BS: Are folkies homophobic?

Subject: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Alasdair
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 04:09 AM

I had a question to ask about Ashley MacIsaac a day or so ago. One of the anwers I got was:

"he's a great fiddler when he's not buggering boys...."

which I found rather shocking. I doubt that this sort of statement represents the attitude of most MudCatters, however I thought it might be worth a discussion.

Any out gay folkies out there? If so, what's your experience in terms of acceptance in the folk community?

Is the folk world an exclusively straight domain?

Al

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 06:12 AM

Perhaps you should try asking Roy Bailey.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: greg stephens
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 06:14 AM

Twas either you or I betrayed
The handsome cabin boy

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Cluin
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 06:16 AM

I dunno.... I wouldn't have said he was that great a fiddler anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Alasdair
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 06:27 AM

Dave - who's Roy Bailey?

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: GUEST,Openminded
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 06:42 AM

Alasdair theres certainly a few phobes around here judging by the catty little responses your worthwhile attempt at starting a discussion has drawn..

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Bagpuss
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 06:51 AM

Since the comment you received was from an anonymous guest, I wouldn't count it as representative of folkies, or of this site in general. Incidentally, I didn't read the phrase "buggering boys" as necessarily homophobic, more an accusation of paedophilia. Of course this could be a homophobic comment if the person was putting across his opinion that all gay men are paedophiles.

Anyway, I haven't heard any homophobic comments among folkies that I know, and I wouldn't like to tar a whole community with one brush because of the comment of one anomymous guest.

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Catarina
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 07:07 AM

Dunno about folkies. I surely ain't! Homophobic, I mean. But, mind you, lots of people are. My parents are. My own brothers are. Most of my fellows at work are. I've even met a few gay guys that are. It's a mad world realy!

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 07:07 AM

I can't think of any good reason why folkies should be more or less homophobic than any other group of people.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: GUEST,Openminded
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 07:11 AM

I suppose if we assert that every heterosexual may have been engaged in underage sex then that is not being hetero-phobic.of course most folkies are normal rational people not obsessed with a burning hatred of gay people,but the few that initialy responded to alasdairs opening discussion certainly seemed a little prejidicial in their outlook...So could we not balance this with something more than dismissing my comments as an anonymous guest..you after all are a character from a childrens tale how transparent is that ha ha..

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Alasdair
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 07:16 AM

Hey Bagpuss - was no brush-tarring going on. As I said in my first note, I don't think this would represent the attitudes of most people here, nor of most folkies. Thought it might make for some interesting discussion.

I think that the GUEST used "buggering boys" as a homophobic slurr since there's no reason to Ashley MacIsaac is a paedophile.

I find folkie environments are something of a mixed bag in this respect. People are often really chilled out but at the same time strangely conservative. I was at the Fleadh Cheoil na hEirann last year, attended by about 300,000 people (so I believe). I can't remember the last time I was in such a large crowd with no apparent queer element.

Al

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Bagpuss
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 07:20 AM

Guest - openminded - I think you misunderstood me. I was referring to the anonymous guest who made the comment in the original thread - which I assume wasn't you!

I only said it didnt necessarily look like a homophobic comment, because the Guest may have been making an accusation of paedophilia for whatever reason, not necessarily because he was assuming that all gay men are paedophiles. However I did state that if he was implying that all gay men are paedophiles, then it WAS a homophobic comment, rather than a specific accusation against the musician in question. So I don't understand why you have a problem with what I said.

"you after all are a character from a childrens tale how transparent is that"

Transparent? In what way, could you please explain what you are implying here?

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: GUEST,Openminded
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 07:30 AM

Bagpuss you are using an alias yourself...he or she who lives in glass houses shouldnt throw stones comes to mind ha ha...But surely if some degenerate comes on here asserting that just because somebody is gay they must be a paedophile.then we as hopefully more intelligient folk should say a few words in the direction of what is right...but I do agree that such hateful nonsense is not worthy of dignifying by acknowledgement rather than because they are anonymous. perhaps the Mudcat administration should delete such libelous rubbish..

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Grab
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 07:38 AM

Bagpuss, I believe the guest was saying not to dismiss him just bcos he didn't sign a name to it, bcos your name doesn't say explicitly who you are either.

However for the guest's benefit, *any* name does tell us that the same person is posting each time, which isn't something we get to find out about with guests. So if I post something dumb on one thread, my plausibility suffers everywhere (and if I post something intelligent - as if! - then if goes the other way). By contrast, a guest can post something dumb in one place and we don't know who it was, so at their next post we can't take into account that they have a track record of talking rubbish (or vice versa again, we can't take into account that we should pay more attention to a well-informed person posting as a guest).

This is particularly relevant given Alasdair's reason for starting the thread, which was in response to some flamebait post by an anonymous guest.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Bagpuss
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 07:45 AM

I wasn't denigrating all guest posters here. But there has been a clear pattern on this site of anonymous posters who dont even use a handle, coming on and making a single post to stir shit. I was just making the point that we shouldnt make any conclusions about this site or folkies in general on the basis of a shit stirrer who doesnt even use a consistent name. I'm sorry if i gave the impression that i though all guest posters were a problem, that is no the case.

Yes I use an alias, like many people on this site, but I make no secret of my identity and I use my handle consistently, so if anyone wants to check what I have said in the past they are perfectly able to do so, and they will most likely find places where i have mentioned my real name, where I live and all sorts of other stuff.

"if some degenerate comes on here asserting that just because somebody is gay they must be a paedophile.then we as hopefully more intelligient folk should say a few words in the direction of what is right..."

My point was that that wasn't what the guest in question said. he implied that the person was a paedophile. For all I know he may have has a multitude of reasons for doing so, and only he/she can tell us what they were. In any case, making unbacked, anonymous personal attacks on a person in that way is cowardly and reprehensible. And if indeed we was making a judgement on all homosexuals, then that too is reprehensible. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clearer in my original post.

However the title of this thread was "Are fokies homophobic?" - so I thought I would address that question, by pointing out that you can't judge a group on the actions of a cowardly few.

I really don't understand why you reacted so badly to my post - I didn't in any way condone the words and actions of the original guest, just questioned the interpretation of it. I can only assume that you took offence as you thought I was attacking all guest posters, and I hope I have made it clear that I wasn't.

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Alasdair
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 07:58 AM

Bgpuss, GUESTOpenminded, Grab - I think you guys are having a communication breakdown, think you're all actually saying the same thing in reality.

Al

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 09:13 AM

Alasdair, you might this thread of interest: Historical lesbian/gay/bisexual songs?

Just my 2 cents worth, I read Bagpuss' comment as referring to the anon. guest in the other thread who posted what, imo, was a slur in using the expression "buggering." However, I will NOT get into another one of the anon. guest vs named member debates, again. I thought we'd run them into the ground and it's been nice not to see any of that for the past week or two.**bg**

In answer to your question, Al, I have seen some homophobic attitudes on the Mudcat, not many, but some. I have also seen some ignorance, but those have been willing to learn. I don't think it was anything on their part except just not knowing whom to ask for info. By and large, I have seen mostly acceptance and support. Most folkies don't think of it as an issue at all, imo.

bi, for now and always,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 09:19 AM

To try and get back to the point of this thread....and it is a serious topic, one well worth discussing, let me say that in my case, I went to counselling for years to get past my problem. From my earliest years I was petrified of and stayed away from any homogenized products. It took years, but I can now drink both milk and orange juice.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Alasdair
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 09:31 AM

Cheerz Kat! I did find that thread while I was searching through the site.

Spaw - it took a while but now I can drink pink grapefruit juice in public. WITH a cocktail umbrella.

later

A

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 09:35 AM

Geez man....What a breakthrough!!! I am envious!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Alasdair
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 09:44 AM

I'm trying to get to the stage where I can lipsinch to Abba records with a hairbrush whilst wearing a second-hand wedding frock and not feel ashamed...

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Peg
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 09:54 AM

Clinton Hammond has made homophobic comments before on the Mudcat (about Ashley MacIssac specifically); usually just lame jokes but also nasty graphic insults. It turned into quite a flame war, er, discussion. But at least he used his own name attached to his comments. Then again, who knows who this GUEST is?

There does seem to be some degree of homophobia in the Irish music community here in Boston; which is a sort of microcosm of the traditional music community. Hard to say why, but then this community is also rather misogynistic and racist as well, and this is historically true of the Irish-American population (go figure, since they were discriminated against when their Irish ancestors first arrived here). Not sure if it's an ethnic thing or not, and it certainly sounds like I am stereotyping, but it is certainlyw hat I have observed (and I am half Irish-American).

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Alasdair
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 10:04 AM

Hey Peg. Your comments are interesting. Ireland itself is quite a conservative country, relative to the rest of Europe anyway. There isn't a lot of ehtnic diversity in Ireland either.

As a side issue, I think that the celtic nations in general held on to hard-line religion for way too long, not necessarily such a great starting-point for tolerance/acceptance of homosexuality.

Al

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: GUEST,Davetnova
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 10:05 AM

Alasdair, you made find just the clothes to help you here http://www.utilikilts.com/ . In answer to your question I don't think "folkies" are any more homophobic than any other section of society, probably less so.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 10:05 AM

In these days of Political Correctness, all sorts of things could be taken as homophobic. I know of several songs which by making jokes about gays, could possible be classed that way. On the other hand, I used to have a gay colleague who liked making jokes about straight sex and it never bothered me. I think that if you belong to any minority: folk singer, morris dancer, bodran or banjo player, you will be the butt of jokes. I used to go to a great wine bar (sold good real ale too) which was run be a gay couple. The main entertainment of the evening was when they'd have a row and start making the bitchiest remarks to each other (we were sure it was a put-up job). Some of their gay friends would join in and it was hilarious. I heard more gay jokes from them than anywhere else.

My comment about Roy Bailey was based on the fact that on the last occasion I saw him, he seemed to be trying to make the audience feel that they were in the wrong if they weren't gay - see This Thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Alasdair
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 10:22 AM

Davetnova - cheerz for the link. A denim kilt may indeed be my next major clothing purchase.

Dave - Totally get what you mean in terms of joking. I'm not a PC-freak and enjoy a joke at my own expense as much as another man. The comment that triggered of this thread, however, was not a joke. I think that the difference between what might be a joke and what might be considered a (homophobic) insult is twofold:

1. intent.
2. whether or not it's funny.

later

Al

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 11:15 AM

Wouldn't this mostly depend on where you live? I participated in the Gay Pride Day festivities in Toronto for at least 10 succesive years, and never gave a second thought to what 'anyone might say'. A couple of times I made the front page of the paper under a huge sign that said "Gay Rights" (as part of Lesbian Singer Arlene Mantle's Band) and I can't remember anyone even asking about my orientation. My good wife Heather often comes to gigs, so maybe that had something to do with it, but I doubt it.

There are many "Irish Sessions" in Toronto, but I simply think that if their were any overt homophobia, the culprit would be called on it pretty fast. The whole "Canadian way" seems to be more "live and let live", so (and this is just my guess) folks who might want to make "faggot" jokes don't get much peer-support, and eventually just grow out of it.

I'm sure there's still quite a bit of 'behind the scenes' dumbness, though. We Canadians can at times be far too smug for our own good.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Alasdair
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 11:17 AM

Canada is way PC. Not talking from ignorance, have lived in Montréal and BC. was born in Canad in fact. But here's the thing: not everywhere is that progressive Rick.

Al

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: MMario
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 11:34 AM

I think it's more that in Canada "politeness" is more common.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: michaelr
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 11:55 AM

I ain't homophobic. Just cain't stand them damn faggots.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: DougR
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 02:19 PM

Only against conservatives. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 02:26 PM

May I turn this on it's head? I run a sucessful folk club and festival. We get funded by both local and central government to a certain extent. It is ALWAYS a condition of that funding that we make our activities available to everyone. Whatever race, colour, creed, gender, sexual preference, age or abilty (Have I missed anything?).

I actively, and gladly, follow the guidlines laid down. Even if there were no such guidlines I would not discriminate against anyone. We actively encourage participation in our events by anyone and everyone. We have had Gay, Afro-carribean, differently-abled, Ukranian (and even Canadian ;-) ) acts topping our bill.

However when we have offered our services to any carnival, festival or event arranged by the gay, afro-carribean, asian or any other group we have invariably been turned down. And believe me we have tried!

Why, oh why, oh why, then (Sorry points of view!) is it OK for people to tar folkies as homophobic, or racist or whatever? It would be very wrong indeed to call anyone anti-white or beardist (!) or male hating just because they take the piss out of Morris dancers.

It is so completely wrong to make a joke about someones preference for boys while it is OK for the people to advertise fish by mocking a traditional musician having his concertina cut in half? Is it good that traditional English dance is mercilessly lampooned by the media while gay art is, apparantly, beyond critisism?

C'mon, folks, get real here. Everyone has their own preferences and will stick with them. They will take the mickey out of themselves. They will take the mickey out of someone else.

Homophobic? Not me.

Pro beer drinking, falling over white male? Abolutely!

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 02:28 PM

Faggots taste nice. Here is a recipe.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Nerd
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 02:31 PM

That recipe rules. My favorite is the line:

Serve the faggots with mashed potatoes and green vegetables.

Now what self-respecting gay man could object to being served with delicious food? If they'd just stop using such deprecating language!

It's a weird world, folks!

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 02:33 PM

What people say about MacIsaac might not reflect their opinion of gay men in general. Most gay men don't give media interviews where they say they like getting "golden showers" from teenaged boys. I'm not homophobic but that kind of behavior, especially in public from someone who might be considered a role model, disgusts me.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 03:00 PM

Do people actually worry about sexual orientation these days?

I knew a man, many years ago, who had worked for Bill Monroe as a Blue Grass Boy playing guitar and singing lead. He never recorded with with Bill and his stint was in the fifties when Bill was having trouble getting work and keeping a band together due to the introduction of rock and roll.

This friend was gay and when Bill discovered that he dropped him at some Southern mental instution (read insane asylum) where they “treated” him with electric shock therapy. I guess they did that until he said he wasn't gay anymore. Anyway he described it as incredibly brutal. A bunch of us had to rescue him one time after a suicide attempt. Society had really messed with his mind. Oddly enough, he still admired and performed Monroe's music.

Today, like most people I guess, I have quite a few gay friends and relatives and nobody thinks much about it.

But the milk thing still scares me.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 05:00 PM

The more vital question is: Are homebodies folkophobic???

Well?

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: open mike
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 05:07 PM

"I can now drink both milk and orange juice."
not simultaneously, i hope?! Curdle!
of course homo is latin (or greek?)
for same---homo sapiens?? same as what??

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 05:14 PM

I'd like to be able to disagree with you Alisdair, but I think both you and Mario are right.

We do some VERRRRRRY silly things here to make sure everyone gets included!

Wow! A gay Bluegrass Boy Mark! And I thought the JEWISH ones in the sixties probably had a hard time!!

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 05:16 PM

Strictly speaking, I suppose, given the name of the species I suspect most of us belong to, "homophobic" should mean the same as "misanthropist".

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 05:18 PM

Speaking of homogenized milk- has anyone tasted whole, raw milk lately? I grew up with it- but in recent years it tastes awful.

What's the term for liking the modern stuff? Homophiliac? :0

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 05:59 PM

But that's probably because of the things they put into cowfeed these days. Straight out of a cow that lives on grass, milk still tastes pretty good. But with a cannibal cow, what do you expect?

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Jenny Islander
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 06:17 PM

Naw, not homophobic, but I do belong to the Good Taste Police.

I don't think one's sexual orientation, homo-, hetero-, or bi-, obliges me to excuse aggressive rudeness (your parents ain't here; go yell at them, not me), bad performance art (only Tammy Faye should look like Tammy Faye and I don't care about the minutiae of your sexual awakening because you have nothing profound, or even funny, to say about it), serial monogamy with younger trophy partners (which leaves me thinking, "You're middle-aged--deal with it!") or sleeping around (herpes, broken hearts, AIDS, gonorrhea, syphilis--did these idiots sleep through health class?).

I should mention that I'm Christian. So is homosexuality a sin? Yeah. It's well below gluttony on the list; at least sins of sexuality usually involve two people having fun with each other and paying attention to each other instead of solitary obsession and greed. Why homosexuality is the sin so many preachers go coocoo over, when gluttony is one of the biggest spiritual problems in America, could be the subject of a whole 'nother site. Anyway, when I am no longer troubled by gluttony or any other deep primal need gone outside the bounds (which is the etymology of "sin"), I will have the right to lecture somebody else on their variety of consenting naked rumba partner.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Ulysses 1874
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 06:25 PM

-----------------
From Alasdair:

Hey Peg. Your comments are interesting. Ireland itself is quite a conservative country, relative to the rest of Europe anyway. There isn't a lot of ehtnic diversity in Ireland either.

As a side issue, I think that the celtic nations in general held on to hard-line religion for way too long, not necessarily such a great starting-point for tolerance/acceptance of homosexuality.
-------------------------

Ireland still has limited ethnic diversity and we have seen increasing evidence of racism over the last 5 years.

The position w.r.t. homosexuality is somewhat different. Until the mid-90s, homosexuality was illegal in Ireland. However, for a very long time prior to that the law had been allowed to fall into disuse. Even in the 1980s, homosexuality never captured the imagination of Ireland's "moral indignants" in quite the same way as issues like abortion, contraception and divorce.

An aside on religion: I saw a survey a couple of weeks ago (one of the Irish Sunday papers) which compared attitudes to religion and God in a number of countries. In a number of European countries, including the UK, around 30% of people agreed with the statement "Religion is important in my life". In Ireland, the figure was about 35%. Slightly higher, but not all that different, especially when compared to figures of the order of 60% in the United States.

In 2003, Ireland really isn't any more socially conservative or liberal than anywhere else in Western Europe.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 06:50 PM

I suspect McGrath is right re the milk drift. To continue this drift...

I've never had the pleasure but did as a child in the 60s go and "help" a friend's father on a farm in North Wales and got to drink the milk from the coolers (I'm not sure of the correct term, I mean after the cows had been milked in the milking parlour and it was kept cool). The herd there was mostly Guernsey and the milk was the best I have ever tasted.

My mother Pip was brought up in rural Shropshire (border territory). She has told me of farms there keeping their own milking cow for their own use. I believe this cow would often be a Jersey, that she has drunk the milk straight from the cow and that it was fantastically rich.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 07:37 PM

I suspect that McGrath has the right take on it. But that is SAD, even outside the witting corruption of their diet. In the name of convenience, cost reduction and disease prevention we are adulterating every consumable.

The taste of cow's milk (perhaps that of all mammals) is very dependent on whatever the cow has been eating. I remember my mother getting irate over someone having allowed the cows to get into a patch of wild garlic.

Jon, when I was a kid on the farm we had a cream separator. Every night my dad let us have a bit of frothy freshly separated milk. Ambrosia.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: GUEST,jaze
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 07:47 PM

Spaw, I'm glad therapy was successful for you! But more seriously, has anyone esle noticed that nowadays it seems to be more acceptable in many areas of society to be prejudiced against gays whereas out and out prejudice against Blacks is not PC? Perhaps homophobia has always been there, but it seems much more prevalent now.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 09:21 PM

jaze-Homophobia is, as far as I've seen, generally not accepted. It seems more prevalent now both because more people are openly gay and because it is now seen as prejudice. A century ago, gays and pedophiles were treated about the same. You don't think about something as prejudice when it's universal and "obvious."

open mike-homo is greek for same, and latin for man. That's why there's the apparent difference. Technically, homophobia should be "the fear of sameness."

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: InOBU
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 09:28 PM

Well, NY, for the most part, the folk scene is not, the Irish American folks are, but they actualy only come to NY for the parade, most don't live here, and the Irish music scene is for them most part is not... as the music scene here is more mixed with people recently arived, who are often more liberal than Irish Americans... Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 09:46 PM

Juneau, Alaska is noted for its difference-friendly attitude. I don't know which came first, the attitude or the non-mainstream practices. (Or perhaps it has to do with the Alaska frontier mystique. As is often said, if you want to find a man up here, the odds are good- but the goods are odd. :) Whatever the reason, it's here; a refreshing change. Bankers have coffee with surfing nuts, pilots of both water and air are as prized as investment officers, fishermen are honored. And I've never heard of a gay person being hassled here. Although, it must be said, I haven't asked any of my friends that question.

BUT. I have noticed that during the Independence Day parade every year when PFLAG (Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays) marches past, a certain stillness descends upon parts of the crowd.

It just occurred to me that maybe the group needs to do something, instead of just being? Other groups and floats are parading an activity or costumes or skill. As it happens, they have a wonderful Pride Chorus- absolutely great voices. If they would prepare a couple of numbers, they'd get a lot of applause. I'm going to suggest it to a couple of them...

I'm probably missing the point- maybe just being is or should be, enough? And yet, we don't see the necessity for African-Americans to band together or fishermen to drag their nets through town or bankers to carry baskets of green down the street...