Music and Depression

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 11:23 AM

I hope that reading all of our testimonials of solidarity doesn't lead to further distress! Take a look at the coping skills discovered and described by all of us, and turn off the negative stuff where you can. And one thing I don't think any of us mentioned, TURN OFF THE NEWS!!!. That is one the THE fastest ways to take a fast trip to the emotional basement. The only news program or news magazine I watch with any consistency any more (but I missed it this week) is CBS Sunday Morning. They actually seek out good news.

SRS

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: GUEST,guest Mudjack
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 12:44 PM

S.A.D. Seasonal Affective Disorder. My music has been the pits lately. I have deducted that living in the NW during the winter months with rain and gray days for long periods of time has a way of deppressing and making one feel like sh-t.
Your situation is obviously compounded and likely more serious.
Get help or what ever it takes to get yourself back on track to being a happy camper.
Mudjack

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Naemanson
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 12:58 PM

mary garvey
You asked "Did fiancee do a number on you or was it a case of her realizing that the relationship was not one she could continue in, and let you down as gently as possible?"

It isn't so easy. On October 7 I thought we were on track to be married and that made me happy. Late that night she took 33 sleeping pills and we spent the rest of that evening and the next day in the hospital. That night she kicked me out and said it was over. I do not know why and I cannot guess at what happened to make her take such a drastic step. She certainly didn't let me down easy.
*****************
There are a lot of comments regarding what I can do differently in the future. I would be first in line to recognize that it takes two to break up a relationship. Unfortunately I need some input from her to tune me in to what I did or didn't do. Perhaps if she had said something, anything, I could have made changes to improve things. As it is, I just don't know so I am left to assume I was either innocent or so damn guilty that she had to resort to suicide to get clear of me. The other theory that I have been entertaining is that she did it deliberately, waiting till I was truly hooked and then dropping me like a hot rock.

A few months after I lost my previous love to another man she and I managed to have a series of email conversations that explained what happened. I was able to make some changes in my attitude and approach. I have written several times to my ex-fiancee but she remains silent. Without input I can only guess as to what happened.
****************
The debts and the loss of the house are my own fault. I made decisions based on the fact that we would be living together. I also missed some important filing dates for my daughter's financial aid because I let my fiancée distract me from what is truly important. Again, my own damn fault.
*****************
Sinsull
You wrote: "…Maybe it will help to take a close look at all three relationships and try to figure out the common factors. It could simply be that you are attracted to people who are not capable of loving you as you need to be loved. If you can identify the immediate attraction trigger, you will then know who is to be avoided. Of course, that means that you you will probably have to forego that intense "instant gratification" honeymoon time and concentrate on developing long term friendships that may (or may not) lead to commitment."

I know there is at least one common factor between the different relationships and that is me. I think all three women were quite different from each other. The last two were very different from my wife and that one lasted 17 years! However the last several years were pretty hard.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: mike the knife
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 01:19 PM

Thanks for this thread. Going on 5 weeks ago I was summarily scraped off of the bottom of someone's shoe & I still can't eat or sleep. For the first time in my life I was absolutely certain what it was I wanted to do with my life. Nothing has ever hurt so much. Ever. Nothing is working. Thanks for the tips.
Regards,
Mike

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Naemanson
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 01:47 PM

Three years ago my lover dropped me for another man. That has to have been the absolute worst pain I have ever felt. In my current depression I am grateful that is not the case this time. It is the only seriously positive thought I can come up with.

My memory of February 2000 is one of endless nights pacing the floor, food with no taste, tears without warning, and actual physical pain radiating from my center throughout my body and limbs. By comparison this break up is child's play.

Today I am friends with her and the other guy. I am sometimes not comfortable around them but I can look them in the eye and not flinch. And to be fair to the other guy it wasn't his fault. He didn't take her knowingly from my side. He was there and she needed someone. I learned a lot from that breakup.

I wish I could learn from this one.

By the way, this weekend I did some wood working and it was very therapeutic. It took most of the weekend to actually kick my arse into gear (Amos) but I did it.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: mg
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 09:03 PM

Unless you did truly awful things, which I can't imagine you did, such as beating her, telling her awful things, having affairs with other women, locking her up somewhere...you should release yourself from any guilt over her suicide attempt.    it was undoubtedly something that was building for a while and without a nice man around it might have happened much sooner. If she didn't tell you what you did "wrong" and you didn't knowingly do anything that the average person would consider abusive or demeaning to her, there is nothing more you could have done.

Do you suppose you are attracted to damsels in distress?

mg

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 04:17 AM

Well, this christmas whilst putting up the tree. I had the radio on - listening to whatever came on.

I'd been in the attic to get the decorations, and had found my grans old scarf. Still smelt of old ladies, cigarettes and lavender water and hairspray.

My gran died 2 years ago which was a huge blow to me, and this got me thinking about her. I was putting up all the decs on the tree and then one of my songs I turn off usually if it comes on, came on the radio...

Bridge Over Troubled Water came on and the flood gates opened. Then every song after that just capitulated the situation to make it worse. Until I was a gibbering wreck. The only thing that knocked some sense into me, was reaching for some strong, kicking feisty Scottish diddle e dee. Which picked my mood up and had me dancing around the room.

SO.....

Try and find your most favourite piece of music that is a mood lifter, and listen to it and that may help?

I get the occasional black dog - and at the moment it's all a bit hectic, with a very ill father. Moving house, and expecting hospital treatment myself. I just try and keep cheerful, have the odd crying blast and get on with it again. I remember all the good things in life, my loved ones, fantastic friends, gorgeous neices and nephews, and suportive partner and more. And whilst I sometimes don't want to do those gigs I am booked for, the sessions make up for it. And are usually a blast with no pressure.

So, don't give up on it all - just find that music that lifts you most!
Ella

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 02:07 PM

Brett,

I agree with Mary, the suicide attempt had everything to do with what was going on in that girlfriend's head. Go reread what Mary wrote. It's not your fault. As one who recently lost a loved one to suicide, I know that he had lots of very nice people around him who would have gone to extraordinary lengths to help him if he'd asked. His choice hurt a lot of people. You are deeply wounded by what may have been a serious attempt, or may have been the other type, a "cry for help." It's not your baggage to carry, if you can figure out how to let go of it.

We hit tough spots in our lives, when things seem to go wrong for a while, kind of an emotional domino effect. Things will stop toppling and you'll get through it.

SRS

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Naemanson
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 02:41 PM

Figuring out how to let go of it is the trick. I have never been able to easily let go of anything, either emotional or physical. I still have regrets about relationships that go back through the ages. I hope that's normal.

I try to convince myself that she left because she couldn't deal with what was in her head. I try to believe that there was no other possible outcome. I try to believe that I am better off now than that she is gone. And some day I will get there.

And all is not lost. Today I am feeling better. I am happier and more energetic. I fear it's only temporary but it may not be. I may be looking forward to my trip to California.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 03:05 PM

Brett, I was gonna write last night but thought I'd better wait. It sounds like there was something bothering her very much and she couldn't tell you. She swallowed pills perhaps because she needed to at least show you. It sounds like she still can't or won't communicate. Imagine what that lack of communication would have been like if you had married! You could have wound up miserable for quite a long time and probably still, at the end, had to deal with the intense pain you're going through now.

You can usually figure out what goes on in your own head, but forget trying with other people's. I think most folks have some regrets and I KNOW most people occasionally think "If I had just..." Well, we only know what we should have done because what we DID do didn't work. Can't travel back and fix it and anyway, we might screw up something completely different. Shift, dear. From past to present, from present to hopeful dreams of the future.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Naemanson
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 03:33 PM

As I mentioned in my post to the thread on being in Los Angeles I am feeling better. I managed to leave my antidepressants behond and the insurance company wouldn't help pay for a refill so I've been over a week without them. I am dreading going back to Maine but that must happen anyway so we will see what comes of that.

I have started to sing again. Last week, after a tiff on the email, I quit Roll & Go. Almost immediately my interest in music reappeared. I may have accidentally found the reason I lost it. That too remains to be seen. At least now I am plying and singing again.

Anyway, thanks for your support.

Brett

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Kim C
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 03:57 PM

I've been reading an interesting book, called The Van Gogh Blues: The Creative Person's Path Through Depression.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Amos
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 04:11 PM

Brett:

I had the great pleasure ofg hearing you sing in San Diego last weekend. You do remember last weekend, right? **bg**

Tell ya, Brett, if that's what you sound like when you're singing the blues, I can't wait to hear you when you get cheered up. It was mighty fine singing for true, and FWIW, it left all of US feeling better, anyway! :>)

A

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Naemanson
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 10:06 AM

Just as an update, I have made the transition from depressed to happy. I am singing again and enjoying my music.

Thanks for your support.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: MMario
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 10:19 AM

good to hear that.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Bernard
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 02:48 PM

Ella, please don't take this as criticism - I do understand what you are saying - but if you are able to go from 'the blues' to 'happy' just by changing a record, you aren't depressed in the clinical sense, even if you are pre-disposed to bouts of depression.

The loss of a loved one either through bereavement, or by being 'dumped', does not necessarily induce clinical depression, though it obviously can.

I have suffered with depression for years, and lose the will to live on a regular basis. No music on earth is capable of fixing that for me. Sady, it is very rare that I listen to recorded music for pleasure, and I often find it hard to enjoy going to a folk club - so much so that I frequently stay at home instead.

Well-meaning people say 'You'll enjoy it when you get there!' - but it doesn't work like that. If I ignore my gut feelings and go, I'm more likely to get a panic attack, maybe insult someone, then head for home as quickly as I know how.

Bagpuss is right - it's symptomatic of depression that you lose interest, and there is no 'instant fix'.

If you have good, supportive friends around you (as I have), it helps, but another symptom of depression is the ungracious treatment of these friends - though as true friends they understand and ignore such behaviour.

One thing is certain - depression sorts out who your real friends are!!

Sorry this is a bit rushed - I haven't had time to read the thread properly, and I hope I'm not trampling all over people's feelings (as I often am wont to do!).

TTFN

B

Patience is the companion of wisdom.
--St. Augustine

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 06:59 PM

As said above, with true depression, there is no instant fix. There may be a momentary lightening of mood, but there is no fix. It's been a year since bits of my world fell apart, and although some parts of it are coming together, there are still big holes that need to be patched over. One of these is music. I still have no regular outlet for music and I miss it dreadfully. Trouble is, to regain that outlet, I have to commit to something I'm not ready for yet. Because I can't do that, I have no outlet, and so get more and more down. I've found who my true friends are, and it's surprising that they aren't the ones I thought they should be. And that is also depressing.

However, I've picked a goal, and I'm working towards that one. If I reach it, I will go for another. If I don't, I've done no harm, and maybe some good, which will see me through another down time.

The trick is to keep the goals attainable. Go for it.

LTS

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: magician
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 05:34 AM

Hi Brett,

Even all these miles away in England, I can identify with your pain. I also have beeen through deep depression, through the loss of my husband and other factor's which compounded things to the extent of my almost giving up on life.

I coped with burning various thereputic oils and insenses, talking to my friends and not lossing sight of the fact, that the true ones where there for me. I hardest thing was to let fo and realise that what had happened was not my fault!! I lived for years with a guilty conscience blaming my self for his death. NO it wasn't, I think that what ever happened he would have gone any way.

That is definaltly the hardest thing!! The doctor wanted to put me on pills, but I said no, I wanted to do it on my own. 20% help is given my the pills as a kick start to balence the chemical imbalance, the rest is up to you.

I have just come across this thread and have read with interest as it is something I have been through. I hope that you continue to get better. The thing is that once you are through it, if/when it happens again you can turn round and say,"I've been here before and I know that there is a light at the end of the tunnell"

Set yourself little goal posts - for example your wood-working, that sounds very thereputic for you. Good luck.

Gille

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: fat B****rd
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 06:58 AM

What everybody else said and good luck from fB.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Art Thieme
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 11:31 AM

For me, it was deep but at least a decent percent of it was "situational"--- in that my body was falling apart for the last two decades. Those physical symptoms were misdiagnosed --- and that led to all four spinal surgeries with continued degradation of my total health with more misdiagnosed episodes of a bewildering negative nature. Suicide seemed a good way out before total poverty reared it's head. (As I've said, jokingly, "Suicide is the sincerest form of self criticism.) My brother made me see what was happening and we got help--and medication. Then Mayo Clinic found I'd had MS since about 1980. It was liberating !!

And MS itself has cognitive aspects that cause depression. Observable with MRI, placques on the brain and spinal cord can be the culprits here. Recent memory problems are very real too with MS---much more than simple aging. I do believe that is why I continually re-post lines and jokes etc. here in this good forum. ;-)

But Zoloft has helped unbelievably. Along with important talk therapy, my many "losses" of many physical things I once could do easily (like picking) had to be grieved and dealt with much like your loss here, Naemanson.

Don't blow off your dark feelings and the suicidal compulsive hands that are possibly, you think, reaching for you----if indeed they are.
If you, or any others who are depressed, need intervention, get it.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Naemanson
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 01:45 PM

I've been doing a lot of thinking about what has picked me up. I present my thoughts here as a seed for others to consider and apply to their own lives or ignore as they wish.

The incidents that sparked the latest round of depression were the breakup, my last daughter going off to college, and winter. The daughter and the breakup were close together and were followed by what we can all agree was a tough winter.

I have been a full time father for 22 years. Last August my daughter left for college and I was left with an empty nest. It hit me harder than I thought it would and I am sure my reaction must have contributed to the breakup. Essentially with the departure of my daughter my future was thrown into question. What would I do if I wasn't a father all the time?

Then my fiancee jumped out of the relationship and that tipped me farther into the black cloud. I may have invested too much of my future into that relationship. Whatever the cause and whatever I did, the two incidents left me with no idea of what lay ahead of me.

And this last winter didn't help me at all. I was in a little apartment with crushing debt and cold weather outside and no decent idea of what to do with the rest of my life. For a while I devoted my life to working, putting in lots of unpaid overtime, coming in on the weekends and doing almost nothing else.

In December I realized that I had no attachments and could go overseas. I didn't even have to keep working for the same branch of the service. So I started to apply for whatever jobs I could find as long as they were in Europe. Then as the winter wore on I expanded my search to include tropical climates. And I started to see that I no longer carried an obligation to or for anyone but myself. That was a liberating thought.

Then I went to California. It was a taste of my future life and that blew my depression out of the water. I only needed to commit one act of social surgery and I was clear and happy again. I quit Roll & Go with whom I'd been singing for 10 years. I won't go into details but the group was part and parcel of my relationship that had gone bad.

Now I am waiting for word on going to Guam. I have rediscovered that I can dream and there is no one who can crush my dreams and take them away from me. If the job on Guam doesn't come through then I will be interviewing for a job in Italy. If that one doesn't work out then I will try for one of the other two jobs coming up in Italy or the one in Spain.

And I am singing again. I enjoy playing my guitar and I like singing. I have made a serious turn around and I don't want to go back to the depths from which I have risen. I can now work to realize a long standing dream and nothing will stop me.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: GUEST,Bagpuss
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 02:05 PM

I'm glad that you have managed to pull yourself out of the hole that you were in. From what you have said it seems like the main thing that helped you get better was that you recognised your problem before it completely swallowed you. So you were still able to make those sorts of decisions about your life that could help you pull yourself out even further. My descent into depression is usually so quick that before I know anything about it, I am rock bottom, and incapable of making any positive decisions, or any decisions at all. And even when I try to do something, I don't have the skills anymore to make these things work. I remember one period of depression where I had just left a job to move to a new area with my other half. I applied for lots of jobs and never got a single interview. However once I started to get better, I got interviews for practically every job I applied for. Too depressed to even fill out an application form properly.

Because my depression is mainly seasonal, the upside is that I almost always get better around april time and it disappears as quickly as it came. Its very hard to see the significance of this in the middle of January when I can't see the point of living my life, but I try to keep telling myself about it anyway as much as I can.

I hope you manage to keep the black dog at bay in future and good luck with your travels.

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Greenbeer
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 02:24 PM

Just my two cents worth...
I also suffer from low-grade persistent depression and I would like to suggest that you continue to work with the medication. While they are all in the same family they all have somewhat different effects. I have started using effexor on the recommendation of some friends and I am happy with it. It is a second-line drug meaning it addresses both depression and anxiety, which has helped me a lot.
I don't like the idea of taking drugs, but I like the debilitating effects of depression less. If your doctor won't work with you then get another one. And counselling can be more helpful than you might think, and if you can't afford it maybe you can find someone willing to barter or some other creative arrangement. Just having to articulate problems can be very helpful.
Keep on doing the good things, and I'm glad to hear you're feeling better.
all the best,
Greenbeer

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Bernard
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 04:24 PM

Good for you, N! It's great to read about success stories!

However, depression has a deeply selfish side, and it is making me write 'but when will it be my turn?'...

That said, Art - my heart goes out to you. It's one thing not wanting to do something that you are able to do, but wanting to do something you are no longer able to do... bugger. Bugger, bugger, bugger.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Naemanson
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 07:40 PM

I know it isn't the drugs. When I went to California I forgot all my prescriptions. The insurance company wouldn't let me refill them because I had just refilled them a few days before. So I went two weeks without the antidepressants. And I felt great. I still do.

And life hasn't exactly been a bowl of cherries. I injured my knee in California and have been in pain ever since. I am to have surgery on it next Friday. There are other difficulties as well. But my new emotional state takes the punches and rolls with them.

Subject: RE: Music and Depression
From: Amos
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 07:48 PM

Brett:

You are GODAMMNED right it isn't the drugs.

You hauled her about and put her on tack and trimmed her up just as she should be.

Sure, a little sunshine helps. But there is no substitute for the Thou in the equation. Drugs are an occasionally necessary bridge for some people under some circumstances, but for anyone who can do so, I cheer for the walking away and the standing up, and the exercise of Sovereign Self-Determination. Way to go, laddie!!

A