Lyr Add: Streets of Forbes (trad. Australian)

Subject: Lyr Add: THE STREETS OF FORBES (Australian)
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 13 Jul 98 - 11:15 PM

G'day,

I notice that the version of "streets of Forbes' in the DT is a rather shaky transcription from a (Trevor Lucas?) record.

This is the song as published by the person who collected it - along with a bit of a glossary of terms!

Regards,

Bob Bolton

THE STREETS OF FORBES
(Said to be written by Ben Hall's brother-in-law, John McGuire on seeing the body paraded by the police troopers.)

Come all you Lachlan men, and a sorrowful tale I'll tell
Concerning of a hero bold who through misfortune fell.
His name it was Ben Hall, a man of good renown
Who was hunted from his station, and like a dog shot down.

Three years he roamed the roads, and he showed the traps some fun;
A thousand pound was on his head, with Gilbert and John Dunn.
Ben parted from his comrades, the outlaws did agree
To give away bushranging and to cross the briny sea.

Ben went to Goobang Creek, and that was his downfall;
For riddled like a sieve, was valiant Ben Hall.
'Twas early in the morning upon the fifth of May
When the seven police surrounded him as fast asleep he lay.

Bill Dargin he was chosen to shoot the outlaw dead;
The troopers then fired madly, and filled him full of lead.
They rolled him in his blanket, and strapped it to his prad,
And led him through the streets of Forbes, to show that he was dead.

Glossary:
Lachlan: River, valley, area of New South Wales in which Hall operated.
Station: Homestead, property, (ranch)
Traps: Police troopers
Goobang Creek: Creek in the area where Hall was shot, but probably a mistake in the words as Hall was betrayed by Goobang Mick, an acquaintance - whereas Goobang Creek is well away from the camp site where Hall was killed.
Bill Dargin: A black tracker - aboriginal employed as a native trooper. The police thought it safest to sent the native in to shoot the first shots ... just in case Hall was awake and armed.
Prad: Horse (a corruption of a Dutch word, paard).

This song was collected by John Manifold from Mrs Ewell from Bathurst, NSW. Source: The Penguin Australian Songbook, Penguin Books, Ringwood, Victoria, 1964, Compiled by J. S. Manifold.

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 13-Jun-02.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE STREETS OF FORBES (trad. Australian)
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 13 Jul 98 - 11:28 PM

G'day ...

I still don't have that break working (it was not in the HTML guide I looked up).

I will try once more.

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton

THE STREETS OF FORBES
(Said to be written by Ben Hall's brother-in-law, John McGuire on seeing the body paraded by the police troopers.)

Come all you Lachlan men, and a sorrowful tale I'll tell
Concerning of a hero bold who through misfortune fell.
His name it was Ben Hall, a man of good renown
Who was hunted from his station, and like a dog shot down.

Three years he roamed the roads, and he showed the traps some fun;
A thousand pound was on his head, with Gilbert and John Dunn.
Ben parted from his comrades, the outlaws did agree
To give away bushranging and to cross the briny sea.

Ben went to Goobang Creek, and that was his downfall;
For riddled like a sieve, was valiant Ben Hall.
'Twas early in the morning upon the fifth of May
When the seven police surrounded him as fast asleep he lay.

Bill Dargin he was chosen to shoot the outlaw dead;
The troopers then fired madly, and filled him full of lead.
They rolled him in his blanket, and strapped it to his prad,
And led him through the streets of Forbes, to show that he was dead.

Glossary: Lachlan: River, valley, area of New South Wales in which Hall operated.
Station: Homestead, property, (ranch)
Traps: Police troopers Goobang Creek: Creek in the area where Hall was shot, but probably a mistake in the words as Hall was betrayed by Goobang Mick, an acquaintance - whereas Goobang Creek is well away from the camp site where Hall was killed.

Bill Dargin: A black tracker - aboriginal employed as a native trooper. The police thought it safest to sent the native in to shoot the first shots ... just in case Hall was awake and armed.
Prad: Horse (a corruption of a Dutch word, paard).

This song was collected by John Manifold from Mrs Ewell from Bathurst, NSW. Source: The Penguin Australian Songbook, Penguin Books, Ringwood, Victoria, 1964, Compiled by J. S. Manifold.

Subject: RE: LYR Add: Streets of Forbes (collected)
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 14 Jul 98 - 11:54 PM

My interest in Australian trad music has waned somewhat recently, but your threads have rekindled my interest. Manifold has some excellent somgs in his collection, and there are a couple of beauties about bushrangers which I have seldom heard performed - I suspect that they are not in the DT. I am thinking in particular of Ye Sons Of Australia (about Ned Kelly) and The Death Of Ben Hall. The published versions are quite long, and have been condensed in the performances I have heard. I will post when I get the chance.

Regards John

Subject: RE: LYR Add: Streets of Forbes (collected)
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 15 Jul 98 - 01:05 AM

G'day John,

I just tried to check with the DT and got variable results. I'm sure that last time I found one of Sally Sloane's Ben Hall songs but just now I got a nil result on "Ben Hall" and Ben + Hall. I think that the song was the one starting:

"Come all you sons of liberty, a hero has been slain,
and cruelly butchered in his sleep, all on the Lachlan Plains."

I was set to considering connectivity by all this talk of Ben Hall. Maternal great, great, great grandparents were married in the same church, in the same year as Ben Hall and Bridget McGuire. However, I have a more direct link in Sally Sloane (3 steps to Ben instead of 5 steps to the same vicinty and period). Sally, who I got to know well, before her death some 14 years back, was delivered by Hall's sister - who still worked as a midwife some 40 years after Ben's death.

When I am sure what is and isn't in the DT, I shall post a few more Aussie songs. I have been currently pursuing some of the gems in John Meredith & Rex Whalan's "Frank the Poet". Frank MacNamara's work comes from two generations earlier and yet several have survived to the present day. See the ADD Lyr. thread on Moreton Bay (collected version).

The two generations is well illustrated by the fact that Ned Kelly's Jerilderie Letter appears to quote from Frank's "Convict's Lament for the Death of Captain Logan" - better known today as "Moreton Bay". John Meredith surmises that Ned's father 'Red' Kelly, may have known Frank while both were convicts in Van Dienam's Land (Tasmania) and learned the poem from Frank and later recited it to Ned.

Enjoy, up there in sunny Brisbane (although it is bright and clear today in Sydney, given that it is the dead middle of winter).

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: LYR Add: Streets of Forbes (collected)
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 15 Jul 98 - 02:31 AM

G'day again John,

I tried the DT at greater length and found that some of my syntax does not work well. When I searched on Ben Hall - with no quotes or ampersands - I got the Sally Sloane "Ben Hall" song ... which actually starts:
"Come all you young Australian ..."

The other Ben Hall song in the DT is "Streets of Forbes", from Trevor Lucas' singing, but I think it was transcribed very badly. That is why I submitted John Manifold's published version. Ben Hall is also mentioned in A.L. Lloyd's "Eugowra Rocks" song and John Meredith's collected version of "Frank Gardiner".

As I said earlier, I have been interested lately in the Frank the Poet canon. I spent some time refining down the various versions of "The Seizure of the 'Cyprus' Brig" to a manageable length and (by my preference) a strongly Tasmanian version. I have also posted all the constituent versions to a thread: LYR Add; Seizure of the Cyprus Brig. This includes some history and my preferred version. .. maybe someone with insomnia will read the lot!

I will look through some collections and see what needs to be posted to the DT.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: LYR Add: Streets of Forbes (collected)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 15 Jul 98 - 06:26 PM

Odd- I just did a search for [Ben Hall] ---the square brackets specify a phrase, and found it first off, along with some other songs that mention the gentleman

Subject: RE: LYR Add: Streets of Forbes (collected)
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 15 Jul 98 - 08:03 PM

G'day Dick,

Yeah ... As you will see by my last posting, I did find the entries, which I knew were there because I has seen them earlier. As I suggested, the problem was my search syntax. Thanks for the tip: [query text]. I was trying to achieve the same with quotes - which works in other places.

I had a look though the DT and found what was there in this area. There are indeed a few good songs on these bushrangers (and some other subjects) not in the DT - which I shall submit when I get around to typing up the lyrics. I have a magazine to publish before Tuesday 21 (... and a planned computer upgrade tonight!) ... so it will be next week ... post-"Mulga Wire" ... post-upgrade ... not poste haste.

I must also learn to submit the tunes in ABC format. I currently set music in MusicTime, which I find handy for publishing and for distributing music sheets locally since many musical friends run the same program. I can save from MusicTime into MIDI format but I don't know about conversion to ABC. I should go ask Mark Gregory, who runs an Australian Folksong page here in Sydney ... I'm fairly sure he is an ABC maven but any tips towards a good ABC program site would be appreciated.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: LYR Add: Streets of Forbes (collected)
From: alison
Date: 15 Jul 98 - 08:09 PM

hi bob,

If you can get it into midi then you can use Alan's Miditxt which will automatically translate it into ABC. You have probably seen the red writing in other threads and there is somewhere to click to get the program. Slainte

Alison

Subject: Tune Add: STREETS OF FORBES
From: alison
Date: 15 Jul 98 - 08:24 PM

Hi,

Now I know the tune is already there, this one is very slightly different but I'm posting it so Bob can get hold of the program so he can use it himself.

MIDI file: STREETSF.MID

Timebase: 480

Name: STREETS OF FORBES
TimeSig: 4/4 24 8
Key: C
Tempo: 100 (600000 microsec/crotchet)
Start
1440 1 57 032 0238 0 57 032 0002 1 59 025 0238 0 59 025 0002 1 60 025 0238 0 60 025 0002 1 59 023 0238 0 59 023 0002 1 57 030 0478 0 57 030 0002 1 64 035 0478 0 64 035 0002 1 64 036 0478 0 64 036 0002 1 64 038 1438 0 64 038 0002 1 64 040 0238 0 64 040 0002 1 66 030 0238 0 66 030 0002 1 67 040 0238 0 67 040 0002 1 66 033 0238 0 66 033 0002 1 64 032 0478 0 64 032 0002 1 69 053 0478 0 69 053 0002 1 69 037 0238 0 69 037 0002 1 67 038 0238 0 67 038 0002 1 64 032 1438 0 64 032 0002 1 64 036 0478 0 64 036 0002 1 69 042 0718 0 69 042 0002 1 71 027 0238 0 71 027 0002 1 69 033 0478 0 69 033 0002 1 67 032 0478 0 67 032 0002 1 64 026 0478 0 64 026 0002 1 64 032 0478 0 64 032 0002 1 60 027 0718 0 60 027 0002 1 60 025 0238 0 60 025 0002 1 59 034 0478 0 59 034 0002 1 60 036 0238 0 60 036 0002 1 62 030 0238 0 62 030 0002 1 64 027 0238 0 64 027 0002 1 62 029 0238 0 62 029 0002 1 60 029 0238 0 60 029 0002 1 62 030 0238 0 62 030 0002 1 64 028 1438 0 64 028 0002 1 64 030 0478 0 64 030 0002 1 69 033 0718 0 69 033 0002 1 71 024 0238 0 71 024 0002 1 69 036 0478 0 69 036 0002 1 67 040 0478 0 67 040 0002 1 64 022 1438 0 64 022 0002 1 64 028 0478 0 64 028 0002 1 62 036 0718 0 62 036 0002 1 64 019 0238 0 64 019 0002 1 62 038 0478 0 62 038 0002 1 60 026 0478 0 60 026 0002 1 59 026 1438 0 59 026 0002 1 57 027 0238 0 57 027 0002 1 59 029 0238 0 59 029 0002 1 60 018 0238 0 60 018 0002 1 59 021 0238 0 59 021 0002 1 57 026 0478 0 57 026 0002 1 64 030 0478 0 64 030 0002 1 64 028 0478 0 64 028 0002 1 64 026 0478 0 64 026 0002 1 69 028 0478 0 69 028 0002 1 69 030 0478 0 69 030 0002 1 64 020 0478 0 64 020 0002 1 60 026 0718 0 60 026 0002 1 62 021 0238 0 62 021 0002 1 64 022 0238 0 64 022 0002 1 62 031 0238 0 62 031 0002 1 60 031 0238 0 60 031 0002 1 59 027 0238 0 59 027 0002 1 57 026 1401 0 57 026
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:Streets of Forbes
M:4/4
Q:1/4=100
K:C
A,7B,|CB,A,2E2E2|E6E^F|G^FE2A2AG|E6E2|A3BA2G2|
E2E2C3C|B,2CDEDCD|E6E2|A3BA2G2|E6E2|D3ED2C2|
B,6A,B,|CB,A,2E2E2|E2A2A2E2|C3DEDCB,|A,8|
||

You see this clever program translates it into text and into ABC. All from a midi file.

Slainte

Alison

Subject: RE: LYR Add: Streets of Forbes (collected)
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 12:41 AM

G'day Alison,

... Oh, that Alan of Australia!

Thanks for the link. I will bend my mind to MusicTime - MIDI - ABC as soon as I get 'Mulga Wire' (Bush Music Club Magazine)to bed; about 1am next Wednesday morning). That is ... if nothing goes wrong with the computer upgrade (new CPU, more RAM and big new HD) tonight ... touch wood ... or should that be plastic (silicon?) for computers?

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: LYR Add: Streets of Forbes (collected)
From: Barbara
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 12:57 AM

Bob, let me offer you a small tip. I use MusicTime to transcribe tunes m'self, and I have found that Alan's program does convert them, but if you've written it out in quarter notes not eighth notes, it goes VERY slowly in the playback. Otherwise, the programs seem to work, tho I haven't gotten ABC to work yet so I can't tell how it sounds in that.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: LYR Add: Streets of Forbes (collected)
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 01:19 AM

G'day Barbara,

Thanks for your tip. I have found that MusicTime defaults play quite slowly and I always push the tempo up (from 100 to ~128). However, it sounds like your problems at the ABC (or MIDI) stage might be a bit greater factor than this.

I will find out when everything is running again (... please!) and, since I have all these tunes already set in MusicTime, I will compensate by pushing up the tempo (100 up to 200?) ... presumably do this at the stage before converting to MIDI.

If I have any real problems, I will address them directly to Alan. ... After downloading via a link on a site halfway around the world, I get a program from someone I know, and who lives about 20 minutes drive away ... referred by someone who lives about an hour's drive beyond!

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: LYR Add: Streets of Forbes (collected)
From: Barbara
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 03:20 AM

Bob, doubling the tempo might solve it, I dunno. I've been meaning to try it, but haven't got round yet. I have noticed (and you'll like this if you haven't discovered it yet) that I can save the MIDI playback from the CLICK HERE TO PLAY switch in the DTdatabase, and plug it into MusicTime. When I open the file in MusicTime I find it is usually in eighth notes (do you call them quavers or such, semi, hemi demi?)
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: LYR Add: Streets of Forbes (collected)
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 06:49 PM

G'day Barbara,

Thanks for the further tip. I will try that out when I next download a tune. I got into MusicTime because it was a fairly cheap program that laid out music pretty much the way I would write it. It has quirks ... but what doesn't?

I should, by national habit, use the English style and call the notes quavers, and I have to think in such terms in company of more classically educated musicians but I find it a lot more logical to think in fractional terms; ie quarter notes, whole notes. &c when laying out for publication. of course, these days the computer application looks after most of this for me!

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: LYR Add: Streets of Forbes (collected)
From: Barbara
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 07:10 PM

It may take a little searching, Bob. In Netscape communicator 4, which is what I have,in Windows Explorer the tunes get filed under 'My Program'; 'Netscape'; 'User'; and THEN 'cache'. There they show up as a two note icon with a cachy little title like 'M167nps0'. I drag and drop 'em in MusicTime and then open the 'all files' switch in the file menu. 'Click" and Shazam, there's the sheet music. In Netscape Com.4 the tunes remain in my toolbar after I close the Internet access.
Wasn't that fun?
If you've got a different system, you may have to wait till Joe Offer gets back from vacation and ask him.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: LYR Add: Streets of Forbes (collected)
From: alison
Date: 16 Jul 98 - 08:19 PM

Hi bob,

I'm much closer than you think....... I'm about 5 minutes beyond alan.

Slainte

Alison

Subject: Lyr Add: THE STREETS OF FORBES
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 26 Apr 00 - 09:15 PM

G'day,
Sang this song on hearme yesterday & Dick asked for the lyrics. They are somewhat different from the version in the DT & more familiar to Aussie ears.

THE STREETS OF FORBES

Come all you Lachlan men, and a sorrowful tale I'll tell
Concerning of a hero bold who through misfortune fell
His name it was Ben Hall, a man of good renown
Who was hunted from his station, and like a dog shot down.

Three years he roamed the roads, and he showed the traps some fun
A thousand pounds was on his head, with Gilbert and John Dunn
Ben parted from his comrades, the outlaws did agree
To give away bushranging and to cross the briny sea.

Ben went to Goobang Creek, and that was his downfall
For riddled like a sieve was valiant Ben Hall
'Twas early in the morning upon the fifth of May
When seven police surrounded him as fast asleep he lay.

Bill Dargin he was chosen to shoot the outlaw dead
The troopers then fired madly, and filled him full of lead
They rolled him in a blanket and strapped him to his prad
And led him through the streets of Forbes to show the prize they had.
^^
Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Streets of Forbes
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 26 Apr 00 - 11:45 PM

Thank'ee Alan (and Alison). The version in DigiTrad did com from a contributor in Oz, but variants are more than welcome.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Streets of Forbes
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 08:09 AM

G'day Dick,

I don't know who in Aussie who post those lyrics - certainly no one with local knowledge of the Lachlan. They are from an A L Lloyd record, and look suspiciously like they were via Martyn Wyndham-Read: lovely chap, but his memory for words sometimes produces the "Folk Process" in overdrive.

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Streets of Forbes
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 27 Apr 00 - 08:29 AM

I've been to visit Ben's grave in Forbes a couple of times, but I've never known whether the actual site of his death is known/commemorated. In the same graveyard as Ben Hall is the grave of Kate Kelly sister of Ned Kelly, the other well known Australian outlaw. Streets of Forbes is a truly remarkable song. Regards, John

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Streets of Forbes
From: Garry Gillard
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 05:44 AM

I've put what Martin Carthy sings here: pretty much what Alan sings. best, Garry

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Streets of Forbes
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 08:11 AM

G'day All,

John: Some years back now I visited Forbes and Rob Willis - very active song and folklore collector - took me out to the paddock where Ben Hall died. At the time there was a dead sheep in almost the exact spot!

Gaz: Martin Carthy's word's are not too bad, but there are some subtle points that are substantially correct in Alan's posted words and misleading in Martin Carthy's. The characters are real and the names and events are important. Billy Dargin was a black tracker with the police - the troopers didn't want to risk there own necks ... just in case Ben woke and fired back.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Streets of Forbes
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 28 Apr 00 - 11:54 AM

For everybody's information-

Somebody supplies the words in the DT.
If it's I, you'll see RG at the bottom; otherwise I pretty much accept what I receive. I suspect that "wrong" isn't really a word that can be applied to folksongs. Remember, Folksongs are always true, but seldom accurate.

Thanx for the contribution.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Streets of Forbes
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 05:04 AM

G'day dick greenhaus,

I was just trying to keep the clear facts: locality names and the names of people involved. I don't attempt to broach the bigger questions of honesty, bias etcetera. I have read research that puts many of the assertions of the song seriously at risk, but the song is just another testimony.

Besides, I have to be careful about connections and possible bias ... a set of maternal Great-great-granparents were married in the same church in the same year as Ben Hall and Bridget ... and, to top it all off Great-great-grandma seems to have been aunt to our other sanctified bushranger, Ned Kelly.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Streets of Forbes
From: Roo
Date: 29 Apr 00 - 07:45 AM

Went out to the paddock with Rob Willis late last year to see the same spot you did, Bob... no dead sheep there now...

And I think Rob made a good case for the lyrics being "Goobang Mick" rather than "Goobang Creek" (crick?)

Just thought I'd throw that one in. :)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Streets of Forbes
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 05:35 AM

G'day Roo,

Yeah ... I thought about mentioning that point but decided it was a bit obscure for ther general audience.

For the benefit of the bewildered, Roo's (and Rob's) point is that Goobang Crick (Creek) is in the opposite direction ... so Ben's downfall wasn't that he went to Goobang Crick - but, he was betrayed by Goobang Mick. This is a case where lack of knowledge of the locations and persons involved leads to changing a pertinent point to a generalisation.

Involvement and knowledge can edge one from being a folkie to being an archivist!

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Streets of Forbes
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 05:37 AM

G'day again,

Er ... and lack of attention to the HTML leads one to muck up the whole effect!

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Streets of Forbes
From: Annette
Date: 30 Apr 00 - 04:10 PM

You should hear the June Tabor version, on Ashes and Diamond I believe. Great version. The whole album actually...

Subject: RE: LYR Add: Streets of Forbes (collected)
From: GUEST,Mark
Date: 14 May 00 - 11:44 PM

Is the melody for "Streets of Forbes" original or is it the melody of another tune?

If so are the lyrics, chords and melody available?

Subject: RE: LYR Add: Streets of Forbes (collected)
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 15 May 00 - 08:45 AM

G'day Mark,

Manifold's notes in The Penguin Australian Song Book just say that "This version ... was sung to me in the back room of a Brisbane pub by a Mrs Ewell, late of Bathurst." I take this to mean that the tune is Mrs Ewell's ... presumably handed down - but not necessarlily the same as John McGuire's.

We can't know for sure, since we only have his words. However, the tune fits well into the Irish lament style of the day and is probably as "original" as any folk tune. One caveat is that Manifold was a trained musicologist and prone to "reconstructing" - tweaking a tune to correspond with his theoretical ideal. The only way to be sure would be to check back to some unarguable reference, such as a field recording tape, but Manifold did not leave a reference like the Meredith Collection tapes. I'm not sure that he did't simply transcribe by hand from his memory.

Anyway, it is a bloody good tune. If you give me an e-mail address I will send you a high res. black & white GIF file of the music from Manifold's book (not easily available now, but a real basic reference of the folk revival days of the '60s and '70s. (Oh, and there was a good cheap copy in a box behind one of the stalls at St Albans ... I meant to buy it as a spare but got distracted!)

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: LYR Add: Streets of Forbes (collected)
From: Percustard
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 11:54 PM

HI all,

I am still interested in exploring the tune that Mrs Ewell of Bathurst (me home town no less) used for Streets of Forbes (where my mum's father was born).

Any Irish lament songs that sound similar?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Streets of Forbes
From: GUEST,Josephine of Brisbane
Date: 21 Apr 04 - 09:04 PM

I don't have the reference with me but wasn't 'Streets of Forbes' written by Ben Hall's brother-in-law? This is one of the most grieving angry songs I know.
Josephine

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Streets of Forbes
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 21 Apr 04 - 10:29 PM

G'day Josephine,

It is generally believed that Streets of Forbes was written by John McGuire, Bridget's brother, Ben's brother-in-law and neighbour ... after seeing Ben's body paraded through Forbes by the Police troopers. I never tracked back to the source of that belief ... maybe I should!

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Streets of Forbes
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 10:53 AM

G'day again Josephine,

I now see that John Manifold, in his notes to Streets of Forbes, in The Penguin Australian Songbook, 1964 et sec., says:
"The poem was written - or at any rate written down - by Hall's broth-in-law John McGuire, an eye-witness to the ghastly procession. ... McGuire's manuscript has been reprinted by (Frank) Clune and by (Douglas) Stewart and (Nancy) Keesing."

This suggests that an identifiable holograph copy, in McGuire's hand exists ... but neither Manifold nor Clune are sources I would trust ... without checking the primary records!

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Streets of Forbes
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 23 Apr 04 - 09:06 AM

Rob Willis in his notes to the CD 'The Streets of Forbes' says it was 'reputedly written by Hall's brother in Law John Maguire" so it looks like even Rob couldn't verify it.

I've asked him if he has any more info.

sandra

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Streets of Forbes (collected)
From: Rowan
Date: 04 May 10 - 07:02 PM

For what it's worth, I've never heard the tune (as in Manifold) sung to anything other than this song.

And, in Oz, it's currently "early in the morning, all on the 5th of May"

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Streets of Forbes (collected)
From: mikesamwild
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 05:20 AM

I was interested in the song as the tune was sent by an Australian concertina player as an arrangement we played last weekend at a band day near Sheffield at Dungworth. Then I rembered June Tabor's version and Trevor Lucas and Martin Carthy etc. Good tune and an interesting history

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Streets of Forbes (collected)
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 18 Aug 10 - 12:13 AM

G'day mikesamwild,

It's one of the great 'Bushranger Songs' ... and has a well documented history back to those who knew Ben Hall. That's why I posted the 'collected' words - in contrast to the version from Trevor Lucas, who was always prone to 're-Englishing' our songs ... in ways that grated with me!

I won't say that John Manifold's published version has to be in its virgin state ... Manifold also had his revisionist tendencies ... and I don't automatically take his versions as "original" ... or even "unmodified". That said, this song, in Manifold's published form, got a lot of singing in the jeady days of the "folk Revival: ... and it's bloody hard to correct even one word in one line nowadays!

Regard(fully),

Bob