Re-Imagining Ireland

Subject: Re-Imagining Ireland
From: UB Ed
Date: 08 Jan 03 - 12:14 PM

Here's a link to information on what appears to be a FANTASTIC program from the University of Virginia:

Click here

Ed

Subject: RE: Re-Imagining Ireland
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 09:20 AM

Lots of profs!

Subject: RE: Re-Imagining Ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 09:35 AM

Well, I've just read the entire website, and I still can't figure out what the purpose of this thing is, beyond a free trip to the States, with the built-in opportunity for the Irish to pontificate for the Americans.

What does Ireland need to be "re-imagined" for, and even if it did need "re-imagining" why the hell would Irish people come the States to do it?

Oh yes, the free academic junket circuit.

No thank you.

Subject: RE: Re-Imagining Ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 10:28 AM

I also find it telling, in a chilling way, that despite the emphasis on migrations from Ireland to the US, that there is no discussion of the Ulster Scots legacy in the US slave trade, despite the conference being held at the University of Virginia.

That is just the sort of selective cultural amnesia among the Irish I find very off-putting.

Subject: RE: Re-Imagining Ireland
From: pattyClink
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 11:11 AM

Geez, we thought the Elvis conference at Ole Miss was kind of useless, but this is really a contender.

Subject: RE: Re-Imagining Ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 12:01 PM

Thanks pattyClink. It's nice to have someone have a look and agree with my "WHAAA?" I note that some of the infamous Irish scheduled to pontificate here, are some of the worst intellectual boors and snobs in Ireland.

Subject: RE: Re-Imagining Ireland
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 12:22 PM

We do tend to spend too much time picking the green fluff from our navels, but that's understandable for a country which has only achieved statehood (and even that incomplete) within the lifetime of many still living.

When organised in the US, this kind of event - apart from the intellectual and cultural stimulation which it brings, and I note some outstandingly interesting names among the speakers listed - also plays a valuable role in a process which has been going on for much of the last thirty years at the instigation of the Irish Government: redirecting the interest and enthusiasm of sympathetic Americans away from ill-informed (and thus understandable) support for the "armed struggle" towards a more enlightened understanding of the reality of modern Ireland north and south. The NI peace is still very fragile, and that work must continue. It also provides an oppourtunity for the kind of political/business networking which has led to the US investment in Ireland which, for better or worse, largely fed the "celtic tiger".

America is moreover a mirror in which Ireland has long viewed itself, and the preservation and revival of both folksong and traditional instrumental music in Ireland throughout the 20th Century owes much to the respect with which it was treated in the US.

Subject: RE: Re-Imagining Ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 12:29 PM

Ah, grand. It's an Irish government sponsored propaganda program for the stooopid 'Merkens, then?

Subject: RE: Re-Imagining Ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 12:33 PM

And actually, the more I think about it, the more I think you Irish need to stay home and work the Troubles out amongst yerselves, and quit trying to drag us Yanks into it, and blaming us for everything you've been doing wrong yerselves for the last 30 odd years.

Bloody cheek.

Subject: RE: Re-Imagining Ireland
From: Maryrrf
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 01:44 PM

It never ceases to amaze me that a post which was meant just to provide information about an event in which Mudcatters might or might not be interested in provokes abuse and sarcasm.

Subject: RE: Re-Imagining Ireland
From: UB Ed
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 01:51 PM

Oh...

I thought it looked like another good opportunity for this stupid American to better my understanding of Irish history and its impact on current Irish culture and economy.

My interest grew from the folk songs of Ireland and an attempt to get the history straight required review of several different histories. As the "victor" generally gets to do the writing, it seemed this would be yet another and fresh perspective.

There is a section on the Scot Irish and Ulster Scots, but I can't say if they'll get into the slave trade. Guest, would you be so kind to direct me to information on the role my ancestors played in the slave trade? Perhaps I could study up on that before the conference...

Ed

Subject: RE: Re-Imagining Ireland
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 02:34 PM

"Bloody cheek"

Look chum, we are a forum o folkies OK, we sing anti War songs - sleep all day and drink scrumpy so go someplace else where your own kind live ...hows about Belfast or Bradford or ... oh heck go boil yer head...

Subject: RE: Re-Imagining Ireland
From: pattyClink
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 02:35 PM

Oh piffle, Mary. Yes, it was a good post to inform people of a happening. It was also about to slide away into nothingness because there were no replies, because nobody could think of anything good to say about it. So Guest makes some accurate remarks, and presto, the thread is alivelonger, which allows more people to see it. And some benighted academic who actually wants to attend the thing will know about it. So here's thanks to the slammers, good job!

Subject: RE: Re-Imagining Ireland
From: UB Ed
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 02:50 PM

piffle? Is that one of the topics I learn more about?

Subject: RE: Re-Imagining Ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 03:05 PM

Everyone is free to think whatever they want about the conference, and express their opinions there. Why Maryrrf, if we think the thing looks like a stinker, wouldn't we say so? Some of us actually speak from experience with these things...

Ed, there are several areas of American history you need to investigate regarding the Scots or Scotch Irish (as they are called by American historians) or the Ulster Scots (as they are called by British and Irish historians). The Atlantic slave trade, British North American immigration history, "cracker" culture in the American South, the formation of the Know Nothings and the KKK, for starters.

There is also a lot of history of the Scots Irish on the American frontier, and their role in the displacement of native peoples and the fighting of the so-called "Indian wars". It is a complex migration history, usually begins in Pennsylvania, then moves south and westward.

As to the Scots Irish & the state of Virginia's role in the slave trade, well...that is probably more than you can reasonably research before May.

Subject: RE: Re-Imagining Ireland
From: Maryrrf
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 03:18 PM

I wouldn't think one need be a "benighted academic" to attend the program. There are some excellent musicians who have decided to take part in this event - Solas, Green Fields of America, Cherish the Ladies, John Campbell, Len Graham, Padraigin Ni Uallachain, Tommy Sands, Mick Maloney and Andy Irvine, for example. These individuals are far from intellectual snobs and boors - they are some of the finest exponents of traditional Irish music in the world. It is to the program's credit that they have chosen to present such luminaries as John Campbell, Len Graham, Padraigin Ni Uallachain et al - these singers in particular have remained entirely faithful to tradition and have NEVER gone commercial - indeed they are not very well known outside their native Ulster except by serious devotees of traditional Irish music. There are dance, theater and cinematic presentations as well. This program WOULD certainly be of interest to musicians, and it doesn't appear to be at all "sectarian" in its outlook, nor snobbish. It isn't even as if they left out the Ulster Scots - there is quite a bit devoted to them. Whether or not their involvement in the slave trade will be brought up is not mentioned, but I can assure you that the majority of Ulster Scots who settled in Virginia were not slave traders but small farmers and tradesmen. I don't want to get into a big argument with anybody but I just can't understand what it is about this conference that caused such a backlash. Seriously, can't we cultivate a more positive attitude on Mudcat?

Subject: RE: Re-Imagining Ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 03 - 03:33 PM

There have been about a hundred or so of these conferences across the US in the past decade or so Maryrrf. You are right about the musicians, they are all excellent. There are some other interesting people on the bill too.

But the stated purpose of this conference is so obtuse, it looks like a nothing more than preening session for academics in front of the camera (let us not forget, they are making documentary and writing a book about themselves at this conference) and a captive, almost exclusively Irish American audience. I have no interest in being the audience for a discussion of their self-absorbed, didactic "Irish identity" issues, nor listening to them blame Up the 'RA Americans for the Troubles.

Spare me.

Subject: RE: Re-Imagining Ireland
From: UB Ed
Date: 12 Jan 03 - 11:15 PM

Poor guest and the academia angst.

Perhaps I'll learn the proper way to invoke "Pog Mo Thoin' if I go to the conference.

In the meantime, the site has been updated for registration, fees and volunteer opportunities.

Ed