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Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song
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Subject: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: Charley Noble Date: 21 Apr 03 - 05:56 PM This old song is hard to track down because of a lack of unique words but maybe these two lines will ring a bell with someone: Don't look at me that way, barman, I ain't gonna shit on the floor! This is one of the lost songs alluded to by Count Palmiro Vicarion in my copy of his unpublished manuscript entitled BOOK OF BAWDY BALLADS. If only he were still with us! Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 21 Apr 03 - 06:58 PM It has elements of Eskimo Nell.
Don't look at me that way, stranger,
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: Charley Noble Date: 21 Apr 03 - 07:09 PM Gargoyle- Well, it's no relation to any lines in Count Palmiro Vicarion's version of "Eskimo Nell," and there are some 56 verses to review. But you may have a fertile thought. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 21 Apr 03 - 07:24 PM Charlie-
Check Abby Sale's amalganated version in the DT. That is where I lifted the lines.
Sincerely,
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: Charley Noble Date: 22 Apr 03 - 08:37 AM I bow to Abby Sale who has about 10 more verses, with a few that are combined in different ways than in Count Palmiro Vicarion's version of "Eskimo Nell." The first verse from Abby Sale, which you cite above, is unique. I'm still not sure what poem or song is the rightful home of the lines I've posted above. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: Abby Sale Date: 22 Apr 03 - 09:07 AM The scansion, if not the words, reminds me more of "Lehigh Valley" Clicky. Anyway, if you don't sing any "Lehigh Valley" valley versions, you should. Great song. Can you give any more of what the Count's song was about? |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: Charley Noble Date: 22 Apr 03 - 01:43 PM Abby- I think we have a winner here in "Lehigh Valley." It feels right to me. The Count was using these two lines as an example of what had been overlooked by his grandfather Sforza "Puffer" Vicarion, in the three volumes of bawdy ballads and ditties his grandfather had bequeathed to himself. Unfortunately, while the Count had been able to add many songs to the collection through his diligent research in libraries, pubs, and the armed forces in WW II, he was unable to nail this song. Another fragment the Count claimed to have heard from a girl from the "Miss Brice School", "all golden she was and with a voice like a lark", had this lilting refrain: Oh, how did Edith ever, Get so shitty round the titty? I've had no luck tracking that one down either. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 22 Apr 03 - 02:58 PM Awe Charlie - The Count IS still with us.
British Poet:
by Christopher Logue
Come to the edge.
Compiled from:
Sincerely,
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: Charley Noble Date: 22 Apr 03 - 03:47 PM Gargoyle- Thanks! You have provided a vital link to the manuscript copy I have in front of me, attributed to Count Palmiro Vicarion, but we've all been assuming that the real editor was our late old family friend Dennis Puleston of Long Island. I will pass this information on to his widow and children. There is also a reference on the second page to The Olympia Press, 7, Rue Saint-Severin, Paris 5. I was curious that the bawdy songs that Dennis sang were not identical to what I found in the manuscript but I assumed that he'd done some additional folk-processing. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: Charley Noble Date: 22 Apr 03 - 04:17 PM After doing some Goggling myself, it's clear that what I have been looking at is an early manuscript, typed on onion skin paper, on both sides no less, that was given to Dennis for review. It was subsequently expanded and published as "Book of Bawdy Ballads. Paris: Olympia Press, 1962 Paperback as edited by Count Palmiro Vicarion." What a strange and wonderful world! Charley Noble, who doesn't really exist either |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: GUEST Date: 22 Apr 03 - 09:43 PM Charley ! Christopher Logue ("Vicarion") really is a noted modern poet. His original partial translation of the "Iliad" is, um, I guess effective is the best word, and he promises more. (The title is "War Music," still in print.) If you do have a 1956 Logue original manuscript, hang onto it; it could be worth $$$$ someday. Meanwhile, how about posting the bawdy ballads for those of us less fortunate? |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: Charley Noble Date: 23 Apr 03 - 07:37 AM Guest Anon.: As is mentioned above Christopher Logue did succeed in publishing a later version of the manuscript that I had a copy of; I mailed the original back to the Puleston family in Long Island and any decisions to sell that original will be theirs. I'm sure you can find a working copy of "Book of Bawdy Ballads. Paris: Olympia Press, 1962 Paperback as edited by Count Palmiro Vicarion" on Bookfinder.com. I do plan to post Logue's introduction to his songbook in another thread; it's quite hilarious. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: Abby Sale Date: 02 May 03 - 12:16 AM Interested as I am in this, I got a copy of Book of... from Inter-Library Loan. It gives First printed May 1956. Is that actually the same year given in the ms? Fast printwork. That's impressive since it's 11 years earlier than the benchmark book, the first "Rugby Songs" volume. Many of the same songs, of course, but significantly different versions. Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Chas. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 02 May 03 - 12:45 AM Abby - Your inter-library book is the obviously the first editon. AbeBooks lists: LOGUE, Christopher] VICARION, Count Palmiro. COUNT PALMIRO VICARION'S BOOK OF BAWDY BALLADS. Paris, The Olympia Press, (1957). Second edition for $25.00 It appears to be one to add to my collection. Thanks Charlie! Sincerely, Gargoyle |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: Charley Noble Date: 02 May 03 - 10:45 AM Wow, thanks! Abby- in answer to your question about the manuscript's date, all I can really say is that the date at the end of its brilliant introduction (which I posted on a separate thread entitled "COUNT PALMIRO VICARION UNVAILED") is 1956. I'm still bummed that this manuscript was not Dennis Puleston's work but I'm trying to find out from surviving family members what the connection was between Puleston and Logue. Charley Noble |
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Subject: Lyr Add: LEHIGH VALLEY (from Vance Randolph) From: GUEST,Q Date: 02 May 03 - 05:57 PM Randolph (Randolph edited Legman), Roll Me in Your Arms, has a few verses that supplement those in Cray and those by Abby Sale in the DT. Version C Recited in 1946, heard about 1910 in Fort Smith, Arkansas. 'Twas down in the Lehigh Valley, Me an' my cousin Bill, Pimped six years for a call-house On top of Red-Hot Hill. We had a girl named Nelly, Keener than any briar, (Nelly she had Bright's disease, an') No man could satisfy her. Then come a city slicker, Smooth an' long-peckered and rich, He gammoned our Nell to run away, The cock-suckin' son-of-a-bitch. Thanks for the whiskey, stranger, I better be on my way, I'll hunt the runt that stole our cunt If it takes till Judgement Day. In 1948, this stanza was collected: It was down in the Lehigh Valley, Me an' my people grew, We was all pimps for a whore-house, Yes, an' a good one, too. Version B. Collected in 1923, heard about 1910: Twas down in the Lehigh Valley, Just me an' my brother Lew, An' we was runnin' a whorehouse, Yes, an' a damn good one, too. Version A is just the introduction (coll. 1964): Don't look at me that-a-way, stranger, I didn't shit in your stew, I just come down from the mountain, And my balls are covered with glue. Randolph (Legman) note that the introduction, "Don't Look At Me That Way Stranger," came later than the versions collected above. This introduction appears in 1930 in an expurgated text (Milburn, George, 1930, "The Hobo's Hornbook." |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: Abby Sale Date: 03 May 03 - 12:44 PM Q: Have a look at Cray's comments on the song. Very interesting. It's one of the bawdy songs that began as a parlor (ie clean) song & can be dated to 1880 or so. There are many versions and variations. Milburn gives a chapter to "The Lehigh Valley Sequence" with six, mostly parlor versions. Yes, his book is expurgated but not too badly so. In this case he gives blanks for the taboo words instead of bowdlerizing. For Legman's 2nd verse above, Milburn (in 1930 - a long time ago for this kind of material) gives: We had a girl named Nelly, And she was some high flyer; She had Bright's disease And you couldn't satisfy 'er. Unwilling to accept the obvious, I now wonder what this Bright's disease actually is. (I don't demand that bawdy hobo songs be medically accurate but I wondered.) It was surprisingly difficult to find but finally I got: Bright Disease - Chronic Nephritis R Bright (1789-1858) An English physician who established in three classic papers the link between dropsy and coaguable urine with renal disease. Coaguable urine becomes cloudy on heating as it contains protein. Bright tested this for this problem by heating urine on a spoon held in a candle flame It is a myth that Bright died from Bright disease - he died from aortic valve disease It is now known that coaguable urine results from protein in the urine. On heating the protein cooks rather like egg white. Protein in the urine indicates nephritis Historically, Bright's disease is often a catch-all for kidney diseases, but strictly speaking is glomerulonephritis, which may be a complication of streptococcal sore throat. [Of course you all know that glomerulonephritis is a form of nephritis characterized by inflammation of the renal glomeruli.] Hmmm. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: Charley Noble Date: 03 May 03 - 12:51 PM Really, Abby, I think you've provided too much information about Bright's disease. How am I ever gonna fit it all into one verse? Sounds like there's some kind of "deep throat" connection here. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: GUEST,Q Date: 03 May 03 - 01:24 PM Bright wrote his description of the disease and its delineation from "dropsy," etc., way back in 1827, and medical works referred to Bright's disease as early as 1831. I admit when I saw the line in the song attrib. to 1910, I wondered if the general public knew the term at that time. Almost certainly, they did by then, but what was the gereral understanding of it? Was there a myth that girl's with Bright's disease couldn't be satisfied? "The Tramp's Story" from Randolph (vol. 4, pp. 369-370) doesn't seem to have been posted. After I check some references to Harrigan to see if I can find more background, I will post it. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE TRAMP'S STORY (from Vance Randolph) From: GUEST,Q Date: 03 May 03 - 08:44 PM Lyr. Add: THE TRAMP'S STORY Let me set down a minute, A stone's got in my shoe, An' don't commence your cussin', For I ain't done dothin' to you. Yes, I'm a tramp. What of it? Folks say we ain't no good, But tramps have to live, I reckon, Though folks don't think we should. Down in that good old valley Me an' my people grew I was a blacksmith, captain, Yes, an' a good one, too. Me an' my wife an' Nellie, Nellie was just sixteen, She was the prettiest creature The valley had ever seen. Beaux, why she had a dozen, Had 'em from far and near, But they was mostly farmers, None of them suited her. There was a city stranger, Young, handsome an' tall, Damn him, I wish I had him Strangled against that wall! He was the man for Nellie, She didn't know no ill, Mother she tried to stop it, But you know a young gal's will. Well, it's the same old story, Common enough, you'll say, He was a slick-tongued rascal An' got her to run away. More than a month after We heard from the poor young thing, He'd gone away and left her With only a weddin' ring. Back to her home we brought her, Back to her mother's side Filled with a raging fever She fell at my feet and died. Frantic with shame and trouble Her mother began to sink, Dead in less than a fortnight- That's when I took to drink. Give me just one glass, colonel, Then I'll be on my way, I'll tramp till I find that rascal If it takes till the Judgement Day! Vance Randolph, Ozark Folksongs, vol. 4, no. 844, pp. 369-370. Said to be from the play "Squatter Soverignty," by Edward Harrigan. Contributed by Miss Lucille Morris, MO, Oct. 28, 1934. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: GUEST,Q Date: 03 May 03 - 09:22 PM The piece in Randolph is not the original, but dates from about 1912, according to Cray (p. 199-200), and was sung to "The Red River Valley." Randolph does not mention a tune nor a date other than 1934 when he collected it. Randolph-Legman also mention the tune Reuben, Reuben. Many pieces of sheet music from Harrigan's comic "plays" are in Levy and American Memory, including "Squatter Sovereignty" but not "The Tramp's Lament." Randolph says "According to a writer in the New York Times Book Review (July 7, 1940, p. 19), this piece 'was among Edward Harrigan's songs from the play Squatter Sovereignty produced in 1882'." There is another song of that name (1878) by another composer, but it is not the same. I have been unable so far to find the original. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: FULL BAGS (Jacob Allistree) From: Kaleea Date: 04 May 03 - 12:22 AM There were many "bawdy songs' written a few hundred years ago. Some of my fav "bawdy songs" known as 'catches,' or later 'rounds,' were written by the master composers--what some people would call the "classical" composers. An old boyfriend way back in college brought me a book of such, and most of them were written by Purcell, who wrote much beautiful sacred music & orchestral works. Here's a couple of my alltime favs: Full bags a "catch" by Colonel Jacob Allistree circa mid 1600's Full bags, a brisk bottle and a beautiful face Are the three greatest blessings poor mortals embrace. But alas we grow muckworms if bags do not fill, And a bonny gay Dame often ends in a pill. Then hey for brisk claret whose pleasures ne'er waste, By a bumper we're rich and by two we are chaste. and . . . Sir Walter enjoying his damsel a catch collected or written by Sir Henry Purcel circa 1680's Sir Walter enjoying his damsel one hight, He tickled and pleased her to so great a height, That she could not contain t'wards the end of the matter But in raputre cried out "Oh sweet Sir Walter, Oh sweet Sir Walter, Oh sweet Sir Walter, Oh sweet Sir, sweet Sir Walter. Oh swisser swasser, swisser, swasser, swisser swasser etc." Till her father, who came up the stair, did with Sir Walter and singe off his hair, crying "swisser swasser, swisser, swasser, take that as the cure" and he cut off Sir Walter. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: Charley Noble Date: 04 May 03 - 01:50 PM So that's why Sir Walter goes waltzing with bears? And possibly a typo in the above: "Sir Walter enjoying his damsel one HIGHT," Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bawdy Bar Room Song From: GUEST,Q Date: 04 May 03 - 02:32 PM Anyone interested in Purcell's secular songs should invest in at least one of the 3 cds (so far) with Barbara Bonney and the King's Consort on Hyperion. Purcell's "Orpheus Britannicus, A Collection of All the Choicest Songs for One, Two and Three Voices," I would like to find in reprint, if anyone knows of a reasonably priced one. |
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