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WEIGHT discrimination in music world...
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: GUEST,Claire Date: 25 Feb 03 - 02:42 PM The original question is -have you felt slanted as a performer because of your weight. Since I started performing (12 or so years ago), I have regularly received comments about my weight, so I thought I would share them with you. I must be of that in between weight where people still think they can broach the subject. When I get on stage, I want it to be all about the music. I take precautions to feel good about the way that I look so I dress to my advantage - usually upscale from the crowd, in a skirt or dress (to mask a bit of my rounder parts). When I perform, I completely forget that I am bigger than the average person, which is sometimes hard, since one of the things I do is appalachian clogging (talk about bounce). I generally feel really attractive and I choose to assume that others can feel my pleasure in being there. Just how big am I? Give or take, I have weighed the same since high school, when I felt HUGE compared to my fellow class mates. Now, at 40, others have passed me by in the weight department and I am still muscular and stocky, pretty darn curvy, and not even close to skinny. I am of the opinion that you are what you are, and there is little you can do to change that if you eat reasonably and excercise reasonably, diet when need be, but then my body shape has stayed fairly stable throughout my life. The comments,,, A woman came up to me and told me that she found me inspiring because she never thought a woman of her size could enjoy clogging. A man repeatedly told me I should work out becuase with my "big" arms, I could get really cut. (just last week again, if fact) I have been told several times how "strong" my legs are and that they know someone else with big legs like me. Someone yelled, "what kind of bra do you where" after I had clogged. I sort of collect these gems! Whatever your shape - someone is inspired by it... and someone thinks your amazing or beautiful - just because you have the guts to put your heart on the line and to do something special. Someone may think your fat... oh well, their loss. Good luck and keep performing, Claire |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 25 Feb 03 - 03:59 PM People My Age People my age have started looking gross I cannot say all, and I shouldn't say most I've seen 'em in the grocery and I've seen 'em up close People my age have started looking gross People my age are showing some wear There's holes where their teeth was And their heads have gone bare Faces shrinking into fat And as for the mirror We won't be looking into that People my age have started looking gross Maybe not in Colorado or up the Silicon Coast Back in North Ontario I ate my poutine on toast Those were my first steps On the road to looking gross People my age are looking overripe Some are getting operations To tighten up what ain't tight What gravity's ruined They try to fix with a knife What's pleasant in the darkness Is plain scary in the light gross... ,-) |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: JennyO Date: 25 Feb 03 - 10:23 PM 'Onya Claire. Keep on clogging! Hey I just had an idea for the Silver Satin site - "Chubby Chic"! Jenny |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Terry K Date: 26 Feb 03 - 01:49 AM I once read that heavy drinking is the worst thing for putting on weight, so I cut down dramatically, and nowadays I hardly ever read at all. cheers, Terry |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: MAG Date: 26 Feb 03 - 11:37 AM Er, Claire, what kind of bra keeps you in place for vigorous dancing? It sure ain't the athletic bras. -- MA |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: mg Date: 26 Feb 03 - 11:58 AM here is some information on metabolic body typing. If you need certain foods and don't get them, you will be at health risk. Just because someone else gets by with a different diet, doesn't mean you will. Hard for families to understand...but different family members might need different foods. http://www.mercola.com/2003/feb/26/metabolic_typing.htm I don't know what my perfect diet is. Very high protein, in fact the high purine proteins, high fats, high vegetables, almost no starches or sugars....I'm still not doing something right but I know how much more wrong I could be..I think I'm not eating often enough..also, if you are very hypoglycemic they say to try to get someone else to fix your meals..I find I did better when I ate lunch out almost every day since that is my worst time of the day. mg |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Kim C Date: 26 Feb 03 - 12:04 PM Yep. Ditto what everyone else said about self-confidence. If your size doesn't bother you, it won't bother anyone else who matters. Generally speaking, I have always been attracted to tall skinny men. I married one. But - here's a little-known secret. I think John Goodman is sexy. He has twinkly eyes, a sweet smile, a wonderful voice, and - guess what? - TONS of confidence and charisma. I saw a photo of him when he was a much younger, and smaller, actor - yes, he was good-looking, but it wasn't the same. Big John ROCKS! Before I got married I dated a large man. Dave wasn't what I would call fat, really, but he was large. And devastatingly handsome. I have a friend who writes incredibly witty songs and plays a mean clawhammer banjo. She's only about 4'8". I don't know exactly how tall she is because I never asked her, because I don't really care. I did overhear someone ask her once, though, and her answer was, "I think you can find something more interesting to ask me about." Size shouldn't matter, but some people are inconsiderate. Don't let them bother you. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: lloyd64 Date: 26 Feb 03 - 12:29 PM So Gargoyle is still around. I have not read a thread for over six months and what do I find, Gargoyle is still hanging around. I'm sorry to see that things never change. Bye folks. Lloyd 64 |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: AggieD Date: 26 Feb 03 - 01:26 PM Having been overweight since a child, I am quite an expert on weight loss (or lack of it). I have been to see one of the top clinical dieticians in the UK & his opinion was that the only way for someone who has an inherited problem (both my parents come from families with obesity problems)is to diet for the whole of their lives. I know I have been there & done all the yo-yo diet bit & although I danced Morris, clog & folk for nearly 20 years still have a problem & I take a good walk every day. I have now been given a very low fat diet, which if stuck to will gradually lose weight, & believe me if you lose weight too fast, your body craves what it has missed & you soon lose heart & the weight just merrily piles back on. Gargoyle, shame you are such a stupid ar*****e, just being supercilious about weight does no intelligent person any credit. I have seen some fabulous performers, both thin & fat & I often wonder whether the thin ones don't look in need of a good meal. I think looking pasty & grey wrinkled & skinny is far more of a turn-off in a person, whether musician or not, than a bit of wobble. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: GUEST,Ely Date: 26 Feb 03 - 02:01 PM I think it's idiotic, and I agree that the folk scene is more accepting than a lot of others, especially at the utterly amateur level at which I participate. I went to a folk/rock/Americana festival last fall that included a full range of "fame", from strictly local to international stars, and all of the well-known women looked alike. Young, thin, and blonde. Half of them couldn't even sing that well. By far the best acts all weekend were comparatively odd-looking, unsexy, local talents. These were performers who were extremely talented, hard-working (I've seen their tour schedules), and appreciative, so it's not as though they don't deserve to be famous. Of course, there are other factors that contribute to fame (such as willingness to turn to pop music, but that's another set of complaints), but it does raise your eyebrows. Personally, I don't care. I have a longstanding crush on a rockabilly musician from Austin who's built like Santa's grandson and has the voice of an angel. I've never been fat (I used to be "a little round", but my mother thankfully didn't tell me that until I'd lost 25 pounds), but Simon on "American Idol" would probably still tell me to lose weight if I wanted to be famous. On the other hand, I work for a veterinarian and I'd *love* to see Britney Spears try to lift an anaesthetized 80-pound golden retriever and carry it across the room to the surgery table. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Kim C Date: 26 Feb 03 - 02:14 PM Actually..... Britney works out every day. She probably could lift the dog. So could Madonna. Shania Twain might be a better example. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Beccy Date: 26 Feb 03 - 02:15 PM People come in all shapes and sizes... I'm one of those string beans- always have been and probably always will be- I have to get pregnant to gain weight (I'm on the 9 month weight gain plan, right now...) I have to say, I'd love to have a bit of meat on my bones. I think people who have some meat on 'em look healthy and gorgeous. Being heavy does not equal being slouch or being out of shape. My little sister is heavier than I am and she can hike circles around me. She's a wunderkind. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Naemanson Date: 26 Feb 03 - 03:16 PM I'm 6'3" tall and weigh in at about 360 pounds. Very little of that is muscle. I have a big gut and it gets in my way all the time. I am tired of it but don't seem to be able to do anything about it. I can tell you from experience that it helps to have a good attitude. When I am in a good place in my head there isn't a person on Earth who can shake me. That hasn't been the case lately but I'm getting back there. Be that as it may, singing on stage is one of those places where you are easily cowed by others. You can't let that happen. You know you have talent and you know you can perform. Other people may have opinions but those are not yours and what they think can not hurt you unless you let it. Be yourself and know that you are pleasing the one person on Earth who really matters, you! The rest of us are secondary. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Kim C Date: 26 Feb 03 - 03:46 PM Being on stage is not unlike walking naked down the street! It is kinda scary up there. I guess we have to let what we do speak for itself. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Dave Bryant Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:32 AM Of course the folk scene is size-ist - the touble is that all these skinny people let the side down (we really must fatten up the likes of Raphie). Where would the folk scene have been without performers of the stature of Brenda Wooten, Jim Couza, Shirley Hart, Rosie Hardman etc. I can remember a night with Cyril Tawney as the guest - when he was rather corpulent - the opposite of "The lean and unwashed Tiffy". Someone in the audience was heard to remark "If that belly was on a woman, I know what I'd say." Cyril retorted, "It was on a woman last night - what have you got to say lad ?" Finally every time I go to a session of UK Mudcatters, I always seem to hear "Sixteen Stones" or the "Chocolate Song"........ |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: AggieD Date: 27 Feb 03 - 01:38 PM Rosie Hardman was such a wonderful singer that she made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end & she never seemed to have a problem getting the fellas either. Anyone know where she is now? |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 27 Feb 03 - 02:16 PM "Being on stage is not unlike walking naked down the street!" I'd rather be on stage Heh |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Cluin Date: 27 Feb 03 - 02:22 PM Given up the other, have ye C? |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Art Thieme Date: 27 Feb 03 - 05:28 PM Men have it easier than women when large. Just a fact. We are "jolly", and women are, "Well, just look at her!!!" It was little consolation to me though to realize, one sad day, that a Douglas Fir tree with my circuferance was 110 feet tall. I never had much problem getting gigs. On the very day I lost 100 lbs., we took a picture of me for an LP cover. The company needed a photo for the back of the album, so they took one from their file. The photo on the back was a hundred pounds heavier than the one on the front-----and I'm still glad that old album went out of print. But I was always glad, if I was to be fat anyway, that I wasn't a woman. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 27 Feb 03 - 06:01 PM I nominate this post Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: harvey andrews - PM Date: 25 Feb 03 - 08:54 AM For an award for the most stupid post ever on the Mudcat. The thesis seems to be anyone can lose weight in a concentration camp. I would like to point out that massive amputations will get even faster results. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: harvey andrews Date: 27 Feb 03 - 06:52 PM Jack I was passing on the opinion of my uncle who was in one.He just pointed out the simple fact that everyone has a calorie intake below which they lose weight irrespective of "metabolism", genetics or anything else. The same applies to people who claim an inability to lose weight. Cut the calories enough and it goes! This is the only diet that works.Anything else is an excuse.A whole industry is earning millions from people who do not wish to acknowledge this simple fact. My uncle lived it, saw it, and had no time for these charlatans. He called them "crooks". If that makes me the stupidest post on Mudcat..so be it. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: harvey andrews Date: 27 Feb 03 - 06:58 PM ps It seems reading the previous threads that people have got away again from the original question. Are we judged by appearances? In this society..YES! I'm overweight myself and though not too happy about it, don't wish to change my lifestyle enough to change that situation.Like an alcoholic, or a junkie. I suppose when and if it becomes a medical problem I will or I won't. I'm not being judgemental here, I'm just amazed at how gullible people are when faced with facts. My uncle faced them square on and drew conclusions. Then again a fence post in Australia turns in to the Virgin Mary. The human race is endlessly interesting, but also depressingly infuriating at times. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: GUEST Date: 27 Feb 03 - 06:59 PM Well said, Harvey What's the guesing that 'Jack the Sailor' is a greedy fat bastard? |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Ebbie Date: 27 Feb 03 - 07:23 PM Harvey, it appears that the jury is still out on what finally causes weight gain and loss. Have you kept up on the confusing data coming out from the High Fat/Low Carb diets? Kind of like Quantum Physics- humankind evidently doesn't yet know it all. Humility befits us. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: mg Date: 27 Feb 03 - 08:46 PM I sort of agree that you will lose weight at some level of caloric intake. And for some people, depending on the ratio of carbs, proteins, fats, etc., it is horribly low number of calories. Change the ratio and things improve. A question to ask if you can provide enough energy to get out of bed, work, etc. There is serious endocrinology going on here, and anyone who has been ridiculed for saying they have a metabolic problem has met with fools. It's all metabolic and has to do with insulin, insulin resistance etc...the whole process of diabetes. I know that I have a good case of insulin resistance...and I have yet to find the combination of foods that will allow me to lose weight and produce enough energy to get through a fairly cut-back lifestyle. And I am rarely hungry....but pretty low energy. So if a low-fat, low-protein diet doesn't work for you change your diet. Read the dreaded Dr. Atkins as well as Dr. Schwarzbein, Dr. Bernstein, the nurses' study, stuff coming out of Harvard by Dr. Willett and out of Stanford by Dr. ???? of syndrome X fame. mg |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: GUEST,Guest Guest Guest Guest wdyat24 Date: 27 Feb 03 - 09:46 PM If you like to perform I'm sure your personality and talent will carry your weight. You gotta have faith in your mucical ability and forget about obsessing about your physical appearance. For gosh sakes!! Performance and talent shine through!!! You are not alone with feeling inadequate. Most superstars feel spasms of what you must be feeling...even me. wdyat24 |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Jack the Sailor Date: 27 Feb 03 - 09:50 PM Sorry Harvey, I shouldn't have been so glib. Congrats to your uncle for surviving the ordeal. But what he went through in no way qualifies him to talk about the eating habits of overweight people. There is no doubt that one can lose weight in a prison camp. Four ounces of rice a day and work until you drop or you are shot. But is that healthy? Does it have anything to do with willpower or discipline? I don't think much of the diet industry, but for some people things like Slimfast and Weight Watchers do work. Its not just about losing weight. Its about being healthy and happy with the lifestyle that you have. There are a lot of things which can be as detrimental to health as obesity, including eating disorders and unhealthy diets. Life is about making choices and people have the right to choose that next beer or that nice juicy stake over the long term consequences of consuming it. GUEST,soon to be a member, If you are doing folk music then once people hear you play, your talent will be appreciated. Its up to you to get up and show people what you can do. If you want to be on "Americal Idol" start going to the gym because in pop music, how you look is often a bigger factor than talent. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Forum Lurker Date: 27 Feb 03 - 10:00 PM It's quite true that anyone will lose weight on a starvation diet, and for some people, that may be the better option than remaining at their current weight. Unfortunately, most starvation diets also lack essential nutrients besides calories. If you're going to crash diet, at least make sure that you're getting all of your vitamins, minerals, and electrolytes. That'll lose the weight, but then you need to make sure it stays off. For that, you need to find the right diet, which, as Mary Garvey has said, may take a lot of doing. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: GUEST,wdyat24 Date: 27 Feb 03 - 10:07 PM Forget the diets, you will worrey yourself thin and never remember yourself. YOU ARE YOU! Go with it!!!...but Father I want to sing!!! wdyat24 |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Kudzuman Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:51 PM Ever wonder why he calls himself Gargoyle? It's up for speculation of course. I see he has many intense ideas about this discussion. I guess obesity was the cause on Alan Watts death in his 50's while eating mostly rice and who was that great jogging guru who dropped dead of a heart attack while jogging, and shall I go on? We probably die more from the pollution and chemicals some (not myself) use daily like fabric softeners and margarine (ever look at the ingredients?) Then there is hairspray (spraying your head where the blood vessels are so close to the surface)which is like sealing your head with polyurethane. Hey, Garg, let's go out on the beach and tan our newly buff bodies so we can get skin cancer in a few years what say? Me? I'll just make some more music. Kudzuman |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: rich-joy Date: 28 Feb 03 - 04:48 AM "The dreaded Dr Atkins", as he was termed, made sense to me and I did lose weight on his low-carb diet, but, it all got too hard and too expensive!! (also, I can't seem to live without some Jasmine rice and Lindt chocolate, perhaps more than occasionally!!!). The highly lucrative "high carb processed food" industry that has benefited so much from "The Big FAT Scare" has a lot to answer for, regarding both America AND Australia's obesity problems (Oz is right behind the USA in the statistics). Leslie Kenton's (UK) book "The BIOGENIC Food Combining Diet" also made sense and answered a lot of questions for me - VERY interesting and recommended - and explains well why other diets don't work for many people. It's definitely NOT as "simple" as some of the above posters have so intolerantly stated!!! My favourite TV cooking shows are the British "Two Fat Ladies" and the sensual, curvy, Goddess of the kitchen, Nigella Lawson. These women love food - and LIFE!!! - something many of us can learn from!! To get back to the thread, Folkies can be intolerant and judgemental about quite a number of things, but I've never found other people's weight to be one of them!!! Cheers! R-J |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Kim C Date: 28 Feb 03 - 11:18 AM Well, now, here's the thing. There is no one magical Eating Plan that will work for everyone on the planet, simply because everyone is different. I tried low-fat, high-carb, almost-vegetarian once, and guess what happened? I gained 20 pounds. I was hungry all the time, so I ate all the time. Even though I was eating what was considered "good stuff," it wasn't the right good stuff for me, and I was actually eating more calories. Once I switched to more lean proteins and less processed foods, I got rid of the 20 pounds and it hasn't come back. Mister and I rarely eat food out of a box anymore. Slim-Fast is a crock. The only reason it works for some people is that if you follow their plan, you consume less calories. That's all. It's full of sugar. I compared the nutritional info from Slim-Fast and Fat-Free Nestle Quik, and it's pretty much the same, except for the vitamins. If you had a glass of Fat-Free Nestle Quik and a multivitamin on the side... well, there you go. Everyone has to find what works for them. And don't think in terms of "dieting" - think in terms of lifestyle changes. If you "diet" and lose weight, it's probably going to come back when you go off the "diet." If you want to get in shape, you have to make choices and decisions and changes, and that's hard for some people. Anyway..... no matter what your size, believe in yourself. Believe in your music, and in what you do. Like I said before, you'll have the respect and admiration of the people who matter. The others can just go have a Coke and a smile. :-) |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Art Thieme Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:07 PM During my lifetime I have gained and lost at least half a ton !!! Now that I'm disabled and any amount of eating puts on weight because of lack of inability to exercise, I just go with the flow. What will be, will be. If it kills me quicker, so be it. I do watch cholesterol and fat intake--- medicate for it too. But my parental units and their surrogates have been dead for nearly 30 years. It was time for me get those voices out of my head telling me to get slim---get the lead out and all sorts of other tripe. All the best to you all no matter what size, shape or poundage. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Alice Date: 28 Feb 03 - 01:07 PM Interesting segment last night on the news... genetics and nutrition, each person is unique, and our genes show what nutrients/diet is ideal for us. CBS NEWS / DIET FOR YOUR GENES I look forward to the day not far away when a genetic test can tell each of us what our personal optimum diet would be. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: mg Date: 28 Feb 03 - 10:23 PM I think that day is essentially here..at least we know we should be looking in that direction. It gets into it in Metabolic Body Typing Diet or some such book..actually original research was by dentists I think..a guy in WInthrop, WA has a practice that does that..also subscribe to Dr. Mercola's free newsletter..he discusses it a lot..mercola.com mg |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Peg Date: 01 Mar 03 - 11:26 AM I was of average weight growing up but not terribly active. I never felt very confident in phys ed class. Then I started jogging in high school and then in college added tennis, ballet, modern dance, fencing etc. I was a theatre major and it was all about the actor as body. I continued running (at the height I was running six miles a day, every day--sometimes it affected my menstrual periods because my body fat ratio was so low) and tended to eat healthy but not very consciously; I find that when I work out a lot my body craves healthier food and that eating crap when you have a very active lifestyle simply does not work very well. Your body needs a lot of potassium and protein, not to mention ready stores of glucose, when you're active. Our primitive ancestors would eat large amounts of protein after hunting and the stored glycogen could be converted to glucose during lean times. Modern man eats too often and too much and does not expend energy chasing down mastodons or elk. I have worked in several professions which helped me overcome any form of stage fright and got me very used to being observed by all sorts of people: professional acting, art modelling, and exotic dancing. Seeing beautiful portraits or sculptures of yourself, or having men throw money at you and say how gorgeous you are, is a nice ego boost (that's not to glamorize that job too much, as it had its hair-raising moments as well!). But one must have confidence to begin to do this sort of thing in the first place. And that comes from within as much as it does from without. Not all that different from believing you are a good enough singer or musician to get up in front of people. It took me a few years to feel confidence as a singer, too and when I first started singing traditional music I knew I'd found a type of style that worked for me...but was not comfortable at first because it was still so new to me. I had to give up running for a number of years after a succession of foot injuries. Coupled with the natural tendency to put on weight due to getting older and having a slightly slower metabolism, I have noticed I do feel a bit more self-conscious when performing on stage as a singer that I would have done years ago. I even sometimes feel this way when attending clothing-optional pagan gatherings, though compared to some I could be called downright skinny. But I think my own changing attitude has as much to do with aging (getting past the age where being sexy is the only thing that matters) as it does with having evolved from a size 5 to a size 10. I think the tendency to accept people exactly as they are is very similar in the pagan community as it is in the folk music community (and of course there is some overlap, although folk festivals do not tend to be clothing-optional! But I do find it strange when people assume this means pagans are "nudists" because that is really a completely different thing. I also have noticed that in the "nudist" community people tend to be leaner and more tanned). I have noticed a tendency for the sort of discrimination mentioned in the rock/pop music world, too; women especially need to be gorgeous or at least thin to be seen as desirable. I have seen lead singers fired and replaced by skinnier (and sometimes younger) counterparts who weren't half the singers the first one was...merely because it's considered necessary these days to have a sexy front-person and any woman bigger than a twig is not considered sexy...at least a fit, more muscular aesthetic is now in vogue, but that's difficult to maintain, too. I saw a lot of unhealthy behavior aimed at weght control from dancers and athletes and actresses and strippers in my day...no thanks. Video Killed the Radio Star, as the song says. I remember in the early days of MTV, there was a band that was popular in the alternative college radio circuit called Romeo Void. The singer was overweight but it didn't seem to matter...UNTIL the bands music videos were widely seen. Suddenly, everyone said "God, she's a dog!" This trend has only increased to the point where nowadays pop stars are built almost solely on physical image; men as well as women. As for the advice given for weight loss, etc. I once read that the healthiest people who'd lived to ripe old age had one thing in common among their many habits (and some of them still smoked or drank daily, in moderation): they exercised every day and did soemthing to break a sweat and get their pulse up. I have found the best way to stay fit is to stay active. I can jog again now but my days of running six miles a day are probably gone. But hiking, walking, cross-country-skiiing, all are great exercise. I also fast occasionally, eating a fruit-only diet for 2-3 days. The Swedish swear by this. It rests the digestive organs and helps eliminate toxins in the body. It works best when the moon is waning. I also think, of all the "diet" systems discussed here, that food combining is the most sensible and the most adaptable to every human being (as has been pointed out, we are all different, and the high-protein or high-carb diet or all-grapefruit diet is effective for some but a disaster for others). Best advice: get active if you're not, and don't eat processed foods. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: SINSULL Date: 01 Mar 03 - 12:06 PM I hate it when gargoyle is right! Just had a check-up. My cholesterol is bordering medication levels and my blood pressure requires medication. Stress from the moving and total lack of exercise coupled with eating everything that is bad for me... Just a year ago, I was on a high protein/no whites diet which led to a painless loss of 39 pounds. My cholesterol and blood pressure dropped dramatically. I dislike sweets and sugary treats but can't resist pizza and chips. Guess I will have to. So even though I feel no weight discrimination at Mudcat (it is out there in the job market where I am seen as lazy before I even open my mouth) if I am going to live to 60 and once again tie my shoes without risking an embolism, I have to make better choices and get up from the computer occasionally. Of course, my Dad is 89 and going strong despite similar health problems. Sorry for the thread drift. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: GUEST Date: 03 Mar 03 - 04:57 AM "I have little sympathy for people who have unhealthy eating and exercise habits, and don't take responsibility for their own physical condition." "There is prejudice against weight...and IT IS Justified. Fat people lack stamina, patience, and self-discipline" "I have no patience with the excuses. You are FAT because you WANT to be fat." I hardly know where to start. This is not intended to be a "flame", but I'm so angry, I could spit nails! Maybe start with Gargoyle, who quotes many basic facts, but sadly uses them to excuse or justify his judgmental attitude. Perhaps it would be better described as a pre-judgmental attitude? Someone of large size gets up on stage to perform, and just by looking at their size you know all about them? Their motivation, or (assumed) lack thereof? The dues they've paid? Horseshit! How dare you write a person off that way? I have no patience with such attitudes, or of any of the others quoted above. There's not so much difference between disregarding someone because of their weight (which has been described as "the last safe prejudice") as doing so because of the colour of their skin, religion, etc. I'm heavily overweight, been fighting the damned battle all my life. Still fighting. With various diets and disciplines (don't get me started on my opinion of the diet industry!), probably lost 600 pounds off and on (literally) in my time. And I'm still heavily overweight. Biggest victory? I figure it's the day I simply decided to stop hating myself for it. Only took the first 30 years or so of my life to figure that out. And I'm still here. And I'm still getting my little round self up on stage and sharing what I love with those who are willing to listen. And if some can't, or won't get around the appearance thing, guess what? It really is their problem, not mine. Here endeth the rant! Jeremiah |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Jeremiah McCaw Date: 03 Mar 03 - 05:00 AM Cookie reset. Glad I signed that last. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Nigel Parsons Date: 03 Mar 03 - 05:34 AM Pavarotti; Domingo; And those who made no attempt to hide it: 'Chubby Checker' & Fats Domino And, finally, Elvis |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: Dave Bryant Date: 03 Mar 03 - 05:36 AM Rosie Hardman who has written some wonderful songs has her own Website HERE. You can find many of her songs on it. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: denise:^) Date: 03 Mar 03 - 04:21 PM I think the folkies are probably less judgmental than most... More fun weight facts: ~"talking about it" is much easier than actually LOSING WEIGHT, and every thin person knows 'just what you should do;' ~Art is right; it is much more acceptable for a man to be overweight than a woman. Denise:^) |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 03 Mar 03 - 10:52 PM HHhhMMMmmmmm Less judgmental...or more in denial of the draw-backs?//
Wow! What a grand response….of guilty souls.
Don't get me wrong – once… I too….would have been defending my extra weight. And, would have been verbally violent also.
Sure, I played in France and then Germany, over a course of five years.
But, I would not have had the energy and drive to play in Peru, Ireland, Netherlands, England, and Germany in the past three years. IF the pounds were not lost…and I was in no better physical condition than the previous two tours.
The prejudice is against yourself… and your own sloth ….which prevents you from sharing your talent with the broadest (no pun) audience possible. Loathing yourself…..because you are fat….is a condition you CAN…. change!
It is NOT heredity!!!! Fast Food Nation Eric Schlosser, Harper Collins Books, 2000, p 240-241.
p. 240 "More than half of all American adult and about one-quarter of all American children are now obese or overweight. Those proportions have soared during the last few decades, along with the consumption of fast food. The rate of obesity among American adults is twice as high today as it was in the early 1960's….
"Today about 44 million American adult are obese. An additional 6 million are "super-obese"; they weigh about a hundred pounds more than they should. No other nation in history has gotten so fat so fast.
"A recent study by half a dozen researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that the rate of American obesity was increasing in every state and among both sexes, regardless of age, race, or educational level. In 1991, only four states had obesity rates of 15 percent or high; today at least thirty-seven states do. " Rarely do chronic conditions such as obesity," the CDC scientists observed, "spread with the speed and dispersion characteristic of a communicable disease epidemic." Although the current rise in obesity has a number of complex causes, genetics is not one of them. The American gene pool has not changed radically in the past few decades. What has changed is the nation's way of eating and living. In simple terms when people eat more and move less, they get fat.">
p. 241 " The cost of America's obesity epidemic extends far beyond emotional pain and low self-esteem. Obesity is now second only to smoking as a cause of mortality in the United States."
COMMENTARY - by Gargoyle In recent travels, (my lifetime collection is over 20 different countries ) the only fat (and ugly) people I have observed have been in London. Most of the world is pretty damn-good-looking.
Sincerely,
To WYSIWYG: Sorry – No links ….no 'cut and paste'…..it is just like the Dummy Train thread….this is a transcription from my own collection of books. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: AggieD Date: 04 Mar 03 - 06:01 AM Oh dear Gargoyle you do have a very LARGE chip on your shoulder(no pun intended!!!!!). Why then if obesity is not part of our inheritance - for some not all - are they now developing a way of altering the mutated fat gene to stop those people who have it, so that our bodies do not get overweight? Yes I do agree that we can do something about our size & yes certain ways of losing weight agree with some & not with others, & yes there are lots of greedy people out there who never exercise & live on junk food, & for those people I have little sympathy. However there are still lots of people who struggle constantly with their weight, who are not lazy & eat a good diet. There are also lots of people in the music world who are bigger than the norm, although the norm seems to be no bigger than a stick insect, which is far more unhealthy than being big. At least if you are overweight you are less likely to get osteoporosis in later life, especially if you do exercise! As for heart disease, high blood pressure etc. my doctor has admitted to me that the medical world do not actually know with 100% certainty that obesity solely brings on any of these problems, many of them are theories that research is trying to prove. I know of many thin people who have high blood pressure, heart problems, high cholestorol etc etc. Enjoy your life, sing your heart out & be positive, you never know you might find other joys in life than eating. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: denise:^) Date: 04 Mar 03 - 07:54 AM Keep talking...that's always the easiest part!! (Especially in this forum of many words and few pictures...) Denise:^) |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: harvey andrews Date: 04 Mar 03 - 08:12 AM The only fat ( and ugly) people in London gargoyle? That's not been my experience. I saw some grotesque sights in North America! Are you sure you mean "Ugly" and not just "badly dressed"...which I concede. |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: MairSea Date: 04 Mar 03 - 10:13 AM They say One who eavesdrops hears no good of themselves! I am fair, fat and fifties and was invited to sing at a folk club. I did my set, dressed appropriately, but on visiting the loo overheard two ladies from the audience who decided that I had a voice for radio - beautiful - but how dare I insult their eyes! They continued in this vein for quite a few minutes (seemed like hours) and I wish I could say that I came out and gave them a flea in their ear - I didn't I have just stopped singing! Thank you ladies for your 'well-deserved observations'. I'm afraid that I can vouch for the fact that the POp Idol type of criticism is alive and well in Folk circles. Pity really because if that is the case then the traditional song will truly die a death at the hands of the audience as well as the politicians!!!! |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: GUEST Date: 04 Mar 03 - 11:49 AM There is a difference between being generously proportioned and being FAT. Some people are built big, and they look right big. They don't look FAT, they look in proportion and their flesh is firm and they don't have obesity-type health problems. Funnily enough they don't get that much discrimination anyway, because they look just right the way they are. There are people who are overweight due to pre-existing health problems, which mean that they store excess fat & can't get rid of it. They are very unlucky, and I imagine they get a lot of painful discrimation which they don't deserve. BUT - there are a lot of FAT people out there who are out of proportion - whose bodies are having problems maintaining and carrying the extra weight - who are eating and drinking to excess and not expending that energy due to sedentary lifestyles. They tend to be the ones that frankly don't look their best. There are people who are in denial about their weight and therefore wear truly horribly innapropriate clothes. There are people who are unhappy about their weight - so they comfort eat - so they get fatter - etc etc. There are people who are making themselves needlessly unhealthy and sluggish. Those are the people who need a wake-up-call, but they don't want to hear the message - so they try to hide behind the FACT that "not everybody who is fat is fat through their own fault". Well that's true - but its also true that not everybody who is fat HAS to be fat or is happy being fat. Its also true that "not everybody who is fat is unhealthy, weak-willed or unattractive". Again - that's true, but there are patently a lot who ARE. So I don't think Gargoyle's harsh truths should be dismissed out of hand. And I think the realities of life are that FAT people will be discriminated against - because generalisations ARE going to be made. Being FAT shouldn't stop anyone singing - but you have to realise that whilst people may love your voice, they may not like your looks. That's their choice, and their honest reaction. You can either focus on what they didn't like, or focus on what they did like. FAT is not a sacred thing that we should all make allowances for. If you had a huge pair of ears and bottle-bottom glasses but sing like an angel - well you'd still have to expect that people will comment on your looks as well as your voice. Anyway, and finally, have the courage of your convictions. I'd rather be a FAT singer with a beautiful voice, than a lean machine that couldn't carry a tune. Focus on the positive god-given gift, not the packaging. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face (ie - don't stop singing!) And if you don't like people discriminating against your weight, then all you can really do is to make an honest attempt to change it (but please do it sensibly and healthily - or you could lose the good things you already have). |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: denise:^) Date: 04 Mar 03 - 03:24 PM Hmmm...I think GARGOYLE should be dismissed out of hand... BTW, does "G" ever have anything to actually say about MUSIC? I usually notice a lot of complaining, whining, and insults, but not any musical content... What about it, G? Do you play anything, or sing anything???!?!?!? Denise:^) who plays and sings a lot! |
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Subject: RE: WEIGHT discrimination in music world... From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 04 Mar 03 - 09:03 PM EXCERPTS from the Wall Street Journal March 4, 2003
LONDON (AP)--People should get no more than 10% of their calories from sugar, experts say in a major new report Monday on how to stem the global epidemic of obesity-linked diseases.
The report was commissioned by two U.N. agencies, the World Health Organization and the Food and Agriculture Organization, and compiled by a panel of 30 international experts.
The food industry immediately decried the document, insisting more exercise is the key to ending obesity .
The report underlines what doctors have been saying for years -that along with regular exercise, a diet low in fatty, sugary and salty food is key to staying healthy.
The experts recommend one hour of daily exercise, double the amount recommended by the U.S. government but the same as that endorsed by other establishments.
But when it came to sugar, their advice was some of the boldest yet.
The United States, leads the world in obesity.
Philip James, chairman of the International Obesity Task Force and one of the scientists on the panel, said the report presents the food industry with one of its biggest challenges.
"Despite all the attempts so far to increase the provision of healthier choices over the last 10 or more years, obesity rates have accelerated," he said. "The food industry must now sit down with WHO and others to work out how to seriously address this issue and become part of the solution rather than remaining part of the problem."
Scientists predict that heart disease will be the leading cause of death in developing countries by the end of the decade. Obesity rates are also increasing more rapidly in developing countries than in rich nations, and two-thirds of the people with
<The U.S. National Soft Drink Association said that a 10% limit on sugar should not be part of the plan.
Starting next week, WHO officials will be meeting health authorities from around the world to discuss how governments plan to respond to the recommendations. A similar meeting is planned with food industry officials in May.
Sincerely, |
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