Acoustic bottleneck blues

Subject: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From:
Date: 30 May 98 - 12:19 AM

Greetings! I am a botleneck blues fan, with no idea where to go. I have the Robert Johnson collection, and a Bukka White tape, but am looking for some slow, gutwrenching stuff. Any ideas? Thanks, Mike

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From:
Date: 30 May 98 - 06:17 AM

There have been a number of threads around this subject, Mike. Do a forum search with the word "bottleneck" and another with the word "delta". That should turn up most of them.

Murray

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From: DWDitty
Date: 30 May 98 - 07:11 AM

I am sure Gene will be responding here, as he is the most enthusiatic of the bunch when it comes to slide. One of the founding fathers is Blind Willie Johnson. Also check out Tampa Red, Blind Willie McTell, Blind Boy Fuller, Robert Wilkins, and Fred McDowell. Some modern players include Ry Cooder, Taj Mahal, John Hammond, Roy Rogers, Sam Mitchell, and John Mooney. Stefan Grossman's Guitar Workshop (973-729-5544) has a catalog full of lessons and vintage footage (including bottleneck).

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From: Mark Brown
Date: 30 May 98 - 01:28 PM

hey mike,

I too am a huge bottleneck fan and have been trying to play for about two years. Also I am a fan of the gutwrenching style!! I would definitely suggest Blind Willie Johnson for that esp. the song "Dark Was The Night Cold Was The Ground" which in my experience is the king of the gutwrenching erie slide guitar pieces. Also in the same vein (because it's mostly based on that song) is Ry Cooder's Paris Texas. (It's actually the soundtrack to a movie of the same title). Also try Ry Cooder's Vigilante Man which is found on his "Into The Purple Valley" album(the rest of the album isn't great but that's just my opinion) Some BEAUTIFUL gutwrenching bottleneck is down by Johnny Winter in the songs "Bladie Mae" and "Dallas" both of which can be found on "Scorchin' Blues" which is a best of Johnny Winter put out on the Roots and Blues series by Columbia Records. In that same Roots and Blues series there is "Slide Guitar:Bottles Knives and Steel" vol. 1 and 2. I recommend them both with the following word of advice:Be Patient. That stuff is old and therefore BADLY recorded. At first I thought, 'that doesn't matter, the good stuff'll shine through'. In some cases that's true but for the most part I didn't realize how much good stuff was there until I had listened to it several times and even more when I tried to play it and heard (sort of) what it was supposed to sound like and appreciated it's complexity. My God am I rambling. Sorry it's just that this is the first thread I've felt qualified to respond to. You see Mike...I was once in your shoes...starting out looking for accoustic slide recordings and thinking, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE MAN!! THERE'S NOTHING OUT THERE!!! There is and frankly two or three years later I'm further but not much further ahead then you are now but if you want some help e-mail me anytime at [e-mail] with questions and advice(remember we're still pretty much on the same level I'm just a little bit cooler than you--just kiding) and search the web for sites. One site I recommend, not only because it is knowledgeable but also sympathetic to our dilema is Brian 'King Bee' Robertson's, The Slide Players. Try browsing a Web searcher for it. If you get stuck the e-mail adress is [e-mail]. I'm shutting up now HAVE FUN!!

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From: Gene E
Date: 30 May 98 - 05:23 PM

Well,

Here I am! Where ever bottleneck is discussed, there will I be.

Mike,

There are lots of gut wrenching recordings and so far all the advice given is great. Check out Fred McDowell is the best! ;}

Gene E

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From: Gene E
Date: 30 May 98 - 05:26 PM

Er, ah,

That's CD Now

Gene E

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 01 Jun 98 - 10:26 AM

If you want to hear a good recent recording of some good slow gutwrenching stuff try either of Corey Harris' CDs on Alligator.

Brian

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From: Jon W.
Date: 01 Jun 98 - 11:54 AM

Hey! You guys forgot Son House! One of the great original bottleneckers from the Delta.

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From: Gene G
Date: 01 Jun 98 - 04:10 PM

Hey,

Here's another gene who plays bottle neck guitar. Actually, I use a Craftsman 18mm Deepsocket as a slide. And it is guaranteed for life.

Gene G

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From:
Date: 01 Jun 98 - 09:09 PM

Not only should one not forget Son House, in my opinion he is the best of them--at least of the first generation.

Murray

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 02 Jun 98 - 08:25 AM

I don't believe that no one's mentioned Charlie Patton yet - he's got to be considered one of the most inventive and skilled bottleneck players. Also, listen to some Kokomo Arnold who's playing had an obvious influence on Robert Johnson.

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From:
Date: 02 Jun 98 - 09:20 PM

Brian, Kokomo Arnold is a new one on me. Can you tell me where I can find some biography/discography on him?

Murray

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From: Gene E
Date: 02 Jun 98 - 11:07 PM

Hello to Gene G, great name!

I have been known to use a 17mm Craftsman Deep socket but I prefer my Jim Dunlap #222 brass slide.

As for first generation greats, I fully agree that Charlie Patton and Son House have been over looked in this discussion and it's a darned shame;}

Gene E, The original Gene type at the Mudcat!

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 03 Jun 98 - 06:13 AM

Murray, Kokomo Arnold (1901-1968) was a left-handed slide guitarist, who played his guitar laying it flat across his lap. There are a number of collections of his work out on various labels: Master of the bottleneck guitar (1987) Kokomo Arnold 1930-1938 (1990) Down and Out Blue (1990) Old Original Kokomo Blues (1997)

He also played with Peetie Wheatstraw and Casey Bill and there are various compilation albums of these collaborations. His influence on Robert Johnson is most obvious on Sagefield Woman Blues, Milkcow Blues and Old Original Kokomo Blues.

Hope that helps

Brian.

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From:
Date: 03 Jun 98 - 08:29 PM

Thanks Brian. I had heard of the "Kokomo Blues", but I didn't know it refered to a person. I will begin to look into him.

Murray

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 04 Jun 98 - 08:30 AM

Murray, The actual song 'Kokomo Blues' was recorded in Indianapolis in June 1928 by Scrapper Blackwell.

Then Jack Kelly recorded 'Ko-Ko-Mo blues' in Aug. 1933.

James 'Kokomo' Arnold recorded Old Original Kokomo Blues (He took the name from a brand of coffee) in Sept. 1934 in Chicago.

Also Freddie Spruell recorded 'Mister Freddie's Kokomo Blues' in Chicago in April 1935.

How's that for blues trivia?!

Brian

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From: Jon W.
Date: 04 Jun 98 - 11:23 AM

Kokomo is a city not far from Indianapolis - I'm pretty sure that's what Scrapper Blackwell was referring to. It's essentially the same song as Robert Johnson's later Sweet Home Chicago.

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From: SumBodhi
Date: 17 Jun 98 - 03:12 PM

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the "Roots of Blues" series on Columbia Records. There are two volumes called The Slide Guitar- Bottles, Knives, and Steel. It's vintage stuff, old recordings but I love

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From: Gene E
Date: 17 Jun 98 - 07:54 PM

I agree S.B.,

The Roots series is where I got my start several years ago. Now I've spent lots of money and effort on my guitars and blues harps.

See more HERE

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From:
Date: 19 Jun 98 - 08:18 PM

Gene, I consider you lucky. Instead of learning to play the blues, I spent my money on more and more records--well, I'm making up for lost time now.
<aphorism>
Better late than never.
<:/aphorism>

Murray

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From: Gene E
Date: 19 Jun 98 - 08:39 PM

Murray,

You were just getting ready! If it's right and when the time's just right the blues'll come to ya.

Actually my standard answer to honey what do you want for your birthday, Father's day . . . is a list of blues CDs to add to my collection.

Thanks again, I feel pretty lucky. Heck we all should, all of ys that have music in our lives.

Gene

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From: Jon W.
Date: 22 Jun 98 - 11:24 AM

I bought an old small plywood faced Stella guitar at a pawnshop a couple of years ago. I meant to use it for camping. It needed some bridge work and I never had it strung until a week ago. When I strung it I realized it has a flat finger board, just right for playing slide. Now if I could just find my slide. Aw, heck, I got a ton of 3/4" copper pipe left over from plumbing, maybe I'll just make one.

I got it tuned in Spanish tuning, and I've been reacquainting myself with Willie Brown's "Future Blues" from Stephan Grossman's "Play Country Blues Guitar" book. So little time, so much to learn...

Jon W.

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From:
Date: 23 Jun 98 - 08:52 PM

<kidding>I ask for a Martin Guitar when my birthday rolls around. (It hasn't worked yet.)</kidding>

Since Jon mentiions the Stella, let me ask a question that seems to generate controversy. Some say the the Stella 12 string guitar that Leadbelly played was a quality guitar and that the line later went down in quality when it was bought up by a large company. My impression is that it has always been a bottom-of-the-line guitar. Anyone know "the truth"?

Murray

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From: Roger Himler
Date: 23 Jun 98 - 09:47 PM

Murray, I've talked to several people about Lead Belly's guitar. As I understand it, the Stella was bought for Lead Belly by one of his admirers in New York. It is currently on display at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland, Ohio, USA.

There is occasional talk of stringing that baby up and inviting several current blues players to give it a whack so to speak and recording the results. This would imply that there is something more to the guitar than just nostalgia.

When I talked to others about duplicating the sound of Lead Belly's it was suggested that one important factor was that the Stella has "ladder-bracing" as opposed to the traditional "cross-bracing" of most of today's guitars. I was given to understand that this would emphasize the midrange tones as opposed to the high's and low's.

I will watch for words from those more knowledgeable than I.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 24 Jun 98 - 05:41 AM

Leadbelly has given two accounts of how he first came to buy a twelve string Stella:

"Well, I used to just have an ordinary guitar. One night I was playin' in a place - one of them sukey-jump places - and people was drinkin' and some was dancin' and it was warm. I was playin' there and one of the strings broke. I jest went on playin', though. Then a pretty girl come along and boy! She was a high-brown. Wow! She came over to where I was sittin' and playin', and she come and leaned down close. Jest then another string broke, but I didn't let on. I jest went on playin'. It was hot and she jest leaned down over my shoulder and pushed against me - you know. And another string broke, but I couldn't stop now. Not no how! So I jest kept on playin', `cause she was nice - fine as wine in summer time. And then you know what? Another string broke, and I jest had one string left. I played that one string `cause I liked that thing. But I made up my mind right then that I'd go out and get me a 12-string guitar"

OR

"I saw one of the old 12-string Stellas sitting in the window of a Dallas store. The year before I'd heard a man play it in one of those medicine shows where they sold a cure-all for fifty cents a bottle."

"The price of the guitar was $12 and I knew I had to have it" He apparently then got work as a farm hand for a week or so to get enough money to buy the instrument.

This was around 1910. Years later in the 1920s and 1930s Stella twelve-strings became favourite guitars with a number of blues artists, including Barbecue Bob (Hicks), his brother Charlie Lincoln, and Blind Willie McTell.

Stellas in general were not very well made guitars, they weren't very durable and the interiors tended to be 'crude and hastily finished'. The exteriors looked good; they were made of Honduran mohogany for the sides and back, and German spruce for the flat top. The tough bridges were made of rosewood, but the fretboard was usually made of birch or maple that was stained or painted black - which eventually caused it to rot.

They were a lot cheaper than Gibsons or Martin, and sounded good for the price, but most of them eventually fell apart and so few survived more than a couple of decades. Leadbelly, apparently,went through several during his career.

There's more information on this in Charles Wolfe and Kip Lornell (1992) 'The Life and Legend of Leadbelly'

I hope that answers a few questions

Brian

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From: Jon W.
Date: 24 Jun 98 - 02:26 PM

Brian's information corresponds with what I've read about the early Stellas. The one I bought is, I'm sure, a much later and inferior guitar. It is a six string. I was mostly attracted to it because it has a tailpiece (I think a tailpiece gives a guitar a nice old-timey feeling) and because it seems to be quite sturdily constructed. I actually had just previously bought at a thrift store an old Kay with a tailpiece, which I traded for the Stella, because the Kay looked very fragile. As I said, I wanted a camping guitar. The sound, of course, leaves a lot to be desired.

Jon W.

Subject: RE: Acoustic bottleneck blues
From:
Date: 24 Jun 98 - 09:16 PM

You are lucky to have all those old cheapo guitars laying around thrift and pawn shops. I went past a pawn shop here a few days ago and there was a basic Sammick for $200. That is about $120 US these days. You can probably get it new for that price--and that was in a pawn shop.

I ran into a cassette put out by Columbia Records called "Leadbelly". In it he plays bottleneck guitar! I have never heard him do that in any other recordings. The cassette comes with no documentation whatsoever. Did he use his 12 string for that? It is quite interesting. The theme of the album is Delta blues in that he either does his version of Delta classics like "Death Letter Blues" or he uses slide techniques on other pieces, including two Blind Lemmon Jefferson songs.

On some he starts out in the Mississippi style, but before the end of the song he is combining slide with Leadbelly barrelhouse. It is impressive.

I would be interested in any information about the album. It is simply called "Leadbelly" and its serial number is CBS PCT30035. I don't see any copyright date. The only descriptive material is the list of songs and the fact that it "includes legendary performances never before released". Songs include CC Rider, Black Snake Moan, Match Box blues, two versions of Roberta, Alberta...

Murray