BS: Are folkies homophobic?

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 10:20 PM

"Homo" is Latin means man in the sense "human being", (as well as meaning "same") - "vir" is the word for male human being. Both are translated as "man", which makes for confusion and irritation.

Homophobia is a bit if a barbarism, by which I mean a word that's been cobbled together out of roots that don't rally mean what they are use to mean - as Forum Lurker pointed out, it just means fear of the same. But then the word homosexual is a barbarism too.

On the whole I'd suspect the folk scene doesn't worry too much about people sexual preferances. I can't see why anybody's sexual preferances is of the least interest, unless they are someone you fancy or who might fancy you. And I rather think that's how folkies generally see things.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 28 Mar 03 - 10:43 PM

Folkies, broadly defined as performers of acoustic-oriented music, are a lot less homophobic than the public at large. However, I think that there is a lot more acceptance of lesbians in acoustic music than of gay men. There's a whole subset of lesbian musicians who've attained mainstream success, but not too many gay guys. While there are probably a lot of gay male musicians who make a decent living gigging at gay bars and such, Rufus Wainwright is the only openly gay guy that I can think of who has had anything resembling much mainstream success. Compare that with lesbian acts like Melissa Ethridge or The Indigo Girls who sell zillions of CD's and play sold-out concerts night after night.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: GUEST,Openminded
Date: 29 Mar 03 - 04:17 AM

Thanx for explaining your point Bagpuss....I fully accept what you say about your sign in name...

I've recorded several acoustic musicians who were gay,they were excellent musicians and very normal sane sensible people not foaming at the mouth for an encounter with a young boy....

As for Boston and the Irish community..I am a Londoner of Irish descent,and I can testify that Ireland is riddled with prejudices probably born from all the medieval religious indocrination thats long gone on their that has created a culture of pointing the finger at anyone slightly different...Things are getting better slowly..I have noticed on my visits they have become more cosmopolitan and much less phased by foreigners and these days Dublin has its own gay area,but whilst catholics and protestants are still unable to live together in harmony you cant realy expect too much enlightenenment from such a country that still remains divided by such ancient religious differences.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Cluin
Date: 29 Mar 03 - 04:28 AM

Well, I ain't no folkin' homophobic. Yew jus' take that back, now, y'hear?

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: GUEST,Openminded
Date: 29 Mar 03 - 05:00 AM

No need for any of that folkin language around here thankyou ha ha.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Ulysses 1874
Date: 29 Mar 03 - 08:42 AM

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Posted by GUEST, Openminded:

I am a Londoner of Irish descent,and I can testify that Ireland is riddled with prejudices probably born from all the medieval religious indocrination thats long gone on their that has created a culture of pointing the finger at anyone slightly different...Things are getting better slowly..I have noticed on my visits they have become more cosmopolitan and much less phased by foreigners and these days Dublin has its own gay area,but whilst catholics and protestants are still unable to live together in harmony you cant realy expect too much enlightenenment from such a country that still remains divided by such ancient religious differences.
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At the risk of causing (a) "thread creep" and (b) an Irish flame debate, I have to say that Openminded could be better-informed and more, er, openminded.

Ireland's culture has its prejudices, as does any. For most of the 20th century, Ireland was the most homogeneous society in Europe in terms of both race and religion. But "medieval religious indocrination" has not been part of the landscape here for a very long time. I was brought up in the 1960s and 1970s. Like the overwhelming majority of my generation, I am not an indoctrinated Roman Catholic. I personally know, at most, 3 or 4 people whom I would regard as devoutly religious - and they are not all Roman Catholics. For a variety of reasons, God and faith are less central to Irish culture than they were in the past. The change has been most noticeable and rapid in the last 10 years, but it began a long time before that, in the 1960s.

And with the greatest possible respect, Openminded's point about Catholics and Protestants being unable to live together makes no sense. If Openminded was talking about Belfast, or Glasgow's cathedrals of hate at "Darkhead" or "Ibronx", I'd agree with the point. But I fail to see the relevance of this issue to the city and country in which I live.

Salud.

Ulysses

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 29 Mar 03 - 06:20 PM

I haven't seen more homophobia among folkies than among the general population. Nevertheless, I rarely see openly gay men at folkie events, the exceptions being Rick Libert and Andy Buck, who perform together as Rick and Andy. Lesbians, as has been pointed out many times, have made themseleves well known on the folk scene.

The only truly homophobic incident I can recall was at an open mike at a bar in New York City. A young male singer performed Dyaln's He Was a Friend of Mine soon after Matthew Shepherd's murder in 1998 and dedicated it to the victim. There were some boos and catcalls all throughout the song, while the MC was ineffective in restraining them.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 29 Mar 03 - 08:01 PM

I fail to see why, linguistically, "homosexual" can be considered a barbarism in the same way that "homophobia" undoubtedly is.

"homosexual" means attracted to the same sex, whether male or female.
Is there any other succinct way of describing the condition?

It should also be noted that "homo" meaning "man" in Latin has no connection whatsoever with "homo" meaning "same" in Greek.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Troll
Date: 29 Mar 03 - 08:55 PM

This isn't the folk scene, but when I was in Japan last year working for Disney around 90% of the male dancers were gay. It was accepted and no one thought anything about it. We were all performers and there to do a job. They even made jokes about it.
There was one young man named Denny who was very swish. He would come down to the common area at E-village where we all lived and announce,"All right peasants. The Queen of E-village is here. Someone peel me a grape."
It's a little hard to think badly of someone with that kind of sense of humor.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 05:56 AM

I can think of at least a dozen gay folkies who I know, some of whom have "come out" and some who consider it their own business. None of them (with the possible exeption of Roy Bailey) make a big thing of it on stage, in fact one of them makes a habit of singing quite macho songs about hetero sex. I can also think of at least four transexuals on the folk scene, at least two of whom have managed to come out with good female singing voices.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 08:42 AM

I always figured Dave Van Ronk was really a woman.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Allan Dennehy
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 08:45 AM

I live in Copenhagen and things are very relaxed here of course. However I have yet to meet a single gay person on the folk scene over here which is a pity. Gay people, in my experience tend to add a lot of wit and personality to a forum. Maybe gays do tend more in the direction of disco music. Please note I said tend. Havent meet any homophobics over here on the folk scene either, I'm glad to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Alasdair
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 03:32 AM

Thanks to everyone for contributing to the duscussion. Lots of interesting stuff raised...

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 06:23 AM

I always used to like the badge that was current at one time - "How dare you assume I'm heterosexual". Anyone could wear it.

The point is, this kind of stuff is people's own business. A history of intolerance and persecution, which hasn't gone away, has given it a sort of iconic significance, so that people talk about being "openly gay" and so forth.

But it's really a bit like talking about people being "openly vegetarian" or even "openly folkie".

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 07:09 AM

I can't say much about Dave, other than he stood with us at the Stonewall, but I can assure you that despite appearances Terri is all woman.

Subject: RE: BS: Are folkies homophobic?
From: Jeri
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 08:37 AM

Maybe one reason the folkie population doesn't appear to contain a similar percentage of gay people as the general population is that people don't tend to be as in-your-face about anything and folks don't seem to care as much. I'm making some pretty huge generalizations, but I'm just wondering.

I was at a songwriting workshop once, and was halfway through it before the leader mentioned he was gay. He did this because it was pertinent to what he was discussing - the context of a song or writing about relationships or something. I can't remember exactly. I, and it appeared others who hadn't previously known, filed this bit of information away much like we would have if he'd revealed his favorite color was blue or he was a vegetarian. I was impressed with his grace, in both talking about himself and in the songs he'd written.

I think what may be true, in folkiedom as well as anywhere, is that it's (mostly) not a person's sexual preference they have a problem with, it's their attitude. I also believe there's a good chance laid-back folkies may have more of a problem with loud, seemingly humorless, "up yours" divas of any sort. Now, if ya wanna talk about "egophobic"....