Origins: Lagan Love

Subject: RE: Origins: Lagan Love
From: GUEST,M. C.
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 09:52 AM

Does anyone know if My Lagan Love with Joseph Campbell's text is in the public domain or not? I understand he died in 1944, and that his words to the traditional tune were first published in 1904. I'd like to know if one can perform this version of the song in public without the need to obtain permission/licence, etc. Up until now I have always thought of it as a traditional song which was in the public domain.

Subject: RE: Origins: Lagan Love
From: Nerd
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 11:04 AM

If we assume the words were copyright in the UK, then I believe the rule is they will pass into the Public Domain 70 years after the end of the year in which the death of the author occurred--so in this case, it will enter the public domain at the end of 2014. The same rules apply in Ireland today.

Subject: RE: Origins: Lagan Love
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 04:00 PM

To repeat what I (or others) always say when somebody asks this sort of question, you don't need permission to perform a song, in the public domain or otherwise. If you record it and distribute that recording (whether for profit or not), simply contact the appropriate agency in whatever country you live in, and pay whatever small fee they require. For public performance, any payment due will be covered as part of a general levy paid by the venue concerned, not the performer.

Subject: RE: Origins: Lagan Love
From: GUEST,M.C.
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 10:17 AM

Thank you very much to 'Nerd' and 'Malcolm Douglas' for taking the time to reply to my query. I'm still interested if anyone else has something to say on the topic, so will check this page again from time to time.

Subject: RE: Origins: Lagan Love
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 11:26 AM

Re "ornamentation" in this song; I haven't heard Redpath's recording, but notice in many others that the "turn" in the second line of verse (or, the music corresponding to this part) on the word "twilight" for instance is usually done in a "classical" manner, that is, after the stress or beat; "the twiLI-i-i-i-i-ight's gleam" &c. However, I think it was Mary O'Hara who does it in what seems a much more "traditional" manner, or perhaps John McCormack: "the
twili-i-i-i-i-IGHT's gleam" &c., with the flutter of short notes preceding the stress. Any views? (apart from the fact that the way I've indicated the difference is rather crude).

Subject: RE: Origins: Lagan Love
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 01:59 PM

Way back there, Susan-Marie asked:

(didn't old English use f's for s's and vice versa?)

You're talking about the "medial s", which is comes out of printing with separate-letter hand-set type. The "medial s" is a form of s which was only used in the middle of a word, so would not be used for "soot". "Medial" like in "median", "medium" etc.--that is, "in the middle".

And not "vice versa"--that is, s for f--either. The medial s sort of looks like a form of f, but if you look closely you will see that it looks like an italic f, even when used with non-italic typefaces, and that it lacks the cross-bar of an f.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Origins: Lagan Love
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 02:17 PM

That might sometimes be so, Uncle; but certainly not always, at least in eighteenth-century typography. I know for certain that the kind of "f"-seeming letter you describe - lacking half of the crossbar, incidentally - would be used at the beginning of a word where we would now use an "s", as long as it were lower-case. It wouldn't be used at the END of a word, where common "s" would be used, and if there were two "f" letters in the middle of a word ("dissent", for instance) only the first of these gets the long shape; thus, "difsent". Sometimes, this practice can provide rather interesting results to a modern reader, and I find it impossible to think that contemporary ones didn't spot something like this, which appears in one of Allan Ramsay's Epistles to William Hamilton of Gilbertfield:

"Of Poetry, the hale quintessence
Thou hast suck'd up, left nae excressence...."

And here's me only looking in to see had anyone made any comment on "ornamentation".

Subject: RE: Origins: Lagan Love
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 02:45 PM

(And only now realised I hadn't signed in half-an-hour back)

Subject: RE: Origins: Lagan Love
From: GUEST,California
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 10:36 PM

Guys I love you all! Hey I'm reading this in California more than 10 years after some of you wrote, and the clues and discussion are great. I've wondered forever what the words meant. The only thing I can contribute is: Frank Patterson. I know the song from his recording on an album I got in the 1980s. My record player doesn't work anymore and youtube doesn't have it, but I still hear him singing it in my head and no other version I can find now tops it. Frank Patterson Frank Patterson Frank Patterson! Roisin O'Reilly's version on youtube is very good too, and I wish someone would post Jean Redpath's so I could hear it. Also, I would never have guessed to go looking for a sister song called Quiet Joys of Brotherhood, but Sandy Denny's version on youtube is wonderful to find, thanks. And, Unchained Melody? Wouldn't have thought of that either, but I guess you're kinda right. An anthem of the heart.

Special thanks to:
26 Jul 98 - 11:24 PM Moira Cameron - door ring / keyhole
16 Sep 99 - 07:44 AM John Moulden - great info
28 Feb 08 - 02:17 PM Guest - making me laugh

Subject: RE: Origins: Lagan Love
From: GUEST,Chris
Date: 22 Nov 16 - 03:59 AM

Doreen=keyhole
Lennanshee is a fairy lover of humans = Leanan sidhe
Is in Belfast was sung to the ancient tune the Belfast maid