Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Songster Bob
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 10:56 PM

There is no greatest anti-war song ever because, just like with making things fool-proof, nature invents a better fool, no matter the strength of the anti-war song, some son-of-a-bitch goes and starts an even less-defendable war, overwhelming whatever song you can come up with.

It might be better to divide the songs up between specific wars, wars in general, the stupidity of wars, the cost of wars, etc., etc.

I'm reminded of one that John and Tony are given to sing, one from the "Big War," (#1) that went:

If you want to see the sergeant, I know where he is,
I know where he is, I know where he is,
If you want to see the sergeant, I know where he is,
Drinking up the company's rum.

I saw him, I saw him,
Drinking up the company's rum -- I saw him,
Drinking up the company's rum.

If you want to see the captain, I know where he is, etc.
Drunk on the dugout floor, etc.

... Colonel ...
In Paris at the Folies Bergere, etc.

... General ...
Pinnin' another medal on his chest, etc.


and the last verse:

If you want to see the privates, I know where they are,
I know where they are, I know where they are.
If you want to see the privates, I know where they are --
Hangin' on the old barbed wire.

I saw them, I saw them,
Hangin' on the old barbed wire -- I saw them,
Hangin' on the old barbed wire.


Peppy, singable, cynical, and so bloody true as to make you cry.

That's an anti-war song for me.

Bob

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 03:28 PM

I agree wiuth Ard Macha and Stringsinger, "johnny I hardly knew ya" is the best.
Mary Black did a wonderful version with De Danaan.
Makes your blood run cold; and the bastards are still there, murdering and mutilating......and we let them do it...Ake

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,cflpeace
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 07:46 PM

From one who loves the already-mentioned "Mothers, Daughters, Wives," "Great Peace March," "Masters of War," "With God on our Side," and "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda"...

From one that really appreciates Springsteen's "Born in the U.S.A." because it shows how this country dumps the vets into the street after they've used them up...

From one who says that "Good Morning Vietnam" was by far the greatest anti-war film (I know, I wasn't asked that) because it was the only film I know that protested wars not only for what they do to "our" soldiers, but also from the perspective of the ones called "the enemy"...

And, from one who is surprised to not see Jackson Browne's "Lives in the Balance" ("I want to know who the men in the shadows are, I want to hear somebody asking them why They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are But they're never the ones to fight or to die. And there are lives in the balance, There are people under fire, There are children at the cannons, And there is blood on the wire.")...

... I just wanna add Holly Near and David Rovics.

What could surpass Holly Near's "It Could Have Been Me" or "No More Genocide in My Name!"? Check out anything by Holly Near (http://hollynear.com). Holly sings both of the first two songs I listed at the top of this piece; she wrote the second. Some can be found at hollynear.com/lyrics; others can be googled. She wrote "It Could Have Been Me," in the sixties and updates it often, so there's a Viet Nam verse and an Central America one, among others:

A woman in the jungle so many wars away,
Studies late into the night, defends the village in the day.
Although her skin is golden like mine will never be,
Her song is heard and I know the words
And I'll sing them until she's free.
It could have been me, but instead it was you,
So I'll keep doing the work you were doing as if i were two:
I'll be a student of life, a singer of songs,
A farmer of food and a righter of wrong.
It could have been me, but instead it was you
And it may be me dear sisters and brother
Before we are through
But if you can work for freedom
Freedom, freedom, freedom
I can too.

http://www.hollynear.com/lyrics/it.could.have.been.me.html

Then there is the work of David Rovics (http://www.davidrovics.com/), the guy that wrote of bombing a village in Afghanistan, "Not one terrorist died there, but maybe some were born." This Jewish folksinger has the courage to sing out for Palestinian rights as well as against anti-Semitism and Naziism. (He has toured Palestine with that, and is now touring Hiroshima and Nagasaki and other Japanese cities.) He gives away his mp3s at: http://www.soundclick.com/pro/view/01/default.cfm?BandID=111310, but I suggest you buy his stuff too. Check out:

You ask me how it is
That I dare to take a side
You say I loathe myself
For pointing out that you have lied
You say it's tribal warfare
But I disagree
For the dynamics of the situation
Are not difficult to see
On one side is the fighter jet
On the other side the stone
On one side is the slave
On the other is the throne
For the many there are checkpoints
While foreign soldiers rule the street
For one side there is victory
But the people don't accept defeat.
The word you need to know is occupation
The very definition of a land without a nation
And if peace is what you're after then let us not deceive
It will come on the day the tanks return to Tel Aviv.

Read and hear it at: http://www.soundclick.com/pro/view/01/default.cfm?BandID=111310&content=lyrics&SongID=753230

But, hey you all, if you're reading all this, we gotta make sure we get it - as both Holly and David know so well: 1) Our songs have gotta be not just anti-war, but pro-justice, pro-peace, and celebrations of life, and 2) it's not enough to sing these songs; we gotta work all our lives for peace.

Peace,
cflpeace

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie)
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 09:06 PM

O they say that the war's nearly won,
And declare there's a change in the wind;
Amd my feet stumble on, and a year's come and gone
And they say that the war's nearly won.

Sweet peace, when will you come again?
You turn like a far star alone.
Will I ever be blessed with your innocent rest,
And be free and be safe and be home?

Still they say that the war's nearly won,
And declare there's a change in the wind-
And the years stumble on, and a thousand years gone,
And they say that the war's nearly won.

1971 Jean Ritchie   CELEBRATION OF LIFE Geordie Music Publishing Co.

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Mitch Gawlik
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 03:34 PM

A fair amount to pick from, but I'd go with:

Masters Of War - Bob Dylan
I Ain't Marching Anymore - Phil Ochs

And a song that applies now:
Cops Of The World - Phil Ochs

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 12:01 AM

I may have missed these above--
Tommy Makem's "Four Green Fields"
and another one which slipped by me whilst I was typing the above song....senior moment!

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,THE ONE
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 09:44 AM

ALL THINGS BRIGHT AND WONDERFUL.!!

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 10:11 AM

Tommys Lot by Dominic Williams,recorde by Dick Miles and Geoff Higginbotham.

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 11:10 AM

The first time I ever heard "Johnny, I Hardly Knew Ye" performed live in a coffee house, it was done with great dignity and passion, along with an obvious reverence to its origins and deeper meaning. It, along with "Mrs. McGrath," speak eloquently of conscripted soldiers, treated like "cannon fodder," as they have been for centuries. There have been many others, Dylan's "Where Have All the Flowers Gone," among many more contemporary songs. Gordon Lightfoot's "Patriot's Dream" also comes to mind. But, it is hard to argue with the real poignancy of the historical material and the poor souls that inspired it.

Subject: Lyr Add: JOHNNY I HARDLY KNEW YE
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 03:08 PM

Like trying to nominate "the world's greatest folk singer" or "the best guitarist in the galaxy," I take a dim view of most attempts at picking a "greatest" when it comes to songs or performers. [Now, "World's Most Abyssmal Idiot Elected to High Political Office," I could venture some strong opinions, but that's for another thread, and one below the line.]   However, as to very powerful anti-war songs, yes, I'd say there are some good ones.

Sometimes it's not the song itself, but how it's sung. One of the most powerful anti-war songs I've ever heard is the well-known Johnny, I Hardly Knew Ye—as Walt Robertson sang it. He sang what I later learned was a somewhat abbreviated version. He certainly knew the other verses, but he sometimes invoked "minstrel's prerogative" and made choices, to better express his own feelings about a matter. These were the words and the verses that he sang :

Johnny, I Hardly Knew Ye

With their guns and drums and drums and guns, hurroo, hurroo;
With their guns and drums and drums and guns, hurroo, hurroo;
With their guns and drums and drums and guns,
The enemy nearly slew ye.
My darling dear, ye look so queer.
Oh, Johnny, I hardly knew ye.

Where are your eyes that used to smile, hurroo, hurroo?
Where are your eyes that used to smile, hurroo, hurroo?
Where are your eyes that used to smile
When my poor heart you so beguiled?
How could you run from me and the child?
Oh, Johnny, I hardly knew ye.

Where are your legs that used to run, hurroo, hurroo?
Where are your legs that used to run, hurroo, hurroo?
Where are your legs that used to run,
When you ran off to carry a gun?
I fear your dancing days are done.
Oh, Johnny, I hardly knew ye

I'm happy for to see ye home, hurroo, hurroo;
I'm happy for to see ye home, hurroo, hurroo;
I'm happy for to see ye home,
But darlin' dear, you look so wan;
So lean in flesh and high in bone.
Oh, Johnny, I hardly knew ye.

No "While goin' the road to sweet Athy" (removing it from a third-person narrative and bringing it right home and making it very personal);   no anatomical assessment of the damage ("Ye haven't an arm, ye haven't a leg") and the rest of the bitterness in that verse;   and no idealistically angry vows about "They'll never take our sons again."

The way Walt sang it (which is the way I also sing it), it depicts a deeply personal tragedy in one family—which, by implication, is a situation possible for any family that has someone off in the wars. Rather than an angry—let's face it—propaganda song, it brings it home, and says, "This could be you" when you first see your soldier returned from the wars.

For a touch of bitterness in an anti-war song, it would be had to beat Eric Bogle's And the Band Played 'Waltzing Matilda' (the line, ". . . and I asked myself the same question."). He seems to have a real knack for packing a lot of communicable emotion into a song. Or even a single line.

To me, one of the most powerful anti-war songs I've ever heard (and just recently learned) is his The Green Fields of France (or No Man's Land).

Both songs from my notebook of song-sheets (both on disk and hard-copy):

The Green Fields of France (No Man's Land)
by Eric Bogle

How do you do, young Willie McBride,
Do you mind if I sit here down by your graveside?
And rest for awhile in the warm summer sun,
I've been walking all day, and I'm nearly done.
I see by your gravestone you were only nineteen
When you joined the great fallen in 1916,
I hope you died quick and I hope you died clean
Or, Willie McBride, was it slow and obscene?

CHO:
Did they beat the drum slowly, did they play the fife lowly?
Did they sound the dead march as they lowered you down?
Did the band play "The Last Post" in chorus?
Did the pipes play the "Flowers of the Forest?"

Did you leave a young wife or a sweetheart behind?
In some faithful heart is your memory enshrined?
And, though you died back in 1916,
In that faithful heart are you forever nineteen?
Or were you a stranger without even a name,
And closed in forever behind a glass pane,
In an old photograph, torn and tattered and stained,
And fading to yellow in a brown leather frame? CHO:

The sun shines bright on the green fields of France;
The warm summer breeze makes the red poppies dance.
The trenches have vanished long under the plow;
No gas, no barbed wire, there's no guns firing now.
But here in this graveyard that's still No Man's Land.
The countless white crosses are mute where they stand
To man's blind indifference to his fellow man,
And a whole generation who were butchered and damned. CHO:

I can't help but wonder, young Willie McBride,
Do those who lie here really know why they died?
Did they believe when they answered the call?
Did they really believe that this war would end wars?
The sorrow, the suffering, the glory, the shame;
The killing, the dying, were all done in vain,
For, young Willie McBride, it all happened again,
And again, and again, and again, and again. CHO (2):

© Eric Bogle

Don Firth

Subject: Lyr Add: THE YEAR OF THE DRUM (Wendy Joseph)
From: JennyO
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 05:58 AM

Here is a good Australian one, which was actually posted by jacko@nz on this thread in 2003. He didn't know the author, but mentioned that he thought Martin Wyndham-Read sings it. I have only heard it performed by Wongawilli myself.

The lyrics and the comments below are from Wongawilli's website. I will post them here because I think these words are probably the most accurate ones - particularly the spelling of the town, Mannum. I've actually posted it on a previous thread too, but it still hasn't made it into the DT.


This song from Wendy Joseph describes the tragic effects of the World Wars on several generations of the people of Mannum and the use of music to entice young men to war. Mannum is a small town on the lower Murray River and has the distinction of having lost more men per head of population in both World Wars than any other town in South Australia.

THE YEAR OF THE DRUM

(Wendy Joseph)

My name is Jack Gresham, I grew up in Mannum,
That river boat town I loved well,
I married Meg Davis, we had us two children,
One day our family bliss turned to Hell.
For in nineteen fourteen, 'twas the year of the drum,
The guns and the Government called me to come,
Past melaleuca and tall shining gums,
I drifted away down the Murray.

My name is Meg Davis and I work down at Shearers,
Making wagons and stirrups and hames,
The war it is raging, the men are all fighting,
The women toil here making fuel for the flames.
For it's nineteen fifteen and the men have all gone,
They're fighting in Europe so we carry on,
We're keeping the candles lit bright here at home,
To light their way back up the Murray.

My name it is Mary and I am an orphan,
My father was killed in the war,
My mother Meg Davis, an upstanding lady,
She drowned in the Murray the year I turned four.
It was nineteen sixteen when the telegram came,
The death of her soldier its message proclaimed,
My Mum lost her footing due to tears and the rain,
She slipped on the banks of the Murray.

My name it is Billy and I am a soldier,
I just got my orders to-day,
My wife's name is Mary, she's as fair as a sunset,
I hate to be leaving her lonely this way.
But the year's forty two, 'tis the year of the drum,
The guns and the Government call me to come,
Past melaleuca and tall shining gums,
I'm drifting away down the Murray.

But the year doesn't matter, there's always a drum,
The guns and the Governments call men to come,
But the town still grows strong in her tall shining sons,
While her daughters light lamps by the Murray.

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: kendall
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 07:36 AM

I used to think The Band Played Waltzing Matilda until I heard The Sun is Burning in the Sky.

Now the sun has come to earth,
Shrouded in a mushroom cloud of death,
Death comes in a blinding flash
Of hellish heat and leaves a smear of ash.
And the sun has come to earth.

Now the sun has disappeared
All is darkness anger pain and fear
Twisted sightless wrecks of men
Go groping on their knees and cry in pain
And the sun has disappeared...

That's what a nuclear war will look like.

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GRex
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 09:43 AM

Waltzing Matilda is the one that moves me the most.

Another favourite is one where every verse starts:
       He was only fifteen.
and the first line of the choruis is:
       And the sergeant said "Son, you must shoulder your gun."
I haven't yet found the title for, or, the writer's name for this song. Can anybody help please?

Another favourite is a song re WW1 by Barry Wake, (a local singer/ songwriter) called 'Tomorrow's Sun'.

       GRex

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,MikefromDorch
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 05:25 PM

I've read through the entire thread but no-one's mentioned a great song by the Belgian/French singersongwriter Jacques Brel, called La Colombe. Judy Collins did a great version of it in the 1960s. It tells of the conscripts boarding a train to go off to fight (presumably in Algeria) and is written from the poihnt of view of one of the soldiers asking 'Why?'. The last verse, from memory (English version):

And why your face undone
With jagged lines of tears
That gave in those first years
All peace I've ever known?
And why these days ahead
When I must let you cry
And live prepared to die
As if our love were dead?

Nous n'irons plus aux bois.
La colombe est blesse.
Nous n'irons plus aux bois,
Nous allons la tuer


The dove has torn a wing
But no more songs of love
We are not here to sing
We're here to kill the dove

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Rich(bodhránaí gan ciall)
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 05:30 PM

Being just past the anniversaries of Hiroshima and Nagasaki reminded me of this song

   Manhattan Project, Lyrics by Neil Peart

Imagine a time when it all began
In the dying days of a war
A weapon that would settle the score
Whoever found it first would be sure to do their worst
They always had before...

Imagine a man where it all began
A scientist pacing the floor
In each nation, always eager to explore
To build the best big stick
To turn the winning trick
But this was something more...

[Chorus:]
The big bang took and shook the world
Shot down the rising sun
The end was begun and it hit everyone
When the chain reaction was done
The big shots tried to hold it back
Fools tried to wish it away
The hopeful depend on a world without end
Whatever the hopeless may say

Imagine a place where it all began
Gathered from across the land
To work in the secrecy of the desert sand
All of the brightest boys
To play with the biggest toys
More than they bargained for...

[Chorus]

Imagine a man when it all began
The pilot of 'Enola Gay'
Flying out of the shockwave on that August day
All the powers that be, and the course of history
Would be changed forevermore

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Rich(Bodhránaí gan ciall)
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 05:35 PM

Rush - Territories Lyrics by Neil Peart

I see the Middle Kingdom between Heaven and Earth
Like the Chinese call the country of their birth
We all figure that our homes are set above
Other people than the ones we know and love
In every place with a name
They play the same territorial game
Hiding behind the lines
Sending up warning signs

The whole wide world
An endless universe
Yet we keep looking through
The eyeglass in reverse
Don't feed the people
But we feed the machines
Can't really feel
What international means
In different circles, we keep holding our ground
Indifferent circles, we keep spinning round and round

We see so many tribes overrun and undermined
While their invaders dream of lands they've left behind
Better people...better food...and better beer...
Why move around the world when Eden was so near?
The bosses get talking so tough
And if that wasn't evil enough
We get the drunken and passionate pride
Of the citizens along for the ride

They shoot without shame
In the name of a piece of dirt
For a change of accent
Or the color of your shirt
Better the pride that resides
In a citizen of the world
Than the pride that divides
When a colored rag is unfurled

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Mike B.
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 11:40 PM

A rather obscure 1916 rewrite of "Onward Christian Soldiers" (from the I.W.W.'s Little Red Songbook).

Christians At War (John F. Kendrick)

Onward, Christian soldiers! Duty's way is plain;
Slay your Christian neighbors, or by them be slain.
Pulpiteers are spouting effervescent swill;
God above is calling you to rob and rape and kill.
All your acts are sanctified by the Lamb on high;
If you love the Holy Ghost, go murder, pray and die.

Onward, Christian soldiers! Rip and tear and smite!
Let the gentle Jesus bless your dynamite.
Splinter skulls with shrapnel, fertilize the sod;
Folks who do not speak your tongue deserve the curse of God.
Smash the doors of every home, pretty maidens seize;
Use your might and sacred right to treat them as you please.

Onward, Christian soldiers! Eat and drink your fill;
Rob with bloody fingers, Christ okays the bill.
Steal the farmers' savings, take their grain and meat;
Even though the children starve, the Savior's bums must eat.
Burn the peasants' cottages, orphans leave bereft;
In Jehovah's holy name, wreak ruin right and left.

Onward, Christian soldiers! Drench the land with gore;
Mercy is a weakness all the gods abhor.
Bayonet the babies, jab the mothers, too;
Hoist the cross of Calvary to hallow all you do.
File your bullets' noses flat, poison every well;
God decrees your enemies must all go plumb to hell.

Onward, Christian soldiers! Blight all that you meet;
Trample human freedom under pious feet.
Praise the Lord whose dollar sign dupes his favored race!
Make the foreign trash respect your bullion brand of grace.
Trust in mock salvation, serve as tyrant's tools;
History will say of you: "That pack of Goddamn fools."

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Guitaropsimath
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 01:23 AM

The ones that made me think the most were (are) Universal Soldier, Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye, Sam Stone, and When a Soldier Makes it Home, but that Steve Goodman song about Penny Evans should be taught in school.

Doug

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Banjiman
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 03:35 AM

Two great songs that I haven't seen mentioned on the thread: The Malvinas (Dave Rogers) & Ghost Story (Jim Woodland). These are both about the Falklands but certainly cover universal themes. Roy Bailey does a brilliant job of both of them (as he does with most things).

Otherwise No Man's Land and The Bands Played Waltzin' Matilda. Eric Bogle's own versions please (though the version of Waltzin' Matilda that started the thread by the Pogues is also pretty good)

For something new which addresses Iraq have a listen here:
To Be A Soldier

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,NEIL
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 03:26 PM

WOW, WHAT A GREAT WEBSITE. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN PARTIAL TO "I AIN'T MARCHING ANYMORE", BUT MAN, THAT PENNY EVANS SONG BROUGHT TEARS TO MY EYES.
DOES ANYONE REMEMBER A SONG STEELEYE SPAN USED TO DO THAT BEGAN:
WHAT DID THE WIFE OF THE SOLDIER GET FROM THE (UNKNOWN WORD) CITY
OF PRAGUE?

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 12:47 AM

Canadian band Tanglefoot's Steve Ritchie's ong "Vimy" about the battle of Vimy Ridge WW1--will move you to tears.It can be found on the cd Music in The Wood.Incredible

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: t.jack
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 08:22 AM

This song i wrote,i call it "SOME MOTHERS SON"

I HAVE FISHED OFF THE GRAND BANKS
AND SEEN THE WHALES SPOUT
BUT THE FISH HAVE ALL GONE
LIKE THE TIDES THAT ROLL OUT.
SO I`M OFF TO ALBERTA TO WORK THE TAR SANDS
OR CARRY A GUN TO AFGHANASTAN.

OH MOTHER DEAR MOTHER THE BANK TOOK ME BOAT
NO MORE WILL YOU SEE HER SAIL THE EAST COAST
FOR THE WATERS ARE EMPTY NO FISH DO THEY HOLD
I`M OFF TO ALBERTA I`M GONE DOWN THE ROAD.

LOWER THE FLAG FOR ME WHEN I LEAVE HOME
OH MOTHER DEAR MOTHER I`M COLD AND ALONE
BUT DON`T WRAP ME IN IT IF I FIRE A GUN
IN SOME OTHER LAND AT SOME MOTHERS SON.

WAVE YOUR HAND FREELY LIKE THE CLOTHES ON THE LINE
WAVE AT THE GRAYHOUND AS SHE PASSES BY
FOR HES OFF TO ALBERTA TO PUT OIL IN THE DRUM
HES OFF TO ALBERTA HES SOME MOTHERS SON.

DON`T WRAP THE FLAG ROUND ME IF I FIRE A GUN
IN SOME FOREIGN LAND AT
SOME MOTHERS SON.

NORMAN DOUCETTE

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Joe_F
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 05:55 PM

The Revel:

In Digitrad

Then stand to your glasses steady.
This world is a world of lies.
Here's a sip to the dead already
And a cup to the next that dies.

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: kendall
Date: 04 Sep 09 - 08:51 PM

War, The ultimate failure

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 05:09 PM

Darwin mentions "specialization" in a species where the failure to adapt brings about its
demise.

War is that specialization for homo sapiens.

I think Tommy Sands deserves a mention for "There Were Roses" and "The Music of Healing".

When I heard Tommy Makem sing "Johnny, I Hardly Knew Ya'" I was mesmerized and
when it was done, I said, "That says it all".

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,John
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 07:12 PM

Can't Get You Out Of My Country

Julian Cope

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: 12barblues
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 08:18 PM

Mr Gunman - Vin Garbutt

If I Had A Rocket Launcher - Bruce Cockburn (there is a stunning live, solo acoustic performance on YouTube, as is a much less polished, but very effective, version by Brendan Croker). A bit controversial this one maybe, but imho you don't have to be a pacifist to be anti-war, or most wars at least.

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Smokey.
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 08:52 PM

Ritchie Havens' 'Handsome Johnny' (on the Woodstock film) gets me every time. That's as much about the sincerity of his performance as it is the song though.

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Glenn Cook
Date: 05 Sep 09 - 09:41 PM

Not one of the greatest perhaps but a great one
Ritchie Havens 'Hansome Johnny'.
See Woodstock for the performance.

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 12:06 PM

Just read in the Ottawa Citizen newspaper,Bruce Cockburn is playing his Rocket Loncher in Afghansthan? Says he believes in the mission?
Man am i ever lost sometimes more than most..

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 01:24 PM

I logged on here to register my vote; but I find Stringsinger had mentioned the song I was going to nominate less than a week ago. Never mind - here's another vote for it: surely one great strong contender to answer the question at the head of the thread has to be JOHNNY I HARDLY KNEW YOU

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 01:26 PM

... & for that matter, can't bear to go right back & count how many times it has been mentioned — but 'The Band Played Waltzing Matilda' has got to be right up there as well.

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Reiver 2
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 08:04 PM

There are so many outstanding anti-war songs, it's almost impossible to pick ONE. I can't help but put in my 2 cents worth, though. [And there are many listed above that I've not heard, and in picking the best I would want to consider both lyrics and music.] Of those I know I would make it a tie between "The Band Played Waltzing Marilda" and what I learned as "The Green Fields of France." It goes without saying, therefore, that I'd vote Eric Bogle as the outstanding WRITER of anti-war songs. {One that would be close is Buffy St. Marie's "Universal Soldier."] I just wish all of those mentioned on this thread could be sung and heard more often!! And that more who hear them would act accordingly.

Reiver 2

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: SuperKrone
Date: 11 Sep 09 - 10:00 PM

And this verse, purpose written although by who, to "Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye":

They're rolling out the guns again;
Huroo, huroo.
They're rolling out the guns again;
Huroo, huroo.
They're rolling out the guns again,
But they'll never take our sons again:
Johnny, I swear it to ye!"

How often we've been forsworn.
How many sons, and daughters, too, these days,
Hapless draftees or ambitious volunteers,
have been taken since then.

I am adamently against war, but I have lost the arrogance
that let me feel I could condemn the warriors.

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: TonyA
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 12:16 AM

Rich Man's War, by Steve Earle

Jimmy joined the army 'cause he had no place to go.
There ain't nobody hirin' 'round here since all the jobs went down to Mexico.
Reckoned that he'd learn himself a trade, maybe see the world;
Move to the city someday, and marry a black haired girl.
Somebody somewhere had another plan.
Now he's got a rifle in his hand,
Rollin' into Baghdad, wonderin' how he got this far;
Just another poor boy, off to fight a rich man's war.

Bobby had an eagle and a flag tattooed on his arm,
Red white and blue to the bone when he landed in Kandahar.
Left behind a pretty young wife and a baby girl,
A stack of overdue bills and went off to save the world.
Been a year now and he's still there,
Chasin' ghosts in the thin dry air.
Meanwhile back at home the finance company took his car;
Just another poor boy, off to fight a rich man's war.

When will we ever learn?
When will we ever see?
We stand up and take our turn,
And keep tellin' ourselves we're free.

Ali was the second son of a second son.
Grew up in Gaza, throwing bottles and rocks when the tanks would come.
Ain't nothin' else to do around here; just a game children play.
Somethin' 'bout livin' in fear all your life makes you hard that way.
He answered when he got the call;
Wrapped himself in death and praised Allah;
A fat man in a new Mercedes drove him to the door;
Just another poor boy, off to fight a rich man's war.

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: TonyA
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 12:19 AM

Roamin' Jack (from the U.S. Civil War)

It was on an autumn evening, an old man bent with age
Strolled up to the village express, just off of a dusty stage.
"Is this the express office? I've come to meet my son.
They told me that his train was due this place at half-past one."

"You've made a great mistake, sir, I would like for you to know.
This is the express office, not the town depot."
"You do not understand me, lad," with quivering lips he said.
"He's not coming as a passenger. He's coming to me dead."

Just then a whistle pierced the air. "The express!" someone cried.
And with feeble, trembling steps, the old man passed outside.
Just then a casket in a box was lowered to the ground.
It was an eager, tearful crowd that quickly gathered round.

"Don't handle him so roughly, boys. He is my darling Jack.
He went away as you are now. See how he's coming back.
He has broken his poor mother's heart. Mine is broken, too.
We told him that he'd come back dead if he joined those boys in blue."

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Amos
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 12:56 AM

I have always fallen back on "Last Night I had the Strangest Dream" for short eloquence.



A

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: eddie1
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 04:39 AM

We're never going to agree on "The greatest" - we all have our personal favourites but reading this thread is thought provoking and has reduced me to tears on several occasions.
One song that I play evry two or three weeks on my Radio programme (For those interested, "On The Road Again" on www.blast1386.com every Thursday between 1000 & 1300 UK time) I play Pete Seegr singing "Bring Em Home" The horrifying thing is that this song was written during the Vietnam era yet exactly the same kind of wars are happening today!

On reflection, I guess my favourite has to be "Strangest Dream" because it does not come up with clever answers, it doesn't try to apportion blame, it just tells of a wonderful dream. If only!

Eddie

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 08:46 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ5xZQVkhak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ5xZQVkhak
this one was written by Dominic Williams,I like it anyway

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 10:04 AM

All of those that have been meaningful to me have been mentioned, except one, and I've found a lot of strong ones here that are new to me. The one that I didn't find mentioned was "Touch A Name On The Wall", by Joel Mabus; it's particularly devastating to hear it conclude with "Never Again", coming from the Vietnam context, with us trying to imagine whatever end to the Iraq sacrilige.

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,tom franke
Date: 12 Sep 09 - 10:18 PM

frogprince, thanks for mentioning Joel Mabus's "Touch a Name on the Wall," one of my favorites in this genre. the lyrics are posted on Joel's site, at http://joelmabus.com/288_lyrics.htm#name%20wall.

Although there are a lot of great songs mentioned in this thread, I am moved most by those that tell a very personal story as opposed to the more didactic ones. Another in this category is "Teardrops Falling in the Snow" http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=32367, Unfortunately it is marred by the maudlin final verse about the mother and son meeting in heaven. I change the ending to "Scenes like this have been repeated, far too many times I know, Mothers waiting at the station, their teardrops falling in the snow."

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: sing4peace
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 08:36 PM

Greatest? Ever? I don't know about but I've been singing this one for over 40 years. It still makes me cry -

I Come And Stand At Every Door (also known as the Little Girl From Hiroshima) - Lyrics adapted from a Turkish Poem by Nazim Hikmet. Translated into English by Jeanette Turner. Adapted by Pete Seeger Music by James Waters,"The Great Silkie" (information courtesy of Where Have All The Flowers Gone? by Pete Seeger)


I come and stand at every door
But none can hear my silent tread
I knock and yet remain unseen
For I am dead -
For I am dead.

I'm only seven although I died
In Hiroshima, long ago
I'm seven now as I was then
When children die
They do not grow.

My hair was scorched by swirling flame
My eyes grew dim, my eyes grew blind
Death came and turned my bones to dust
And that was scattered by the wind.

I need no fruit, I need no rice
I need no sweets, nor even bread
I ask for nothing for myself
For I am dead
For I am dead.

All that I ask is that for peace
You fight today, you fight today
So that the children of this earth
May live and grow
And laugh and play.

---------

also in the cue (besides many already referenced by other posters):

God On Our Side - Bob Dylan
The Gentlement of Distinction - Malvina Reynolds
Political Science - Randy Newman
The Rainbow Race - Pete Seeger
The Merry Minuet - Sheldon Harnick
This World Is One - Charlie King

----------
In Peace and Song,
Joyce

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: CupOfTea
Date: 13 Sep 09 - 08:45 PM

So many of the songs mentioned have touched me with their eloquent depiction of the horrors of war. Some of these have been neutralized by being played too relentlessly often by those whose skill was not up to the quality of the song. For many years the song "Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye"" was like that for me. Then I heard it done by opera singer Ben Luxon. He played, toured and recorded two albums of traditional songs with the late Bill Crofut which were part of what drew me into traditional music. I saw them perform this song live. Bill set up a drum tattoo on the head of his banjo as the only backing to Ben's vocals. Performed in an operatic baritone, with more conviction than any other singer I've ever seen - it was VERY operatic - and you could easily imagine on the stage there with him was the lad "You havn't an eye, you havn't a leg, you're an eyeless, boneless chickenless egg..." and my body was covered in goosebumps. Every hair on my body stood up. I could barely breathe till he sang "I'm happy for to see you home..." Dunno if there's a "best" anti war song, but I'd mark this as the best performance of one in my life.

How a song functions best varies vastly. Some of the more complex or long have the most impact only when sung by those who are very good at it. Other songs are wonderful anthems for peace marchers - more simple, easy to learn, easy to sing. The more cynical songs like " "Hanging on the old barbed wire"" are good for getting folks engaged in the concept who don't realize they too MIGHT have antiwar feelings, but would never find themselves singing "those peacenick" songs.

I'm drawn to the "aftermath of war" sorts of songs. A pair I sing together are Richard Thompson's ""How will I ever be simple again"" and Margaret Nelson's ""Died in the War."" Margaret & Phil Cooper's version of ""Rosemary's Sister"" hits the civilian side of war's aftermath. Years ago I heard Robin & Linda Williams introduce ""Don't let me go home a Stranger"" as always reminding them of a veteran relative. Perhaps it's the gentle feel of thes songs with the message that war touches us all, for years after, that gives them a different sort of powerful impact.

Joanne in Cleveland

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 08:30 AM

Tommy Makem did the definitive performance of Johnny I Hardly Knew Ya' for me.

He starts the song with a mixture of anger for having been deceived and sarcasm at
the "doleful damsel's cry" with the right reaction of bitterness which the actor Tommy Makem delivered so convincingly.

Then the song takes a shift. "I'm happy for to see you home" is a plaint so heartbreaking.

This will always be one of the main performances I remember Tommy doing.
The other is "Dick Darby, the Cobbler".

Tommy's "Johnny" was for me the most potent comment on anti-war ever done.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: jaze
Date: 14 Sep 09 - 10:14 AM

The Day After Tomorrow--written by Tom Waits and sung by Joan Baez--about soldier in Iraq war

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: t.jack
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 09:12 AM

RIBBON TO A CHAIN

THERE ARE HEROS ON THE HIGHWAY
THERE ARE RIBBONS IN THE RAIN
WHEN THE WAR IS AT MY DOOR STEP
THEN THAT RIBBON IS A BALL AND CHAIN..

IN QUIET ROOMS AROUND NEW TABLES
OLD MEN SIT AND DREAM OF WAR
PROPAGANDA AND SPIN DOCTORS
YOUNG MEN DIE ON DISTANT SHORES

ACROSS THE CORNFIELD COMES THE ARMY
ACROSS THE RIVER ACROSS THE PLAINS
ACROSS THE OCEANS ACROSS THE MOUNTAINS
ACROSS THE CROSS THEY CARVE A NAME

JESUS WAS A LONELY HOBO
BEFORE THE CROSS HE LOOKED BOTH WAYS
TIPPED THE TABLES IN THE TEMPLE
YOU BETTER FIND A BETTER WAY

THERE ARE CHILDREN IN THE CRADLE
THERE ARE CHILDREN IN THE GRAVES
THERE ARE CHILDREN IN THE CORNFIELDS
THERE ARE CHILDREN THAT WON`T PLAY

         NORMAN DOUCETTE

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Martin Harwood
Date: 15 Sep 09 - 09:34 AM

Bogle's the modern master for me but from history how about Ye Jacobites (I get angry when I sing it) and The Flowers o the Forest (makes me cry - try Mairi Campbell's version with The Cast

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,PT
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 02:03 PM

Universal Soldier, Buffy St Marie

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: voyager
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 06:08 PM

Once we get away from the 'Greatest Ever....' frame of mind then I'd add these tunes to our list -->

The General - Dispatch

The Cutty Wren - Mudcat Thread

Arthur McBride - Mudcat Thread

Fixing to Die Rag - Mudcat Thread

I have a longer story about writing to Country Joe over the Copyright Infringement Lawsuit over FTDR.

Peace
voyager

Subject: RE: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 10:46 AM

When Margaret was Eleven - Pete St. John

Bogle's "And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda" as far as "lyrics : fact" is a mess.

Example:

"Oh its well I remember that terrible day
When our blood stained the sand and the water
How in that hell they called Suvla Bay
We were butchered like lambs at the slaughter"

Fact of the matter: The Landings at Suvla Bay were completely unopposed nobody died. The scenes Bogle is trying to described happened a couple of weeks earlier with the initial landings at ANZAC Cove.

If you are going to write a retrospective song "in the tradition" you should at least make some sort of effort to get it right.