BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!

Subject: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 01:08 PM

Not one that adult diapers will handle. My roof is leaking - the roof on the house I just bought! When I had the house inspected less than a month ago, I was told to watch for leakage in the seams between the old roof and the new one on an added four season porch. Didn't have to watch for long. The first melting snow has left a spreading stain in the bedroom closet. Any suggestions??? Their is still a pile of snow on the roof.

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: open mike
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 01:15 PM

MOVE YOUR CLOTHES OUT OF THE CLOSET!
GET A BUCKET!!

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 01:19 PM

Sounds like someone needs to take a tarp up there for the time being. It might be a simple matter of fixing some flashing between the two sections of roof (once the weather turns good enough to make roof work reasonable!) Good luck!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: MMario
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 01:21 PM

sometimes removing the snow (if possible) stops the leak (as the weight goes off the leak "seals")

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 01:32 PM

Did you purchase one of those repair guarantee packages in which the seller agrees to pay for that package of insurance for the first year or so and which covers this kind of repair?

Otherwise, I'd say same as the others: get the snow off of the roof, get a tarp up there, empty your closet AND get one of those small buckets of silica gel (I think that's what it is) which gets rid of dampness in such spaces. I think one brand name is RID-X? Hardware stores have it. Or, there is a new kitty litter which is made of it and safe around the critters. Also, you could focus a heater with fan or just a fan in the closet to dry it out.

Call Bob Vila! **BG**

Good luck!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: mg
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 01:48 PM

I had a similar situation minus the snow and a good bucket of tar worked quite well...it was a 1 story roof where it was though and flat. mg

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: Amos
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 02:22 PM

You can buy five gallon drums of liquid tarring solution at most large home improvement centers which can be laid on even when there is residual wetness, as a temporary patch along the leaking seam, assuming you know for sure that's where the leak starts. I would think the seller might have to take some responsibility but that's hard to pin down sometimes, unless they bought you a year of warranty service on the house.

A

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 08:28 PM

First, I have to climb out the second story window, shovel off the frozen snow, then assess the damage and repair it. I don't think so. Screw it! I'll just get the clothes out of the closet and wait for balmy weather. We are expecting rain and sleet for New Year's. That should help. If this were a toaster, I would throw it away and get a new one.

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: Tweed
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 08:41 PM

No, fix it quick Sins. If you don't you'll be fixing the drywall or plaster on your ceiling and your trusses will start to rot. Get some wet or dry roof patch from Home Depot. Go up in your attic and locate as near as possible the leak and drive a nail through it so you'll know where it is on the outside. Remember that water runs downhill and look above the apparent breach for signs of the trickle. Tar that baby up real good and thorough and mebbe it'll last you til spring thaw. Don't let it go for long or you'll need to fix a lot more than the leak and be even more pissed off. The stuff doesn't cost much and will set up even if it's somewhat moist. Just smear it in with a vengeance with a small mason's trowell and don't forget yer gloves!

Yerz,
Tweed

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: gnu
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 08:43 PM

Calcium chloride in panty hose at four to five foot spacings will create drains for the water which is "Ice Damming". You can shovel if it will help, but, the ice is the problem and you don't want to try to remove the ice because of the possibility of damage to the roofing. I can be of more assistance if you describe the problem in detail.... I are a enginear.

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 08:52 PM

Too late for action given that the rain and sleet will begin tonight. I hope you managed to get some of the snow off before it creates an ice dam for the rain that will be falling. Ugh!

Maybe I should shovel the snow off my own porch tonight...

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 08:52 PM

Calcium chloride in my pantihose??? I don't think so, gnu.

The previous owners added a four season room to the back of the housde. The leak is at the seam between the original house and the addition. So far, it is only appearing in the bedroom closet, directly below the seam. I will probably have a handyman in to look at it. Or maybe I will simply have a temper tantrum and hack the addition off the house, hang plastic curtains for protection, and wait until spring.

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: gnu
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 08:53 PM

..."ice is MOST LIKEY the problem"... Obviously, getting the snow off is the first step as it will allow you to deal with the underlying problem, but providing a way for the water to get out is paramount and salt in pantyhose is the easiest way. As for the permanent solution, I can walk you through whatever you need to do. Whatever you do, DO NOT apply tar (roofing cement, wet patch, etc).

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: gnu
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 08:55 PM

Is the addition heated ?

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 09:01 PM

Hi Sins...Who's the nearest macho Mudcatter near ya? Personally if I were in yer hood, I'd give it a look-see.....but the commute would be hell!

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 09:18 PM

Thanks, Rick. I have a handyman who does first rate work at reasonable prices. The plan was for him to inspect the roof in the spring. If I can manage to dislodge the ice, I will. We expect rain tomotrrow into Wednesday. That will help.

gnu - salt in your pantihose is a line I have never heard before. Is that Canadian??? Thanks for the help. I will let you know what happens.

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 08:38 AM

Sinsull-

How about Kendall? He's handy and experienced; I seem to remember he used to shingle the rum seller's roof.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 10:39 AM

Sinsull is a babe!

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: Willie-O
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 11:00 AM

It's obvious it wasn't flashed properly. Assuming its a shingled roof, roof patch stuff can fix some leaks but it can't make water go uphill. The solution undoubtedly involves ripping some shingles off and fixing the problem from the roof deck up. You don't say whether it's an intersection of two roofs, or a roof line abutting a wall. If it's two roofs intersecting, the wet patch stuff might help once you get a day or two where it's practical to apply it. It'll be really ugly, though, unless you're putting it on black shingles, which will make it merely unattractive to the informed eye.

Good luck. Hate finding these things out now.

W-O

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 11:44 AM

I vote for the handyman now. (:>

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 11:55 AM

Good news - at least temporarily. The leak has stopped. The spot is drying. It is an ice buildup that is causing the problem. The ice is melting and the seam is clear. Neither Kendall nor I am climbing out the window to slide around on an icy roof and investigate the problem further. With rain tonight,I can get Dan,the Man here on Friday to take a look. Thanks for all the input.

This is no where near as bad as the series of leaks I had in my NYC apartment. Ground floor unit. Every time an apartment over me had a problem, the water showed up in my place. The worst - I had just gotten the latest settlement from the insurance company, re-papered and painted both baths, and...within 2 days of each other both were destroyed AND my electricity shorted out.

I can handle a little mold in a closet.

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: Barry Finn
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 03:04 PM

Hi Sinsull, before you go messing with what might be a perfectly fine roof find out the cause. Did it leak when it rained or only when it rains & the wind blows from one direction or when the snow/ice sat on your roof & the outside temp was not high enough to cause any of it to melt. If this is the case you probably in need of more insulation in the attic & vents at your eaves (lower roof edge) & ridge vents (peak of roof) you might also need an ice & water shield which means the removal of 3 ft. of shingles along the eave or against any rising wall (1 1/2 on the roof & 1 1/2 up the wall) where you'd normaly find step flashing. Does the leak run down or within a wall) any structural wall If you'd like to e-mail me (or call, ask & I'll pm my tele#) any info (pictures too if possible) you have I'll help with what I can. Mary feel free to make use of me this has been my trade for 30 yrs.
Barry

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: Barry Finn
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 03:06 PM

Sounding more like an ice dam. DO NOT get on the roof. Barry

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: MMario
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 03:08 PM

he know what he's talking about!

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 04:19 PM

Maine is notorious for Ice damming on roofs; it never ceases to amaze me at how these city-slick archetects come up here and build flat or shallow roofed buildings, which do nothing but leak like a seive despite all (expensive) efforts to shore them up.

One modern innovation that really helps is a roofing product affectionately called "Bitch-O-thane" by those who use it; it's like massive flypaper, and more than one Carpenter has gotten trapped in it while trying to lay it on a roof. If you end up re-roofing, it's the way to go. Surely Barry is familiar with the stuff.

Should your handy-guy ever be out of town, one of our reenacting buddies does that sort of thing and lives in the area. He's even been to a couple of our Chanty-Hoots.

And thanks for your help Sat. getting "China Seas moved".

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: gnu
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 04:27 PM

You'd better take Barry's advice as he has been in the roofing trade for 30 years. I only have 27 years experience in investigating why guys with thirty years expeience still can't install a roof system correctly. What's your problem with salt and pantyhose ? It will temporarily solve your problem and won't cause damage to the roof.

In any case, I am available to discuss roofing, ventilation of the roof (which is the root of the problem), secondary protection through flashing, eave protection, or whatever.... but I don't like pissing contests, so perhaps you should not get your pantyhose in a knot and follow the advice offered by others.

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: gnu
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 05:13 PM

Gee... I just read my post and BOY, does that sound pissy ! Excuse me, but I think the booze from the New Year's office party really did a number on me. Guess it's been a bad day. My apologies to Barry and to you. Perhaps I should talk to you all next year when I am sober.

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 11:28 PM

Gnu, until I read the descriptions of what an ice dam looks like and how it works, I couldn't figure out how salt in pantyhouse could work. But it makes sense now. Sounds quite ingenious, actually.

SRS (who has a fairly steep roof, even down here in Texas, where we don't get ice dams)

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 12:31 AM

gnu - I was joking that your suggestion about salt in my pantihose sounded like a line I could expect to hear in a singles bar. Haven't worn the damn things in over a year anyway...might as well use them for something useful. Wonder what the neighbors will say when they see them flying around the roof? I am new to the neighborhood, you know.

I did take a flashlight and crawl around in the eves looking for signs of leaks or rotting wood. Founs only minimum water staining. This did start with the Christmas Day snowstorm and did not show in the torrential rains just a few weeks ago. So I agree - ice dam. DAMN! Should have swept the snow off when I could. Fiddle-dee-dee. Dan can think about that tomorrow.

Happy New Year, all. And thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 11:53 AM

Sinsull, some of the local hardware stores might carry what's called a snow rake. It's has a long, very long handle with a flat piece of aluminum maybe 1/8" thich & 4"x24" at the end which once you reach the roof with it you drag off the snow (won't work on ice, youi gotta get it before that). You only have to reach 3'(3' because of the shingles width the water will flow under your shingles & into the house-the ice dam stops here) beyond the (not the overhanging eave) the outside wall (this wall is the limit of your heat source that'll melt the snow/ice). The snow rakes aren't hard to handle only awkward. I'm pretty sure I'll be going to the shanty session in Portsmouth if youi can bring some pictures. If you happen to take pictures take some of the eave, the underside of the eave (where there should be eave vents), the peak of the roof & any walls or or valleys in the area of the leak.


Hi Gnu, no offence taken, sounds like your New Year got of to a good start.


Barry

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: Bluesmike
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 11:47 PM

Sell it and move to Australia- we haven't had rain for years.
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 11:52 AM

Ironic - Maine has been facing a drought as well. Leave it to me to end it.

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 10:21 AM

Update:
The inspector concurred with using calcium chloride on the roof. Looks very strange to have stuffed pantihose sitting up there.

The DAMN roof rake broke before I even got to use it but not before I put on a show for the neighbors - slipping on the ice with 25' of pole in my hands near three windows. I am not mechanically inclined.

Lastly, I fell on my ass in the driveway while waving to a neighbor. They must think I drink a lot. Wonder what they are making of the pantihose on the roof?

Conclusion: this house hates me. I had a long talk with it last night. I think we have come to a truce. We'll see. It's snowing again.

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: kendall
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 10:45 AM

I expect that the 4 cats havn't gone un noticed by the neighbors either.

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: Tinker
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 11:34 AM

Sinsull I keep reading this thread filled with trepedation. My almost 100 year old Victorian has a Very High and extremely steep slate roof of Pennsylvania Slate. (Pennsylvaia slate has a life expectancy of about 75 years, do the math) But it's still holding on.... And I finally found some wonderful Irish slate men who come in to replace the few that fall each year. But one of these days....

But I doubt the house hates you, I think it's just testing you. It's the classic kid ploy for those they truely love. " But will you still love me if I do this.....?"

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: Hollowfox
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 11:42 AM

Be patient with the house, darlin'. You know how a cat hisses at a new arrival, then ignores it, then accepts it, then takes naps with it? You're the new cat. Or perhaps the problem(s) make the house like the cat that bites you because it's hurt. 'Course, it's hard to bundle the house off to the vet... still the house will realize that you'e trying to cure its ills. Best of luck.

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 12:55 PM

I concur with Tinker and Hollowfox. I adopted a house that sat empty for 18 months, and before that hadn't been updated in about 15 years. It was at one time a very pampered and thorougly live-in house (including extensive gardens and fruit trees in the back yard--all gone now). I was the equivalent of the new cat owner who takes it straight to the vet for SEVERAL major surgeries all at once. Remodeling kitchen and baths, ripping out carpeting, building a new garage, replacing the patio cover. But this house has settled into a very comfortable space, cool in the summer and warm in the winter. Gardens are happy growing here, and the cats love all of the windows to sun themselves in. The period of adjustment may vary, but your house will soon understand that what looks undignified leads to greater comfort. Kind of like using a neti pot to soothe your sinuses. Looks really odd, but you just gotta do it.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: SINSULL's sprung a leak!!!
From: Hrothgar
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 02:50 AM

At least you don't have to sleep on the wet spot.