Songs 'given' to others-silly practice?

Subject: RE: Songs 'given' to others-silly practice?
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 07:50 AM

When I am aware a singer has a limited repertoire I tend not to sing any of 'their' songs when they are attending the club ( I might indulge myself when they're not there ).

I do not feel the same obligation towards any singer whose repertoire consists of sing from books/song-sheets, etc., where there has been no attempt at actually learning the song....something else which seems to have crept in over the past few years!

Subject: RE: Songs 'given' to others-silly practice?
From: IanC
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 07:44 AM

Here's a good previous thread Song Ownership.

:-)

Subject: RE: Songs 'given' to others-silly practice?
From: paulo
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 07:34 AM

OK so it was done amongst "families" of traditional singers, but families are strange entities in the first place.

Having moved around the country a lot (UK) and visited various folk clubs it does seem strange to be told that so& so sings that song reguarly or that that's billy's song.

There are only two reasons for me not singing a song that others sing in any given club:
1)   If the other person who sings it has a limited number of songs that they sing (I can't spell repertoire)
2)   If the other person who sings it is the person I got the words and tune from.

There is a third reason.   I tend not to sing songs when the composer is in the audience.

Cheers
Paulo

Subject: RE: Songs 'given' to others-silly practice?
From: OurPaul
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 07:19 AM

I think it all stems from the time when 'folk-songs' didn't exist!
I mean the days when 'Fred' would rise from the corner of the Tap Room in his local pub and give a rendition of 'his' song. I have found many instances of certain songs being assigned to certain singers and woe betide the young upstart who dares to attempt 'Fred's Song'. The tradition continued well into the last century in the form of family sing-songs around the piano where everyone had 'their' party piece. This tradition appears to have continued to the present day in the Folk Clubs. However, this can be shield behind which those too idle to learn new material can hide. Those with a jealously guarded small repotoire are the easiest to upset.
My approach is that in my local, regularly visited clubs, where I know most of the members, I wouldn't sing anything I know is regularly sung by another.
On visiting a new club or festival anything goes.
As regards the 'giving' of songs I can agree that in the context of family songs as outlined in a previous mail it would be impolite to use the material and would probably result in a family feud.
In the folk club situation I would say that no-one has the right to 'give' songs unless they are the author and even then, in these days of copyright litigation, it is important to specify exactly what is being given.

Subject: RE: Songs 'given' to others-silly practice?
From: Dita
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 06:45 AM

The practice was common among traditional singers, such as the Stewarts of Blair. Belle, Sheila and Cathie had family songs in common but each had songs that "belonged" to them.
God help anyone who sang "Queen amang the Heather" in front of Belle. Sheila only started singing it in public after Belle died.

john.

Subject: RE: Songs 'given' to others-silly practice?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 06:45 AM

I can understand this, up to a point - though it does imply that the other singer would be "offended" by this, and why on earth should they, unless they feel some sort of competitiveness, beats me.

But it gets much worse. I have known of people being reprimanded for singing "someone else's" song even when the other singer is not present. And in some cases I have seen new arrivals at a club being "ticked off" for singing "X's song", even when they don't know "X" or his/her repertoire.

In other words, what starts as politeness (even misplaced one, in my view), ends up as a limiting practice which does not allow the "better" or "more popular" songs to spread, simply because someone else got to them first. So if a young/new floorsinger turns up, what chance do they have, if they have to check first who is in the club, what their likely repertoire is etc...That's why I think it gets silly.

Subject: RE: Songs 'given' to others-silly practice?
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 06:25 AM

As a matter of courtesy I do not sing certain songs that I know are in the repertoire of other singers when sharing a venue. That is not to say I do not perform those songs when the singer is elsewhere. It is in the spirit of politeness and consideration.

Subject: How can you "own" a song you never wrote?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 06:13 AM

I'd like to understand the practice of "giving" a song (not one you wrote, that is, but in fact someone else's) to another singer. I confess that I find the concept of not singing a particular song because someone else does it regularly at the same venue, limiting. And to have to ask permission from someone who has not written or resorded it, seems dubious at best and silly at worst.

But perhaps I am missing something. So can you help me understand, how this practice came about? I certainly don't remember it happening 30 years ago, when I first joined the folk club scene. But I went "on a break" in the 80's and 90's, which is when this practice seems to have evolved.

Is it to avoid "competition"? But then, how can songs spread, if singers are hamstrung by such practices?