BS: Vive La France

Subject: Vive La France
From: GUEST,JohnTm
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 12:01 PM

Why did the French plant trees on the Champs Elysee?
So the Germans could march in the shade

French army weapons for sale! Like New! Only Dropped Once!

How many French soldiers does it take to defend Paris?
Noone knows. It's never been tried

Subject: RE: Vive La France
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 12:22 PM

God, but I sometimes really wish the French had won out over the English in North America. Vive les États Unis...

Subject: RE: Vive La France
From: gnu
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 12:27 PM

You could always move to La Belle Province. They think the war is still on.

Subject: RE: Vive La France
From: Peter T.
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 12:34 PM

If you knew anything about American history, you would know that if it weren't for the French there would be no United States of America, because the Americans would have lost the Revolution without massive French assistance. By the way, the French lost probably 500,000 men in the defence of Paris in 1914, you stupid cochon, and another 6 million over the next 4 years in defence of France.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Vive La France
From: gnu
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 12:42 PM

You got that right Pete. They may have "lost" at times, but the French never lost anything with their backs turned. Anyone who thinks the French haven't got guts is just wrong.

Subject: RE: Vive La France
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 12:55 PM

Not to mention the siege of Paris in the Franco Prussian War, and the Paris Commune.

(Acrtually I can't imnagine that there'd have been any thought at all of an American Revolution among the English speaking colonists, if the French had won out in Canada. But there probably would have been a Francophone federation across much of the rest of North America, and the English colonies might even have joined in as junior partners eventually.)

Subject: RE: Vive La France
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 01:04 PM

Always enjoy a thread title with my name in it. Thanks. And, esp. thanks to PeterT!

Kat LaFrance, or "that's de La France to some of you what's got no manners!" *bg*

Subject: RE: Vive La France
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 01:18 PM

I am quite prepared to pop my head up over the parapet and suggest that a good old English tradition that seems to have been ignored for far too long is the tradition fo going over the channel mob handed and beating the crap out of the whole bloody country.With fond thoughts of Agincourt,Crecy,Waterloo and such.

Subject: RE: John Tm iz a turd
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 01:21 PM

EOM

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Peter T.
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 01:27 PM

Not to mention the Norman Conquest. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 01:39 PM

Have you noticed we always have to have a scapegoat, someone to blame? I think because most of us are uneasy these days some of us lash out at anyone/any country who attracts attention. We don't want to consider the possibility that they are right. France, Germany, ALL of Europe, know what war is, many remember the actual days and most lost members of their own families. I don't know how to explain Britain. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: alanabit
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 01:47 PM

Leadfingers, allow me to correct your misconceptions about Agincourt.
Henry V took a marauding bunch over in the Spring and Summer 1415 - ostensibly to establish his claim to the French throne. (Incidentally, this claim was so risible that even Shakespeare derided it very funnily at the beginning of his hagiography "Henry V"). Henry and his hooligans had a good time besieging snaller towns like Harfleur and starving their citizens to death. When he heard that the French - not surprisingly - were taking exception to these activities and sending a large army to expedite his departure, what do you think he did? Did he rush to confront them, or march on Paris? The Hell he did, he bolted for Calais to get the next ferry home. Slowed down by exhaustion, lack of any more plundered supplies and dysentry, his army failed to cross the Seine in time. With woods behind him and a very large French army in front of him blocking his way to the Seine, he did the only thing he could do. He stayed where he was. It was now late October and the wrong end of the hooligan season. He prayed for the only two things which could save him. He needed rain (usually a fair bet for a Brit) and incredible stupidity on the side of the French. He got both.
In short, the French were provoked into attacking over a narrow area into thick mud into which the English had driven stakes. I am sure I do not need to explain why this was a bad idea for cavalry whose armour could be pierced at between two and three hundred metres by the longbows. So the French army was massacred on the day. And did Henrý then march on Paris?. You bet he didn't! It was all aboard the TGV for Calais and the next ferry home. When Henry landed, he bared his head and walked along in penance. He was dead two years later from dysentry.
In short, Agincourt was fought because the English had lost the campaign and were trying to run away and get back home. It was a brilliant opportunist military victory on the one hand. On the other hand, it was part of a nasty, unjust and sordid campaign which we lost. I don't think we Brits should feel so smug about it. Henry certainly did not!

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: GUEST,JohnTM
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 02:26 PM

Trouble with this site. Noone has a sense of humor

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 02:42 PM

Without the French, the US would have been taken over again in the War of 1812. Napoleon kept the British busy.

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: okthen
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 02:44 PM

Who on earth taught them to play Rugby,and why weren't we content to stick to the 4 nations, it would have made things a lot easier.

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 03:06 PM

I did say I was poping my head up over the parapet alan.Sometimes I feel the urge to do a bit of stirring !!!
And thank you for the background information . Just goes to show the French are not as clever as they think they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 03:06 PM

Today's Rugby result: France 38: Scotland 3 Oh dear!

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 03:15 PM

Boycott French fries- go back to Chips!

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Gareth
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 03:50 PM

Oi !! - Agincourt ?? Crecy ?? Sluys ?? Typical !!! English General leads Welsh troops into ambush. Welsh Longbows slaughter French.

With respect, the Normans were of Viking origin - hence Norse Men - they only had to deal with the Saxons, when William the Conk tried to march into South Wales the South Welsh murdered them at Machen in the Rhymney Valley, a battle written out of English history.

Machen Abbey was errected as a thanks gift to God for the succes of the combined Arms of Morganw and Senghenydd.

Gareth from Ystrad Mynach - an outpost and Grange of Machen.

Ps Didn't French Fries originate in Belguim ??

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 03:53 PM

Gareth: always good to see the Welsh side put forward!

But why do you say that "William the Conk tried to march into South Wales the South Welsh murdered them at Machen in the Rhymney Valley, a battle written out of English history."
Surely this was never a part of English history. We can't have it both ways!

Hwyl Fawr
Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Gareth
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 04:05 PM

Oh I can, Oh I can, this was some time after 1066, about 1080 ish.

The English do not advert to Machen !!!! Where to quote the bard, "The River Rhymney ran red with forign blood" - sorry I cant find the Cymry text at the moment, but Idris Davies does a good translation. - I'll post this in good time.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 04:08 PM

Boycott Belgian chocolates as well! I think Bush has relegated the Belgians to the ranks of no-count nations along with Germany and France. No more strudel! Potatoes Duchesse! Bush could end up with 'possum and cornpone.

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 04:10 PM

Yo! GUEST,JohnTM! I have a sense of humor!

However.... One of my formerly favorite websites for off-the-wall humor, www.joecartoon.com, home of microwaved gerbils, frogs in blenders, jive-talkin' flies etc., is now marketing a "France Sucks" tee-shirt. Apparently, webmaster Joe has problems with the French refusal to lie down and let Mr. Bush drive an armored personnel carrier over them. I don't find the shirt to be funny at all. In fact, I am a bit curious as to why a guy who is trying to make his living off of a basically non-political humourous website would want to alienate some of his visitors by spouting his right-wing Francophobe politics in such a manner.

Bruce

(Whose French Protestant ancestors were chased across the Rhine into Germany by an angry mob of French Catholics many years ago.)

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 06:39 PM

Pretty ironic I guess, that the French are being accused of being spineless because they're standing up against the world's only superpower and not letting it push them around.

Ebbie, it's a (somewhat pathological) form of recreation for the English to bash the French. I know because I have to keep reminding people I know who were raised in British Commonwealth nations that I am part French.

(I'm also part English. And part Orange Irish, and part Green Irish, and part German, along with the French. I'm constantly fighting with myself ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Gareth
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 06:42 PM

Don't call me English !!!!!

Gareth *BG*

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: GUEST,JohnTm
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 07:05 PM

I was hoping some one would post some sort of joke.

Peter T. There would not have been a USA if we had not kicked the French out (with the help of our British allies :) )in the French and Indian Wars. Montcalm had the decency to die outside Quebec after turning savage onto the helpless women and children. If the French had won, we could have had the pleasure of living through the glorious French Revolution, The Terror and the wonders of Napoleon (whose tomb in Paris is a monument to bad taste).
The massive French assistance in our revolution (which had a postive result unlike the farce of 1789) was given because Comte de Vergennes wanted revenge against the English and to seize the West Indies.

The French lost so many killed and wounded in WWI because of the ineptitude of its generals and politicians. It lost the Franco Prussian War because Louis Napoleon was a fool and his generals were fools. France's record in WW11 was a disgrace. How many Frenchmen died serving in volunteer units that fought in Russia alongside their Nazi allies? More than died in France after June 6, 1944? But then everyone was a member of the Resistance. Ha. (The Bulgarians, whom Chirac threatens, at least had the decency not to turn over its Jewish citizens to the Gestapo. Would that La France, the land of Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite, had been so gallant. Mais non, the French were too busy pocketing the paychecks of German soldiers.

French hypocrisy continued in Algiers when racism and brutality could not prevent the first defeat of a Western army by the Muslims since the Crusades. The less said about Dienbienphu the better. Not to mention the force de frappe.

Chirac would be in county jail on corruption charges in this country.

Somebody some send in a French joke. Aside from the latest pronouncement of French policy by those clowns in Paris. The rats that roar.

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Peter T.
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 07:39 PM

Given that you haven't had the decency to admit that you were full of shit in your first slanderous post, it hardly makes any sense to get to work on this latest pile of merde, does it? yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 07:51 PM

Making jokes about your friends is often funny. Making jokes about people who are in the room is sometimes brave. Making jokes about your derby rivals, who have to be your neighbours - French and English for example - is traditional.

But when big nations get their knickers in a twist because a relatively smaller country is refusing to roll over and play dead, that isn't particularly funny or impressive.

Chirac is a crook, true enough, like most presidents in most countries seem to be, including the ones who got selected rather than elected. But unlike in England, the French probably wouldn't put up with a guy at the top who totally ignored their overwhelming opposition to this war and cosied up to Bush, so he's doing what he's told by them.

It's a long time since the American Civil War. Most Americans just don't have a conception of what war on their own soil is like.

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Troll
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 09:51 PM

So sorry to disappoint all of you who praise the gallant Chirac for standing up to the big, bad bully but it ain't for the reason you'd like to think it is.
The sad truth of the matter is that La Belle France has been trading with Saddam for the past twelve years and has allowed Iraq to run up a multi-billion dollar debt. They also hold billions of dollars worth of oil contracts that a new regiem would probably not honor. Ditto the IOU"s. The situation with Russia is somewhat similar and the sale of advanced technology has been linkes with German companies.
Everyone says that Bush wants war because of the oil. Are you all so naive that you think that the US is the only nation who is interested?
Follow the money, people. Follow the money.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Troll
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 09:59 PM

I can't provide attirbution for the abovr because I read most of the information in an article in the Asahi Shimbun, an English language newspaper, in Tokyo last fall. I have absolutely no idea where to find it now.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 10:04 PM

As I said, all Presidents tend to be crooks in both countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: GUEST,JohnTM
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 10:36 PM

Peter T
If you under idi f gavno you know what the Russians as they ran from Moscow

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 11:33 PM

They make some damn fine wines...........

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Peg
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 11:47 PM

I for one was thrilled to hear that Germany and France were willing to suggest that their automatic alliance with the USA could be called into question. If indeed it is over money, what of it? Seems to me they want to plan for the future, like all of us. Unlike Britain, France and germany see brighter days ahead. But if this war takes place, it's the beginning of the end.
Yes, that's simplistic.
C'est la vie, c'est plus simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 11:49 PM

You keep pointing fingers at France, troll. And you call it the truth. But you can provide no attribution for your assertions. Sounds more like a very desperate attempt to divert people's attention away from who the real bad actors are in this situation. If you can't provide any documentation that can be cross-checked, it's nothing more than rumor. Probably planted by people who have an axe to grind.

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Feb 03 - 11:56 PM

One more point. The US has financial motives for wanting to wage war. troll maintains that France has financial motives for wanting to prevent a war.

Hmmm... Which one? Which one? Which position holds the higher ground? Which is the greater evil? Killing people for money, or not killing people for money. Gee, that's a tough one.

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Hrothgar
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 05:52 AM

At least the French won the great and glorious Battle of the Rainbow Warrior - the only naval success they have had in over 200 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Strupag
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 07:52 AM

What about the British then? No not out spineless "leaders", but the millions who took to the street on the 14th. Since they tend to be more repreasentive of public opinion, are we the people, yellow bellied and spineless just because we don't automatically swallow the Bush line?

Je ne croit pas!

Le tasse

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Catarina
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 10:20 AM

I dont't believe Napoleon can be held responsible for his tomb, he didn't draw the plans for it...
Generaly speaking, the french do tend to have a high opinion of themselves, but then again, so do the americans,and the english, and... The problem shouldn't be to find out who's the best, or the greatest or which country helped wich and when. Probably every country in Europe has already been at war with every other country in Europe at least once sometime in the past. We don't need to recall that. It's petty isn't it?
Since the subject is Vive La France, they do have wonderful poets and writers, great music, wonderfull food, great cheese and wine, beautiful cities and so on. Of course they made a few mistakes. Who didn't? If they don't agree with the US, so what? Is it compulsory?

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Peg
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 10:29 AM

The Rainbow Warrior was a Greenpeace ship; blown up by the French in a New Zealand harbor...

Hardly a battle...and it was a fuck-up, certainly. I tend to equate it with events at Kent State University, or the 1969 Democratic Convention...

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: weepiper
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 03:03 PM

Well, I was in Paris visiting friends on the 15th and we went on the anti-war march, along with about a million (I'm not kidding) others. I'm with the French on this one. So 'degage, putain de con!' to the starter of this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: GUEST,graycolorscheme
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 03:35 PM

For all who wish to see true French motives, it might be helpful to view www.stratfor.com , an independent intelligence corporation. Chirac and Hussein have been pals for upwards of 25 years. The Israelis destroyed a weapons grade nuclear reactor in Iraq in 1982... built by the French.
By the way, what is this "French for Peace" business? Whoever considers the current domestic state of affairs within Iraq as peaceful is a lunatic. Anyone holding a Bible (whether you believe or not) is executed on the spot. Saddam has a professional rapist on his payroll. He has murdered over 20,000 of his own (Kurdish) citizens with Cianide, mustard, and nerve agents.
    Not entering this war is a cop-out. I am willing to bet France would find itself hard-pressed to muster support for a war if it's OWN BORDERS were being attacked. Read Plato's Republic for examples and reasons why.
    By the way... EUROPE is divided on whether it should support a war in Iraq. France is outspoken, and germany attempts to back them in their shadow. When French support waivers German support fails (NATO Turkey situation). I don't even want to get into the belgians, wholost all repectability when they fled a scene of mass murder in Rwanda, letting 800,000 civilians be murdered.
    Oh, and another thing... We backed the French in the 1960's with their "Imperial troubles" in Vietnam. We ended up paying for 75% of their war fees and losses for them. They then, promptly (once again) put their tails between their legs and fled French Indochina... Thanks alot...

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 03:43 PM

Can you provide any documentation to support your assertions, GUEST,graycolorscheme?

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 04:00 PM

Any of you shitstirring GUESTs (NB that doesn't mean that I'm implying that all GUESTS are shitstirrers) interested in music or songs?

Here's a link to a song in a current thread that is sort of relevant.

Basically in Dad's Army language, it strikes me "They don't like it up 'em..."

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 04:17 PM

If the French are all a bunch of wimps because they don't care to join in the pig-pile, it seems they have a lot of company.

Voici

Don Firth
(Some folks think that MacDonald's invented French fries. . . .)

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 04:29 PM

Tariq Aziz, Iraq deputy prime minister and Iraq spokesman is a Christian. Religion is the last thing this particular war-to-come is about.

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 04:40 PM

When you get down to it, religion is generally the last thing any wars are about, including so called "wars of religion".

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 05:19 PM

Oh, and another thing... We backed the French in the 1960's with their "Imperial troubles" in Vietnam. We ended up paying for 75% of their war fees and losses for them. They then, promptly (once again) put their tails between their legs and fled French Indochina... Thanks alot...

This would perhaps be funny if it weren't so sad. Basically, what this says is that the US is much more effective at being an imperialist power than France. This is something to brag about?

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 05:36 PM

Guest,graycolorscheme, you really need to look at your sources a lot harder before ranting. As Q pointed out, Saddam doesn't care about religion; Iraq is a secular state. That bit about the professional rapist was addressed on another thread. The booking form said "activity," meaning profession, but was misinterpreted as meaning the activity he was charged with. AS far as quoting Plato's Republic, there really isn't anything in there which is relevant to France. Plato didn't include a representative democracy in his list of governments, and his conclusions are incredibly elitist and restrictive of civil liberties.

Subject: RE: BS: Vive La France
From: GUEST,An Pluiéir Ceolmhar sa bhaile
Date: 24 Feb 03 - 07:25 PM

GCS, there's also plenty of old footage of Bumsfeld cosying up to Saddam from years ago. And Saddam thought he had the OK from the US Ambassador to invade Kuweit. She would hardly have been so relaxed if she didn't think she was interpreting the political steer from above fairly accurately.

I wouldn't have much respect for Chirac, but the fact that he's a corrupt cynic doesn't make his position wrong on the war-lust of the Bushies.