BS: Women's names -- the virtues

Subject: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: michaelr
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 09:13 PM

Been wondering about this for a while: Some women's names are desirable character traits or virtues, like Hope, Patience, Grace etc.

How many of these are there? Is there a Biblical connection, like an OT list of virtues?

And has anyone heard of equivalent male names?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 09:58 PM

I suppose if we knew what each name meant male names would have their own nobility. For instance, doesn't Michael mean something like Beloved of God? Or maybe that's 'David'.

On the other hand, I don't remember hearing men's names like 'Chastity', although there was one Englishman (?) who was called something like blank blank, the Chaste and who was it that was called the Unready?

What does Dweezil mean?

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 10:01 PM

There's only one such male name I'm certain of. In Boston's Old North Churchyard is the grave of John PraiseGod Smallbehinds.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: ddw
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 10:24 PM

There were three sisters in my home town named Faith, Hope and Charity -- I kid you not. And then there's Constance.

Wasn't one of the pilgrim preachers in the Mather family -- can't remember if it was Cotton Mather's father or brother or son -- named "Constant"? My hazy memory tells me there were a number of others in that time period with similar names, but none will come far enough forward to the identified.

And let us not forget the popes -- Pius... Any others?

How 'bout the author of Galveston Flood, Sinkiller Griffin?

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: ddw
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 10:29 PM

Oh, I forgot. About the biblical references...

From my days when we had Bible studies in the public schools (tells you how old I am), I remember having to memorize a fairly long passage that began "And now I see through a glass darkly, but then face to face...." and ends with something about "faith, hope and charity, but the greatest of these is charity."

I fully expect somebody who knows about this stuff to correct my hazy memory... Where's WYSIWYG?

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: ddw
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 10:53 PM

Or was that "faith, hope and love, but the greatest of these is love"?

The "glass darkly" part is Cor. 13:12

http://www.biblemaster.com/bible/search.asp?book=46&chapter=13&t=kjv

cheers

david

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:00 PM

Good memory, David - both quotes come from I Corinthians 13.

There are some good pope names - there were twelve Piuses, and I don't know how many Innocents. There was a Sixtus V, too. One could wonder if the Urbans were urbane, and it the Clements showed any clemeny. You'll find the whole list here (click). The most interesting was Alexander VI, father of Lucretia Borgia. The one with his name in the most prominent places was Pius V, who built more public buildings than both Richard Dalys combined. His name is in huge letters above the front door of St. Peter's Basilica - I didn't see St. Pete's name on the building at all.

When I was doing security clearance investigations, there was a large family that had many members working at a nuclear facility. Each child was named after a different kind of booze: Jose Cuervo, Virginia Dare, Budweiser, etc.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: robinia
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:40 PM

Yes, indeed, you'll find many men's "virtue" names in early America.   "Resolute" springs to mind, and the colonists were also fond (as guest notes) of whole phrases. I wish I could remember some of them -- can anyone help me out here?

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Neighmond
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 03:01 AM

Went to school with a Life Halver, also knew a Patience Hoover and Beaulah

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 03:42 AM

Mustn't forget Inspector Morse, whose christian name was only revealed late in the series of books: Endeavour!

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Little Robyn
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 03:55 AM

The Unready was King Ethelred. Rede means counsel or advice - he was labelled Ethelred the ill-advised.
We have some interesting female names in our family tree - starting in 1802. The first and last are OK but the others are unusual:
Harriet, Hezekiah, Hazael, Heli, Hareph, Hezro, Helebath and Helen!
Their surname was Holden and they were all sisters, living in Surrey!
Harriet's son was the one who came to NZ.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Lyndi-loo
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 04:12 AM

And we mustn't forget Gordon Brown's favourite name - Prudence. I believe these names were popular with the Puritans in the 1600s from whence the Pilgrim fathers came of course. Old testament names like Eleazor and Ezekiel were also very popular among Welsh revivalists from 1904

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 11:11 AM

Cotton Mather's relative - sorry, can't remember the relationship - was Increase Mather. At one time he was as fameous as Cotton.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Blackcatter
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 11:17 AM

Yes, but could you make a bolt of cloth out of him?

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Kim C
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 11:20 AM

I had an ancestor named Appolonia. I don't know what it means, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 11:26 AM

British garden landscaper: Capability Brown.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Alice
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 11:41 AM

I am related to Cotton Mather. One of my great grandmothers was Amelia Lucinda Cotton (she sometimes spelled it Cotten) and her grandfather was Solomon Cotton. Another ancestor was Lucy DEVOTION, born about 1750, in Bennington, Vermont. One name in my family tree I'd never seen before was "Chileab". It belongs to Chileab Smith, b 1636, Hartford, Connecticut. Does anyone know what Chileab refers to?

An interesting article online about the Seven Deadly Sins as opposite to Virtues: Click here


Basic list as given by Catholic church:

The Theological Virtues: Faith, Hope and Charity
from 1 Corinthians 13:13

The Cardinal Virtues: Prudence, Justice, Temperance and Fortitude
from Wisdom 8:7

The Evangelical Counsels: Poverty, Chastity and Obedience
From the Beatitudes and Philippians 2:8.

The Gifts of the Holy Spirit: Wisdom, Understanding, Counsel, Fortitude, Knowledge, Piety, and Fear of the Lord.
.

The Fruits of the Holy Spirit: Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, and Faithfulness
from Galatians 5:22. The Church has a tradition of twelve also, which adds: Generosity, Gentleness, Modesty, Self-control, and Chastity (Catechism #1832)


It seems that Prudence and Temperance were also used alot for naming girls.


Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 11:56 AM

And then there was Unity Mitford, though I've no idea what unity she was celebrating.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: GUEST,alinact
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 11:58 AM

Just been reading a story about Portsmouth, New Hampshire and there was an early settler there by the name of Wrestling Brewster.

Allan

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Peg
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:04 PM

here's a guy buried in Tunbridge, Vermont named Wonderful Colby...I have a friend who became the cemetery officer in his rural town and he could tell you some incredible names from that era! I know there are a few in an old cemetery near him but I can't remember them off hand...

One gal in The Crucible was named Mercy...ironic, tho.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: *daylia*
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:15 PM

Here's some information about the history behind "virtuous" first names in Europe and America.

The ancient Greeks and Romans personified the Virtues as Goddesses, and less commonly as Gods. Children were named after these deities in the hopes that they would develop these 'divine' traits. Here's
a short list of the deified "virtues" from Roman times (taken from Gregory Flood's on-line library at this link):

Virtues and Personifications

Aequitas, Aeternitas, Annona, Concordia, Felicitas, Fides, Honos, Justitia, Lars Militaris (Luck of the Army), Libertas, Liberalitas, Mens (mind), Pax, Providentia, Ques (rest), Securitas, Spes (hope), Victoria, Virtus

It's interesting to note that women were most often named after and used as symbols for the finer aspects of human personality and social life. This link gives some very interesting historical/social data from the French revolution regarding the discrepancy between the public status of women and the use of the female figure to symbolize "Liberty, Equality and Freedom".

Enjoy!    daylia

PS - I picked a flower for my Mudcat name - can you get more virtuous than a flower????

PPS - Michael, according to the World Book Dictionary of names, "Michael" means "Who is like God". Sounds pretty virtuous too (depending on which god, I guess)!

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: *daylia*
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:19 PM

Kim C, "Appolonia" sounds very much like the Greek God "Apollo". Maybe a female version?

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Kim C
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:25 PM

Well, that could be.

When I was doing research I came across a person named Pleasant Mount. He wasn't related to me, though. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: *daylia*
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:31 PM

"Pleasant Mount" He he he! Wouldn't that handle be quite the challenge for a sweet young thing in high school?!

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Alice
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:32 PM

Just found on google that Chileab means "protected by the father". David's second son by Abigail (2 Sam. 3:3); called also Daniel (1 Chr. 3:1)

My ancestor Chileab Smith comes up first on google when you type in "Chileab".

Here is an interesting site that includes virtue names:
Click here A brief commentary on the history and origin of first names in the United States of America and Europe.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Alice
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 12:36 PM

According to the page I linked to above, the Puritans were deliberately breaking tradition with promoting new names for their children that did not conform to the older Catholic tradition of using saint's names. They not only used the virtues, but also named children with phrases, like "...Preserved from Temptation, Make Peace with the Lord, and Deliverance Through Enduring Faith. For practical reasons, these names were shortened over time to Preserved, Makepeace, and Deliverance."

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Kim C
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 01:28 PM

I think I'd like to be called Athena.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: PageOfCups
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 01:44 PM

Don't forget actor Cleaveon Little (Blazing Saddles). I believe his mother or grandmother named all the kids after Bible verses. Don't know which one his name came from...

PoC
who will be humming the Blazing Saddles theme all day now

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 02:10 PM

The one I loved was a prominant early 19th century merchant in NYC, Preserved Fish.

I had a collegue once named Charity Goodman. She was in charge of membership for the museum where we both worked. One member wrote us a highly irate letter saying that her signature on a membership letter was a tasteless joke. Needless to say, we all got a chuckle out of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Kim C
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 04:04 PM

He rode a blazing saddle, he wore a silver star.........

(I think he said, the sheriff is near!)

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Little Robyn
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 04:50 PM

People are often named after their parents - I once met someone whose middle name was 'Maori Battalion'!
Did the Mum not know which one or was it the whole battalion?
But that's not very virtuous!

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Kim C
Date: 28 Feb 03 - 05:45 PM

Wait! How could I have forgotten this one?! One of my very early ancestors, John Flood, came over to Jamestown in the 1600s when he was only 15. Some years later, he married a widow named...

Fortune Jordan.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: michaelr
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 03:10 PM

Thank you all -- some very interesting info here!

I only feel god-like quite rarely these days... :-)

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Hrothgar
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 09:45 PM

At least if your name is Maori Battalion you have your own song.

Beats being named after a football team.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: minnesinger5
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 11:02 PM

Happen to notice the reference to Virginia Dare. She was the first European Child born in the new world-that we know of, that is. Born in 1583, I believe. Yours, minnesinger5

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 07:04 AM

Capability Brown received his nickname "Capability" because he always told his patrons that their land had "great capability" for re-landscaping.

My more-or-less reliable memory was confirmed by the entry (under Brown, Lancelot) in the Oxford English Reference Dictionary, tho as lots of books fell out (as always) in my attempts to get it out, I might re-arrange the shelf to put the less useful ones at the back of the shelf. One day, cos I also got out my Guiness Book of Names by Leslie Dunking (a treasure I've owned since it was published in 1974) & can't find any mention of the virtue names, but lots of good stuff so I might waste a bit of time with it later.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Mar 03 - 11:11 AM

I've come across some peachy ones in my family history; mostly Old Testament names, and all around 1760 - 1860. Some of them are taken from Joshua 15 and 16, the cities of Judah. Michmethath Boatswain married someone called Nehushta and just carried on with that chapter that is all 'begats'. 15 children in all, all given incomprehensible names that really jarred with the Johns, Marys, Thomas, William and Sarahs that the rest of the village went for!

I have an Absalem, variously spelt Absalome, Apslem, Apsalome and Abslom. Thank heaven my branches kept with the more mundane, although they start to get a bit more exotic when the family moved to a seaside town!

There was a family named for flowers too, not sure if the boy liked being called Narcissus, but his sisters were Rose, Jonquil, Lily and Lavendar.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 11:02 AM

I have a friend called MENAI, straight up.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: GUEST,bbc at work
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 11:55 AM

David does mean beloved.

bbc

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: GUEST,Geordie
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 01:55 PM

What about the great English engineer Isambard Kingdom Brunel and of course, William Makepeace Thackeray.

Subject: RE: BS: Women's names -- the virtues
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 01:58 PM

Re Virginia Dare... I believe there is considerable evidence to the contrary regarding her claim. The Vikings overwintered in Newfoundland nearly 600 years earlier and there is reason to believe that at least two children were born at there, at least this is what I have read.