BS: America Send Us Your Sons!

Subject: BS: America Send Us Your Sons!
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 11:18 AM

From last night's "Washington Week" to AlterNet, the discussion is now beginning over the Congressional Black Caucus' call for reinstatement of the military draft to fight the Bush wars.

From AlterNet:

Bring Back the Draft
Posted by Lakshmi on January 3, 2003 @ 10:51AM

Leading members of the Black Caucus in Congress are calling for the reinstatement of a nationwide military draft. Their argument: minorities make up a disproportionate percent of combat troops. In other words, it's time for the rich white kids to pay the price for Bush's foreign policy.

Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich.) said, "(O)nce the conscription process for service in the military becomes universal and mandatory for all those who meet the criteria . . . it removes the long-held stigma that people of color and persons from low-income backgrounds are disproportionately killed and injured while serving as ground troops on the front line." Conyers and fellow Dem Charlie Rangel plan to introduce legislation reinstituting the draft as early as next week.

Subject: RE: BS: America Send Us Your Sons!
From: Barry Finn
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 01:51 PM

Out of the combined House & Senate only 1 has a son (didn't hear about daughters) serving in the armed forces. Anyone remember the count from Viet Nam (the last time it was used) & if the poor became the grunts? Does war have to be declared in order to reinstute the draft & if it does, what does that mean for the "war on terrorism" & if war is not decleared in the case of Korea & it is against Iraq deos that mean the drafties only get to serve on one front & not 2 & who's going to the one front & who's going to both. I hope this issue backfires & brings more opposition the Bush War Movement. Barry

Subject: RE: BS: America Send Us Your Sons!
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 03:11 PM

Almost all male U.S. citizens and male aliens living in the U.S. are required to register with Selective Service. Upon turning 18, they have 30 days to register with the SS, including those who would claim Conscientious Objector status in the event of being called up during a draft.

Reinstituting the draft requires legislative action by the Congress, and implementation by the President to reinstate a draft in an emergency.

The Congressional Black Caucus announced it's intention to begin that process as early as next week.

Subject: RE: BS: America Send Us Your Sons!
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 03:15 PM

I live quite close to the Canadian border.

Subject: RE: BS: America Send Us Your Sons!
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 03:17 PM

Thanks for the tip, Mary!! If I were eighteen I would come acourtin' in a heartbeat!! :>)

A

Subject: RE: BS: America Send Us Your Sons!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 03:27 PM

I doubt you've much to worry about. Bush and his friends may be pretty stupid, but I can't see them being that stupid. Much more likely to rely on aerial bombardment from a safe height as a way of keeping down the (American) casualties. And when it comes to an army of occupation, it'll be other countries providing the troops.

Unless it all goes pear-shaped, in which case I would anticipate they'd be pulling out rapidly, rather than getting bogged down in another lengthy Asian war on the ground.

Subject: RE: BS: America Send Us Your Sons!
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 03:29 PM

After Viet Nam, I would have no qualms about being part of an underground railroad to escape the draft. Of course, this is an open forum and the mailman is probably taking notes...better shut up now.

Subject: RE: BS: America Send Us Your Sons!
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 03:30 PM

From MSNBC:

NEW YORK, Dec. 31— Rep. Charles Rangel, a veteran of the Korean War, says he plans to introduce legislation to resume the military draft in the event of a war against Iraq. In an opinion piece published in Tuesday's editions of The New York Times, the Democrat from New York said he would ask Congress next week to support his proposal.RANGEL SAID the prospect of a draft would make Congress less likely to support a war.
       "I believe that if those calling for war knew their children were more likely to be required to serve — and to be placed in harm's way — there would be more caution and a greater willingness to work with the international community in dealing with Iraq," Rangel wrote.
       Military service should be a "shared sacrifice" asked of all able young Americans, he said, noting that minorities make up a "disproportionate number" of enlisted members of the military.   
       "Service in our nation's armed forces is no longer a common experience," said Rangel, who voted against the congressional resolution authorizing President Bush to use force against Iraq.
       Rangel said his legislation would require "alternative national service" for people who are physically unable to serve and for those who refuse to serve for "reasons of conscience."
       President Bush has said he doesn't intend to revive the draft, which ended in 1973.

Subject: RE: BS: America Send Us Your Sons!
From: mack/misophist
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 09:16 PM

Those who will not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. In my day we had the draft. The number of whites was somewhat higher, but not greatly so. It's amazing how many ways there are to avoid active duty. If your family's REALLY important, you can get a great record and still avoid combat. It ain't who ya know.....

Subject: RE: BS: America Send Us Your Sons!
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jan 03 - 09:30 PM

Reinstating the draft would all but sink the Bush ship of war.

Passive masses of sheeple who now accept the endless war speechs by Bush would start to mumble, grumble and perhaps dare to dissent.

Subject: RE: BS: America Send Us Your Sons!
From: DougR
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 05:44 PM

If that legislation is introduced, I doubt it gets out of committee.

Every young person in America has the opportunity to serve in the armed forces. They just have to volunteer.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: America Send Us Your Sons!
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 03 - 05:54 PM

"Reinstating the draft would all but sink the Bush ship of war."

That is a large part of Rangel's strategy for introducing it.

"If that legislation is introduced, I doubt it gets out of committee."

That would depend upon the committee, and who has the controlling votes on it. Actually, it never has to make it out of committee. The Congressional Black Caucus is gonna get some this session, because of the Trent Lott debacle.   What better way to get a new debate going about the looming war, than to start a public debate on who the stiffs are who will fight it, eh? Why, people could even bring up the record of George W's Draft Dodgin' Days and kick it around. A survey could be done of the number of Congressional and Bush administration Republicans with children currently defending the security of the US of A.

Yes indeed, it could be a hot time in the old town if that debate about who is going to fight the war, and who is going to stay cozy back home flares up this winter. As will any unilateral action by the Bush administration without UN backing.

Subject: RE: BS: America Send Us Your Sons!
From: JudeL
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 07:47 AM

One of the scary bits of all this , is the possibility of it escalating into something where conscription of our young people is not just an academic debate but a reality that we then have to deal with. I live in the UK and at the moment, the idea of conscription seems reasonably remote, but..... as a mother of three sons who are 16, 18 and 20 I cannot help but be aware of the possibility and at times be very worried about the future.

Subject: RE: BS: America Send Us Your Sons!
From: JudeL
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 07:52 AM

The song "Mothers, Daughters, Wives" keeps playing in the back of my mind and I want to scream to these warmongering politicians , wake up , this isn't a game , these are real people .

Subject: RE: BS: America Send Us Your Sons!
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 08:00 AM

I wouldn't worry too much about your sons being conscripted though. There are enough people who will say no for the govenment to be powerless to do such a thing

Subject: RE: BS: America Send Us Your Sons!
From: JudeL
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 08:16 AM

As things stand at the moment , that is true, but if things escalate who knows what will happen. If someone had said to you 20 years ago or even 10 that a labour goverment would be advocating private health care and elitist policies which rather than remove tuition fees for universities wants to raise them for certain universities making them even more exclusive than they are now you would not have believed it likely, unfortunately this is what is happening. Governments have a nasty way of justifying almost anything they want to do.

Subject: RE: BS: America Send Us Your Sons!
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 08:46 AM

The draft isn't necessarily a bad thing. I went to Vietnam as a junior Captain, and most of my artillery unit was composed of draftees, many of whom had opted to remain in the Army after their mandatory two years had expired. Their backgrounds covered the entire spectrum of America, politically, racially and economically. The same was true of the officers, from the junior lieutenants to the colonel commanding, and almost all of them were graduates of various ROTC programs. (BTW, did you know that the University of California at Berkeley commissioned more officers each year of the Vietman era, army, navy, air force and marines, than did any one of the military acadamies?) My opinion is that today's military would benefit from some of this diversity.

Subject: RE: BS: America Send Us Your Sons!
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 10:46 AM

Well, danged if this ain't a toughie! First of all, whereas I understand the purpose of the Black caucus's stategy here in bringing about debate on who gets to get killed, I would hate to see the draft have life breathed back into it. It was horrific during Vietnam and would be again. The rich folks were able to get their kids either deferred or in positions in the military that were *safe*.

Secondly, if the drafted does come about, my son is coming to live with this his Uncle Little Hawk. No two ways about it! Hey, if the Iraq war had even a sliver of justifictaion it might be different. But I'm not going to lety my kid get his head blown off so the Bush's head can get all swelled up thinking mhe *big and bad*. He is neither. All he is is a little, dishonest coward who stuck his tail between his legs and ran like a scared dog when it was his turn to step forward...

Thirdly, if they are goona draft the deferments should be tied to the econmic needs of the families of the draft *pool*, meaning thar those folks in the bottom 50% of the ladder would be deferred thus exposing the kids from the top half...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: America Send Us Your Sons!
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 11:28 AM

Canada is not a sanctuary anymore. After the Viet Nam war the US and canadian officials set down a reciprocal agreement that will return those who choose to head North in avoidance of the draft. Least that is what my old memory recalls.

I'd suggest Australia -

And I support the draft option. 100% I do. No exceptions either. Not for school, money, kids, mental or physical injuries, nothing. If you can't go into the military then there should be an alternate place to go - like VA hospitals or some other public source of service. And the draft should not be just in time of war - but all of the time. It might help rekindle the sense of community this country used to have.

Just my .02 worth

Steve