 sj |
||
|
||
BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!)
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Peg Date: 10 Apr 03 - 01:09 AM Lurker: a "closeted gay" man is one who is gay and probably engages in homosexual behavior but keeps his sexual orientation a secret... a "latent homosexual" is one who does not engage in homosexual practices despite a propensity or subconscious (or perhaps even unconscious) desire to do so...the homosexual urge is repressed...such tendencies often lead men to spend a great deal of time in the company of other men, in intimate situations, and to engage in vaunted "masculine" activities (sports, especially weight-lifting, and combat) or behavior (aggression, violence, exteme physicality, misogyny, and homophobia). Thus there is a fair amount of latent homosexuality to be found in the military... that's just a basic definition, but one that anyone who's taken a basic psychology class could repeat... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 10 Apr 03 - 01:53 AM Slick Willie, Ralphie Nader, Al Boy... Dougie... Rush has gotta love you! Passionate Perversity went out in grade school... try doing some research, and then present your facts. But spouting ardently this rediculous nonsense is good for a dumb bully laugh, huh? Grow up DougR! I enjoyed watching the Stalin-like statue fall! However, there is so much ugliness happening all around that statue, that we don't see. I'm not deeply moved by the enjoyable photo op, and the flag scene was truly odd... War is not a legitimate method for change, when all other options have not been exhausted. Impatience is not a very good moral imperative, if you ask me... Peace, ttr |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: katlaughing Date: 10 Apr 03 - 02:41 AM Doug, you are getting so tiresome with your carping of little substance...do you really love living a life full of pablum? I do NOT watch the news. I read it on the internet and in newspapers. I listen to it on the radio. AND, the sources I use are diverse, promoting freedom of thought. You know? That old listening to all sides of an issue instead of just what the mainstream want you to hear? TV is full of seconds-long *soundbites* meant to stir the emotions with no substance and requiring no thought or reasoning; very rarely is it in-depth, unbiased; non-censored. Also, to everyone: I suggest we all declare a moratorium on treating each other like shit. Do any of us remember the music we came here for? kat |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: GUEST,Boab Date: 10 Apr 03 - 03:06 AM As always, there are those who take delight in doing what they have been itching to do throughout a one-sided battle---come up with their "I told you so"s and great glee in "their side's victory". Well,---not that I think the sentiments of "peacenicks" could ever pierce their super-patriotic hides----there are many millions of us who were, and are, against this ongoing war and who are forever disgusted by the lying propaganda which attempted its justification. The end result was never --and still isn't---in any doubt; the super-power and its retinue were always going to "win" their victory. The fact that such is inevitable does not --cannot---be a factor in its justification. When [if---] it is finally over, the greatest and most genuine relief will be felt by those who abhorred the rush to war in the first place. In some secret hearts, there will be a sneaking anticipation of the next time wee george, donald ,dick,wolf and phoney blair can have renewed hours of glory on C.N.N. May their hopes be forever frustrated. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Gareth Date: 10 Apr 03 - 04:31 AM Well it ain't over yet, but one thing is demonstrated, Saddam Hussain was not loved by his own people, those that he allowed to live that is. The main thing now is to build on this occasion, and rebuild Iraq as a free and democratic nation. Gareth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Wolfgang Date: 10 Apr 03 - 06:32 AM I suggest we all declare a moratorium on treating each other like shit. (kat) Well said. I was against this war, but nevertheless I can feel the spontaneous joy of those who feel liberated. I don't know how many share their feelings of their fellow countryfolk but those I see here or in TV seem genuine to me. However, these sign of joy don't come as a complete surprise for anybody who knew a bit about Iraq, so they are not a good reason for someone who has been against the war to change their position now. Wolfgang |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 10 Apr 03 - 07:10 AM Beccy, why do you say it's Iraq's first taste of freedom in 30 years? The BBC recalled this morning that a Brit general in 1920 ordered that any Iraqi found with so much as a bullet should be shot and his village flattened. Of course that was before UK troops had started using gas on Iraqis. Norton1, re the Berlin wall, it's worth keeping in mind that some of those former Warsaw Pact countries have greater discontent, higher unemployment and smaller economies now than before the wall came down (GDP now around 70 per cent of what it was). Dead Horse, those religious freedoms will be fine until the involve cutting off hands for theft, stoning rape victims to death etc. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: GUEST,Peace Date: 10 Apr 03 - 07:11 AM If it really is all about liberating people from regimes with appalling human rights abuses what is the timetable for liberating the following countries and territories - all given maximum worst ratings for political rights and civil liberties in Freedom House research. Afghanistan Burma Cuba Iraq North Korea Libya Saudi Arabia Sudan Syria Turkmenistan Tibet Chechnya What's the betting that we target Libya and Syria, and completely ignore the same abuses going on in Saudi Arabia and Burma/Myanmar? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: catspaw49 Date: 10 Apr 03 - 07:29 AM I hate to mention anything in these threads at all, and least of all anything humorous, but I think the statue with the hole blown in it's groin is far more symbolic. And while I'm at it, why not a completely politically incorrect joke? You say the Iraqis in the U.S. are dancing in the streets? Are all of the 7-11's closed or what? Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Beccy Date: 10 Apr 03 - 08:39 AM Ok, SRS, let me rephrase then... what do you think so that we can discuss (or argue) about it. Yeesh- semantics. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Beccy Date: 10 Apr 03 - 08:45 AM Okay, Fionn- It's Iraq's first taste of freedom in 30+ years. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: artbrooks Date: 10 Apr 03 - 08:55 AM Lepus Rex says some redneck marine tried to wrap Saddamstatues's head in a US flag. Well, much as I'm sure that many of our Indian Marines would have liked to have had that opportunity, he was identified by a family of first-generation Bermese-Americans in New York as their son, so I'm afraid that he's really a yellowneck. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Bobert Date: 10 Apr 03 - 09:23 AM Well, here is an interesting scenerio. What if there was a big statue of George W. Bush in downtown Washington, D.C. Okay, I know there isn't but with the crowd running country now there very well may be one soon. But lets say, after the arrogant, anti-human, unilaterialist and violent foreign policy of the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfelf/Perle/Wolfowitx regime, I think that if they somehow had to give tne country back to the people, which is doubtful, that their would be a great number of Americans who would delight in tearing down that statute. I'm still unhappy with National Airport being named after a B-movie actor who plunged the country into unprecidented debt and wouldgladly see that name removed... Just a thought. But yeah, I reckon that this scene will become the PR centerpiece of the regime's claim of victory, which it is neither. But it will be shoved down the thoats of any one dumb enough to think that Boss Hog's television is the only way to get news... Yes it will be imprinted in the minds of the masses. But there won't be one hospital scene from the any hospital in Baghdad or picture of a burned out car with the burned corpses of a family trying to flee to safety. Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: GUEST, Claymore Date: 10 Apr 03 - 09:50 AM I'm not sure that the eventual victory was ever really in question, but it is the fact that it was achieved with brillant dispatch and low casualties, in what to most observers was an unprecidented effort to reduce civilian casualties, and preserve the religious and cultural trappings of Iraq, and in the face of the frustrated fulminations of the looney left. When the PC Pacifists go to the groin, and opine that our victories were due to killer faggots, I have to wonder... are they getting any? Can Peg be trusted with the pointy end of a dildo? When the same video is shown from levendy-seven different viewpoints on every cable and satellite station I can get, and presumabley sane people claim it is faked, I have to wonder if that Number 2 Spalding hit on the Moon in 1970 wasn't just product placement. It can't help that CNN is now playing the prior comments of those from the left, who now appear to be idiots in the face of the present state of things. But have some faith, even a blind squirrel finds some nuts. This thing isn't over yet, and there may be something the left can salvage from this situation. Maybe all the Special Republican Guard were gay or prefferred one-humped camels. Maybe one Marine will NOT say, "I just want to go home to my family," when interviewed on TV. Then Clinton's entire first year of the presidency will not have been wasted. (His second year was, of course, spent on the indictments being returned on his Cabinet). In any case, the angels of my better nature have asked me to desist from further rough treatment of the blow-up dolls of the left (which, as we know from the various advertisments, are anatomically correct in every way, and in some cases include hair). After all, the shouts and screams have never bothered me, it's the damn wimpering afterward... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: GUEST,LB Date: 10 Apr 03 - 10:12 AM Claymore, you're so gung ho, get on a plane and go over there and kick some butt. What, you say? Can't make it, have an appointment to get your hair cut? You can dish it out but you can't go do it yourself. Just another armchair warrior with his hand on his joystick while he watches CNN.
Message: This goes to the "ABUSE" department. Your member, who identifies as "Norton1" has been inviting members of this site to post abusive remarks on an unrelated web site's discussion list. If Military.com is a responsible organizaiton, representing members of the military who support, among other rights, free speech, then it shouldn't be necessary to point out that Norton1 has been abusing others who practice that right. His objection is that those others have concerns about or are in outright opposition to the war in Iraq, so has decided to heap abuse on them. I believe this individual, Norton1, crossed from "free speech" to "abuse," and invited his friends to do the same. Perhaps you should speak to this individual about keeping his rhetoric where it is appreciated? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: GUEST Date: 10 Apr 03 - 10:48 AM The "live TV" version of events in Baghdad (note I'm not calling it "liberation") were staged for propaganda purposes. Likely, the men in the video were paid by US troops. How can so many otherwise intelligent people fall for shit like that? C'mon people, you think it was coincidence the toppled statue was in the immediate vicinity of the Palestine Hotel, where the international journalists are housed? I can't believe that anyone would think that this was a spontaneous celebration, when a US tank and US soldiers were the ones who toppled the statue. Do people just check their critical faculties at the door when they go home and turn on the propaganda box? Did that man holding the picture of Saddam and beating it with his shoe, who kept looking at the TV cameras as he did it, look "spontaneous"? Did the men who were actually standing in line just off camera, and taking turns in orderly fashion kicking the picture look like people who were waiting to be liberated, or waiting to get paid by the bribery officer? Did no one hear Rumsfeld's message in his briefing yesterday, when he said there was bribe money available for Iraqis willing to "cooperate" with US troops? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: robomatic Date: 10 Apr 03 - 12:57 PM Beccy - Are you Anti-Semantic? Guest, Peace: I appreciate the list of the bad countries of the world. Are you suggesting it's time to take them on - alphabetically? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Ebbie Date: 10 Apr 03 - 01:44 PM Okay, Fionn- It's Iraq's first taste of freedom in 30+ years. LOL "30+ years", indeed. 1920 - 2003 You know what they say: a billion dollars here, a billion dollars there- after awhile you're talking about some real money - or years. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Beccy Date: 10 Apr 03 - 01:46 PM Oh robomatic- a punster after me own heart. Now for taking on the bad governments alphabetically, hmmmmm... food for thought, eh? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: artbrooks Date: 10 Apr 03 - 05:03 PM An interview with Marine Corporal Chin . |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Peg Date: 11 Apr 03 - 01:20 AM Claymore: Hey, weren't you just in the hospital, dude? Are you sure you want to get yourself all het up with this stuff? You might give yourself another heart attack... But since you have been asshole enough to use my name in your tiresome diatribe, do not blame me if your blood pressure escalates and you end up back in the cardio ward. "When the PC Pacifists go to the groin, and opine that our victories were due to killer faggots, I have to wonder... are they getting any? Can Peg be trusted with the pointy end of a dildo? --If the first part of that statement refers to me, you have misunderstood what I said. I was referring to the morons at military.com's forum, and from what I can tell most of them are, like you, "armchair warriors" (that term so aptly used elsewhere in their thread). Yes, that term does have a rather pathetic "all-Viagra'ed-up-and-no-place-to-go" sort of ring to it, but, well, men who are gung-ho military tend to be pretty lacking in the social graces, don't they? Guns and bazookas and launchers are lovely compensatory stand-ins for the impotence that comes with sexual self-loathing. As for your wondering whether or not I'm "getting any," well, *I* have to wonder: what does my sex life have to do with my ability to identify the latent homosexuality among trigger-happy retards? I can assure you, I am more woman than you'll ever have, and, probably in ways you would not even begin to understand, more man than you'll ever be...I do not need a big sword to hide behind. I have nothing against sex toys, but I have never had the need to make the acquaintance of the "pointy end of a dildo." It does sound like you may well be more familiar with said business end than myself. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: leprechaun Date: 11 Apr 03 - 02:33 AM The war's coming to an end and all you folkies are getting more vicious than ever! Somebody's feelin' a lot of pain! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: mg Date: 11 Apr 03 - 10:00 AM Peg, what you said about the military people, specifically men, was abusive and contrary to what I personally know about them. mg |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: RichM Date: 11 Apr 03 - 10:32 AM Time to cool the anger, folkies? Lots of ugliness happening right in this forum. Questioning contributors sexual orientation, use of sexual stimulants, is irrelevant don't you think? My american homosexual cousin who had an career in the military both as a combat soldier and as a medic in Vietnam, has his own opinions about that conflict---and about the present one. A tougher yet kinder dude than he I haven't met. No stereotype here! And as to viagra use---it's a medication, used by people like me, whose circulatory impairments affect blood flow to my brain, my heart legs, and yes to my penis. So what??? Keep your arguments metaphorically and physically above the belt if you want to change minds! On the other hand if your purpose is simply to vent your anger and frustration, by all means vent on.... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Peg Date: 11 Apr 03 - 12:39 PM for anyone for whom it was unclear (and it appears this needs clarification), my attribution of latent homosexual traits was intended ONLY to refer to the homophobic jackasses on the military.com forum; i.e. the ones who were referring to anti-war Mudcatters as "pussies" "sissies" "queerboy" etc. I was NOT generalizing about all military personnel, but specifically the ones who are at this point in time NOT serving but find it necessary to criticize and threaten anti-war protestors... I am not in the least homophobic (the very thought would be laughable, if you knew me personally), merely making a point about "manly men" who ARE homophobic, and the probable cause for some of it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: GUEST,pdc Date: 11 Apr 03 - 01:16 PM Darn! I have two .jpg photos from the following story and don't know how to put them into the message. So I'm just sending the story along. Was the toppling of the statue staged by the US? A tale of two photos First there is a photo from the BBC website showing the statue toppling. Below that is a long-shot in which you can see the whole of Fardus Square (conveniently located just opposite the Palestine Hotel where the international media are based), and the presence of at most around 200 people – most of them US troops (note the tanks and armoured vehicles) and assembled journalists. The BBC website had the honesty to say that "dozens" of Iraqis were involved, but this grain of truth was swamped by the overwhelming impression of mass joy. The radio and TV were even worse. The masses are no doubt glad to see the back of Saddam Hussein, but this was a US Army propaganda coup, staged for the benefit of the same journalists it had bombed the day previously, and which the British media have swallowed hook line and sinker. Shame on them. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Stilly River Sage Date: 11 Apr 03 - 03:05 PM pdc, just send a link to the articles. I can't find them in a brief search of the site. Or, if you use Netscape to find the page, then view the source or page information, it will give you the location of the photo alone and you can send that link. You have to do an old-fashioned control c, control v to paste it sometimes, depending on your version of netscape and if it will let you right click or not. SRS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: catspaw49 Date: 11 Apr 03 - 03:14 PM Don't post photos in threads. We haven't done that for a long time because of problems it presents. It can be done but they will end up being deleted. Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Ebbie Date: 11 Apr 03 - 03:20 PM "Peg, what you said about the military people, specifically men, was abusive and contrary to what I personally know about them. mg " Mary Garvey, have you taken a look at the military.com site? If you did, can you defend their stance? If you yourself belong to the military, I can imagine you have run into this kind of thing before- but ugly is ugly. I hope sincerely that military women are a different breed of animal. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Stilly River Sage Date: 11 Apr 03 - 03:22 PM Spaw, I think I tried experimenting with a photo in one of the html practice threads some months back and got a message back that I was using "forbidden html" or something along those lines. But there are occasions when the ability to post a thumbnail with an embedded link would be very nice. SRS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: catspaw49 Date: 11 Apr 03 - 03:31 PM Yeah, Sage, I agree, but we ran into problems although now I don't recall what they were...been too long. I think bandwidth but more of a problem was that they tended to lockup threads or something like that. Just one of the things we gotta' live without. Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Amos Date: 11 Apr 03 - 03:57 PM Easy enough to post a text link to a remote photo. For example, recent research using a combination of qu-bit computation, quantum-field-analysis and Kyrillian photography has esatblished this technique for revealing what Spaw's Inner Being actually looks like... A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: catspaw49 Date: 11 Apr 03 - 04:22 PM I gotta' get off the alchohol.......... Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: SeanM Date: 11 Apr 03 - 04:26 PM The pic claiming to be the "masses" of 20-30 or so surrounding the photos can be found at the www.informationclearinghouse.info website, along with the relevant story and much other information. I can't wholeheartedly recommend the site - it has a very pronounced bias - but the picture DOES fit with what little "distance" shots are available of the statue toppling, and some of the other points they bring up (specifically that they spotted at least one person in the crowd bearing a VERY strong resemblance to a member the US puppet resistance group we flew in) are troubling. With that, and everything else I've seen about the incident, I'm inclined to believe that the "celebration" was a press photo opp, staged for the benefit of the cameras. The "perimeter control" that appears to be going on (note the heavy traffic jam being held back by a tank in the upper left of the photo) leads me to suspect that regardless of anything else, the local command spotted an opportunity and wasn't going to let a potential unknown - the actual local mood, and the potential angry rants by relatives of the "acceptibe losses" - spoil what otherwise is a great (though falsified) PR coup. In other news - hands up anyone who's suprised that India is claiming right of pre-emptive strike against Pakistan? Reaping what is sown, part II Favorite quote: "Fernandes said he endorsed Foreign Minister Yashwant Sinha's recent comments that India had "a much better case to go for pre-emptive action against Pakistan than the United States has in Iraq." This is two known nuclear powers soon to be slugging it out here. Who says comedy isn't alive in international affairs? And who else is just rolling on the floor laughing at the ranks of "unnamed foreign dignitaries" all announcing that they feel nuclear proliferation is now the ONLY way to guarantee national sovereignity? Ah, the joys of warmongering. I think I'll go make a homemade explosive and blow my neighbor up - he's harboring roaches that invade my sovereign space, and I'm pretty certain this is only the first step before he tries moving in to my apartment and killing me. M |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: GUEST,Claymore Date: 11 Apr 03 - 06:10 PM Peg, while I concede that my comment about the dildo was a bit over the top, I will quietly try and refute almost every thing else you had to say. The military is FAR better educated than most of the folks that critcize them, with a graduate degree required for most promotions above Major, and at least a BS in many of the senior enlisted ranks. They are FAR more pychologically stable than their civilian equivelents by almost any given statistically significant testing, with numerous tests adminstered to the senior staff due to top secret intelligence and technological requirements. You don't want a nutcase with his finger on the button. Yes, some young nineteen years old kids can think they are being fired on and return fire into the hotel or a 21 year old pilot drop a bomb on some friendlies, but those are by FAR the exception. And since the service's select at every level of promotion, you must get promoted within a certain period of time, or you are separated from the service. The dummies and wackoids don't last. As Mr. Clintons "Don't Ask Don't Tell" critics will note, there are more homosexuals being put out of the service now than were done prior to it's inception. Since I was treated at a VA hospital, only the most clueless would want to ask if I wanted to "strap it on one more time", having served as a Marine Officer in Vietnam in 69 and was called up to serve in Israel during the Gulf War, and having been a police officer in the meantime. I really need no cum stain (not you, Peg) to question whether I would go, as many people on this website should have noted by now that I have never advocated anything I have never done in person, and many times at that. And I was was actually stunned to think that you or any of the others would advocate that someone would have to meet some intellectual or moral test to critcize anyone. "I was NOT generalizing about all military personnel, but specifically the ones who are at this point in time NOT serving but find it necessary to criticize and threaten anti-war protestors..." I fought for the rights of free speech, I am NOT serving now, and damn it, I plan to critcize the living hell of those idiots. (And frankly the only "threats" those folks face is a logic bomb...) But your pop-psych-homo-diatribe was well off the mark, once you actually delve into it, and I suspect that you could never find any scientific study to back up what is obviously your opinion. I am certain that there are numerous young potential gays who enter the military, and a high percentage of those are separated from service. There may be some who continue on and serve their country in excellent ways, but very, very few end up with a gun in a foxhole, and survive. Have a better weekend, Don |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Peg Date: 11 Apr 03 - 06:42 PM Claymore wrote: Peg, while I concede that my comment about the dildo was a bit over the top, I will quietly try and refute almost every thing else you had to say. --good luck. The military is FAR better educated than most of the folks that critcize them, with a graduate degree required for most promotions above Major, and at least a BS in many of the senior enlisted ranks. --again, I was not generalizing about ALL military personnel; I was referring to the idiots in the Marines discussion forum at military.com...A sick little community. In just a few minutes of reading, I found people suggesting that one man poison a co-worker because, apparently he didn't vote; another man was being goaded toshoot a group of anti-war protestors who pissed him off; and another offered some lovely misogynistic comments about women. Can't imagine what I'd find if I had the stomach to read for more than five minutes... They are FAR more pychologically stable than their civilian equivelents by almost any given statistically significant testing, with numerous tests adminstered to the senior staff due to top secret intelligence and technological requirements. You don't want a nutcase with his finger on the button. --hmm, what about that guy that went a little psycho a couple weeks ago in Iraq? What happened there? What abotut he guy wearing the helmet that says "Kill 'em all?" I don't call indicative of that emotional stability. Yes, some young nineteen years old kids can think they are being fired on and return fire into the hotel or a 21 year old pilot drop a bomb on some friendlies, but those are by FAR the exception. And since the service's select at every level of promotion, you must get promoted within a certain period of time, or you are separated from the service. The dummies and wackoids don't last. --I hope you're right about that. As Mr. Clintons "Don't Ask Don't Tell" critics will note, there are more homosexuals being put out of the service now than were done prior to it's inception. --then I guess the policy isn't working, is it? Nice to see homophobia is still going strong in the armed forces... Since I was treated at a VA hospital, only the most clueless would want to ask if I wanted to "strap it on one more time", having served as a Marine Officer in Vietnam in 69 and was called up to serve in Israel during the Gulf War, and having been a police officer in the meantime. I really need no cum stain (not you, Peg) to question whether I would go, as many people on this website should have noted by now that I have never advocated anything I have never done in person, and many times at that. --I personally don't care if you want to serve or not. Don;t do it on my account, certainly. I think this war is unjust and is doing more to destabilize the world and harm the United States's economic and political position in the world than anything since, say, Hiroshima. And I was was actually stunned to think that you or any of the others would advocate that someone would have to meet some intellectual or moral test to critcize anyone. --I didn't suggest that. Anyone can say anything they want. But when they make threats of violence against those who hold anti-war views, it seems they should be held to some sort of standard. I find such threats cowardly, and thus was forced to make the observation that such cowards do not seem to be currently serving their country in the present crisis, yet feel justified in threatening those who consider the war effort to be wrong-headed. "I was NOT generalizing about all military personnel, but specifically the ones who are at this point in time NOT serving but find it necessary to criticize and threaten anti-war protestors..." I fought for the rights of free speech, I am NOT serving now, and damn it, I plan to critcize the living hell of those idiots. (And frankly the only "threats" those folks face is a logic bomb...) --what do you want, applause? I am a writer and a teacher by trade, and therefore *I* also fight for free speech...every day. I just don't need a gun to do it. But your pop-psych-homo-diatribe was well off the mark, once you actually delve into it, and I suspect that you could never find any scientific study to back up what is obviously your opinion. --not true... I am certain that there are numerous young potential gays who enter the military, and a high percentage of those are separated from service. There may be some who continue on and serve their country in excellent ways, but very, very few end up with a gun in a foxhole, and survive. --what are you saying? Gay people don't make good soldiers? That makes you homophobic too, doesn't it? Have a better weekend, Don |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Liz the Squeak Date: 11 Apr 03 - 07:24 PM Statue took a nose dive? So did this thread. Once again a serious discussion turned into a slanging match, this time apparently involving editing from another forum. There was an interview on the radio yesterday with an Iraqi gentleman, who quite rightly stated that there were only a few dozen Iraqi people in that square, in a country of millions. Not everyone feels brave enough to use their newly found right to free speech. One who did told the military this: "Today, for the first time in my life I am excercising my right to freedom of speech and the first thing I want to say is this. Leave our country as soon as possible, so we can get on with our own lives." LTS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Forum Lurker Date: 11 Apr 03 - 07:35 PM Liz-I'm very impressed with him. I expect that a lot of Iraqis are cheering the Americans for the same reason they cheered Saddam: they don't think they have a choice. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Stilly River Sage Date: 11 Apr 03 - 08:15 PM The din of voices that shouted out from the military.com site were crude, stupid, and pushing their weight around in a place where opinions were largely contrary to theirs. They were invited over by a malcontent whom I hope has disappeared from our ranks. This is what they were saying amongst themselves. I found it troubling enough to write backchannel to an individual involved and wish him well and to be cautious. There is no evidence of education or tolerance in that military.com group. They don't sound like brash young 19-year-old military recruits, they sound like older entrenched bigots. As far as I can tell Claymore spells better than most of them, but that's about all. Gender and sex had nothing to do with anything except it became a vehicle for insulting people. That only works if you feel threatened about your own orientation or sexuality, so that was a pretty insecure bunch over there. And since neither Claymore nor Peg apparently IS gay, it could be suggested that neither of them really knows what they're talking about, so should leave that subject alone. Peg's mistake was in picking up the turd the military.com men threw onto the Mudcat thread and throwing it back at them. It splattered everybody as it hit the high wind of their hyperbole. The toppling of the statue was a staged event, and it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. It looks to me like a lot of people need to approach this war with a high degree of skepticism. It would cut down on the arguments if everyone waited for "the rest of the story" (though in this case, I won't link to Paul Harvey, because he probably won't tell the rest of THIS kind of story). |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Bobert Date: 11 Apr 03 - 10:29 PM Forum Lurker makes a good and probably valid point in the cheering Iraqia. Cheer 'em or get your butt shot. I saw those pictures of those Iraqis with their thumbs up. All I could think of was this was tehir way of saying "Don't shoot my butt!" AQnd as for the statue being pulled down. Hey, ain't no PR comapany in the world that will get it to match our mental images of a limo in Dallas. Try as they will, just don't cut it. And now we learn that these same "happy-to-see-ya" Iraqia are living in totol chaos, stealing from and killing each other. Not exactly a real proud moment in American history to take the world most lethal military and destroy the third or fourth rate army of a country and then watch in despair as its survivors just get real uncivilized. As for Peg and Claymore: Take it outside.... please. You're both cool folks in your own ways but..... geeeze. Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: GUEST Date: 12 Apr 03 - 12:12 AM Peg - go screw Lepus and Greg - they need it - funny to watch them get all twisted up again! Dummer than a box of rocks - All three of you - - - Yo momma have any children that lived? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Peg Date: 12 Apr 03 - 01:34 AM Dummer than a box of rocks - All three of you - - - --doesn't that word have a B in it? Stilly River Sage: Since when does one have to be a practicing anything to have knowledge or an opinion about it? You're not in the military yet offered an opinion on the military folk. Do YOU know what you're talking about? Does anyone? ...and Bobert: I don't need a lecture on how to behave in this forum. Honest. Not from you. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Stilly River Sage Date: 12 Apr 03 - 03:43 PM Peg, One doesn't, of course, have to know what they're talking about in order to offer an opinion. I recognize the pop-psychology being offered here regarding sexuality as hackneyed stuff that smacks of Pysch 101 taken in about 1975. As to offering an opinion on the miltary folk, I offered an opinion on the behavior of a group of louts who are members of an association of people not sponsored or sanctioned by the military who signed up to chat with each other about military topics. I told you nothing about my history or exposure to the military. A second pass through those remarks should have led you to the conclusion that my last post was largely in your favor. You're preaching to the choir. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 12 Apr 03 - 06:49 PM Peg. I love your determination, I think your point of view is valid, I like your reasoning, and I dig your general tendency to say the things I wish I had said. Be awesome, find beauty, love more! I don't get the excitement about the statue. The Iraqi troops that have surrendered are a distinct minority... Saddam is "missing" and the whole thing smells like a trap. Duh! If they are overpowered, what are their options? The Iraqis are quite experienced at the "whatever it takes" kind of war, and vendetta and revenge is common currency amoung the most militant. Public opinion is being manipulated, and we may have to pay an even higher price later on for it. I feel like we're all (common people everywhere) being offered up as some kind of corporate sacrifice... and no matter what the outcome, or how high the calling, this war IMHO, has been, and is still, a moral travesty. The worst aspects of the human condition are being encouraged for the selfish gain of a few, and the mass media has been bought off so we can't even get a decent exchange of opinions without bully bashers insulting their way to a world of brutality and ignorance. Let's wake up now! ttr |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Peg Date: 12 Apr 03 - 07:07 PM Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Stilly River Sage - PM Date: 12 Apr 03 - 03:43 PM Stilly River Sage wrote: Peg, One doesn't, of course, have to know what they're talking about in order to offer an opinion. I recognize the pop-psychology being offered here regarding sexuality as hackneyed stuff that smacks of Pysch 101 taken in about 1975. --my point exactly, which is why I was not sure why I had to keep explaining it...Hackneyed some of it may be but I do think it's true and stand by everything I said... As to offering an opinion on the miltary folk, I offered an opinion on the behavior of a group of louts who are members of an association of people not sponsored or sanctioned by the military who signed up to chat with each other about military topics. I told you nothing about my history or exposure to the military. --that's what I did as well, and I was in turn criticized for criticizing the military in general...I did not say you were in any way involved in the military; just trying to make a point that anyone can have an opinion on anything... A second pass through those remarks should have led you to the conclusion that my last post was largely in your favor. You're preaching to the choir. --It didn't read that way to me. It still doesn't. I suppose that could be my fault...but maybe not. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Gareth Date: 12 Apr 03 - 07:21 PM Question ? Was the Statue demolished ? Did Saddam Hussain rule by consent ? Gareth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Bobert Date: 12 Apr 03 - 08:27 PM Peg: I love ya' and admire yer determination. That wasn't intended as a "lecture". Sorry that you found it offensive. No lecture... Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: The statue took a nose dive (literally!) From: Peg Date: 13 Apr 03 - 01:37 AM S'okay Bobert. Who could be mad at you??? :) |
