Lyr ADD: The Man I Killed (Mick Ryan)

Subject: Lyr Req: 'another place another time'
From: GUEST,AArk
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 07:11 PM

Anyone know this song? The gist of the chorus is something like:-

In another place in another time
I'd drink his health with a glass of wine
I'd raise it up and drink my fill
With the man that I would kill

I have heard it sung in a session, have searched books and net to no avail. Only heard it sung by one person, perhaps he's the composer.
Its a super song, can anyone provide details of where words can be found?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'another place another time'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 11:19 PM

Sounds interesting, AArk - what's the gist of it, besides wanting to kill a drinking buddy?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'another place another time'
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 11:40 PM

I found a lot of songs with this title, but not the right one. Sorry.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'another place another time'
From: Nevada
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 02:08 AM

It was written by Mick Ryan (Mick Ryan & Pete Harris)
I dont know the lyrics right now but i'l get them for you later.
Luv AAA x

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'another place another time'
From: nutty
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 04:57 AM

The song is by Mick Ryan and is called "The Man I Killed" although it is sometimes wrongly titled "My Enemy".

It's a wonderful song.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE MAN I KILLED (Mick Ryan)
From: Orac
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 10:54 AM

I posted the lyrics to this song some time ago but they don't seem to be here anymore so here they are again.

THE MAN I KILLED
(Mick Ryan)

My enemy I first did see with the dawn all in his eye.
His armour bright was a fine brave sight and I heard his battle cry.
His sword did wave and a yell I gave in answer to his call.
By the red sunset the ground was wet with blood where he did fall.

CHORUS: In another place, at another time I'd drink his health in a glass of wine.
I'd shake the hand and think no ill of the man that I did kill.

For who can say why he marched away to join the battle throng?
For a man's misled by the glorious dead who live in a hero's song.
Did he march away on a fine spring day to a darling sweetheart's wave?
Was it careless love or a chance to prove to his love that he was brave?

My enemy I then did see with a musket in his hand.
He raised that gun in the morning sun when he made his final stand.
But I picked him out in that last redoubt and I heard the singing sigh
Of the ball that flew to the man I slew and I heard his last death cry. CHORUS

For who can say why he marched away to meet my deadly aim?
Was it want of bread or work that led him away to the deadly game?
Was his poor soul sold for a piece of gold that brought him over the sea?
Did a starving wife or a poor man's life bring the poor man here to me?

My enemy I then did see in a world of shell and fire.
I saw him stand in the no-man's land through the loops of the old barbed wire,
And as he ran, I marked my man and played my well-drilled part,
And the air was split as the bullet hit and tore his life apart. CHORUS

For who can say why he marched away so far from his native land?
Did he fear to die? Did the white feathers fly? Did she place one in his hand?
Did he feel her shame? Did he take the blame? Did she smile at his uniform?
And did she cry when he went to die on that far off summer's morn?

My enemy I could not see with his children in his arms.
He was far away on that fateful day and I meant to him no harm.
But I gave the word and a roar was heard as death took us all by the hand,
And in reply it was eye for eye and we're all in no-man's land. CHORUS

For who can say why we march away? we have reasons of our own.
We are poor, we are sad, we are rich, we are glad, and we all die our deaths alone.
We go up, we go back, we retreat, we attack, we are safe, and we take our chance.
We mark our man and we do what we can to keep up with death's old dance. CHORUS

Better still, you can buy Mick's book of his songs from him or from the publishers. E-mail [e-mail]. The book is £8 plus £1 p&p.

Excess line breaks deleted. --JoeClone, 22-Feb-03.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'another place another time'
From: GUEST,AArk
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 06:09 PM

Many thanks for the responses, especially ORAC for the mammoth typing effort.

Can the powers that be can add the lyrics to the Database for others to discover?

As a newcomer to the Internet and communicating by computer in this way, its heartning to have found this marvellous community especially in these uncertain times.

I hope to be able to contribute in the future. May Mudcat go from strength to strength.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'another place another time'
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 06:23 PM

Orac's original post at: Tune Req: Need song about war/soldier/pacif

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'another place another time'
From: Orac
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 06:55 AM

Ah.. so there it is.. drat!.. How did you find it. I tried the search and it drew a blank. Its a bit tidier there too!! Still a great song though as Mick's usually are..

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'another place another time'
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 07:00 AM

I used the search on your name for your post history. (Click Orac in the From: header of any of your posts). Then it was just guessing the thread title!

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'another place another time'
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 07:10 AM

I might add that my preferred method of searching for song threads is to use part of the title in the Filter box with Age set to All. It's far more reliable and quicker than the Search. However it does depend on something recognisable being in the thread title, which wasn't true in this case.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Man I Killed (Mick Ryan)
From: GUEST,Lady Elizabeth
Date: 03 Aug 19 - 10:57 AM

I'm thinking of learning the Man I killed, and although I can remember the chorus tune from the singing of dear Andy Jackson (bless hiim) I don't have any idea how the tune for the verses. I haven't been able to find it on YouTube and I don't read music. has Mick Ryan recorded it? It would be good to buy his own CD if poss. Elizabeth. .

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Man I Killed (Mick Ryan)
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 03 Aug 19 - 11:15 AM

It was on Mick Ryan & Pete Harris The Widow's Promise.

There's a used copy available on amazon at the moment cd: The Widow's Promise - £9.98 + £1.26 postage.

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Man I Killed (Mick Ryan)
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 19 - 01:37 PM

Isn't it by Thomas Hardy?- there is certainly a very similar poem of his which I can't find just now

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Man I Killed (Mick Ryan)
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 03 Aug 19 - 02:09 PM

Hardy - The Man He Killed. It's not the same, but it might have been part of his inspiration.


Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Man I Killed (Mick Ryan)
From: GUEST,Lady Elizabeth
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 07:50 AM

Many thanks Mick P, will try that! xx

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Man I Killed (Mick Ryan)
From: Joe_F
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 05:55 PM

It puzzles me that the song, tho evidently recent, seems to be set in WW I. (Or were white feathers used in more recent wars?)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Man I Killed (Mick Ryan)
From: GUEST,Mark
Date: 06 Aug 19 - 10:33 AM

I'm not sure Joe F is reading the lyrics I read (posted by Orac 03 Feb 03 - 10:54 AM )
Those lyrics seem to fall into 4 periods - fighting with swords, with muskets, with artillery and rifles, and finally with bombs or missiles at a distance.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Man I Killed (Mick Ryan)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 05:30 PM

What is the significance of white feathers?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Man I Killed (Mick Ryan)
From: GerryM
Date: 16 Nov 21 - 12:56 AM

Here's what Wikipedia says about white feathers:

The white feather is a widely recognised propaganda symbol It has, among other things, represented cowardice or conscientious pacifism; as in A. E. W. Mason's 1902 book, The Four Feathers. In Britain during the First World War it was often given to men out of uniform by women to shame them publicly into signing up. In the United States armed forces, however, it is used to signify extraordinary bravery and excellence in combat marksmanship.

As a symbol of cowardice
In the United Kingdom and the countries of the British Empire since the 18th century, the white feather has sometimes represented cowardice. As such, it was used by patriotic groups, including prominent members of the Suffragette movement and early feminists, to shame men into enlisting.

Accordingly, the white feather supposedly comes from cockfighting and the belief that a cockerel sporting a white feather in its tail is likely to be a poor fighter. Pure-breed gamecocks do not show white feathers and so its presence indicates that the cockerel is an inferior cross-breed.

The Crusades
Shame was exerted upon men in England and France who had not taken the cross at the time of the Third Crusade. "A great many men sent each other wool and distaff, hinting that if anyone failed to join this military undertaking they were only fit for women's work".

World War I
In August 1914, at the start of World War I, Admiral Charles Fitzgerald founded the Order of the White Feather with the support of the prominent author Mary Augusta Ward. The organisation aimed to shame men into enlisting in the British army by persuading women to present them with a white feather if they were not wearing a uniform.[4][5]

Although the draft would conscript both sexes, only males would be on the front lines. While the true effectiveness of the campaign is impossible to judge, it spread throughout several other nations in the empire. In Britain, it started to cause problems for the government when public servants and men in essential occupations came under pressure to enlist. That prompted Home Secretary Reginald McKenna to issue employees in state industries with lapel badges reading "King and Country" to indicate that they were serving the war effort. Likewise, the Silver War Badge, which was given to service personnel who had been honourably discharged by wounds or sickness, was first issued in September 1916 to prevent veterans from being challenged for not wearing uniform. Anecdotes from the time indicate that the campaign was not popular among soldiers, not least because soldiers who were home on leave could find themselves presented with feathers.

One example was Private Ernest Atkins, who was on leave from the Western Front. He was riding a tram when he was presented with a white feather by a girl sitting behind him. He smacked her across the face with his pay book and said, "Certainly I'll take your feather back to the boys at Passchendaele. I'm in civvies because people think my uniform might be lousy, but if I had it on I wouldn't be half as lousy as you".

Private Norman Demuth, who had been discharged from the British Army after he had been wounded in 1916, received numerous white feathers after he returned from the Western Front. In Forgotten Voices of the Great War, Demuth is quoted as saying:

"Almost the last feather I received was on a bus. I was sitting near the door when I became aware of two women on the other side talking at me, and I thought to myself, 'Oh Lord, here we go again'. One lent forward and produced a feather and said, 'Here's a gift for a brave soldier. I took it and said,'Thank you very much- I wanted one of those.' Then I took my pipe out of my pocket and put this feather down the stem and worked it in a way I've never worked a pipe cleaner before. When it was filthy I pulled it out and said, 'You know, we didn't get these in the trenches', and handed it back to her. She instinctively put out her hand and took it, so there she was sitting with this filthy pipe cleaner in her hand and all the other people on the bus began to get indignant. Then she dropped it and got up to get out, but we were nowhere near a stopping place and the bus went on quite a long way while she got well and truly barracked by the rest of the people on the bus. I sat back and laughed like mad."

Supporters of the campaign were not easily put off. A woman who confronted a young man in a London park demanded to know why he was not in the army. "Because I am a German", he replied. He received a white feather anyway.

Perhaps the most misplaced use of a white feather was when one was presented to Seaman George Samson, who was on his way in civilian clothes to a public reception in his honour. Samson had been awarded the Victoria Cross for gallantry in the Gallipoli campaign.

Roland Gwynne, later the mayor of Eastbourne (1929–1931) and a lover of suspected serial killer John Bodkin Adams, received a feather from a relative. That prompted him to enlist, and he would receive the Distinguished Service Order for bravery.

The writer Compton Mackenzie, then[when?] a serving soldier, complained about the activities of the Order of the White Feather. He argued that "idiotic young women were using white feathers to get rid of boyfriends of whom they were tired". The pacifist Fenner Brockway said he received so many white feathers that he had enough to make a fan.

World War II
The white feather campaign was briefly renewed during World War II.

Etc., etc.