Lyr Req: Youghal Harbour + Road to Youghal

Subject: G'day Youghal
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 07 Jul 98 - 03:16 AM

G'day all you wonderful experts on Irish songs that so deftly fielded the details - and geography - of Boulavogue.

I am after words to 2 related songs; 'Youghal Harbour' and 'The Road to Youghal'. My reasons follow (at great length!)

Waiting with bated (well ... ) breath,

Bob Bolton

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I moved this message here from another thread on the same topic.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: Lyr Add: ROAD TO YOUGHAL and MORETON BAY
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 08 Jul 98 - 07:14 PM

OK, I'll admit my previous thread name was a bit too obscure: - G'day Youghal required Australian Idiom plus Irish Gaelic pronunciation!

Anyway, I was inspired by the wonderful experts on Irish songs that so deftly fielded the details - and geography - of Boulavogue.

I am after words to 2 related songs; 'Youghal Harbour' and 'The Road to Youghal'. My reasons follow (at great length!)

I was set by the Boulavogue thread toward other versions and variants on the same tune ('Youghal Harbour'). Here in Australia we sing a convict song "Moreton Bay". The original poem was by 'Frank the Poet', an Irish convict transported in 1832. Many of Frank's poems went off and became songs (including the ancestor of all those versions of "The Wild Colonial Boy").

In 1952 the folklorist John Manifold put together a "singer's text" from a number of fragments of Frank's sardonically named 'A Convict's Lament for the Death of Captain Logan' and (presumably having some clue to the tune) set it to 'Youghal Harbour', the tune used for 'Boulavogue'. Some years later (` 1960)a complete song was learned from a rural worker in Victoria, Simon MacDonald. He had learned the song from an uncle, many decades before and, indeed, used a variant of the 'Youghal Harbour' tune.

This tune is more "jiggy" in nature than the dignified 'Youghal Harbour' of 'Boulavogue' and Manifold's version of 'Moreton Bay'. It reminds me of a song I heard Vin Garbutt sing about 15 years ago - 'The Road to Youghal'. This has a more sprightly pace, suiting its saucy words but the tune is quite like Simon McDonald's.

The real trouble, for me, is that careful re-listening to all these tunes has whetted my appetite and I would like to:

a) sing 'The Road to Youghal' - but there are 2 or 3 words I can't make out on my tape recording of the concert ... and I don't have the song on any of my Vin Garbutt vinyl.

b) learn the old words to 'Youghal Harbour' so that I can compare them with the later songs and study the changes and relationships. I know that 'Youghal Harbour' was described by Mayhew, in his seminal (1850 - 1860) studies of the London poor as the most popular tune used by 'Ballad Chaunters', who sang from the broadsheets that they hawked and I feel it is important to the history and formation of Australian traditions.

Waiting with bated (well ... ) breath,

Bob Bolton

Subject: Lyr Add: THE ROAD TO YOUGHAL and MORETON BAY
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 08 Jul 98 - 07:44 PM

G'day again,

After I (re-)sent the thread under a less pun strewn title, it occurred to me that I should at least let you see what I have in my hand, especially since none of these traditional songs appear in the database (at least, i can't find them).

For the Vin Garbutt song 'Road to Youghal'(?), I have almost all the words and the few I can't make out I have placed in brackets.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

THE ROAD TO YOUGHAL
Presumably Irish Traditional
As sung by Vin Garbutt

As I rode to Youghal, last Sunday morning,
A maiden passed me on the road along,
Her cheeks did glow like the rose at dawning,
Her voice did ring like a fairy song.
Me arms around her I'm greatly daring,
I begged a kiss, ere she went away.
Said she; "No! Stop, for me coat you're tearin'
And what, young man, would your dear wife say?"

"Ah faith," said I, "but I'm never married,
I'm just a young lad of twenty-three,
I had some plans, but they all miscarried,
So come and settle down along with me.
All that I own is for you to share
... I've got food aplenty and clothes galore,
So tend with me and we'll (thrice) to Youghal and
You'll never want for a thing no more.

"Kind sir," said she, "I'll be not returning,
I've just departed from Youghal this day,
I've left my home, aye, with anger burning,
And not a one was there to say me nay.
To me a tinkerman, I'll go me own way
And on me travels, I will now begin.
I'm just a young girl, who's sad and lonely
And on the roadway to Cappoquin.

I'll sit beside you, your grief to lighten,
I'll put me arm around your waist (astore?),
And in a while, she began to brighten,
With hugs and kisses and the devil knows more.
For an hour and a half, I contrived to warm her,
I then departed for Youghal again.
"Goodbye," says I, "me pleasant charmer."
I left her walking on to Cappoquin.

MORETON BAY
(John Manifold version)

One Sunday morning as I went walking,
By Brisbane Waters I chanced to stray,
I heard a prisoner his fate bewailing,
As on the sunny riverbanks he lay.
I am a native of Erin's Island,
And banished now from my native shore,
They tore me from my aged parents
And from the maiden whom I do adore.

I've been a prisoner at Port Macquarie,
At Norfolk Island and Emu Plains.
At Castle Hill and at cursed Toongabbie,
At all those settlements I've worked in chains.
But of all places of condemnation,
And penal stations of New South Wales,
To Moreton Bay I have found no equal,
Excessive tyranny each day prevails.

For three long years I was beastly treated,
And heavy irons on my legs I wore;
My back with flogging is lacerated
And often painted with my crimson gore.
And many a man from downright starvation
Lies mouldering now underneath the clay,
And Captain Logan he had us mangled
At the triangles of Moreton Bay.

Like the Egyptians and ancient Hebrews
We were oppressed under Logan's yoke,
Till a native black lying there in ambush
Did give our tyrant his mortal stroke.
My fellow prisoners be exhilarated
That all such monsters such a death must find,
And when from bondage we are extricated,
Our former sufferings shall fade from mind.

I will keep this down to only one volume: if anyone is interested I will also post the variant lyrics from Simon MacDonald, but not this time around. (Translation: I need to find the file with the words - not type them from what is left of my memory.)

Subject: RE: Lyrics Wanted: Youghal Harbour / Road to ~
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jul 98 - 03:56 AM

From another thread: Thread #57817   Message #911294
Posted By: Malcolm Douglas
16-Mar-03 - 12:45 PM
Thread Name: Req: a couple of songs and a tune!
Subject: RE: Req: a couple of songs and a tune!

The song is usually called Youghal Harbour, and that isn't its tune, I'm afraid. In fact, Healy printed it as My Sunday Morning Maiden; evidently Vin changed the title, hence the confusion with the Road to Youghal reel. The story varies rather among traditional and broadside versions. I don't have the Healy book, but Colm O Lochlainn (Irish Street Ballads, 1939) prints a set which, though rather different in text (taken from a broadside), has virtually the same tune, albeit in a rhythm different from the Garbutt arrangement. It's associated, in slightly different forms, with a number of other songs, too, such as The Streets of Derry, The Galway Shawl and Boulavogue.

X:1
T:Youghal Harbour
S:Colm O Lochlainn
B:Irish Street Ballads, 1939
N:Roud 2734
L:1/8
Q:1/4=100
M:3/4
K:F
F|F C F2 A c|f e d2 (fd)|
c A F2 (GA)|G F D3 (D/E/)|F C F2 (Ac)|
f e d2 (fd)|c A (A3/2G/) F G|F F F3 c|
c A c2 d e|f e d2 f d|c A F2 G A|
G F D3 E|F C F2 A c|
f e d2 f d|c A (A3/2G/) F G|F F F3|]


There are a number of broadside editions at  Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads:

Youghall Harbour

Number 2734 in the Roud Folk Song Index.

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Here's the Traditional Ballad Index entry on this song:

Youghall Harbour

DESCRIPTION: The singer meets a beautiful girl as he walks toward Youghall. He asks a kiss; she refuses, explaining that her former lover has driven her from Youghall. She will have no more to do with men. He says his intentions are honorable
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1901 (O'Conor); the "Answers to Youghall Harbour" date to before 1825
KEYWORDS: courting beauty rejection
FOUND IN: Ireland
REFERENCES (3 citations):
SHenry H503, p. 273, "Youghall Harbour" (1 text, 1 tune)
O'Conor, p. 95, "Yougall Harbor" (1 text)
ADDITIONAL: Kathleen Hoagland, editor, One Thousand Years of Irish Poetry (New York, 1947), pp. 198-199, "Youghall Harbour" (1 text, listed as a translation by Samuel Ferguson)
Roud #2734
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "Answer to Youghal Harbour"
cf. "Foot and Mouth Disease" (tune)
ALTERNATE TITLES:
Youghal Harbour
Yougal Harbour
NOTES [202 words]: The versions of Youghall Harbour are so varied that I think they should be considered at least two ballads. [Though Roud lumps them. - RBW] Examples of "the other Youghall Harbors":
OLochlainn 8 and Bodleian, Harding B 28(20), "Answer to Youghall Harbour," W. Armstrong (Liverpool), 1820-1824; also Harding B 11(2180), 2806 b.9(227), 2806 b.11(205), Harding B 25(2128), Firth b.27(11/12) View 1 of 2 [partly illegible], 2806 c.15(163), 2806 c.15(17), 2806 b.11(204), Harding B 19(3), "Youghal Harbour" ("As I roved out on a summer's morning") in which Nancy/Mary of Cappoquin has the singer's baby ["A darling baby for you I am rearing"] and is deserted by him twice. [This is in the Index as "Answer to Youghal Harbour."]
Bodleian, Harding B 25(2126), "Answer to Youghall Harbour," Angus (Newcastle), 1774-1825 in which the singer considers leaving "the fair maid of Caperqueen" at the altar;
Bodleian, Harding B 28(20), "Youghall Harbour" ("In Youghall harbour, on a summer's morning"), W. Armstrong (Liverpool), 1820-1824; also Harding B 11(4287), "Youghall Harbour" in which the singer is led to the altar and is sometimes exposed as a rake. This may just be an extension of "Answer to Youghall Harbour." - BS
File: HHH503

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Youghall Harbour (II)

DESCRIPTION: The singer meets a girl like "the Queen of May." He seduces her after going "to a director" when she insists on "performance." But he values "neither Priest nor Deacon nor yet yon fair maid of Capperquin" and gains "the maiden flower of this silly female"
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: before 1825 (broadside, Bodleian Harding B 28(20))
KEYWORDS: seduction virginity rake
FOUND IN: Ireland
Roud #2734
RECORDINGS:
Robert Cinnamond, "Youghal Harbour" (on IRRCinnamond03)
BROADSIDES:
Bodleian, Harding B 28(20), "Youghall Harbour" ("In Youghall harbour, on a summer's morning"), W. Armstrong (Liverpool), 1820-1824; also Harding B 11(4287), "Youghall Harbour"
NOTES [77 words]: Listening to a traditional version on IRRCinnamond03, which is very close to broadside Bodleian Harding B 28(20) "Youghall Harbour," finally convinced me that this should be yet another "Youghall Hartbour" ballad (linked, as it is, by Roud to two others). This seems a much more likely prequel than "Youghall Harbour(I)" to "Answer to Youghal Harbour"; note that Armstrong printed both "Youghall Harbour (II)" and "Answer to Youghall Harbour" on the same sheet. - BS
File: RcYoHa02

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Subject: RE: Lyrics Wanted: Youghal Harbour / Road to ~
From: Martin Ryan.
Date: 11 Jul 98 - 06:39 PM

Interesting! I'll have a look.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyrics Wanted: Youghal Harbour / Road to ~
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 11 Jul 98 - 07:10 PM

"Astore" in the last verse is fine - its a tranliteration of a Gaelic expression meaning "darling" or thereabouts!

There's a version in O'Lochlainn's "Irish Street Ballads", taken, I think, from an old ballad sheet. Its fairly close to what you have above - but Garbutt (or whoever) has removed a few Irish placenames - for clarity of a sort, no doubt!

On the other: nothing in O'Lochlainn helps but you couild try "attend with me and we'll drive to .... etc"

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyrics Wanted: Youghal Harbour / Road to ~
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 12 Jul 98 - 07:32 PM

G'day Martin,

I appreciate the info on Road to Youghal. I was sure I was hearing right on the 'astore' but Gaelic is too many generations back in my family tree (although I believe I have heard the expression - if not understood).

The lyrics I posted for 'Moreton Bay' are the standard version sung all over Australia by folk revival singers and I found them in the DT - second time around. I will post the Simon MacDonald version because it is more important historically, being a genuine, collected folk-processed version whereas the one in DT was "reconstructed" by a folklorist (John Manifold) who produced his own 'singer's text' from three fragments and the 'Fran the Poet' text.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Lyrics Wanted: Youghal Harbour / Road to ~
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 12 Jul 98 - 07:35 PM

G'day again...

That was of course 'FranK the Poet' - not his neglected sister Fran!

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton

Subject: ADD Version: Road to Youghal
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Apr 20 - 07:34 PM

Answer to Youghal Harbour

DESCRIPTION: Near Yougal Harbour the singer meets Mary of Cappoquin again. She tells him that she had his baby. He reminds her that her parents had rejected him. He leaves her again "in grief bewailing" to return to his girl "in sweet Rathangan, near to Kildare"
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: before 1825 (broadside, Bodleian Harding B 28(20))
KEYWORDS: love infidelity rejection separation baby lover
FOUND IN: Ireland
REFERENCES (1 citation):
OLochlainn 8, "Youghal Harbour" (1 text, 1 tune)
Roud #2734
BROADSIDES:
Bodleian, Harding B 28(20), "Answer to Youghall Harbour," W. Armstrong (Liverpool), 1820-1824; also Harding B 11(2180), 2806 b.9(227), 2806 b.11(205), Harding B 25(2128), Firth b.27(11/12) View 1 of 2 [partly illegible], 2806 c.15(163), 2806 c.15(17), 2806 b.11(204), Harding B 19(3), "Youghal Harbour" ("As I roved out on a summer's morning")
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "Youghall Harbour"
NOTES [34 words]: Yougal, County Cork, is on the Celtic Sea coast. Cappoquin is in County Waterford, about 15 miles north of Yougal. Rathangan is in County Kildare, about 100 miles north-east of Yougal as the crow flies. - BS
File: OLoc008

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This is No. 8 in O'Lochlainn's "Irish Street Ballads" (1960, Corinth Books)

YOUGHAL HARBOUR

As I roved out on a summer's morning,
Early as the day did dawn,
When sol appeared in pomp and glory,
I took my way through a pleasant lawn.
Where pinks and violets were sweetly blooming,
And linnets warbling in every shade,
I've been alarmed by a killing charmer,
Near Youghal Harbour I met this maid.

Her aspect pleasing, her smiles engaging,
I thought she really would distract my mind,
When I viewed her features, I thought on the fair one
That in Rathangan I left behind.
Her glancing eyes they seemed most pleasing,
“I think young man I saw you before,
Here in your absence in grief I languish,
My dear you’re welcome to me once more.

“Don’t you remember how you once deceived me,
And courted me with right good will,
But at your returning I’ll now quit mourning,
In hopes your promise you will fulfil.
A darling babe for you I’ll be rearing,
As in your travels you have never seen,
If you’ll agree, love, and come with me, love,
We’ll all live happy in Cappoquin.”

“Oh no, fair maid, I will tell you plainly,
Here to remain I will not agree,
For when your parents would not receive me,
It made me leave this countery.
And when your parents would not receive me
It’s then to Leinster I did repair,
Where I fell a-courting another fair one,
In sweet Rathangan, near to Kildare.

And now I’m going to leave off roving
For I am hoping her love to win,
To her I’ll go now, and I’ll bid adieu, now,
Saying ‘Fare you well, sweet Cappoquin.’
So now he has left me in grief bewailing,
That he my tender young heart did win.
So all fair maidens, beware of strangers,
And think on Mary of Cappoquin.”


The tune I know for this is "The Old Triangle," and I believe the name of the town is pronounced "Yawl" (or is it "yowl")

There's a nice town clock in Youghal, and a beautiful lighthouse by the side of the road.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Youghal Harbour + Road to Youghal
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 19 Apr 20 - 02:09 AM

Joe: “Yawl” it is - like the boat!

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Youghal Harbour + Road to Youghal
From: Felipa
Date: 24 Jan 22 - 04:59 PM

Did the Irish song "Eochoill" precede the English language song?
https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=49138#741259

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Youghal Harbour + Road to Youghal
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jan 22 - 01:30 AM

I really respect Martin Ryan and hate to contradict him, but I tend to think that Youghal is pronounced like the Southern US "y'all". Youghal is a wonderful place, with an amazing town clock and a lighthouse right next to the highway.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Youghal Harbour + Road to Youghal
From: clueless don
Date: 25 Jan 22 - 06:31 AM

This doesn't necessarily mean much, but when I heard the name spoken in the past (Once upon a long time ago, I was an Irish stepdancer), it was pronounced something like "yowl".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Youghal Harbour + Road to Youghal
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 27 Jan 22 - 10:40 AM

Hi Joe!

You mean “Yawllll” like “drawwl”?

The Irish “Eochaill” is closer to “(y)okel” , of course!

Regards