BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST,hotdog
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 04:43 PM

To get back to the subject at hand, what is the latest on good ol' muslim sgt akbar? Have not seen any coverage.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 06:39 PM

vietvet'67-To claim that supposedly Islamic terrorists or theocrats are representing the faith accurately is no different than claiming that Torquemada is a perfect example of Christianity. "These people" wouldn't care about my human rights if we shared a religion, should that religion be Islam, Mormonism, or Unitarian Universalism. My objection is to the classification of Muslims, Arabs, or any demographic based on religion or ethnicity, as inherently evil or inferior.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 05:51 PM

These people ..... you mean like gooks?

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: vietvet'67
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 05:31 PM

Forum Lurker...why are you so naive? To the point of being out of touch? You do read extensively, that much is obvious. I have read these missives and have decided that only those of us who have seen combat and have been exposed to people such as Akbar would deal with this scum in a manner befitting his crime. I suggest that you take a trip to some beautiful country such as Libya or Lebanon or Iran or others who base their thinking on Islam. This will open your eyes. These people do not care for your views on human rights. Pictures are worth more than words.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 02:18 PM

hotdog-what makes you such a bigot? You believe that "Muslims must be made to understand that their way AIN't GONNA WORK?" Are you proposing that we start with missionaries, or just begin the Crusade now?

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST,hotdog
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 12:46 PM

BLACK MUSLIM TRAITOR KILLS TWO, WOUNDS 14...Now that the war is winding down we can be proud that our forces performed their duties and missions with the highest mitilary integrity and honor. All except one. The scum Akbar disgraced his unit, the military, the USA and his race and the human race. I watched the interview with his family (did anybody ubderstand a word that they said?). I even feel for these people. To be sure they will never know peace again. Muslims and especially those assholes who subscribe to their terrorist teachings must be made to understand that their way AIN'T GONNA WORK. The world will have to adopt new policies in order to deal with scum like these. Who will pay the biggest price...

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 05:50 PM

"Nits make Lice"- comment by Oliver Cromwell on the New Model Army's bayonetting of Irish infants.

We've come a long way in 3 centuries, Baby.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 04:36 PM

hotdog-So, you consider the children of people forced into crime as their only method of survival sufficiently guilty to condemn them to death? You seem to have an absolute disregard for the lives of the poor. I'm not a fan of political correctness, but when you dismiss a large portion of the nation's population as "gangbangers" and enjoy the fact that they are being murdered in large numbers, it just sickens me.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST,'yo daddy
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 03:39 PM

Another way to ease the burden on the taxpayer is to sterilize known gangbanger felons so that they not spawn more "bastard illegitimates".
But as bad as the gangbangers are in the USA, they are mild when compared to the terrorists of the world

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST,hotdog
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 02:34 PM

As stated before, these people have a way of killing themselves off, the process of elimination. These gangbangers should be cordoned off. Forum Lurker, you haven't been around much, have you? Prostitutes have their place, pussy for money is here to stay.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 01:38 PM

hotdog-It's the attitude that "The little bastard kids grow up to be grown up thugs" which creates the problem. It is by no means inevitable, if people are willing to do somethig about it. Which would you prefer, that some gang members take advantage of the system, or that everyone who can't afford to maintain their family on legitimate income take up drug selling, robbery, or prostitution to make ends meet?

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 01:20 PM

CarolC...there are no innocents.

I guess that's a matter of opinion too. Though I suppose the word "non-combatant" might have been less subject to debate.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 01:14 PM

CarolC...there are no innocents.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 12:57 PM

But these folks cannot hold a candle to the likes of the fanatical muslims, the many black african terror groups, asian thugs, etc.

Matter of opinion there GUEST. I'd say most of the worlds REALLY BIG wars have been waged by white, non-Muslims against white non-Muslims. And it's the REALLY BIG wars where the most numbers of innocent people get killed.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 12:51 PM

CarolC, key phrase here is "as a rule". Of course there are a few incidents throughout history of good 'ol white boys breaking bad and wreaking havoc. But these folks cannot hold a candle to the likes of the fanatical muslims, the many black african terror groups, asian thugs, etc. Crimes against non-whites may or not be considered retribution. You decide.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST,hotdog
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 12:37 PM

Forum Lurker, I lived in East LA for a year work on gang related articles. MANY black and latino and asian gang menbers bragged of living off the system: food stamps, rent subsidies, free medical, free lunches for their many bastard children AND the monies received from criminal activities So get your facts together or better yet live in one of these shithole areas and see where your hard earned money goes. As GUEST said, if these pricks kill each other off, GOOD! Unfortunately the little bastard kids grow up to be grown thugs.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 12:32 PM

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 09:48 AM

As a rule Christian/Prostetant/Jewish/Catholic (etc) people in the US do not do not commit acts of terror against the general population of this country.

Interesting POV there, GUEST. Perhaps, as a rule, they don't, unless you count the hundreds of people killed by Timothy McViegh. And then there's the Unibomber, and Eric Rudolph, and all of the hate crimes committed against non-whites, women and gays, etc. etc...

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 11:46 AM

GUEST of 9:38 AM-The problem is that the people who grow up to be gang members could also be productive, moral members of society, if they were free of the corrupting influence of the gangs. They don't sponge off the welfare system; their income is derived primarily from crime, (drug sales, robbery, etc.) which affects everyone. You can't simply ignore the problem and hope it will go away.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST,SDShad
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 11:15 AM

Awhoops! That last one was me, sans cookie. New computer....

Chris

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 10:41 AM

Kim C. wrote:

"As far a Muslims fighting other Muslims....... well, my gggggggrandfather was a German, a teenager literally fresh off the boat in 1775...... enlisted in the Continental Army and straightaway found himself fighting other Germans when he crossed the Delaware. I have often wonderered how he felt about that."

Actually, there was no Germany at the time, so somewhat less of an issue. The overwhelming number of Pennsylvinia Dutch and similar first-tier-of-the-backwoods communities of German immigrants stretching from upstate New York to North Carolina in the 1600s and 1700s were a combination of Palatine and Swiss Calvinists fleeing religious and political persecution. This was a fairly distinct diaspora; Penn actually traveled to the Palatinate to recruit colonists. Their enemies at Valley Forge were Hessian mercenaries, with whom they would've been well familiar at least by reputation, Hessians being the favorite enforcers of folks needing some extra muscle from Ulster to "Germany" at the time, esp. the Lutheran overlords who had been oppressing them--and let's not forget, the English monarchy was more than a little "German" itself at the time.

They would probably have feared the Hessians more than a little bit, but would, I suspect, have worried about killing them no more than they would have killing any other human--maybe a little bit less, if they or their immediate ancestors had experienced the Hessian boot back in Europe.

Historical Pedant,

C.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 09:48 AM

As a rule Christian/Prostetant/Jewish/Catholic (etc) people in the US do not do not commit acts of terror against the general population of this country. Unless of course you consider the black and hispanic gangs in the large cities. These people kill each other at an alarming rate (usually drug related or "turf" related) and occasionally non gang-members are killed or injurred. As for the gang members, who really gives a fuck. These people are useless to society and usually sponge off the welfare systems. Let them have at it.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Pseudolus
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 09:37 AM

I didn't need anyone to prove my point but , hey, thanks anyway......

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST,mfdvr
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 09:31 AM

ooooooooooohhhhhhh! Can we say NIGGER? Let us see, Akbar is black and muslim and a piece of shit. So........

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Pseudolus
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 09:21 AM

I understand your response Gervase, but if I may say so, as a Christian living in the US, I don't believe in mob rule and lynchings etc. I'm not saying that you think all of us believe that, but in these times of anger and fear, I just wanted to make that point.

I've tried to stay out of these threads but somehow I keep getting drawn back. If you look through these threads people have been called a lot of names. I try to take into account the emotions that come with seeing a war played out on television for all to see. But it's hard when you see someone referred to as a Muslim piece of shit. He very well may be both, but certainly one did not precipitate the other. It's hard too when someone says that they believe that the war was necessary and is referred to as a warmonger. Name calling brings on more name calling and that certainly has held true in these threads. It's sad, because I not only understand the temptation but I have on occasion given into it. So this post is not meant to argue.....just to get my two cents heard....


Frank

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 08:44 AM

Gervase, I assume that you noticed that most of the people reacting to EJ's comments are from the US? Personally, I'm not a Christian, so I don't see the point in setting fire to a perfectly good cross, and its been weeks now since I participated in a good lynching...best I can recall, it was a one-eyed banjo player.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Gervase
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 05:40 AM

...so that Christian pieces of shit can exact 'revenge' on the guy, eh?
You US Christians really seem to like the idea of mob rule and lynchings, don't you. Why not set fire to a few crosses while you're about it, and then drag a few niggers to their deaths to complete the cleansing process. As far as I'm concerned, the world would be a better place if all of you zealots could meet your personal gods sooner rather than later.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 01:56 PM

EJ-If he is found guilty, being a court-martial, he will be executed. Now, are you trying to sound as if you think all Muslims are pieces of shit, or is that just an unfortunate accident of invective?

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: EJ
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 12:53 PM

To return to the topic of this thread. We can all rest better knowing that this piece of muslim shit has at least been charged with murder (only the start). I only hope that this piece of crap is put into a military prison population so that he will be dealt with properly.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST,Liberal Conservative Democrat Republican
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 08:54 PM

I see the thread title was changed on March 26. Does this mean that the person who changed it thought he was not a Muslim, or was the person somehow offended by the term? Either way, I think it was poor judgement and misuse of the power to rename threads.

Sorry if I offended by calling a Muslim a Muslim. Maybe I should have said U.S. Muslim Sergeant, or maybe Sergeant from the U.S. professing the Muslim faith, or some other description which would probably be too long for the space allotted.

I repeat, changing the title was an incorrect judgement, and the person responsible should have to justify why it was done. If I start a thread titled "Chet Atkins was the world's greatest guitarist" and someone changes it to "Mudcatter thinks Chet Atkins was the world's greatest guitarist, but we, the Mudcat censors think he was merely one of many who are not quite as good as the one we like best" then I would be irritated. I don't see how this is any different. I expect if you were writing history books, you would expunge the term Muslim completely as being irrelevant.

Now to my main point for posting again. It is sad that a thread I started without comment garnered more posts than any music post I have responded to in two years. I am pretty much a centerist, and really think both sides of this argument and others like it are being extreme. It is no wonder that there is no peace in the world. People are too fond of taking pot shots at each other. There, now you can all commence taking pot shots at me, since I am in between you at the moment.

I think that nothing any of you has said in this thread and hundreds like it have caused others to budge even one centimeter from their beliefs.   That makes it pretty useless, and a complete waste of time. Mine is just as useless. I am sure I have not convinced even one of you that I am right, so I will quit and post no more to this thread. The others will no doubt continue to shoot at each other, and both sides will shoot at me. That is the way war goes. No one wins.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 09:53 AM

Which doesn't contradict a single thing I said. :)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 04:14 AM

Lepus,

Iraq was never a British Protectorate - British involvement in Iraq came about as the result of a mandate under the League of Nations between the years 1919 and 1932.

Kuwait was a British Protectorate, established by agreement between Kuwait and Britain, during a time while the Ottoman Empire was in existence. Brtish involvement in Kuwait lasted from 1899 to 1961.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 12:01 AM

You said that the British left in 1932... Not much of a British protectorate without the British, though, eh? :)

I don't think we're really disagreeing here, though. I stated that the Iraqi claims were based on the fact that Kuwait was part of the same vilayet as S.Iraq during Ottoman times. I didn't say that Iraqs claims are justified. (although the fact that the British only gave them a tiny, waterlogged sliver of Persian Gulf coastline unsuitable for a decent port, isn't a terrible excuse to claim long-disputed Kuwaiti territory.)

I also stated that the independence of Kuwait from Iraq was impossible without meddling of the English, that Iraq was screwed deeply and repeatedly by the British after WW1, and that the memory of these events might colour the Iraqi people's perception of the Anglo-American invasion today. What's to disagree with?

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 04:20 AM

Lepus,

From your posts re Iraq and UK:

"That the Iraqis, still smarting from British colonial rule,"

"Trust me, Teribus, the Iraqi people don't consider the late 1950s to be "ages ago."

My point with regard to Iraq and UK:

"In one of your posts you refer to the British involvement in Iraq and put a rough period date to it of the 1950's. The British left Iraq in 1932 - Iraq joined the League of Nations, as a fully independent country in that same year."

As far as I am aware I have never disputed that Kuwait was a British Protectorate from 1899 until 1961. What I have disputed is your contention that Kuwait was ever part of Iraq, perceived or otherwise.

If indeed Kuwait is perceived as being part of Iraq it is a perception that they have publically renounced on at least three seperate occasions, signing treaties to that effect. But then they have never been very good at honouring their obligations - as the last 12 years have demonstrated.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 02:19 PM

Teribus, it says right there in the article you copied from the Kuwait Information Service website that Kuwait didn't gain "full independence from Britain" 'til 1961. And that's the Kuwaiti govt. speaking. Did you even read the article before you cut/pasted, then contradicted, it?

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST,VFW
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 05:22 PM

Thousands of innocents? Do you think the US and Brit troops are guilty? The veterans seem to know, and always have, more than the bleeding hearts. What will you say when the troop death toll hits a hundred? two hundred? one thousand? and it will, it certainly will. The administration says "at all costs". I wonder how many members of the administration have kids in harms way. Do you wonder that?Checked the stock market today? AND there are more disgruntled black muslims "embedded" in the ranks. I wonder when they will decide to cash in their chips and roll a few grenades.........

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 11:14 AM

Yo' Daddy- Is our goal to KILL Saddam, or simply remove him from power? If, as we claim, we are interested in regime change, all we need to do is eliminate the Ba'ath Party's control, and we've accomplished our goals. I am astonished and appalled that you would even consider the use of nuclear weapons in a campaign supposedly intended to "liberate" the Iraqi people. It is, quite frankly, as if not more immoral than Saddam's reign of terror, and would result in the world-wide ostracizing and demonizing of all Americans. Nothing would be a surer way to get hundreds of thousands of innocents killed in retaliatory attacks that would make the WTC look tame.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Yo' Daddy
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 10:03 AM

Forum Lurker, unfortunately we do not all live in the relatively safety and comfort of the free world. There are several ways we can proceed:

1. House to house, village to village search. We may or not prevail
    and the cost in time, coalition forces and money would be         
    unbearable. Civilians will still be executed and tortured.
    Compare Baghdad in size to NYC or LA or any large Metro area and
    really think hard about it.
2. Insert hundreds of Special Ops teams to ferret out and eliminate
    the current Iraqi Regime. Again, this will take a toll on the
    aforementioned assets.
3. Stop what we are doing and pull out all forces and supplies
    immediately. Sit back and wait until the war is in our back
    yard. AND it will come, slowly and surely.
4. Or we can do the "unthinkable". It worked in Japan and ended
    WWII.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 09:21 AM

Or, guest troll, could his error maybe have been in a spiteful, idiotic attempt to extract vigilante justice from people whose only crime was sharing a nation of origin with some terrorists?

Yo' Daddy-Are you advocating the large-scale killing of civilians who, willingly or not, shelter Iraqi soldiers?

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST,troll
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 09:00 AM

This person really made a mistake with the immigrants from India, Guyana, and Russia. The Yemeni? Dead On. His main error, which was probably due to stress, was his poor choice in target selection.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 08:47 AM

Do we suspend due process and just execute this 'murdering fuck' too?
==================

Police say Sept. 11 prompted shootings

Suspect admits killing four in New York City

By CHAKA FERGUSON, Associated Press
First published: Monday, March 31, 2003

NEW YORK -- An unemployed man fatally shot four immigrant
workers in Brooklyn and Queens in what he called an attempt to exact
revenge for the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, police said.

Thirty-year-old Larme Price of Brooklyn told police he was targeting
people of Middle Eastern descent when he fatally shot immigrants from
Guyana, India, Russia and Yemen at work in convenience stores and an
all-night coin-operated laundry.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Yo' Daddy
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 07:34 AM

Wars in the east and mid east and africa are not fought in the gentlemanly fashion as in Europe and certainly not in the fashion of days of yore. If anything the US is too nice when it comes to dealing with terror based regimes. They believe in "no holds barred" when it comes to defending their homelands. We of course, yanks and brits, swoop into battle in proper fashion with proper identification and the rules of the Geneva Convention which we wear like halos shining bright lighting us up like bullseyes. We are met with soldiers in civilian clothes, car bombers (which will increase) and a murderous regime who will stop at nothing, up to and including using women and children as shields and shooting these people if they try to escape. Add to this the lack of backing of the UN and our own politicians. And then there is a flyspeck named Akbar who, for what ever reason, turned on his own. The only way we will survive is to "do unto others as they would do to us, only do it first". It is possible that we have placed Special Forces and Commando "hit squads" in Baghdad and other areas to hunt down and eliminate Saddam and his cronies. If this is true then this is a good start. The Vietnamese defeated the US and the Koreans and the Thais and the Aussies (after soundly thrashing the French) because of the strategies they adhered to. You are entitled to your views, but unless you have "been there" try not to be so critical if some those of us who have "been there" don't agree with you. We have seen what works and what does not work.    God Bless America and God Save the Queen.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Teribus
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 07:03 AM

Lepus Rex,

"A Brief History of Kuwait

Kuwait's modern history began in the early 18th century, when several clans from the Al Aniza tribe migrated to the northern shore of the Gulf from the Najd, their famine-stricken homeland in central Arabia. These settlers combined to create an oligarchic merchant principality, whose economic prosperity was based on fishing, pearling, and trade. Eventually the Al Sabah emerged as the dominant clan, and were formally established as rulers in 1756.

Throughout the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, the Al Sabah proved adept at the kind of maneuvering that was necessary for a small state to survive next to powerful Saudi, Rashidi, and Ottoman neighbors. By the late nineteenth century, however, fears of growing Ottoman influence led Sheikh Mubarak Al Sabah or "Mubarak the Great" (r.1896-1915) to enter into an agreement with Great Britain, which effectively established Kuwait as an autonomous British protectorate.

Under the 1899 agreement, Kuwait maintained control over its internal affairs, while Great Britain assumed responsibility for the country's security and foreign relations. The British also provided advisers to staff the country's nascent modern bureaucracy. Another British legacy is Kuwait's borders, which were established in 1922 and 1923. Iraq affirmed its border with Kuwait in its 1932 application to the League of Nations for membership as an independent state.

In the mid-1930s work began on the development of Kuwait's petroleum industry, the basis of the country's modern prosperity. Oil was first discovered in Kuwait in 1938, but the development of the industry was interrupted by World War II. By 1945, drilling had resumed on a large scale, and the commercial export of crude oil began in June 1946. Oil production and revenues grew rapidly, fueling a dramatic expansion of the entire economy. By the 1960s Kuwait enjoyed a level of economic development that made it one of the richest states in the world on a per capita basis.

On June 19, 1961 Kuwait gained full independence from Britain. Iraq initially refused to accept Kuwait's independence and threatened to annex its neighbor, falsely alleging that Kuwait had once been part of Iraq. Iraq's military threats resulted in a deployment of British troops, which were soon replaced by an Arab League force, and the crisis subsided. In 1963 Kuwait became a member of the United Nations, and later that year Iraq agreed to abandon its threats and recognize Kuwait's independence and borders in a treaty signed by both governments (although there were border clashes in 1973).

In the 1980s Kuwait's stability was shaken by the Iran-Iraq War, terrorist attacks in Kuwait City, and economic difficulties caused by a worldwide oil glut and the 1982 collapse of the country's unofficial stock market, the Suq Al-Manakh. Kuwait's sovereignty and continued existence were critically threatened when Iraq invaded and occupied Kuwait on August 2, 1990, claiming that Kuwait was harming Iraq economically by refusing to reduce its oil production. Many Kuwaitis were forced to flee to Saudi Arabia and other countries. In Saudi Arabia, Kuwait set up a government in exile. As an international coalition of 30 states, led by the United States, prepared to reverse the occupation, Iraq announced it had annexed Kuwait, claiming again that Kuwait had been historically part of Iraq. The Iraqis were forcibly ejected at the conclusion of Operation Desert Storm on February 26, 1991. Departing Iraqi troops looted homes and businesses, and inflicted serious damage on Kuwait's oil industry and environment by setting ablaze 742 of its 1,080 oil wells and allowing crude oil to flow into the desert and the sea. They also took thousands of Kuwaiti prisoners with them.

In November 1994, Iraq formally accepted Kuwaiti sovereignty as well as a UN-demarcated border. Nevertheless, Iraq has provided only partial compensation for property and environmental damage sustained during the occupation and has refused to comply with U.N. resolutions stipulating that Iraq repatriate all prisoners of war. Eight years after Kuwait's liberation, Iraq continues to hold 605 prisoners of war (of whom 570 are Kuwaiti citizens), many of whom were kidnapped from their homes or were arrested at random on the streets during the Iraqi occupation."


In one of your posts you refer to the British involvement in Iraq and put a rough period date to it of the 1950's. The British left Iraq in 1932 - Iraq joined the League of Nations, as a fully independent country in that same year.

Kuwait's border with Saudi Arabia was likewise vague, along the coast there used to be an area called the "neutral zone", claimed by both countries, that anomaly was settled peacefully in 1965.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Gervase
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 02:07 AM

VietVet, EJ, Yo'Daddy - if your views are indeed typical of US service personnel, then it's hardly surprising that America has nearly always failed in the battle for 'hearts and minds' in any non-European theatre of war.
And I'll bet that the battle will be lost again in Iraq - particularly now that suicide bombs have upped the ante.
The gung-ho arrogance and ignorance shown here in some postings is certainly enough to shock and awe! Take a look at Malaya to see how 'hearts and minds' can work.
I can't help but feel sorry from my own compatriots fighting alongside the Yanks around Basra. They may be booties and crap-hats, but they don't deserve neighbours like that!

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 06:37 PM

Yo' Daddy- You see, then no reasonable doubt exists. If I subdued him, rather than killing him outright, I would still hand him over to the police. Due process is always warranted. If any reasonable doubt exists, then there should be no conviction. If, as you state so assuredly without any sources beyond third-hand CNN broadcasts, no such reasonable doubt exists, then you can rest assured that he will be convicted and executed, and your bloodlust will be assuaged.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Yo' Daddy
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 06:25 PM

Due process is certainly warranted is there is a doubt. In this case there is no doubt. This bastard was caught in the act. Do you need any more proof? And in the military you are guilty until proven innocent. Fortunately this prick has seen his last day of freedom.

Question to Forum Lurker and artbrooks:

If this person broke into your house and killed your child and you caught him and subdued him. What would be your "DUE PROCESS"???

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 06:16 PM

EJ-Even if all that were true, it doesn't change a damn thing. As the invective you use shows, you're willing to violate the basic tenets of our justice system because you're angry, and quite likely prejudiced against the suspect because of his religion. Like I said, would you want to live in a country where you would be subject to what you are calling for Sgt. Akbar to be subject to? If CNN said that you had been caught in some heinous crime, would you want people who hate you because of your religion and the description of the crimes you have been accused of to lynch you? I sincerely doubt it.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 04:38 PM

Do the expressions "court of competent jurisdiction," "testimony under oath" and "innocent until proven guilty" mean anything to you? Apparently not. All of the information that has been released on this has come out by way of the media. Guily as proven by CNN? I don't think so. I guess SGT Akbar is lucky he's in the Army where he will get a fair trial rather than in a civilian jail where he can be hauled out and lynched by people who think that time and taxpayer money should not have to be wasted on a trial or on due process.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: EJ
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 03:52 PM

Do you understand that this piece of muslim shit was actually witnessed (seen) rolling the grenades into those tents and that he was wrestled down while he was in the process of firing his rifle at people? What about this incident do you NOT UNDERSTAND? The only problem I see is that this lower that shit bastard was not gunned down like the rabid animal that he is then and there. Time and taxpayer $$$$$$ would not have to be wasted. AND we would not be having this exchange. As it is some defense lawyer will probably try to prove that he was insane at the time or that he was having a "religious crisis". Is this what you want?

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 03:15 PM

Guest of 2:58 PM: Well, let's see, has he been convicted yet? No. Does our justice system mandate that we assume innocence until guilt has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Why, so it does. Would any of us want to live in a system where we could be shot out of hand if someone with power decided we were guilty? I don't think so.

Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Sergeant Kills One, Wounds 15
From: GUEST,yo' daddy
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 02:58 PM

Forum Lurker.   Yes...this low life bastard should be executed. He IS guilt. He WAS caught in the act. There IS NO DOUBT about his guilt. Do you question that?