50 to 20.00 dollars per yard) but it's worth it in the long run. all ya need to do is learn how to properly pleat it. (i own about 3 colors of tartan, I wear whatever color suits my fancy at the time) granted i would love to import some of my clan's tartan, but at 30.00+ per yard alas that dream will probably never happen, so in the meantime I make do with what i have. I also own my clan's badge so there's no question whom i'm with.

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: Gervase
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 05:57 AM

Make sure the kilt is long enough, too.
I inherited my father's kilt, but he was a good couple of inches shorter than me, and his kilt rode alarmingly high above my knees. It was something I learned to live with, until walking u Kensington Church street to a Burns Night dinner I was jolted out of a reverie by a cold hand on my arse, followed by a shriek: "Stroo! Stroo!"
I almost jumped out of my skin. I turned round and was confronted with two grinning and blushing Spanish girls, who apologised and explained that they'd been told that chaps didn't wear anything under the kilt and a long lunch had given them the Dutch courage to put it to the test when confronted with a bloke walking in front of them with a rather brief little number!
As for the tartan, I think it was Graham, which my father claimed he was vaguely entitled to wear, but he used to refer to it as 'Hunting Cohen' when asked.

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: GUEST,Davetnova
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 06:46 AM

Looking at portraits of emininent scots from the days before the uprisings it seems almost de rigeur to wear as many "tartans" as possible with jacket, trews,hose, waistcoat,plaid etc all in different patterns. Some clan septs may have all worn the same pattern but this was probably due to buying complete rolls of cloth from the weaver and clothing the whole family in it.

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: selby
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 01:14 PM

Am I right in saying that going commando means you are wearing a kilt made out of camoflage fabric!! So I think its the McDougall Tartan for me and now the difficult bit plucking up courage to wear it.Is there a drink from Scotland that makes all inhibitions dissappear? Keith

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 01:25 PM

it's not what's put on under the kilt, it's what goes on under the kilt!

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: The Walrus at work
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 01:34 PM

Should I be really pedantic and point out that tartan is the cloth the kilt is made of and not the pattern on it (that IIRC is the "Sett"). I recall, last year, seeing a "Jacobite" (1745) re-enactor in full kit (Broadsword, skein dhu, targe, dags etc.) all, I was assured (by another member of the society), carefully researched His Philamohr/plaid was of one sett, his tunic a second, his waistcoat a third (all of which clashed)[1] and these were matched with black and white diced hose and topped by a blue bonnet, he was certainly a striking figure (revolting taste to modern eyes, but striking). I wouldn't recommend the effect.

Walrus

[1] He looked like a colour-blind golfer who'd dressed in the dark.

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: MMario
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 01:54 PM

If I recall correctly the Sett is actually the pattern that would PRODUCE the tartan; at least that is how it was described in the (very old) book I practically hand copied 30 years ago. the tartan is the pattern itself when woven; (but not the cloth. tartan would be the pattern ON the cloth.)

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 04:44 PM

And a plaid ("played") is a garment.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: The Walrus
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 07:31 PM

MMario,

Officers of the British Army, certainly at the begining of the 20th century, wore a "frock" (an unlined and unstructured jacket) in "tartan", these frocks were either scarlet or blue (depending on the arm of service), but were solid coloured and not patterned. I maintain that "tartan" is the cloth (Dress regulations refer to the pattern worn by The "Black Watch" as "Government sett" or "Government pattern" not "Government tartan").

Walrus

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: Peg
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 09:40 PM

There is nothing sexier than a man in a kilt! Ask the lass that has seen her share of men of all shapes, sizes, ages and shades of handsomeness in them...mind you, you need to make sure you have appropriate footwear! Not necesarily "proper" but appropriate...the fancy woolen socks and mocs are fine, but black combat boots look nice too. Just no boat shoes or sneakers!

There is something very manly about them; maybe because many of the men you see wearing them are Scots! And of course one needs to be secure in one's manhood to feel comfortable in one and you know what they say about self-confidence...

Those utili-kilts are growing quite popular among my male and female camping compadres...

There is a new show on PBS on weekends now called Monarch of the Glen; at least one dishy young man goes about in a kilt (he's a hired hand at a big Scottish estate). Yummy.

peg

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 10:47 PM

Ah, that show was on BBC-America last year, Peg. Great show and the second season starts this month! And, I agree about the sexy part.

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: Peg
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 11:51 PM

kat; it is just starting here now from the beginning and I eat that stuff up like it's home-baked cookies. Funny how all these remote Celtic places have suhc attractive interesting people in them ain't it?

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: GUEST,Keevan6
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 12:10 AM

ok......"goin Commando" is the same thing as "regimental" meanin "no undies" i.e. no boxers, briefs, boxer-briefs, panties, panty-hose, or whatever yur furry little minds can come up with.

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 12:40 AM

Yeah, Peg! Wait 'til you see the hunk who comes in later!

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 01:53 AM

Hey Big Mick, I'll wear my kilt this weekend at the Michigan irish Festival if you'll wear yours!

Seamus

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 03:28 AM

Dave---the plaid was part and parcel of the original "kilt". The garment was , they say, donned by laying out the [ 7 yards?] of material on the ground, lying down on it and rolling over two or three times, standing up and throwing the unused length over the shoulder---that final action creating the "forerunner' of the Plaid. As to the "anything underneath" blathers, if ye fancy wearin' something to cover your equipment, go ahead! Ive worn a kilt, on and off [pun time!] for over fifty years, and the handy garment has been used as a kilt [!] a cold-weather cycling cape, a pillow and a handy "courting groundsheet". An' if oney o' youse bare-bummed zealots expect me tae sit up on a stage facin' an audience playin' a squeezebox an' tryin' tae keep ma knees thigither at the same time ye've anither think comin'!

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: smallpiper
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 04:23 AM

Just let it all hang out !!!

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: Mr Happy
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 06:01 AM

Come where the hands are clapping
Come where the toes are tapping
Come where the jocks are strapping
Down in the glen

Land of inclement weather
Land of the prickly heather
So keep your knees together
Scotland the brave!

8-)

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: gnu
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 06:23 AM

Boab... 8 yards of broadcloth was a kilt worn by the Highlanders of Scottei.

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: Peg
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 08:56 AM

My friend David has an authentic kilt and he puts it on that old-fashioned way, by laying it down and rolling in it then adjusting it. He is very good looking and has a great body so when he does this at camp every year we all love to watch!

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: GUEST,Scabby Doug
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 09:18 AM

"Join a Highland regiment, me boy. The kilt is an unrivalled garment for fornication and diarrhoea."

Can't remember whose quote this was, but it's so true...

Cheers

Steven

Subject: RE: Help: Wearing of Kilts
From: MMario
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 09:31 AM

it's possible that usage has changed since the book was published - (it was from the 1800's I remember - pre 1890 at least because I remember it was older then my grandfather)