advice for beginning accordion

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 01:05 AM

I seem to remember being told a while ago in teh chat room that there is a Mudcatter (or someone heard by a mudcatter) that does do "Smoke on the Water" on Piano Accordion - would be interested in trying it myself, but I don't play by ear, but was trained to play by memory after seeing the sheet music....

I would hardly call it a piece for 'beginning accordion' though...

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 06:59 PM

Sorry, didn't know that first one was a duffer. Try JC's search, but I suspect Bee Flat is a swine to play in. Bung it into G or C and make life for your right hand a bit easier.

Smoke on the Water isn't a smash hit accordion tune, if you mean the Purple dirge.

Dignify your request by joining as a member and I'd be quite happy to be of more help.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: GUEST,happy accordionist
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 05:03 PM

oh skipjack you really seem to know alot about the accordion , thanks for the help.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Dec 04 - 05:59 AM

Oh SK8, you're such a tease...

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 07:23 PM

beer barrel polka

Smoke on the water

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: buttonbox
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 06:53 PM

new comprehensive tutor book for BC 2 row button box coming next year 2005 - will also include comprehensive tuition for 3 row BCC# box which is a natural progression for 2 row players wanting a full accordion sound. Expressions of interest to me via mudcat personal message so that you can be sent more info nearer to publication

thanks bb

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Peter T.
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 09:56 AM

Welcome!!!! There is a small cadre of accordionists here.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: GUEST,happy new accordianist
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 08:14 AM

Hello out this is my first posting I picked up a nice piano tipe accordian at a yard sale,I guess I,am looking for to fast of self gratification   but finding sheet music or tab for beer barrel polka, and the intro for smoke on the water would be a riot.   thanks

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 09:51 AM

May I humbly suggest
Technique: Piano Accordion for The Recycled Muso

Robin

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: jets
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 07:52 PM

I feel bad evrytime I go to the bank to cash the check that I recieved for playing the accordion at some venue,for I know ,from all that has been said here:That people do not like to hear the accordion. Makes me wonder what I am being paid for. This summer I went to the bank 25 times. I do not get checks when I am busking.so we can not count that. Joe The Old Port Busker.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: vectis
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 07:36 PM

Everything YOU play is in the key of loud DH

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Dead Horse
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 08:27 AM

What's all this about small boxes being quieter? I just got me a Cajun tit noir an' it sure aint drowned out by no three-row-star-spangled half ton job, not when all the stops are out anyway. The whole point of the box being loud is so you can here it on a crowded dance floor. Can't do that with no high falutin' whistle!!!
God's synthesiser rules, O.K.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: COINWOLF
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 06:37 PM

My wife wants me to sell my accordion because of my dreadful attempts at playing, she says surprisingly that the singing is Ok if I stand in a big enough field!

Is this encouragement or what!

Her flute playing is wonderful, (she is standing looking over my shoulder).

Can some agony aunt advise?

I have to admit that humming to the accordion is a very disturbing experience, but if I sing at the same time the dog starts howling!

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Dec 02 - 11:39 PM

Peter, I have difficulty going from one size accordion to another. My guess is that it's because I started playing the accordion rather late in life. When you can't see your fingers or what they're doing, you have to rely on muscle memory. I'm guessing it takes longer to train muscle memory for a task that's learned later in life than it does for something that's learned when we are younger. I've met accordionists who don't have any trouble changing sizes, but most of them have been playing since they were young.

Skipjack may be an exception to this. I think he started playing accordion in his thirties, and he seems to be able to switch sizes without too much difficulty, but he's also a very talented musician, something I can't really say about myself.

That's my theory, anyway.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: BusbitterfraeScotland
Date: 08 Dec 02 - 08:27 PM

DONT
because people will start making jokes about the accordion.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Amos
Date: 08 Dec 02 - 08:22 PM

The mind accomodates the change in short order when you make a comparable shift between a wide-necked Spanish and a thin-necked steel guitar, or even a ukelele -- it seems to be a different set of parameters than those used to describe the actual playing, so using a smaller set of spaces physically quickly becomes as natural as the larger. I expect keyboards are similar.

A

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Peter T.
Date: 08 Dec 02 - 07:47 PM

Does anyone who plays accordion and piano who might be here find any difficulty shifting backwards and forwards to piano? I notice that the accordion piano keys are smaller. This must have some effect on muscle memory for octaves, 6ths, etc. Or does the mind compensate?
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: vectis
Date: 08 Dec 02 - 07:24 PM

On a serious note. Pick the thing up and play it DAILY even for a short time. You improve rapidly if you do.
I agree with Declan that smaller boxes are quieter and therefore marginally more popular with other musicians. You are going to have to live with the prejudice of others against accordions because of the inconsiderate players who do drown out a roomful of instruments because they don't realise/care/think that they could be quieter.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Bernard
Date: 08 Dec 02 - 05:07 PM

One reason why I rarely visit Mudcat these days is the excessive attempts at 'points scoring' by people who obviously have nothing better to do.

If this were a face-to-face conversation between people, the so-called jokers would be in hospital by now...

I'm no spoilsport, I enjoy a good joke as much as anyone else. However, when it is done specifically to annoy, it is no longer a joke, but a taunt - and, therefore, unacceptable here.

If you can't understand that, tough!

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Dec 02 - 02:27 PM

Hi J Shand jnr

Yeah, I think it's important to be able to take a joke. I even played along a bit in the beginning of this thread. However, I think the amount of joking on this thread goes beyond what is considered acceptable in the Mudcat on a serious music thread. I'm sure you can understand that.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: GUEST,J Shand jnr
Date: 07 Dec 02 - 02:15 PM

Peter T be interesting, make a new point or piss off.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Peter T.
Date: 07 Dec 02 - 02:12 PM

I'm with CarolC, it is getting tiresome. It can't be stopped, but please, you are not breaking new witty ground here. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: GUEST,J Shand jnr
Date: 07 Dec 02 - 02:03 PM

Come on CarolC surely we can all take a joke. Unfortunately most of the jokes in this thread are old and whiskery and have been applied to most instruments we play. Good luck to Jeff - learning any instrument is not as easy as people pretend.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Dec 02 - 12:21 PM

I was hoping I wouldn't feel compelled to do this, but I guess I do. I know you jokers think you're being funny, but Mudcat etiquette dictates that it is bad form to post silliness on a serious music thread. Although some of you don't think accordions are serious music, the fact is that they are. And believe it or not, these jokes are not new to us. We've heard them all many times before.

This is a serious music thread, so please take the jokes elsewhere.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: banjoman
Date: 07 Dec 02 - 07:18 AM

DON'T - Whats the difference between a an accordion player and a pieceof cardboard used to block up a broken window?

The cardboard is a substitite - the accordion player is a real pa(i)ne(e)

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Declan
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 10:42 AM

If you didn't already have an instrument, my first piece of advice would be to get a smaller box. Its difficult not to drown out everyone else with a 120 Bass. They are inherently loud, but the more subtle players can get away with it.

Some people worth listening to, if your interested in Irish or celtic music are Phil Cunningham, Karen Tweed, Seamus Mehan (I don't know that he's widely recorded but look for The Temple House Ceili Band). I've heard Mr Pirt who has posted above a few times playing with his band 422 and he's definitely another one for this list.

Try to keep your touch as light as possible and use the bass sparingly. When I was in an accordion band we were thought to use the bass to bang out the rhythm oom-pah-pah style and I think that sounds pretty awful now.

I own a 72 Bass Paolo Soprani myself, although I haven't played it for years.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: GUEST,SHIFTER
Date: 06 Dec 02 - 10:18 AM

...DON'T BLOODYWELL BOTHER, THEY'RE TOO DAMNED NOISY AND DROWN OUT ALL THE OTHER MUSICIANS!!!

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Mark Clark
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 09:49 PM

This Hohner Ariette 3002 looks like an approximation of the one Nathan Abshire played. Hohner says it's tuned to C, I know Nathan played in more keys than one—probably using the stops—and I was thinking his had more than two bass bars but it's been a long time and I really don't know anything at all about accordions.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Mark Clark
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 08:49 PM

I used to think I didn't like accordions … that is until I heard (and saw) Nathan Abshire playing with the Balfa Brothers. Boy did I become an accordian fan. There just wasn't any happier music than that.

My advice is trade your piano accordion in for a French (German, actually) accordian like the one Nathan played and get yourself down to Louisiana post haste.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: vectis
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 08:22 PM

Learn to play without actually moving the bellows. It makes you a more popular player. I know......
I play accordion (ducking and running like Hell from the Stanley knives)

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Bernard
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 05:07 PM

Aahh... what does he know? He's a mere lad...!!

Somebody hold him down whilst I stamp all over his fingers... ;o>

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Peter T.
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 08:48 AM

Whatever Sam says, do!!! yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: GUEST,Sam Pirt
Date: 05 Dec 02 - 06:09 AM

Hi All

Well with so much advice theres not much more to add, would I would say is when playing, practicing or performing think LIGHT and ACCURATE. It will take time to get it accurate but thats why you practice, and if you play accurately you will play well and also the notes you want to play.

After a while it will feel natural then you can start to experiment with the rhythms, tempo and chords of each hand, then it gets VERY exciting!!!

Cheers, Sam

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 07:11 AM

DONT

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 07:06 AM

One bit of advice - make sure your life insurance is up to date !

Any night at Orpington Folk Club you can hear the duelling Accordions of Ivan North and Ted Handley. They definitely sod up the argument that that we're trying to put over in the anti-PEL campaign, that accoustic music is quiet and doesn't cause a public nuisance.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Boab
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 03:00 AM

I actually picked up an accordion with the intention of singing with it. Now I hold the tune better if I AM singing with it! Being an "ear" player right from the start, it made for some rather unusual effects, though---I think it was John Kirkpatrick who christened me "the f-sharp man"! It just happened to be the key which was comfortable with my voice. As the years passed I had to branch out a bit, though, in order to accomodate others.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Bernard
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 08:56 PM

Just a thought - one way I control the volume on the bass of my box is to play staccato (as if the keys are so hot I can't hold them down) if I want to quieten it, and hold them down longer if I need more volume. As I play mostly for Morris (he's a nice chap, y'know!), it's important that it doesn't sound 'mushy'.

Quite often smaller accordions are bass-heavy, which is odd when you consider they are intended for beginners!

My big box has five reeds per single note in the bass, with couplers allowing the deep bass to be de-selected, or all but the two highest to be de-selected. Very handy!

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 08:55 PM

Thanks Bernard!!!

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Bernard
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 08:38 PM

WOOPS!! Got me minors mixed up!! Sorree!!

A / /|A / /|D / /|A / /|

A / /|A / /|A / /|E / /|

Bm / /|F#m / /|D / /|E / /|

A / /|E / /|A / D|A / /|
That'll learn me to check before I post!!
(Lancashire expression...!)

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Bernard
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 08:26 PM

Thanks, vectis! I have a recording of Iain McLachlan playing it, and he does it both ways (if you'll pardon the expression!). As he wrote it, he's entitled, I suppose!!

Greg - you try putting my box on a campfire, and I'll have yer guts for garters!! ;o>

I play it in the key of A major, Carol, and the chords work out (ignoring where I played a G chord by mistake on the recording, but it sounded clever, so I left it in!), starting at the accompanied bit:

A / /|A / /|D / /|A / /|

A / /|A / /|A / /|E / /|

F#m / /|C#m / /|D / /|E / /|

A / /|E / /|A / D|A / /|

If the above doesn't make sense, the chord name or forward slash each count as one beat, in 3/4 time (3 beats per bar). Well I understand it!!

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: vectis
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 05:34 PM

Nice Bernard. I play the same tune on a Sonola musette but as a waltz instead of a lament.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 05:22 PM

The ideal instrument for the campfire.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 01:48 PM

Hey Bernard! I love that piece. About a year ago I tried to learn it by listening to that sound sample on your site. But I couldn't figure out the chords. Then I found the dots for it somewhere on-line, but the sheet music didn't have the chords. Would you be willing to give me the chords that you use?

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Bernard
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 01:41 PM

You can hear me play here...

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Bernard
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 01:21 PM

Mmmm...

Another good 'rule' is not to change bellows direction with any keys held down.

I play and sing at the same time...

Changing bellows direction depends on a lot of things...

If the bellows are leaky (not a lot of resistance when no keys are pressed), you will have to change direction more often - best to get the thing fixed!

If you are playing quietly, you will not need to change direction as often as when playing loudly - it's better to practice quietly, but this can be a problem when you have to play loudly!

The number of keys being pressed (and the number of reeds in use if the instrument has register stops) directly affects the bellows movement.


The easiest way to get the feel of things is to play waltzes - time it thus, just playing the bass (1 = 'fundamental', 2 and 3 are the chord):

>> 1 - 2 - 3   1 - 2 - 3 (change)

<< 1 - 2 - 3   1 - 2 - 3 (change)

etc.


When you improve, try:

>> 1 - 2 - 3   1 - 2 - 3   1 - 2 - 3   1 - 2 - 3 (change)

<< 1 - 2 - 3   1 - 2 - 3   1 - 2 - 3   1 - 2 - 3 (change)

etc.


Then try a tune - Amazing Grace, Plaisir d'Amour, Michael Turner's Waltz, and so on, usuing the same rules.

I'm fortunate - my big Swiss Hohner 120 bass Musette is really airtight, and practically plays itself... it's just so flamin' heavy!!

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 12:27 PM

This is good time of year to "throw away the books" for a few weeks.

The accordian is a grand instrument to "play by ear."

Start with a simple Christmas tune...beginning on C...spend a couple hours and get one melody down KEYBOARD side ONLY....say, "Silent Night" or "Away in a Manager."

NOW - slowly add the bass-buttons....its simple....because you only need to "feel the chord change." You will begin with the C button chord, and then it will always be either the F, or G, or C ....from then on...ending on C.

OK now you have one Christmas song...do the same with another tune...this time is will be easier. Do it a with a third tune....and now you are ready to go out caroling.

HAVE FUN....It is IMPORTANT that you start early to wheen yourself away from written music....You arn't planning on going into competition....

Have a blessed holiday season.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 11:58 AM

Peter, you are now officially DANGEROUS!

My suggestion is hunt down some recordings of folks who use the accordion as ACCOMPANIMENT. Simple accompaniment at first...how bout Sis Cunningham from the Almanac Singers?

The style (if it can be called that) that I used to accompany myself on piano can work well. It's actually "backwards" from the way most folks would learn a keyboard instrument. Just involves a Bass-chord approach.

Rick

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: Peter T.
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 11:51 AM

From my two days experience with one of these beasts, it seems to me that the best way to sing if you are not very good is to use the bass chords only, and forget about the piano notes. Once you get better, I would assume that you can use the piano keys to chord as well. Generally, I would assume that it is like accompanying a singer with a piano -- don't play the straight melody, go for chords or simple patterns unless the singer doesn't know the tune, and go for grace notes in the silences between phrases, otherwise stay well back.

But what do I know.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: GUEST,coinwolf
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 11:20 AM

Any hints on how to sing, while playing an accordion?

Breathing in and out with the accordion is all very well, but how do you sing at the same time?

Best after you have had a few,

you then have an excuse for it!

Subject: RE: advice for beginning accordion
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 11:00 AM

The accordion is the revenge of the concertina. Not all free reed instruments can be readily drowned out. Play loud and play proud--and be prepared to play alone.