Origins: trad jazz arrangements

Subject: Origins: trad jazz arrangements
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 02:01 PM

Does anyone know how the different parts of a trad jazz band are arranged? is there a specific way that it is done (i.e written in thirds etc.) Any help will be gratefully recieved.
   Thank you for any help given.
    Pete.

Subject: RE: Origins: trad jazz arrangements
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 02:47 PM

There are different configurations for the New Orleans marching band. Often saxophones are used as well as the traditional clarinet, trumpet and trombone configurations. In the earlier forms, the most recorded has been with banjo accompaniment. There was the outdoor parade style of trad jazz and the indoor variety with piano, guitar or banjo, sometimes violin, drums and the usual clarinet, trumpet and trombone and occasional saxophone. Both musical forms were used for dancing. The marching bands had the "second line" whereby the listeners could march alongside the musicians or dance. The indoor variety were sponsored by whore houses..one notably Lulu Whites in the Storyville District of New Orleans named after Alderman Story and was closed down by the Navy in 1913(?).

To answer the question, the trombone plays a tenor line that employs a lot of dominant sevenths. The clarinet, thirds and the trumpet, melody line but these are not hard and fast rules. The banjo plays mostly chunk chunk on the beat. The piano plays a kind of stride stsyle and very important is the New Orleans press roll on the drums. Zutty Singleton, Barbarin, and others play in that style.

The trumpet takes the lead (melody). The clarinet fills with obligato lines interweaving and the trombone, a tenor "descant", in the traditional style not too much going on but punctuating the rhythm with growls, smears and strong attacks. Often, the band will play together in a chordal style which has been worked out in advance as an arrangement. A model would be the "Tin Roof Blues" (not an original New Orleans tune but adapted from an older blues) where the clarinet plays the third, trumpet, root and bone, flatted-seventh.

The so-called dixieland style taken from the first recording of jazzs by the Original Dixieland Jass Band in 1914(?) was not in the strictest sense a traditional New Orleans jazz band but an adaptation and popularization set the model with trumpet on the melody, clarinet above and trombone below. They did not use a banjo but a piano and drums. The New Orleans Rhythm Kings eventually recorded with banjo using somewhat the same "front line".

This is probably more than you needed to know but a listen to these bands would give you an idea on how dixieland units sound.

Frank

Subject: RE: Origins: trad jazz arrangements
From: M.Ted
Date: 14 Jan 03 - 02:48 PM

Don't use the term "trad jazz" in the US, so could you be more specific as to what sound you want to create?

Subject: RE: Origins: trad jazz arrangements
From: Richie
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 12:23 AM

I've done jazz (ragtime) arrangements for marching band. I need more info about they instrumentation and style of the arrangement(s) you plan.

-Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: trad jazz arrangements
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 02:40 AM

The term "Trad Jazz" refers to the dixieland/ new orleans style of jazz. I actuaaly want to arrange some of the old tunes for two/Three guitars but in the proper traditional style. I can only find a handful of tunes though. Are there any good places I can find written melody's for some more tunes?
Thanks for your help so far.
    Pete.

Subject: RE: Origins: trad jazz arrangements
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 07:37 AM

A net search for +trad+jazz+midi (or +"trad jazz"+midi if you prefer) will turn up a lot of midi arrangements (eg
Traditional Jazz Midi Files). If you have a notation package or a sequencer with notation facility, you can import these and see the arrangements they use (if you like them). (I've been using Finale Guitar recently. It's a fraction of the price of the full Finale package and despite it's name is a full general purpose notation package and has virtually every facility you'll want - only curious omission for a guitar package is lack of string indicators (numbers in circles) in the fonts, but you can create your own or download free fonts with those in).

Mick

Subject: RE: Origins: trad jazz arrangements
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 08:16 AM

(That last post was me too).

There are plenty of books on jazz arranging too. If you do a net search on "jazz arranging" you'll find plenty of references (and also online material eg Jazz Arranging Tutorial, where you'll also find a bibliography page too; several of the books have information online if you want to look).

Gunther Schuller's Early Jazz - Its Roots and Musical Development also has some examples of what you want, but they're spread a bit thinly throughout the book.

Mick

Subject: RE: Origins: trad jazz arrangements
From: Richie
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 09:00 AM

There's lots of info on Dixieland jazz and arranging:
Click here

If you are just doing two guitars, one can play the melody and the other chords. A good jazz fakebook will do.

-Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: trad jazz arrangements
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 03:16 PM

cheers guys thanks for the help!!

Subject: RE: Origins: trad jazz arrangements
From: M.Ted
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 03:27 PM

Banjo tends to be more part of Dixieland or of traditional New Orleans Jazz than guitar--My guess is that you'd like you'd to play the older novelty stuff and standards, and there are several guitar styles that you can draw from: Django-Hot Club sort of stuff, Nick Lucas type chord melody stuff(a la Tiptoe thru the Tulips), the Eddie Lang/Joe Venuti sort of stuff, and the Dick McDonough/Carl Kress duets, which laid out they way that guitarists played forever after--

The key to all this stuff is to simply work out of a chord/melody lead, played over solid rhythm guitar, playing whatever dance beat is appropriate to the tune your doing--You then can break into any type of part that you want at the appropriate place in the tune--

It is often appropriate to use some sort of moving bass line as part of the rhythm--often moving the way that Frank describes the trombone part--you can give this part to a third guitarist-

With three guitars, you can also have the lead play the clarinet obligato(again, as per Frank, above)--one of the guitars can also play the chord blocks that horns would play--

When you work with a guitar duet or trio, it is often helpful to cover the lead with an electric guitar and the rhythm with an acoustic guitar--

Also note that, as daunting as Django's solo style may seem, the real trick to making the music work is in getting the rhythm guitar part right,It generally was generally played by the frequently overlooked Joseph Reinhardt--

Subject: RE: Origins: trad jazz arrangements
From: CraigS
Date: 15 Jan 03 - 04:43 PM

Just a footnote: What is referred to as Trad Jazz in GB falls into two distinct camps. In the main, the Chicago style dominates, where after playing the melody a couple of times ensemble, the front line and piano take turns to solo before returning to the main theme again. The true New Orleans style, sometimes referred to as Creole Jazz, requires much more effort as the band plays ensemble a lot more.
While there may be formal arrangements, usually the band improvise their lines from experience. This mode of playing tends to break down as the number of players increases, and for more than eight players a band tends to need arrangements to avoid tonal dissonances (there's a polite phrase!) - below that number, there is no need for arrangements if the players are accustomed to the style.

Subject: RE: Origins: trad jazz arrangements
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 16 Jan 03 - 03:04 AM

Cheers guys. M_TED I play gypsy jazz with my music partner. His old recording/ music partner worked with Grappelli. I was wondering how to set up the various lines of music that happen simultaneously within what the Brits call Trad Jazz. Once again thank you all for your help!!