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BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: Murray MacLeod Date: 05 Feb 03 - 07:14 PM This Monday, Feb 10th, the annual BBC Radio 2 Folk Music Awards will be announced. Details Here There are various categories of award, but I am particularly fascinated by who will be considered Folk Musician of the Year by the panel of 80 judges. The nominations are Eliza Carthy, John McCusker, Martin Simpson and Tony McManus. If I were a betting man (which I am) I would price up the field at 4/5 Tony McManus, 6/4 Martin Simpson, 10/1 Eliza Carthy and 25/1 John McCusker. Eliza is also up for other awards and will no doubt gain consolation. I have a gut feeling that this is the year Tony McManus finally gains the nationwide recognition he so richly deserves, although I will feel bad for Martin Simpson if he loses, especially since he recorded such a magnificent CD last year. Murray |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 05 Feb 03 - 07:23 PM Murray-Contact Graham Sharpe at Hills and get him to offer you odds on the event, when you know more about the event then the odds compilers, you have a good chance of making money, don't let him see this thread though! |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: smallpiper Date: 05 Feb 03 - 07:46 PM So who the hell are the judges? Was I asked, were you??? Yet another load of cobblers from the BBC I mean its not like they've even demostrated any real commitment to folk music have they! |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: GUEST,mark dunlop Date: 06 Feb 03 - 09:01 AM "Another load of cobblers from the BBC" - great slogan, that man. I'm not here to question the BBC's commitment to folk - there's a time and a place for that. What I would say is that I speak as a member of a band (Malinky) who have been nominated for an award - Best Original Song. I don't expect us to win, but as we have been working hard for more than 4 years as a serious minded band the very fact that we have been nominated for one of these awards gives us a great deal of pleasure. It means we are doing something right and heading in the right direction. Obviously these award thingies are hugely subjective (who really IS the best folk singer, hmm?) and we're not going to the awards as a big name band, so even if we don't win, the very nomination is the important thing for us. This is definitely one of those times when the important thing is participation, not the winning. I reckon different people will attach different levels of importance to the whole thing, depending on their outlook. Doubtless some of the nominees will be bothered by not winning, while some of the winners won't be too bothered about winning. As far as people who buy albums (and contribute to chat fora like this) go, some will think it's great, others will think it's a "load of cobblers". We'll have fun, regardless. m.d. |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: Declan Date: 06 Feb 03 - 11:25 AM Looking at it from this side of the water I'd say that BBC (at least Radio 2) have a reasonbaly high commitment to folk music, at least compared to RTE, our national broadcaster (with the notable exceptions of the Gaelic language stations Radio na Gaeltachta and TG4). At least there is a weekly program, a pretty good and active website and sponsorship of these awards and stages at a number of major festivals. Congrats to Malinky on the nomination. As you say Mark most of the benefit is in getting your name heard and a nomination is good for this whether you win or not. I've had a look at the nominations and wouldn't have too many quibbles with the nominees, I've heard a lot of them and most of those I've heard I thought were reasonably good. I'm sure everybody could think of people who weren't nominated who deserved to be. The notion that some one (or group of people) is going to decide that Martin Simpson or John Mc Cusker or Tony Mc Manus or Eliza Carthy is the Musician of the Year seems a bit daft to me. I heard and enjoyed them all at some stage last year – I don't care who other people think is best I'll listen to any of them. But this is Music Biz stuff and a lot of that is about publicity. It does seem a bit daft to me that "There were Roses" by Tommy Sands is nominated in the Best Original Song category. Not that its not a great song – its just that it must be at least 20 years old at this stage. |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: smallpiper Date: 06 Feb 03 - 04:11 PM I hardly think that one program a week and a stage at Cambridge Folk festival (and I'm not overly impressed by the website) counts as a great commitment. Sorry and all that but that is my opinion. However dispite my reservations etc I will offer congratulations to Malinky on the nomination because like you say its music biz stuff and its all about publicity. |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: Ed. Date: 06 Feb 03 - 04:29 PM Mark Dunlop, For what it's worth, 'Thaney' is the best of the nominated songs by far. It's cracking! I hope and expect you to win. |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: GUEST,noddy Date: 07 Feb 03 - 07:58 AM why are there not Regional Folk Awards given out by Regional radio Stations and run as a sort of Qualification round for the National awards. that way more people get acknowledgement of their talent rather than the same old folk we here day in day out week in week out on Mike Hardings Prog. It is almost "jobs for the boys".Those that make most out of this sort of thing are the Record Companies and promoters and not the artists. |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: GUEST,mark dunlop Date: 07 Feb 03 - 10:35 AM Thanks Declan. Thanks also Smallpiper (are you related to weepiper?) even though you don't agree it's worth the effort. Start a new thread on the Beeb's role and I'm sure you'll get comment from the great, the good, and the common viewers/listeners too. Cheers too, Ed. Karine wrote the song, the rest of us just arranged it with her, so all the credit for actually creating the piece must go to her. We just did the best we can to make it as powerful as possible. We all love the song, but none of us is heading down the bookies to check our odds (if you know what I mean). Like I said, the main thing for us is that enough of the judges thought enough of our work to nominate us in the first place. Sorry if this seems a bit mundane, but a gradual approach is reaaly the only way to succeed in the business. Very few acts get "discovered" and propelled to folk-stardom within months. Go on, someone. Start a thread about the BBC commitment to folk music, and the nature of "competitiveness in music". You'll find as many opinions as the are 'catters, I feel sure. m.d. |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: My guru always said Date: 07 Feb 03 - 11:07 AM Mark Dunlop: Thaney is the best song I've heard for years, it's a Must Win!!! Well done to you all, esp. Karine :-) Will add congrats as and when. Well done Malinky! |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: breezy Date: 07 Feb 03 - 11:17 AM Dear Mark Congrats from St Albans Folk Song Club on your nomination,your a hit with our members, shame we are too small a venue for you. Can you nevertheless help us out as you may meet Linda Thompson. I've tried asking here but to no avail, can you please ask her about the line in the last verse of 'No Telling' that begins ' The Queen of the Ballroom still gl't'trs a nd shines each night at the ------- -------- ------- ------- which I hear as 'The Old Prime Mouse Steak' but dont tell her I think its over-rated, easy and pleasing but I know this is a bare faced cheek, but our Hilary is singing your 'Thaney'song very well and accapella too, even her accent is convincing, and she's from Luton! Ta Breezy Pm me if you like after you've signed up Enjoy the night |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: My guru always said Date: 07 Feb 03 - 12:08 PM Hey Breezy, did you never go back to the old No Telling thread, there lots of opinions on that bit, although it would be good to get it all authenticated! MD: Yes, it's bare-faced cheek indeed, but it's only for fun & I just can't stop singing 'Thaney'. The song has such power - and what a rythm to play with :-) Have fun Monday.. Guest, noddy: Regional folk awards, what an excellent idea, if the radio stations were up for it the way would be open for some excellent local musicians! And what a boost for the music! Hil ps. anyone going to start that BBC thread????? |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: smallpiper Date: 07 Feb 03 - 12:33 PM Mark Dunlop I'm no relation to Weepiper although we both play the same kind of pipes. I hope to meet her in the not too distant future when I head up north to collect my new border pipes. God luck with the song |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: smallpiper Date: 07 Feb 03 - 12:39 PM Ok I've accepted your dare Mark BBC thread is up and running |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: GUEST,mark dunlop Date: 08 Feb 03 - 05:01 PM Wahey smallpiper. I've been reading it with interest. I'm not going to contribute to it one way or another until after the awards ceremony - don't want to spoil out chances (heh, heh). Great stuff. m.d. |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: smallpiper Date: 08 Feb 03 - 08:44 PM Good man I like someone who hedges their bets bets of luck old chap! |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: Declan Date: 11 Feb 03 - 07:31 AM Anyone know who won, or do we have to wait until tomorrow night ? |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: GUEST,Sooz(at work) Date: 11 Feb 03 - 07:38 AM Nothing on the BBC wesite yet. |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: My guru always said Date: 11 Feb 03 - 07:55 AM This is the latest news on the website (it seems to be still in progress). Am disappointed about Thaney not winning (sorry MD - hope you all had a good time anyway, that nomination really counts!), but Kate Rusby's song is good too :-) Have tried to start a discussion about 'folk awards' in the 'get talking' forum on the BBC website, but no hits yet. Sorry, couldn't make a link for some reason :-( Hil |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: GUEST Date: 11 Feb 03 - 08:04 AM That's a report on last years event! |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: Declan Date: 11 Feb 03 - 08:05 AM That link is to last years awards. I was wondering how Kate could have won an award without being nominated for anything. I'm a big fan of Kate's myself but I think there's be grounds for objection if that was to happen ! |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: My guru always said Date: 11 Feb 03 - 08:32 AM OOps, sorry, it linked through from their awards 2003 clickie! Will go back into shell right away :-) |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: My guru always said Date: 11 Feb 03 - 08:34 AM No, it didn't link, must have hit the wrong one :-( |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: GUEST,Mikey joe Date: 11 Feb 03 - 08:40 AM Mark Dunlop do you know Graham Robertson from Dundee???? Mj |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: bradfordian Date: 11 Feb 03 - 08:51 AM The beeb won't put up the details till after Harding's show http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/folk/features/f_fa2003_noms.shtml |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: My guru always said Date: 11 Feb 03 - 10:07 AM Aha, have dug up a snippet - the Horizon Award went to John Spiers & Jon Boden. And this IS from the 2003 awards :-) |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: GUEST,Mikey joe Date: 11 Feb 03 - 12:53 PM Don't read below if you want the awards to be a surprise from todays Irish Independent
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: smallpiper Date: 11 Feb 03 - 01:05 PM Same old crowd then BUT well done one and all (especially John McCusker) |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: Declan Date: 11 Feb 03 - 01:28 PM Well done to all concerned. Hard luck Malinky but "tiocfaidh bhur lá" as we say around here. There's not going to be a lot of space on the Carty's mantlepiece with all the awards ! 2 MBEs and 3 BBCs. Ma and Da get the Queen, but Eliza has to make do with Mike Harding! And I'm not going to argue with anyone giving awards to Altan or Christy or John McCusker for that matter. |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: Harry Basnett Date: 11 Feb 03 - 04:57 PM Great news about Spiers and Boden...we had 'em last June at the Open Door Extravaganza and they were brilliant!! So we've got 'em again for the one in March!! |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: Ralphie Date: 11 Feb 03 - 05:11 PM Yes... Big Congrats to all recipients... Particularly Boden & Spiers. Fine pair of chaps....and English as well ! Regards Ralphie |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: GUEST,mark dunlop Date: 12 Feb 03 - 05:04 AM To Mikey Joe. Graham Robertson from Dundee (actually he was born in Perth and lives in Fife, but I'm sure he won't mind) is my father in law. Small world, eh? How do you know him, then? Do I know you? Do you know me?? Do I know anything???!!! One award not mentioned was that Edinburgh Folk Club won Folk Club of the year. Well done to all the guys on the committee. m.d. |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: GUEST,Mikey joe Date: 12 Feb 03 - 05:32 AM I play in the Monday night session in Dundee with Graham. I think I could have met you at his fiftieth birthday but I'm not sure. It is a small world!! Mj |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: Ed. Date: 12 Feb 03 - 03:04 PM Just started on Radio 2 for anyone interested |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: breezy Date: 12 Feb 03 - 07:06 PM Does Linda Thompson do folk clubs? We were pleased to have had Roy Bailey and we'll have him again in November. Voting is by a small'cliqued' minority so would it not enhance its status if all folk clubs had voting rights for these awards ? I feel a thread coming on. |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: Harry Basnett Date: 13 Feb 03 - 04:49 AM I'm just glad there was more of a bias towards traditional music this year...especially English traditional - - and some good points made both by the artists and people presenting the awards! |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: Bullfrog Jones Date: 13 Feb 03 - 05:07 AM Just been catching up listening online and they chopped the programme off during the Oyster Band/Big Session song! Ralphie -- have a word! The way some programmes are presented online it sounds like they've been topped and tailed with a blunt chisel. Wouldn't have happened in my day...mutter, mutter... BJ |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: The Shambles Date: 13 Feb 03 - 05:29 AM This from one who was invited to attend the radio 2 Folk Awards. Who for good reasons, would rather not be identified. Thanks for all your hard work in sending me details about how the campaign is going! I thought you might be interested in the following: Just in case you were beginning to think that all the pro and semi pro folkies were ignoring this whole situation - here is what happened on folk award night last Monday. Mike Harding started off with a whole load of put downs about Kim Howells and said that "He had invited the minister to come along, but he was obviously too afraid of the response" ... or (words to that effect), the mere mention of Kim Howells' name was met by a wealth of pantomine-like boos and hisses from the great and good in folk. Introducing the award for Roy Bailey and Tony Benn as best live act, Tom Robinson finished with the phrase "and these two won't be able to play in a pub if the current government has their way" (or words to that effect). Finally Eliza Carthy on recieving her second award appealed to the whole audience to sign Graham Dixon's petition with tears in her eyes ... I know this means a lot to her. If you heard the radio broadcast you will have noticed that practically all (apart from Tom Robinson's comment) were completely edited out by Smooth Operations, the company who put on the annual show and who are also responsible for The Mike Harding Show. I am appalled and dismayed that they didn't use what small part of the market share in national radio they have responsibility for to represent what the presenters and performers obviously feel so strongly about (as everyone in the folk scene does) - they also missed out other political statements like those made by Christy Moore in response to his message from the Irish Prime Minister. What I'm trying to say, Roger, is don't think all the people in the professional side of folk are ignoring this point. It is just incredibly difficult to get your point accross when the only bit of media attention on folk censors all the poignant facts out. I would be grateful (for selfish career reasons) if you wouldn't link this information with my name if you choose to distribute it to others. But I would be only too happy for others to know how two faced Smooth Ops are for doing this sort of thing at the same time as cashing in on a bit of extra listning figures because they get an interview with KH. Anyway I've ranted enough. Keep up the good work - I really appreciate it. Cheers ……………………………….. |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: Declan Date: 13 Feb 03 - 11:42 AM I was a bit surprised that Christy didn't seem to make any response to Bertie Ahern's message. Overall I enjoyed what I heard of the program. (I was flicking back and forth from the Football). I suspect the omission of some of the stuff mentioned above was that they had to cut the program down to fit the space available, rather than deliberate censorship, but maybe I'm just naive. |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: Dave Wynn Date: 13 Feb 03 - 12:34 PM The whole awards thing appears to me to be flawed. Minority selected voters ridicules any pretext of genuine democracy. So we are fed the results and applaud like seals. I happen to think some of the "winners" were well deserved but nontheless still selected for us not by us. What gives us the right to select award winners?...well I buy the product , study and practise the genre. I feel a vote should be resonable to ask for. The practice of selecting the "folk club of the year" is also strange whereby selected artists are asked to vote for their most popular club. So who wins..The little folk club that has been running for thirty years raising many generations of people in the genre or the big club that pays top dollar (or pound stirling). Why have the awards in any case...I never see awards for plumber of the year...best radiator fittment.....up and coming young mechanic. Perhaps ego needs a lot of food Spot |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: GUEST,mark dunlop Date: 13 Feb 03 - 01:55 PM I feel I really should defend Edinburgh Folk Club. Sure the artists pick their favourite club, but in my experience there is not much major difference between what clubs pay. Edinburgh is my local club and is also the spiritual home of the band I'm with. I reckon the reason they won was because the crowds are always good sized, very knowledgeable, and appreciative of good music. Performers are always very well treated by all. It has been running for nigh on thirty years, and has seen many many mainstays of the scene down those years. As performers, we appreciate welcoming freindly clubs. As a regular visitor to the club as a punter, I know there'll always be a few friends there. Question the merit of awards if you wish, but I think it would be wrong to suggest money would be the reason for picking one over the other. m.d. |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: Ed. Date: 13 Feb 03 - 02:18 PM The entire evening is available as Real Video webcasts at the BBC Radio 2 site I don't think that you're being naive Declan. In a 55 minute show a lot was left out, I really can't see any deliberate censorship at work. Shambles' anonymous correspondent also comments that Eliza Carthy...appealed to the whole audience to sign Graham Dixon's petition with tears in her eyes. I'm sorry, but that is something of a misrepresentation. Eliza did get slightly emotional when thanking all the people who had helped her, "I''m going to do a Gwyneth", but not when she mentioned the petition. Judge for yourself, here. Her speech is approx. 4mins 30seconds in. |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: Ralphy Date: 14 Feb 03 - 04:04 AM Bullfrog... Sadly, I have no control!! Haven't even heard it meself yet...Was busy doing "Rawk" music on Wednesday. Also, I doubt that censorship was the reason for various ommissions on the broadcast...The slot is only 58 Mins, and I'm sure the Live show was probably 2 hours...Something had to give, and as it was about the music, not the politics....OK? But, heartiest congrats to all. Ralphie |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: GUEST,Mikey joe Date: 14 Feb 03 - 04:44 AM So.. what did Christy say to Bertie????? Mj |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: My guru always said Date: 14 Feb 03 - 04:58 AM On the theme of what happened behind the scenes, the quote below was posted on the BBC Radio 2 'get talking' forum as part of a discussion about the show. Although mostly replying to our 'hot topic' it gives valuable insight into the show's production & I thought you might like to see it here: I edited most of the awards show programme and so take responsibility for everything that was edited out. The show ran for two and a quarter hours on the night and I had to cut it down to 87 mins. I had to drop one full piece of music, heavily edit John McCusker's tunes and cut quite a lot of everyone's speech. I did not take out any political references deliberately, was just a practical problem of physically getting the show to time and making it sound reasonably natural. If I remember correctly there were three references to the PEL. I cut out two and left Tom Robinson's comments. There were many other comments during the evening that I regret losing. There is no question of political censorship, it was purely a decision of cutting the speech down to the bone or dropping more music or even one of the awards. However, all the speeches are on our web site where they can be accessed at any time and heard in full, and a number of times during the programme we directed listeners to the web site. John Leonard, Producer. |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: The Shambles Date: 14 Feb 03 - 05:19 AM I'm sorry, but that is something of a misrepresentation. Eliza did get slightly emotional when thanking all the people who had helped her, "I''m going to do a Gwyneth", but not when she mentioned the petition. I was not there and must rely the opinions of those that were, but I do know for a fact that she is very concerned about the effects of this Bill, I hope you were not suggesting here that she is not? For if not, it seems a rather thin distinction. One worth making? |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: The Shambles Date: 14 Feb 03 - 05:22 AM Last year we had Tessa Jowell in attendence, as Kim Howells was (luckily) in the USA. Were any invitations issued to the DCMS this year, I wonder? |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: GUEST,Piers Date: 14 Feb 03 - 05:44 AM Spot the Dog, has hit the spot (excuse the pun) with this. All these arguments were aired last year and still it's the clique of industry 'professionals' telling us who is the best at such and such. Music awards are about the music industry and selling records and foster idolatry and sycophancy, which I don't think is what folk music should be about. Piers |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: breezy Date: 14 Feb 03 - 06:17 AM 'about music and song ' yes, and its all based on politics because thats where folk is at.So to say its not about ploitics is to miss the obvious. Thats what makes the songs so appealing, they are not just bland trash thet is hyped as 'pop'. Sorry Ralfi |
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Subject: RE: BBC Radio 2 Folk Awards From: Ralphy Date: 14 Feb 03 - 11:06 AM Breezy (et al) My comment was purely about making the programme. John Leonard is absolutely right... In a 58 Minute show, something has to go, and the chat is going to go in the bin quicker than the music. I finally got to listen to the show this am. Jolly good, I thought...and congrats to Mr Leonard for turning it around so quickly..(Maybe a mention for Mssrs Walter & Fountain would have been nice. Only joking!) Breezy. I actually thought the political element of the programme was just about right. You have to remember that Radio 2 has to cater for all flavours of listeners, of many political persuasions, and it's remit is to entertain.... So, Not perfect....but, as an old pro....well done Smooth Ops, You'll never please everyone, but, I enjoyed hearing it. Tune into Kershaw over the next couple of weeks, and you can hear what I've been up to!!! Regards Ralphie |
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