BS: Germany and France are not Europe

Subject: RE: BS:Germany and France are not Europe
From: alanabit
Date: 25 Jan 03 - 05:27 PM

Indeed it does not do any good just to blame corporations, Guest Q. Now I wonder if you will be able to convince me that Bush and Rumsfeld are going to war on behalf of unionised labour?

Subject: RE: BS:Germany and France are not Europe
From: Peter T.
Date: 25 Jan 03 - 05:13 PM

When you think of how the Europeans responded spontaneously with support after September 11th, it is extraordinary how ineptly these guys have handled what was essentially four aces.



yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS:Germany and France are not Europe
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Jan 03 - 05:07 PM

Rumsfeld is a strange critter....he is intelligent and experienced and he can be charming, witty, and quite aware...yet he will occasionally drop the most amazing, inept silliness into a rational debate...

he worries me...

Subject: RE: Germany and France are not Europe
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 25 Jan 03 - 03:15 PM

I believe that most workers in the arms divisions of American companies are unionized. War always means full employment and overtime. What is the attitude of the unions and workers towards war? It does no good to blame just corporations.

Subject: RE: Germany and France are not Europe
From: alanabit
Date: 25 Jan 03 - 03:05 PM

I wonder if someone might politely (or even impolitely) suggest to Mr.Rumsfeld that America is not the world. There are some of us out here - and indeed in the USA itself - who believe that the world's best interests are not synonymous with the needs of American arms manufacturing corporations.

Subject: RE: Germany and France are not Europe
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 03 - 01:38 PM

I'd question whether ordinary people in countries like the Czech Republic or Poland, for example are really that gung-ho about making war on Iraq, any more than we are in the United Kingdom.

Don't go mistaking what governments will do to curry favour with a rich patron, and the wishes of what ordinary people, who know what war and bombing means.

Yes, they know about tyranny in Eastern and Central Europe - but I don't think there were ever many people in those countries duringntye Cold War who wanted to get liberated by a massive air and land attack that would flatten their countries.

Subject: RE: Germany and France are not Europe
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Jan 03 - 12:41 PM

I'm sure that Rumsfeld is just real bitter that France and Germany have no zeal for his master plan. I doubt if he really believes that the Czech Republic and Bulgaria can make up the loss. But you can't call him a quitter. Too bad we can't parachute him into Baghdad...

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Germany and France are not Europe
From: Alice
Date: 25 Jan 03 - 11:18 AM

It is incredibly frustrating to have people controlling our government who would make such a ridiculous statement. May we survive the Bush administration with its lack of diplomacy and abundance of arrogance.

Subject: Germany and France are not Europe
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 03 - 09:34 AM

Donald Rumsfeld, Bush's secretary of defensce effectively lost all the respect and credibility the US used to have in Eurpope and NATO.

In an effort to marginalize the announcement that Germany and France will not buy into the Bush plan for world war, he said that Germany and France are not Europe, they are the old Europe and that the US has the support of all the Estern block countries of the NEW EUROPE.

Officials from Germany have called Donald Rumsfeld irrational and I suppose french waiters can't wait to spit in his food.

Our secretary of defense (twice now) knows all about bio warfare. He was instrumental in pushing bio weapons on Saddam during the Reagan administration. He is still trying to clean up that mess. Lets look at his history.

In 1973, he left Washington, DC, to serve as U.S. Ambassador to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) in Brussels, Belgium (1973-1974).

In August 1974, he was called back to Washington, DC, to serve in the Ford Administration successively as:

Chairman of the transition to the Presidency of Gerald R. Ford (1974);
Chief of Staff of the White House and a member of the President's Cabinet (1974-1975); and, as
The 13th U.S. Secretary of Defense, the youngest in the country's history (1975-1977).
From 1977 to 1985 he served as Chief Executive Officer, President, and then Chairman of G.D. Searle & Co., a worldwide pharmaceutical company. The successful turnaround there earned him awards as the Outstanding Chief Executive Officer in the Pharmaceutical Industry from the Wall Street Transcript (1980) and Financial World (1981). From 1985 to 1990 he was in private business.

Mr. Rumsfeld served as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of General Instrument Corporation from 1990 to 1993. A leader in broadband transmission, distribution, and access control technologies for cable, satellite and terrestrial broadcasting applications. Mr. Rumsfeld returned to private business in late 1993. Until being sworn in as the 21st Secretary of Defense, Mr. Rumsfeld served as Chairman of Gilead Sciences, Inc.

During his business career, Mr. Rumsfeld continued public service in a variety of posts, including:

Member of the President's General Advisory Committee on Arms Control - Reagan Administration (1982 - 1986);
President Reagan's Special Envoy on the Law of the Sea Treaty (1982 - 1983);
Senior Advisor to President Reagan's Panel on Strategic Systems (1983 - 1984);
Member of the U.S. Joint Advisory Commission on U.S./Japan Relations - Reagan Administration (1983 - 1984);
President Reagan's Special Envoy to the Middle East (1983 - 1984);

In his current role as Goering he has fortunetly shot himself in the foot and has placed it deeply within his mouth.

Perhaps he is an asset to the peace movement because of his strident imperalistic fascism.