More Music on Radio Not Less.

Subject: More Music on Radio Not Less.
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 02:54 PM

Carryng on from the thread about the closure of the Henry Ayrton SAhow in the North of England.

I spoke to an ex-BBC executive last night during a social occasion.

His advice was as follows.

There is little point in pursuing local radio looking for folk music. The BBC has reduced all sorts of specialist music programmes from local radio – not just folk – and is continuing to do so.

That is not to say we should not pursue this – but rather use it as a lever to get more folk on Radio 2. If you add all the audiences in folk-clubs together and all the musicians in sessions together and all the people that go to festivals together and assume that they are all different people it is unlikely that you will come up with more than 400,000 people. In fact of course they are mostly the same people and that figure is considerably less. My friend thought that the Mike Harding show attracted about 750,000 listeners on a regular basis.

He therefore suggests we campaign for more folk music on Radio 2. Now I know there are people who have been doing this for years and have occasionally become disillusioned over the responses from the BBC. I started doing it years ago. (And I confess - gave up).

However there is no doubt there is more stuff coming on stream at the moment e.g. the success of the Carthy programme on BBC 4 and the way that is showing more folk; the respect that the Radio 2 Folk Awards get; Young Tradition Awards; the perceived success of A Place in England on Radio 3; a the network of contacts built up over the PEL issue; the folk music degrees;the higher profile of folk in the mainstream of music etc etc…….

We have some good arguments in our favour but the best two I am assured are first that it is getting "cool" amongst the younger generation; it is not done by commercial radio and the BBC does have a remit to play music not played elsewhere. I don't have a vision in my own mind how such a new programme might be defined so I wonder if people would like to share their thoughts via this thread.

And in the meantime I will try and find out where the pressure is best applied.

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk
www.holmfirthfestival.com

Subject: RE: More Music on Radio Not Less.
From: GUEST,Walking eagle
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 04:33 PM

You know, it's too bad you don't have any way of estimating how many listeners 'tune in' via the World Wide Web. That would probably add to the count.

Hmm, looks as though the BBC may be going the same way as the majority of our radio statiions are going here in the states. Local programing is a rarity. I'm sorry to hear this.

W.E.

Subject: RE: More Music on Radio Not Less.
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 05:51 PM

In the 70's I used to think the level of BBC coverage of folk was abysmal. But on radio 2 then they commissioned loads of talks from me on topics ranging from Carolan harp tunes via seasonal celebarations, NW English fiddle tunes, folk banjo styles to Thoams Hardy's references to folk music. And not only did they commission the talks, they paid musicians(up tp 5 or 6 per programme) to record examples. Now, can you imagine Radio 2 doing that now? Or any other radio channel?

Subject: RE: More Music on Radio Not Less.
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Mar 03 - 05:55 PM

In a similar thread elsewhere (uk.music.folk) it looks as though it might be a good idea to pressurise Radio Three rather than Radio 2. Catters thoughts on this too would be welcome.

And some good advice from Ian (froots) Anderson.

Re-reading my first post it must be clear that the protests to Radio Humberside go on!!

Dave

Subject: RE: More Music on Radio Not Less.
From: greg stephens
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 06:07 AM

Folkiedave: I have a really stupid gormless friend who would like to know how you find that discussion on uk.music.folk, could you help? (OK I admit it, it's me, not a friend, who wants to know).

Subject: RE: More Music on Radio Not Less.
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 06:38 AM

Greg it depends. Does your ISP supply you with a news server and do you have a news reader (Oultook Express works fine)? If so, you are better setting things up that way.

An alternative is to use Google Groups. It is clumsy and it can take ages for new posts to show. It is however invaluable for its archives. You can find the discussion here.

Subject: RE: More Music on Radio Not Less.
From: Watson
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 07:05 AM

Folk on R2/3 addresses the interests of those wanting commercially recorded music, but folk music on local radio takes a different direction. It is able to feature the local artist, the folk club, the needs of the people in the target area of the radio station in a way that no national programme can.
I very much enjoy hearing Waterson Carthy, or Oysterband or Gjallarhorn on the radio, but I also want to here the local girl who will be a big star one day, or the man who writes fabulous songs that will never be heard outside his own county. I want to know which night the local folk club is on.
However good Mike Harding or Fiona Talkington are, I won't get - or even expect these things from national radio.

Subject: RE: More Music on Radio Not Less.
From: GUEST,Genevieve Tudor
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 08:06 AM

Speaking as, what is now, one of a rare breed I would like to endorse what my friend Watson says. I produce and present a folk programme on BBC Radio Shropshire, Stoke and BBC Hereford and Worcester. It is broadcast live on a Sunday night between 8pm and 10pm. I am local, approachable, flexible - I answer my emails (mostly!) and I promote local gigs and talent - as well as (inter)nationally known famous folkies. I try to cram as much into two hours as I can. I also put my money where my mouth is and I can be found at local sessions - joining in with live music & song.
I'm hanging on in there ... and so is Mick Peat on Derby.
So, let's try to keep folk on local radio ... and by all means get more on national radio ... but - use your local folk programme - if you've still got one left. Radio is driven by audience figures - and if no-one is listening - why broadcast it? It's no good singing about how good the old one is when it's all gone, is it?

Subject: RE: More Music on Radio Not Less.
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 08:11 AM

Like Walking Eagle said, don't they (BBC folks) realize the importance of a worldwide audience via the web? Or is this important?

Subject: RE: More Music on Radio Not Less.
From: greg stephens
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 09:41 AM

GUEST Jon: thanks very much for that info, I'll give it a go.

Subject: RE: More Music on Radio Not Less.
From: Folkiedave
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 02:18 PM

Thanks for those comments Genevieve, and I am delighted to hear your local folk programme is going so well.

Henry Ayrton's programme had survived for sixteen years and was as good as ever. His programme had universal acclaim and that in itself is great. He often had new, good, innovative music on. He is being replaced by a programme that claims to do just that - but for pop music of course.

I shan't give up the fight - though they were careful not to announce it in advance (I got wind through one of the performers who had been on). It was a programme much as you describe yours to be.

However whilst I am annoyed at the BBC and I don't have a TV (!!) I am realistic enough to know it is a bit like an oil tanker and hard to turn around. I do know through here and through other message boards that people are emailing (and it is so much easier than putting pen to paper because they are not sure where you live like they are when you write a letter!)

Anyway - there is some consensus that the BBC might go for more folk on Radio 3 which is where I might try campaign next. (I may not be the only one doing that either!) There are two problems from where I sit.

The first will be getting a performing rights budget so that they can play records. And secondly I am not sure what sort of programme I could actually recommend that is put on. Let me take you through some of my personal quandaries:

Love English music;

Would love to hear stuff from the archives;

Love most quality Celtic Music;

Love innovative UK folk - probably the first major festival to book the Hush featuring Bob Fox.

Love some singers/songwriters so long as they are not displaying their personal angst. Conolly, Bogle, Graham Miles, etc. not Leonard Cohen is an easy way of putting it;

Love the tremendously innovative music coming from Spain, Finland and Sweden, some East European but not so much African music or elsewhere in the world.

Now - think of a word that encompasses all that!!

Any thoughts are most welcome. (And I can compromise - after all I have booked Chumbawamba for Holmfirth Festival!!)

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk
www.holmfirthfestival.com

Subject: RE: More Music on Radio Not Less.
From: greg stephens
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 05:39 PM

How about booking some northern English music from the Boat Band for Holmfirth( hint hint). Just cos we're not from Yorkshire.....

Subject: RE: More Music on Radio Not Less.
From: Folkiedave
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 06:04 PM

Not from Yorks is not a problem - honest.

We booked Hekety and Florida because they are popular darn sarf....
even though Hekety are my personal favourites.....

we also booked Nick and Gordon for the same reason.

We are trying to broaden our appeal to get those heathen southerners (present company excepted (!!)) to come to northern festivals. Now next year we might do the same with Lancashire - and then Midlands and then Scotland............I can see a theme developing.....

in the meantime....tell me what sort of folk programme you would like on the radio !!


Dave

Subject: RE: More Music on Radio Not Less.
From: Leadfingers
Date: 31 Mar 03 - 06:48 PM

Genevieve Chuck us your e mail and any other Folk programmme people
so we can use this new technology thing to some advantage.As you said its easier than writing letters.I remember my Glory Days doing a Folk Programme on the radio in Aden for Aden Forces Broadcasting Service
and B F B S.

Subject: RE: More Music on Radio Not Less.
From: GUEST,Genevieve Tudor
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 03:58 AM

yes - Leadfingers - I can't make those blue things - so here it it in writing.
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: More Music on Radio Not Less.
From: Watson
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 04:05 AM

Assisting those with minds unclouded by knowledge technical:

A blue thing for Genevieve

...and the programme has a web page.

Subject: RE: More Music on Radio Not Less.
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 04:13 AM

I have always had a strong feeling that radio programmes that are described as folk should always make an effort to include a reasonable percentage of what you might call traditional, source singers or whatever(and players). there are untold recordings available. Then the casual drop-in listener at least has a chance to be exposed to the basis of the music, even if it may not be as "accessible" as some more processed and polished performers. That's what I feel will be more likely to turn on the performers, and audiences, of the future.