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BS: Putting our minds and hearts together
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Subject: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: katlaughing Date: 20 Nov 02 - 12:35 PM I am sure some folks are already doing what I am about to propose, that is using our creative minds for some positive imaging for world peace. I know I have been one of the most vocal on some of the political threads, esp. when it comes to the so-called homeland security ones. I do think it is important to stay informed and to be vocal about one's opposition to what may be happening. Be that as it may, I would like to offer this thread as a counter-balance to all of the fear-mongering of our government and our own hashing out of such concerns in the other threads. I'd like to see this one be a place where we can put our minds and hearts together to visualise, sing, pray and/or meditate for peace of all kinds, local, global and all points in between. We do this for healing for one another all of the time as in Kendall's case and others, such as Andres' wife, Graciella, right now, so why not for our own world? Remember mud is thicker than water and we Mudcatters do a grand job when we band together and rise up singing!**BG** So...Let there be peace on earth... and while I sing this beautiful song, I have a wonderful image in my mind of a perfect outcome to the Iraqi-Bush problem; a swift and peaceful resolution and I give thanks for this or something better for the highest good of all concerned. Thanks, kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: Bobert Date: 20 Nov 02 - 12:44 PM Kat: Some beautiful words and thoughts. It is important that those of us in the resistence movement remember the very nature of *peace* and make every effort to create as much peace around us as we possibly can. It is difficult with all the drum pounders but we can not get sucked into *their* games for there is little but hatred and turmoil in their minds and hearts. We will be judged by *or actions*. Peace Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: alanabit Date: 20 Nov 02 - 01:06 PM Yeah. Let's start by killing all the warmongers... Forgive me Kat and Bobert. You are quite right as usual. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: curmudgeon Date: 20 Nov 02 - 01:38 PM "Then let us pray that come it may, (An come it will for a' that) That sense and worth o'er a'the Earth Shall bear the gree foe a' that. For a' that, an' a' that, It's comin' yet for a' that, That man to man the world o'er Shall brothers be for a' that." Robt. Burns |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: katlaughing Date: 20 Nov 02 - 04:19 PM Thanks, Bobert and Tom, esp. for a'that. Alanabit, not sure if that was tongue in cheek or not? I always thought I was more left.:-) Continuing on: one may read Peace news and generally be inspired, imo, by visiting the World Peace site, where they have the universal prayer in over 80 languages. There is also info on Peace Poles including the fact that Jimmy Carter and the Dalai Lama have both dedicated Peace Poles. There are over 200,000 Peace Poles in the world. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: Dead Horse Date: 20 Nov 02 - 04:20 PM Judged by our actions, certainly. But also for our inactions. Thank heavens some of our forefathers decided not to *appease* Hitler anymore, though some folk took a long time to take positive action, time in which many went to the ovens. Do not count me as a war monger, but do not count me among the *peace at any price* brigade, either! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: katlaughing Date: 20 Nov 02 - 04:25 PM I don't think any of us have said that DH. All I was asking was for people to focus their creative energy in imagining peace, i.e. instead of focussing on the warmongering we DO hear constantly in the media, etc. that we turn away for a small time, as often as possible, and give our energies to creating an alternative to what Bush seems hell bent on. Knowing there may be war and concentrating on alternatives are not mutually exclusive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: Dead Horse Date: 21 Nov 02 - 04:58 PM On the contrary, what we DO hear on the media is never-ending pacifists. Wars are always bad, but sometimes it is necessary. If, after the last skirmish in Iraq, we had brought Saddam to book, then this coming unpleasantness might not be needed. But we didn't want to be seen as interfering in their own affairs. And that after bombing the s**t out of 'em. That is a namby-pamby attitude so typical of pacifism. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: GUEST Date: 22 Nov 02 - 10:05 AM If all you ever hear in the media is never-ending pacifists, might I suggest you change your channel from the Fox News station? While some people opposed to the Bush administration's war on terrorism, and possible war on Iraq, are pacifists, most aren't. Nor are those people being interviewed in the media, who are lining up in opposition to the war on Iraq, pacifists. There are, in reality, very few pacifists among anti-war people. Yet, unswerving belief in the folklore of the right, nearly always results in this non-argument. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: katlaughing Date: 22 Nov 02 - 11:27 AM Would you please take the never-ending debate to another thread? I thought I was pretty clear about the purpose of this thread? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: GUEST Date: 22 Nov 02 - 12:47 PM katlaughing, you were perfectly clear about the purpose of the thread. However, it is a bit silly to think you can control thread drift in a forum like this, with so much contentiousness over the war and peace issues, isn't it? Or even control the thread drift on any subject, for that matter? I'm with you, BTW. I think people focusing their intent and their actions on preventing war is the ONLY way we will prevent war. But I disagree that the only we way that is done is by closing our eyes, holding hands, and sending up our prayers while we hum "Let There Be Peace on Earth". C'mon katlaughing, your way isn't the one and only way to peace. And "simply imagining peace" doesn't prevent a war. Action does. Yes, we must be clear in our intent before we take action. We need to plan our actions so that they will have the desired effect. But we don't need to get on your particular peace wagon to do that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: katlaughing Date: 22 Nov 02 - 01:11 PM There is nothing wrong with having one thread which offers a respite from the others. Nothing wrong with taking time out to contemplate something positive. I would suggest you read my words more carefully: I do think it is important to stay informed and to be vocal about one's opposition to what may be happening. Have at it, turn this into another long debate thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: Rustic Rebel Date: 22 Nov 02 - 01:23 PM I believe we DO create our existance through thought, and I think katlaughing is on the right track on trying to change the thought patterns of the communities of peoples as a whole. I say it is almost like a democracy that way, you need more of a positive thought energy flow to outnumber the negative in order for thought process to control the outcome of what happens to our world. Power in numbers so to speak. katlaughing is taking action just by putting this thread out, and asking people to focus their energies on peace because she is putting out the thought, she is therfore creating the action. That's just a little bit of my life philosophy and I'm with you on it katlaughing. Peace, Rustic |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: katlaughing Date: 22 Nov 02 - 01:52 PM Thanks, very much, RR. Well put! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: GUEST Date: 22 Nov 02 - 01:54 PM What I object to is the suggestion that those of us who are doing the work, need katlaughing to tell us we need to "put our minds and hearts together" and "imagine peace" to stop the war on Iraq. Excuse me, but what a fucking insult to those of us who have been doing just that forever, here in Mudcat, and in the 3D world! I don't need to be preached to by katlaughing, while I'm seated in the choirloft, just because she decides to go "new age" political, and then throw a style over substance temper tantrum, when we all refuse to join hands with her. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: Rustic Rebel Date: 22 Nov 02 - 02:10 PM Guest, I don't think you get the idea of the thread. Just because Kat asks for a positive thought sent out doesn't mean she, you, I or anyone is doing anything wrong, by asking. And does not imply at all that you are wrong for you actions. This thread (and I may be speaking for Kat) was not meant for hostility. If you can understand that it will be a better thing. Now DAMN-IT, Peace, Rustic |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: Bobert Date: 22 Nov 02 - 02:35 PM Yeah, GUEST, while I've been very supportive of your contributions on many other threads, I believe you have missed the point here, my friend. As you know from my other postings, I am involved in the resistence movement, but I also recognize the larger need for mankind to tone down and understand the concept of *peace* at the personal level. This *peace* transcends the *anti-war* efforts and makes us better role models for the sons and daughters of the drum beaters and it is those kids that will be carrying on the struggle long after we are gone. There is nothing inherantly wrong in living *peaceful* lives as we take to the streets in resistence. I believe that if you will reread Kat's original posting and give it some thought, I think you may take one step closer to understanding what she, and many others are trying to teach. And Dead Horse, whew, you need get back on your de-programming meds. The pacifist media? Where it at? No matter what channelo I but on all I hear is the steady poundin' of drums. Peace Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: GUEST Date: 22 Nov 02 - 03:29 PM You can all save the warm and fuzzy new age "visualize world peace" admonitions for somebody else. That isn't the point I'm arguing anyway. The point I was arguing was whether katlaughing has a god given right to dictate to others how to post to a thread once it drifts away from the original post to it, as happened when Dead Horse contributed, and I responded. No one has the right to dictate how others respond in threads. They can feel as self-justified as they want to bitch about thread drift, but they don't have the ability to control it, and it is silly to try. My first post to this thread was a response to Dead Horse's claims about media coverage of pacifists. Then katlaughing comes in to throw a hissy fit, saying: "Would you please take the never-ending debate to another thread? I thought I was pretty clear about the purpose of this thread?" Does katlaughing think she is queen of Mudcat, or merely our mother? She was condescending as hell, and it had nothing to do with visualizing whirrled peas, but with katlaughing not getting her way. Gimmee a break. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: katlaughing Date: 22 Nov 02 - 04:43 PM Whatever happened to courtesy and common manners? I asked, I said please. A simple request, no thumbscrews. Take it or leave it, I really don't care, GUEST. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: Bobert Date: 22 Nov 02 - 06:07 PM Sorry, Kat. I tried but you know how GUEST gets now and then. Just has to *win* or *pouts*. But at least his or her head is *usually* on the pro-human side. It just, that GUEST does get, well, cranky at times. Bobert P.S. In the word so DougR, "Get ready to duck, Bobert!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: wysiwyg Date: 22 Nov 02 - 07:05 PM Well, in the Episcopal Church we pray it every week. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: GUEST Date: 22 Nov 02 - 08:49 PM Unless religious services have changed remarkably since I was forced to attend them, all churches pray for it every week. And all synagogues, and all temples... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: Amos Date: 22 Nov 02 - 09:40 PM Guest, I pray for respite from contentiousness and from assertive loud-mouthed sons of bitches. Like the Big Birds in the White House, like the AllaAkbar meatheads over in the Crescent and like the noisome spate of anonymous negativity in this forum. Go work your good in the world, where you aren't apparently afraid to sign it. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: Bobert Date: 22 Nov 02 - 10:46 PM Yo GUEST, I hate to say it because on occasion you bring a lot to this forum, but Amos (sigh) is right. There are times to satnd up and be counted and you, sir or mame, are unwilling. Yeah, you can choose to personalize this like you did on another thread but this ain't about personalizations, it's about having the courage to satnd up and say, "This is what I know. This is what I think. This is what I feel." Your time, GUEST, is running out here in this forum. Are you gonna just "give up* in the spirit of anominity? Yeah, probably.... Bob Harrison Harpers Ferry, WV Alias: Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: GUEST Date: 22 Nov 02 - 10:48 PM Wagons circling alert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: greg stephens Date: 22 Nov 02 - 11:21 PM The trouble is ,katlaughing, your initial suggestion on this thread was fantastic and lovely and I embrace it. but on other threads you attack people whose views I love and admire, though I may disagree with them. And you attack them in personal ways with quite abusive language. And you're actually doing it tonight,simulataneously. I can't put the two things together. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Nov 02 - 11:41 PM Well, let's just all work for peace in the way that we feel is best. As I've said before, BE the change you wish to see in the world. That's my method. If prayer works for you, then pray. If action works for you, take action. The notion of changing other people is always tempting, but changing yourself is the real challenge. Do you feel peaceful? - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: nutty Date: 23 Nov 02 - 02:49 AM I thought about this a while ago and came up with this .............. PEACE IN OUR TIME Peace in our time The politicians said But since that time How many millions dead And when the bombs fall from the sky And when we hear the bullets fly How often will we here the cry For peace in our time Peace in our time Thats what the children heard Peace in our time And they believed the word Yet nations still prepare for war Breaking God and Nature's law How many more will die before There's peace in our time Peace in our tine Thats the dream to hold Peace in our time Before we grow old An end to all hostility So everyone on Earth is free To live their lives in harmony With peace in our time. note ... 'Peace in our time' were the words used by Neville Chamberlaine, the Prime Minister of the UK, on returning from negotiating with Adolf Hitler in 1939. Weeks later Germany invaded Poland and Britain declared war. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: Bobert Date: 23 Nov 02 - 08:38 AM Whew, good. This thread is still alive, Kat! Now you can ignore my PM if you like. I thought that maybe that little rumble that I had with another member last night had killed off the entire thread but, hark... Glad to see it this mornin' 'casue its a *good* thread. Bobert p.s. Thanks, Joe, fir staepping in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: Amos Date: 23 Nov 02 - 01:18 PM What thou lovest well remains, the rest is dross What thou lov'st well shall not be reft from thee What thou lov'st well is thy true heritage Whose world, or mine or theirs or is it of none? First came the seen, then thus the palpable Elysium, though it were in the halls of hell, What thou lovest well is thy true heritage What thou lov'st well shall not be reft from thee (EZRA POUND, PISAN CANTOS, LXXXI) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 23 Nov 02 - 03:51 PM Pause, and reflect in the pond of pastoral sweetness Gently rippling wind sketches new thought on the taut fresh surface Images distort slightly, but retanig their regular flavor, Elastic impressions never far from the clarity we savor Ask for a peacetime, and fools make war in arguement on how to do it Make love at the right time, and only one person helps you get to it Turn to the maker in requesting for the best and right answers And the maker speaks in a language unknown... but often inferrs Retributive often the judgement of the forgotten soul Who transubstantiates good intentions and takes our proper toll And pathetic though the ingrate be, we are simply no better than sh(h)e But attempting good is the beginning of greatness... will you take tea? ttr |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: Dead Horse Date: 23 Nov 02 - 05:20 PM Sorry if I appeared to get on my high horse, but visualising a group of "Earth Goddesses" sitting in a circle, holding hands & thinking peacefull thoughts while evil regimes are trying to dominate this world is just too much for me to stomach. Leaving thread, it's too depressing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: katlaughing Date: 23 Nov 02 - 08:16 PM That's okay, DH, but no one said it had to be THAT kind of visualisation. It could also be a prayer group, etc. Plus, as I said before, nothing is exclusive. Taking action, visualisation, and prayer, etc. can all work together. I posted a wonderful prayer a couple of years ago which my grandfather wrote during WWII when my uncles were all at war. At that time, the entire family was working on the war effort, ins ome capacity. That didn't stop them from praying for peace. I should clarify that I am not some new age (a misnomer if there ever was one!) namby-pamby pollyanna and I don't even have any sand to stick my head in!*bg* PLus, I couldn't contemplate my navel without a mirror unless I suddenly lost weight! I've been vocal all of my life about politics, human rights,etc. from marching in Washington D.C. to being a published columnist. Sorry you found this depressing. Were I you, I'd just change the image.:-) kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: GUEST Date: 24 Nov 02 - 01:13 PM It is my understanding a general consensus was reached among Mudcatters that the Annexe would serve as the place for Mudcat prayer groups, group visualizations and things such as this. With all due respect, in light of that general consensus, why was this thread even started here? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Putting our minds and hearts together From: saulgoldie Date: 24 Nov 02 - 03:05 PM I keep thinking about songs like "Christmas in the Trenches" and "Let the Band Play Dixie" in which song brought opposing parties together, and efforts like Bread and Roses who bring healing song to those who probably have the least of it, yet need it the most. Sometimes war is just inevitable. But it is up to humanity to use force with all possible restraint and to focus more on the connectedness of all humanity and the idea that "we are all in this together". (Who is doing what and for what reasons to help or hinder the effort is another matter, altogether and for another thread, methinks.) If we face other individuals and societies with distrust and hostility, we will inevitably get the same back with all the war we can handle, and more than we probably care to. On a micro scale, raise children with abuse, and you guarantee patricide, matracide and full prisons. But raise them with love and trust and they go forth and "save the world." I'll take the later. It's hard to talk this way without plutzing to connect it with real-world actualities (and there are soooo many other threads about *those*!). So I'll wrap up before I do. But it is irrefutable that the attitudes we send out have a profound affect on those around us, and far beyond. |