BBC - Commitment to folk music??

Subject: RE: BBC - Commitment to folk music??
From: smallpiper
Date: 10 Feb 03 - 12:17 PM

Bugger can't get BBC 4 where I live!

Subject: RE: BBC - Commitment to folk music??
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 11 Feb 03 - 08:03 PM

Sorry about the DELDMARTINTEST spasm in my post above - I must have pasted when I wasn't looking...


Cheers

Subject: RE: BBC - Commitment to folk music??
From: Ralphie
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 05:03 AM

Jane B..Hello
I was going to stay out of this thread, but, congrats on summing up the "Then and now" of the BBC.
I would say that the situation is vastly improved at one level, although I too, mourn the lost of the Radio Theatre In Concert series.
And the fact that Broadcasting House is a building site for the next 5 years doesn't help!!
There are many, many producers and presenters in Radio who are sympathetic to what I'll loosely call the tradition. The problem is finding a hook to hang it on when putting programme ideas to their relative Network Controllers, who, not unsurprisingly, have one eye on the ratings.
The success of Late Junction, Andy Kershaw, and the two F on 2 award ceremonies, prove that the Music IS taken seriously.
I don't work in TV, but the programmes on BBC4 are a giant leap in intelligent programming. Yes, Very frustrating for those who can't get it yet, maybe the Beeb should have thought about the Transmitter infrastructure first, but, in their defence, they had the chance with Freeview, to pick up the failed On Digital system, and had to run with it, as it stood. otherwise Mr Murdoch might have jumped in.
Digi TV will happen, It's got to. when the Analogue Transmitters are switched off in 10 years or so..we'll all be there.
I am therefore cautiously optimistic about the future...Hang it all..I'm doing my bit!
Regards to all
Ralphie

Subject: RE: BBC - Commitment to folk music??
From: Watson
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 08:38 AM

Belated reply to Trevor...
Yes, quite right - every Sunday night, 8:00 - 10:00 on BBC Shropshire, Stoke, Hereford and Worcester with the names you mentioned.
It was available on line for a while, but they were told to stop until there was a proper agreement in place for MCPS / PRS.
I don't know if it can be heard in Squilver although there are a couple of new transmitters in South Shropshire.
I bet they'd even play Rapsquillion if there was a CD, or perhaps they'd turn up and play live one week?

Subject: RE: BBC - Commitment to folk music??
From: GUEST,Mavis Riley
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 08:38 AM

1 Have to agree with smallpiper's comments on general ridicule of Morris at the expense of other forms of ethnic dance. All equally valuable cultural expressions but not given equal weight in the media. How many times have so-called "multi-cultural" events not included England's indigenous culture? How's that for building inter-community understanding? Is there some perverse PC-reverse discrimination going on? Its wider than just the BBC but I suspect BBC are reflecting this wider context.

2 I recall an episode of Excess Baggage on BBC Radio 4 reporting from Cambridge Festival last year. Reporter dismissed English music on offer with a comment like: "its all to do with naff morris dancing isn't it? Not worth seeing what that's about then - we know what it will be like."

3 Would refer to current and recent unrelated threads concerning quality of performance. The "its alright its only fok music" attitude of complacency must transmit a lack of professionalism, preparedness etc to any audience (new to the genre or steeped in it). How many times have I heard people say they can't stand folk music when their experience has been one I would be disappointed by - but I know there are better experiences out there.

Mavis

Subject: RE: BBC - Commitment to folk music??
From: GUEST,Ralphie (Not at Home)
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 09:21 AM

Mavis.
Couldn't agree with you more re Morris dancing.
The problem with peoples attitudes to the music.."It's alright, It's only Folk Music!" is also part of the musics charm and accessibility.
I started playing 30 years ago, because I was allowed to, indeed welcomed by the clubs that I attended then.
In essence, Folk Music is for everyone, good or bad...and therein lies its problem.
But, do we really want the super slick polished performances all the time? All well and good, and I'm as big a fan of your Carthys, Gaughans...etc, etc as the next man.
I also love hearing unpolished, amateur performers as well.
The Media would never know how to deal with those performers...
Mmmm...must go away now and think about it a bit more!
Yes we want more...but...Do we really??
Regards Ralphie (Sound of worm tin opening!)

Subject: RE: BBC - Commitment to folk music??
From: smallpiper
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 10:46 AM

Put the lid back on ralphie!

The highly polished performers would provide an "in" to folk music. get people interested then they will want to find out more and perhaps have a go themselves. Isn't that what happens with yer popular music and even classical?

Subject: RE: BBC - Commitment to folk music??
From: Trevor
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 11:04 AM

Hello Watson - Yep, we get you up at Squilver. If that was an invite, thanks, we'd love to come on the show. I've p-mailed you.

Subject: RE: BBC - Commitment to folk music??
From: GUEST,Mavis Riley
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 11:39 AM

Ralphie (not at home)

Of course amateur performance and accessibility is part of its charm (who would want a professional morris team and wouldn't that destroy the meaning somewhat anyway? - but there are professional folk dance groups in other parts of Europe - I digress) and this is great fun and welcoming and even meaningful in the appropriate context eg sessions, singarounds, informal clubs and so on - but I suggest only if you are "on the inside". How much more fun are amateur mummers than classically trained "actoors". We, on the inside, don't want the polished and slick all the time because we are already hooked on the inclusive atmosphere of these intimate gatherings. But "it'll do, its only folk music" won't necessarily attract the sceptical, it will reinforce their prejudices.

I think we may have the opposite of a virtuous cycle (circle?) here. Not enough of the best is placed in the broader public domain. This serves the myth that there isn't much of "the best" out there and all the rest is mediocre if not worse. If booked at all, it is the mediocre who are booked for events involving the wider public (beer festivals for example) because the organisers expect nothing better than mediocre, possibly also because the mediocre is cheaper than the best - how much? you must be joking, its only folk music! (another thread emerging?). This confirms the non-folkie public collective consciousness in its belief that all folk is mediocre and round and down the circle goes.

Mavis

Subject: RE: BBC - Commitment to folk music??
From: GUEST,Mavis Riley
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 11:59 AM

Look at it another way. Would the sceptics be attracted to folk music and dance by a public performance (by this I mean in a general, non-specifically folkie context - back to the beer festival example) of the session with the unrhythmical egg shakers, five bodhrans never practiced elsewhere, music books and words on music stands and it'll do for folk approach? I suggest not!

Mavis

Subject: RE: BBC - Commitment to folk music??
From: Lady Nancy
Date: 12 Feb 03 - 01:37 PM

There appears to be NO committment to English folk music, and any of us who wish to be so committed are to be soon legislated against performing the same in pubs, clubs etc even at the loss of the "2 in a bar" rule! This applies equally to Wales who, in this instance, share the proposed legislation with England. Scotland, thankfully, is exempt..... I hope their Assembly does not consider following suit.

There was, however, a petition which could be signed by anyone who - like me - is concerned about this issue. Just for the record, the extent to which this might affect ME is that I could effectively be banned from holding ceilidhs in my own home unless I apply for a licence! Whether or not money changes hands, etc. etc. Farcical!!!!

The petition was at www.petitionline.com/2inabar, but it seems to have vanished!

The alternative? phone or write to your MP...

This could REALLY change the way we enjoy our live, traditional music whether it is English, America, Irish or from wherever!

This information was on the front page of my local (weekly) newspaper last Friday, and the issue is due to be debated in the Commons in March. If passed, the Licensing Bill could "outlaw" ALL live music!!!

Perish the thought...!

Subject: RE: BBC - Commitment to folk music??
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 08:27 AM

Thank you for bringing this to our attention your ladyship! I suggest that we immediately start hundreds of threads (perhaps with PEL as a prefix to denote content) including links to the petition, regular updates on the number of signatures, and details on how to fax our MP's to protest. We could organize demonstrations aginst the Bill outside the Houses of Parliament. We could give details of sessions and festivals that have been affected by the PEL. We can mobilise singers, musicians and dancers throughout the country. This could be great! Come on chaps let's get cracking. TOGETHER WE CAN BEAT THIS BILL!

BJ

Subject: RE: BBC - Commitment to folk music??
From: Ralphie
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 12:29 PM

Smallp...
Lid firmly back on..I assure you!
Mavis...Yes...It's a bugger isn't it.
Nevertheless, I'll continue to plough my own furrow (although having lived in London all my life, it's hard work!)
How to reconcile the grass routes performances with the "more polished" professional shows is an enigma wrapped in a quandary (Is that the right quote?!)..
Ho Hum lets just all do what we can.
I'm off to the South Coast for an "Illegal" session next weekend...Can't wait!
Regards Ralphie
PS. Us an egg shaker with five left feet, I take great exception to your remarks !