Tune Add: Play a piece by the 1st known composer

Subject: Tune Add: Play a piece by the 1st known composer
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 11:36 PM

Recently I brought home a library book about Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, and it had a paragraph about Leonin, a composer who began a new kind of music, a kind which was sung in the cathedral when it was newly- built. So this would have been the late 1000's or the early 1100's. Leonin composed in a radical new style which used two notes at once. (He is sometimes called Leoninus.)

Intrigued, I searched the Internet for a piece by Leonin and found one. It was 88 measures long, but I have edited it and asked Joe Offer to post it to this thread. I hope you will listen to it, download to a music program if you have one and perhaps play it this Christmas season. The piece is in 6/8 time, but that is a modern convention. It doesn't sound anything like a 6/8 piece we would play today, such as a jig. ButI found that if I had the computer play it while I played my recorder along, that I soon got the hang of it.

The net site said that Leonin is the first composer whose identity we know. All compositions before his are anonymous.

I hope that this works and that you enjoy hearing this ancient piece.

---

Still having problems with Mudcat MIDIs. best I can do is temporarily post this as MIDItext.
-Joe Offer-

MIDI file: LEONIN~1.MID

Timebase: 192

Name: leonin
Text: Generated by NoteWorthy Composer
TimeSig: 6/8 24 8
Start
0000 1 57 110 0160 0 57 000 0032 1 57 110 0094 0 57 000 0002 1 55 110 0160 0 55 000 0128 1 59 110 0160 0 59 000 0032 1 62 110 0094 0 62 000 0002 1 60 110 0160 0 60 000 0032 1 62 110 0094 0 62 000 0002 1 59 110 0256 0 59 000 0032 1 57 110 0160 0 57 000 0128 1 59 110 0160 0 59 000 0032 1 62 110 0094 0 62 000 0002 1 60 110 0160 0 60 000 0032 1 62 110 0094 0 62 000 0002 1 59 110 0256 0 59 000 0032 1 55 110 0160 0 55 000 0128 1 59 110 0160 0 59 000 0032 1 62 110 0094 0 62 000 0002 1 62 110 0160 0 62 000 0032 1 60 110 0094 0 60 000 0002 1 62 110 0094 0 62 000 0002 1 60 110 0094 0 60 000 0002 1 59 110 0094 0 59 000 0002 1 57 110 0160 0 57 000 0032 1 57 110 0094 0 57 000 0002 1 53 110 0160 0 53 000 0032 1 57 110 0094 0 57 000 0002 1 55 110 0160 0 55 000 0032 1 55 110 0094 0 55 000 0002 1 53 110 0094 0 53 000 0002 1 52 110 0094 0 52 000 0002 1 53 110 0094 0 53 000 0002 1 57 110 0160 0 57 000 0032 1 57 110 0094 0 57 000 0002 1 53 110 0160 0 53 000 0032 1 50 110 0094 0 50 000 0002 1 52 110 0160 0 52 000 0032 1 53 110 0094 0 53 000 0002 1 55 110 0094 0 55 000 0002 1 53 110 0094 0 53 000 0002 1 52 110 0094 0 52 000 0002 1 50 110 0160 0 50 000 0128 1 53 110 0160 0 53 000 0032 1 52 110 0094 0 52 000 0002 1 53 110 0160 0 53 000 0032 1 55 110 0094 0 55 000 0002 1 57 110 0256 0 57 000 0320 1 59 110 0160 0 59 000 0032 1 57 110 0094 0 57 000 0002 1 57 110 0160 0 57 000 0032 1 55 110 0094 0 55 000 0002 1 57 110 0256 0 57 000 0320 1 57 110 0160 0 57 000 0032 1 57 110 0094 0 57 000 0002 1 55 110 0160 0 55 000 0032 1 55 110 0094 0 55 000 0002 1 53 110 0160 0 53 000 0032 1 53 110 0094 0 53 000 0002 1 52 110 0160 0 52 000 0128 1 55 110 0160 0 55 000 0032 1 55 110 0094 0 55 000 0002 1 53 110 0160 0 53 000 0032 1 53 110 0094 0 53 000 0002 1 52 110 0160 0 52 000 0032 1 52 110 0094 0 52 000 0002 1 50 110 0160 0 50 000 0128 1 53 110 0160 0 53 000 0032 1 53 110 0094 0 53 000 0002 1 52 110 0160 0 52 000 0032 1 52 110 0094 0 52 000 0002 1 50 110 0160 0 50 000 0032 1 50 110 0094 0 50 000 0002 1 48 110 0160 0 48 000 0128 1 55 110 0160 0 55 000 0032 1 53 110 0094 0 53 000 0002 1 52 110 0160 0 52 000 0032 1 55 110 0094 0 55 000 0002 1 53 110 0160 0 53 000 0032 1 52 110 0094 0 52 000 0002 1 50 110 0160 0 50 000 0032 1 53 110 0094 0 53 000 0002 1 52 110 0160 0 52 000 0032 1 50 110 0094 0 50 000 0002 1 48 110 0160 0 48 000 0128 1 55 110 0160 0 55 000 0032 1 53 110 0094 0 53 000 0002 1 52 110 0160 0 52 000 0032 1 57 110 0094 0 57 000 0002 1 55 110 0160 0 55 000 0032 1 53 110 0094 0 53 000 0002 1 52 110 0160 0 52 000 0032 1 50 110 0094 0 50 000 0002 1 53 110 0094 0 53 000 0002 1 53 110 0094 0 53 000 0002 1 52 110 0094 0 52 000 0002 1 50 110 0160 0 50 000
End

ABC format:

X:1
T:leonin
M:6/8
Q:1/4=120
K:C
A,2A,G,3|B,2DC2D|B,3A,3|B,2DC2D|B,3G,3|B,2DD2C|
DCB,A,2A,|F,2A,G,2G,|F,E,F,A,2A,|F,2D,E,2F,|
G,F,E,D,3|F,2E,F,2G,|A,6|B,2A,A,2G,|A,6|A,2A,G,2G,|
F,2F,E,3|G,2G,F,2F,|E,2E,D,3|F,2F,E,2E,|D,2D,C,3|
G,2F,E,2G,|F,2E,D,2F,|E,2D,C,3|G,2F,E,2A,|
G,2F,E,2D,|F,F,E,D,13/8||

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Play a piece by the 1st known composer
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Nov 02 - 12:56 AM

I look forward to hearing this, but surely Hildegard von Bingen would be right up there, too, as she lived about the same time. She also did some unusual things with music, for those times. The site I've linked to says she is the first composer whose biography we know, at least.

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Play a piece by the 1st known compo
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Nov 02 - 10:39 AM

We need to be precise about what is claimed for Leonin. We know music from before then, and we know composers before then. But he is reckoned to be the first composer that we can actually match up with some music.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Play a piece by the 1st known composer
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 30 Nov 02 - 01:13 PM

Hildegard vs. Leonin: step off ten paces, turn and fire! Or am I being anachronistic?

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Play a piece by the 1st known composer
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 Nov 02 - 01:56 PM

Thanks, Guest, guest. I appreciate your support. I also hope the piece shows up pretty soon. Perhaps Joe Offer is off on a Thanksgiving trip and hasn't seen my e-mail yet.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Play a piece by the 1st known composer
From: GUEST,Q (Guest guest)
Date: 30 Nov 02 - 02:18 PM

The Red Byrd Ensemble has recorded some of his music. "Léonin, Magister Leoninus, Sacred Music From the 12th Century." A few other cds are available, one with the Notre Dame organ, but some tracks are not his.
I have a bit of H. v. B., but my interest in choral music is in the later polyphony. I will have to listen to Léin.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Play a piece by the 1st known composer
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Nov 02 - 02:23 PM

leeneia, I meant no disrespect and I AM interested in learning more about Leonin and hearing the piece of music.

You posted: The net site said that Leonin is the first composer whose identity we know. All compositions before his are anonymous.

I just wanted to make sure it was known that Hildegard was not anonymous, having been known in her time, which was slightly before Leonin, as she lived from 1098-1179.

According to one website I found, Leonin was known to have been alive c.1163AD-1190AD. It also said he was the first known significant composer of polyphony "organum". He may also have been the first to use a rhythmic system of two main note values, long and short, and certain standard patterns, usually with groupings of threes. Three was considered the pure number, possibly for the Holy Trinity. Only after time was the number two accepted in music. Leonin is from the Notre Dame school, meaning he lived and worked in Paris at the Notre Dame Cathedral.

Maybe that "first known significant" is what the other website which you quoted from meant?

Both are of interest to me and I do love to hear ancient music.

Oh, I think I found the website which made that claim. It has a wonderful sound file of Leonin's works. A beautiful piece of music. I love medieval music! While we're waiting for Joe, one can access the file by clicking here and scrolling down a ways.

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Play a piece by the 1st known composer
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 30 Nov 02 - 03:06 PM

Leonin made use of the descant, adding to the chant basis. Hildegard composed some unusual material, some quite inventive, leaving scholars uncertain as to how exactly to interpret it. Polyphony seems to have been there in some compositions. Later polyphonists added more "voices," and even gimells, where one "voice" becomes two, and extreme voice ranges, calling for vocalists with skills far beyond what a local group could handle. This was much later; the 16th century seeing a flowering of this kind of choral work.
The singing became so demanding and expensive, with choristers trained to soloist level, and with an expensive master composer and director, that Pope Marcellus among others called for a halt. He said something to the effect that the music was too complex to be understood by the listener, and unsingable by the average choir. Nevertheless, it makes for an amazingly beautiful tapestry of sound when sung by experts such as the Tallis Scholars and The Sixteen, among others.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Play a piece by the 1st known composer
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 11:31 AM

Gee, I guess David's Psalms and Solomon's Song of Songs don't count.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Play a piece by the 1st known compo
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 05:01 PM

No, David and Solomon dont count. unfortunately, nobody wrote the tunes down. Wouldnt it be great if they had?

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Play a piece by the 1st known composer
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 11:03 PM

Joe Offer has posted the piece above, but it's not in the handy MIDIclick format. We shall see.

I've bought the Red Byrd CD with Leonin's music. I like it. (Got it on Amazon.)

kat, I'm not surprised that Hildegard got there first. Girls rule!

Q, you said "Hildegard composed some unusual material, some quite inventive, leaving scholars uncertain as to how exactly to interpret it." Don't you think that any music this old, all of which lacks time signatures, bar lines, and tempo indications (among other things)is of uncertain interpretation?

For example, I have seen reproductions of the MS of the Cantigas de Santa Maria, (12th Century Spanish) and I think that anyone who claims to be playing one of them is taking a real risk. Not that it isn't great fun to play what purports to be a Cantiga today. (There are some interesting Cantiga sites on the web.)

Anyway, you certainly know a lot about ancient music. I never even heard of a gimell before.

Interesting thing: the liner notes to my new CD of Perotin (Leonin's student) quotes an anonymous Englishman who was a contemporary of theirs. The Englishman is known as "Anonymous IV." Light dawneth.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Play a piece by the 1st known composer
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 11:35 PM

Too true! as the Antipodeans say. A lot is interpretation. The Cantigas, as done by Jordi Savall's group, and others I have yet to investigate, have a lot of scholarship behind them. They are presented well on some of the recordings, but I don't think any of them would label their efforts as the one true interpretation.
I really don't know ancient music. Just fell in love with the sound of the old polyphony and have extended to a tiny bit of the earlier material.

Subject: RE: Tune Add: Play a piece by the 1st known composer
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 03:52 PM

re: my comments and Greg's riposte.

The music was not written down but has been passed down by oral tradition. If you were to go to a cantorial library, it would be available to use. This creates the possibility that the music is folk but not the words.