Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


BS: Zane Grey & western stories...

Little Hawk 25 Apr 03 - 05:21 PM
Amos 25 Apr 03 - 05:29 PM
Little Hawk 25 Apr 03 - 05:38 PM
Kim C 25 Apr 03 - 05:44 PM
Wesley S 25 Apr 03 - 05:54 PM
katlaughing 25 Apr 03 - 06:30 PM
Ebbie 25 Apr 03 - 06:33 PM
Ely 25 Apr 03 - 07:24 PM
DonMeixner 25 Apr 03 - 07:29 PM
Amos 25 Apr 03 - 07:33 PM
Little Hawk 25 Apr 03 - 07:35 PM
DonMeixner 25 Apr 03 - 07:46 PM
Little Hawk 25 Apr 03 - 08:36 PM
Ebbie 25 Apr 03 - 09:32 PM
Stilly River Sage 25 Apr 03 - 10:04 PM
GUEST,Q 25 Apr 03 - 10:05 PM
GUEST,Q 25 Apr 03 - 10:49 PM
Kaleea 26 Apr 03 - 12:28 AM
Bardford 26 Apr 03 - 12:45 AM
katlaughing 26 Apr 03 - 01:29 AM
RangerSteve 26 Apr 03 - 06:03 AM
DonMeixner 26 Apr 03 - 08:58 AM
Giac 26 Apr 03 - 10:33 AM
GUEST 26 Apr 03 - 10:36 AM
katlaughing 26 Apr 03 - 11:33 AM
Murray MacLeod 26 Apr 03 - 01:44 PM
Amos 26 Apr 03 - 01:49 PM
DougR 26 Apr 03 - 02:38 PM
GUEST,Q 26 Apr 03 - 03:18 PM
Lin in Kansas 26 Apr 03 - 05:41 PM
katlaughing 26 Apr 03 - 06:53 PM
DonMeixner 26 Apr 03 - 06:59 PM
Little Hawk 26 Apr 03 - 10:53 PM
Cluin 27 Apr 03 - 02:34 AM
Lin in Kansas 27 Apr 03 - 02:49 AM
katlaughing 27 Apr 03 - 05:06 AM
Little Hawk 27 Apr 03 - 12:42 PM
GUEST,Q 27 Apr 03 - 06:34 PM
katlaughing 27 Apr 03 - 07:14 PM
GUEST,Q 27 Apr 03 - 08:12 PM
GUEST,Q 27 Apr 03 - 08:23 PM
Neighmond 27 Apr 03 - 11:44 PM
Little Hawk 27 Apr 03 - 11:56 PM
DonMeixner 28 Apr 03 - 12:51 AM
Little Hawk 28 Apr 03 - 01:08 AM
katlaughing 28 Apr 03 - 01:14 AM
GUEST,Q 28 Apr 03 - 01:50 PM
katlaughing 28 Apr 03 - 02:05 PM
Kim C 28 Apr 03 - 04:51 PM
jimmyt 28 Apr 03 - 08:58 PM
GUEST,Q 28 Apr 03 - 09:17 PM
Little Hawk 29 Apr 03 - 04:51 PM
Kim C 29 Apr 03 - 04:53 PM
Lin in Kansas 29 Apr 03 - 05:04 PM
DonMeixner 29 Apr 03 - 08:40 PM
GUEST,Q 29 Apr 03 - 10:28 PM
GUEST,Q 29 Apr 03 - 10:41 PM
DonMeixner 29 Apr 03 - 11:41 PM
GUEST,Q 30 Apr 03 - 12:28 AM
katlaughing 30 Apr 03 - 12:42 AM
DougR 30 Apr 03 - 01:42 AM
katlaughing 30 Apr 03 - 07:26 AM
DonMeixner 30 Apr 03 - 07:55 AM
GUEST,Dreaded Guest 30 Apr 03 - 07:06 PM
katlaughing 30 Apr 03 - 07:12 PM
The O'Meara 30 Apr 03 - 08:52 PM
Bearheart 30 Apr 03 - 08:58 PM
Cluin 01 May 03 - 02:00 AM
The O'Meara 01 May 03 - 09:09 PM
katlaughing 02 May 03 - 01:37 AM
Little Hawk 04 May 03 - 11:16 AM
GUEST,Q 04 May 03 - 06:06 PM
DonMeixner 04 May 03 - 10:16 PM

Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 05:21 PM

I've never been much of a reader of western stories, but I happened to come across a book with 3 short western novels in it, one by Zane Grey, and read it. I was quite surprised by the Zane Grey story "Tappan's Burro". It really is an exceptional story, in my opinion, and it does not fall into the sort of cliched western gunfighter mode I was expecting at all. It's very atmospheric, tragic, noble, very much about the internal struggles of a man, and its descriptions of the natural landscape are tremendously evocative. The burro herself is a pretty memorable character. It's a grand story.

Now I'm wondering if anyone else has read some stories by Zane Grey that they have a similarly high opinion of?

Previously to this, the only western tales I've been much impressed by were a couple by Larry McMurtry, although his endings are a real downer...he's such a pessimist.

- LH


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Amos
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 05:29 PM

Little Hawk:

Here in this country -- which you wouldn't know about -- we take our Westerns pretty seriously, and we have always considered Zane Grey's "Riders of the Purple Sage" to be just about the paradigm Western Tale.

Now you have a treat in store for you -- reading all the Zane Grey you've missed. I suggest you also start reading everything ever written by Louis L'Amour, with speciall attention to the tales of the Sackett brothers.

A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 05:38 PM

Yeah, I just read a Louis L'Amour one too in the same anthology, called "The Trail To Crazy Man". It's a classic adventure tale all around, more along the typical western storyline than the Zane Grey one. Pretty darn good entertainment. I bet there isn't one woman in 15,000 that ever reads these stories...

Kind of like model kits. Those are an almost exclusively male interest too.

- LH


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Kim C
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 05:44 PM

Tell Sackett ROCKS. I been in the Louis L'Amour book club for EIGHT YEARS and I still don't have all the books. I'm pretty close, though.

I read Riders of the Purple Sage a few years ago, and thought it was very, very good. It surprised me that he was a little harsh on the Mormons in the story, though.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Wesley S
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 05:54 PM

I was lucky. I had a good friend that read ALL of the westerns. Let he would let me know about the really good ones like "Welcome to Hard Times" "Little Big Man" "The Cowboy and the Cossaks" and Will Henry as an author. As Theodore Sturgons Law says - "75% of everything is crap". But the other 25% is worth checking out.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 06:30 PM

Pshaw, LH! You and your assumptions! Every woman in my family has read them and that's at least me, my three sisters and my mom and two neices, as well as at least one of my daughters! However, my ery favourite of L'Amour's is not even a Western; it's Walking Drum:-)

I have a lot of my granddad's old favourites Zane Grey, Ralph Connor, Will James (illustrated his own, too!), Wister's Virginian, and definitely Eugene Manlove Rhodes, as well as the author of the Hopalong Cassidy books, Clarence E. Mulford.

My dad said one of Zane Grey's The Lone Star Ranger took place about the time my great-granddad was in that area. He says it reads as though it was a "wild and wooly" time, but my great-granddad made the remark it wasn't really any more so than elsewhere at the time.

kat


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 06:33 PM

Aw, c'mon, Little Hawk. I'm female and I grew up reading all of the Zane Grey books, and so did my sisters and brothers.

By the way, one book I've never heard anyone remark upon was a non-fiction one about mountain lion hunting- was it in the Grand Canyon? It's been many years since I've seen a copy of the book but I still remember its atmosphere.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Ely
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 07:24 PM

My great-uncle was a Western historian (I believe he specialized in the Apaches), but he supplemented his income by writing Western novels under the pen name X.X. Jones ("Double Cross" Jones).

I haven't had time to read any of his novels yet. I've read a few of his nonfiction books and I'm afraid that, although the research seems sound, his writing style was much better suited to cheap fiction.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: DonMeixner
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 07:29 PM

I have admired Louis L'Amour for years. I strongly suggest you read his auto biography Education of a Wandering Man. I have so many favorite L'Amour stories its hard to limit them to a couple.

The Iron Marshall- Excellent western murder mystery

Bendigo Shafter- Just a big historical read, greatr fun.

Comstock Load- Good history and a fine education in geology

The Sackett stories- Rollicking is the best way to describe them

All his books are mental popcorn and I reread them quite often.

Don


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Amos
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 07:33 PM

Actually, L'Amour's classic was "Comstock Lode" about a vein of ore. There was a much less successful western called "Comstock Load" about a marshall who was caught -- by a mountain lion -- with his pants around his spurs while taking a dump behind a cactus , but I don't think it's in print anymore. Guy named Claude Derriere wrote it, I think....


A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 07:35 PM

Well, I shore am mighty pleased tuh hear thet thuh womenfolk read westerns too! Yuh shouldn't take nuthin' fer granted when it comes to thet sorta thing....I hev larned my lesson and will not make such all-encompassin' statements thet exclude the ladies from the readership of tales about scallywags, rustlers, and fast guns.

Now, what are we going to do about model kit builders?

- LH


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: DonMeixner
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 07:46 PM

Well George,

My daughter Rebekkah is a past master at kit bashing. You should see what she does with car boat and plane kits for use in the theatre props departments where she has workt.

Don


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 08:36 PM

Well, great! There's hope yet for scale modeling...

Mostly you get guys in their 40's, 50's, and 60's. Heavyset guys with glasses and big fat fingers, squinting painfully and desperately trying to handle tiny little parts and struggling with photoetched aftermarket add-ons.

And now, back to the westerns....

The main street of Deadman's Butte lay bare and silent before Frane's eyes, as he squinted against the unrelenting August sun. Not a horse nor a man was moving. A few idlers could be seen, not moving either, but scattered in little knots in front of the hotel and the Avalanche Saloon. They waited in unspeaking anticipation for the confrontation that all knew was now unavoidable.

Then Frane saw the Culligans step forth from the shadows. He knew these two all too well. Jed Culligan, dark and brutal in his features, renowned for his merciless speed and accuracy. Bolt Culligan, taller by at least an inch, broad across the shoulders, but almost catlike in his movements, as deadly as an angry rattler on a hot day.

The time of decision had come. Frane walked forward, step by measured step. The taut silence on Main Street seemed to grow and expand into an enveloping cloud, a harbinger of unavoidable fate, a portent of doom.

With every tread of his foot Frane was walking, he knew, into the jaws of an uncertain destiny that could only end in the demise of himself...or of the Culligans. But there was no time for regrets or second guessing now. The die was cast.

At last they stood within range.

"Is this whar yuh want it?" sneered Jed Culligan.

"If'n it is, we aims to oblige," added his brother, Bolt, running his tongue indelicately over his yellow teeth and thick, broken lips, as if licking his chops at the thought of destroying Frane once and for all, and leaving his bones for the buzzards.

Frane regarded them calmly. He felt strangely at peace for the first time in weeks.

"Make yer move!" he replied.

Jed Culligan's eyes narrowed, but he did not draw. A bead of saliva dropped off the end of Bolt Culligan's tongue. The air was electric. The fire hydrant was only inches away. Still Frane waited.

The play, when it came, was more sudden than a lightning bolt from a clear September sky. Jed's massive, dark-haired frame reared up before the hydrant with a speed that was both terrifying and unexpected, and Bolt was only a fraction of a second behind him...but to their disbelieving astonishment Frane was even faster!

Jed and Bolt had never seen a leg lift that fast before. They had not even given water by the time Frane irrigated that fire hydrant from foot to crown with a devastating stream of acrid yellow liquid that staked his claim to the Main Street of Deadman's Butte in terms no hound could deny!

"Yuh'd best leave now," growled Frane in the stunned silence that followed, and he pulled himself proudly up to his full height of 7 and a half inches.

The Culligans glowered back morosely, but they knew they'd been beat fair and square. Slowly they turned, tails between their legs, and slouched off to the shadows whence they had emerged.

Folks afterward said it was the first time in the history of Deadman's Butte that a dachshund had outdrawn a Black Lab and a Weimaraner.

- LH


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 09:32 PM

LOL, Little Hawk.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 10:04 PM

Other western authors you might enjoy, still living, are Elmer Kelton (a fairly easy read, traditional westerns for thinking folks), Larry McMurtry (more along the lines of westers-as-literature), and Cormac McCarthy (his will blow you away. Once you read McCarthy's Blood Meridian you'll never forget it). Ron Hansen has also written a couple that would classify, in a literary way, as westerns. His The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford is a real pleasure to read.

SRS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 10:05 PM

My my reckoning, Zane Gray wrote 72 novels. Most were western, a couple on baseball. The first, Betty Zane, in 1903. Fifty-seven were published before his death in 1939, and fifteen postumously from manuscripts (one of these, "Reef Girl," was not a western). Four more books were in the "King of the Royal Mounted" set. He wrote about ten non-fiction books on fishing (some of these are also considered classic). With H. C. Wetmore, he wrote a biography of Buffalo Bill ("Last of the Great Scouts"). He also wrote the story of Boulder Dam.

Lots of reading ahead of you.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 10:49 PM

One that impressed me was "The Shepherd of the Guadaloupe." Many worth reading.
Zane Grey was 40 when he wrote "Riders of the Purple Sage" in 1912- his eighth novel. Born in 1872, he knew some of the old timers who were still around in the 1890s-1910s period. He had a good feel for the early west.
Most of L'Amour is worth reading. He did quite a lot of research for his books and it shows.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Kaleea
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 12:28 AM

I only read a couple of Mr. Gray's books--but I visited the site of his shack in Arizona, in the formerly-known-as-forrest, before the forrest burned a few weeks later. Beautiful & amazing country, in the shadow of "the rim."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Bardford
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 12:45 AM

I devoured Louis Lamour books when I was kid. Come summertime, if I'm in a used booksore I'll pick up a few for a quick read. He researched well, his male protaganists were generally well-read, thoughtful men of action, and the womenfolk had moxie.

There was one story, I'm pretty certain it was L'amour's, about a woman living out there on the prairie, either alone, or in a bad relationship. She would tie her poems to tumbleweeds and let them drift. What an evocative image.

And hey, Kat re: Ralph Connor - before he became a big author, he was a Presbyterian preacher in Banff and Canmore (Alberta) in the 1890's. Family anecdote had him hitching my greatgrandparents, but recent unearthed documents disproved that theory.

Another thing about Louis L'amour - hasn't he written about as many books after his death as before? Seems there's another new one on the shelf every few months.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 01:29 AM

His family seems to have scads of them, Bardford! I think I remember reading somewhere that they actually had quite a supply.

No way on Ralph Connor!! Kewl story even if it did prove to be a, well...a story.:-) "Recent research?" Hmmmm...gots me ta' thinkin'!:-)

BTW, got my mail, today!! THANK YOU!! More in a PM, tomorrow!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: RangerSteve
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 06:03 AM

If anyone is interested, Grey's home is open to the public. It's in Narrowsburg NY, on the Delaware River, a little north of where NY, PA, and NJ meet. I haven't been there yet, so I can't review it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: DonMeixner
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 08:58 AM

Bradford,

That is the book "Conagher", made into an excellent movie with Katherine Ross and Sam Elliot. They are a production team aswell as a married team who seem to revel in doing L'Amour stories and doing them well. Elliot played "Tell Sackett" in the "Sacketts" movie with Tom Selleck as "Orrin" Jeff Osterhage as "Tyrell" and the late Ben Johnson as "Cap Rountree".

There is a fight seen in a saloon that was filmed with available light that is a brilliant piece of set work. It rivals the closing scene to "The Searchers".

The book is an excellent read, the movie is a great watch.

Don


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Giac
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 10:33 AM

It's been 45 years, at least, since I read Zane Grey. Read most of them between 10-15 years of age, when my best friend got a membership in a Zane Grey book club. She read them as soon as they arrived, then loaned them to me. I can still visualize all those books lined up on her bookshelves. What a treasure!

Uh, Amos, wasn't Claude Derriere also the author of Incident at Red Butts?

~;o) Mary


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 10:36 AM

I enjoyed reading a series of books about a man called Edge, by George C. Gilman. The main character is a man who fought in the Union Army during the Civil War.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 11:33 AM

No, Giac, that was by I.P. Freely


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 01:44 PM

I read "Riders of the Purple Sage" when I was 15, and that was, let me see, oh about forty years ago.

It struck me as being a powerful and atmospheric novel, the hero (was he called Lassiter?)was the archetypal western hero. It also inculcated some pretty powerful prejudices against Mormonism. I was never able to watch the Osmonds subsequently without being deeply suspicious.

I also vividly remember one passage where Lassiter unbuttons the shirt of his would be killer after wounding "him", only to discover that the assailant is actually a beautiful girl....   

Murray


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Amos
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 01:49 PM

Oh,m the accidental discovery of boobs!! Wow!! Resonance par excellence!! :>))

A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: DougR
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 02:38 PM

Yes, kaeela, we were all saddened when the Zae Grey cabin on the Mogollion Rim burned to the ground several years ago. He wrote many of his successful novels there, and he also had a cabin on Oak Creek near Sedona, Arizona. One novel he wrote while in residence there was "The Call of the Canyon."

I like L'Amour a lot too.

I was much impressed with Will James' novels, "Smoky," "Sand" and "The Lone Cowboy."

I have a fair collection of books devoted to the West, fiction and non-fiction. I bought a book titled, "Hopalong Cassidy" by Clarence E. Mulford (because "Hoppy" was my boyhood hero in "B" western films)in a super used book store in Washington, D. C. when I lived there thirty years ago. The book could not find a publisher today. It is fill with racial slurs (aimed primarily at Mexicans) which was rather common in those days I suppose. It was published in 1910.

For a glimpse of early Arizona life (1880's) I would recommend Martha Summerhayes book, "Vanished Arizona." It is an excellent of frontier life through the eyes of a young woman who married a young second Lt. fresh out of West Point who was stationed to Arizona during most of the turbulent Indian years.

L. H.: thanks for starting this thread! A welcome change from politics.

DougR

DougR


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 03:18 PM

Mention of Connor brings to mind "The Preacher of Cedar Mountain," by Ernest Thompson Seton. I also remember "The Sky Pilot."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 05:41 PM

Little Hawk--

I cannot let your slur about model building go by in silence, sir! At one time, when I was learning to fly little airplanes, I built scale models of nearly every World War I and World War II taildragger ever built, and hung them proudly from my ceiling. In an eerie coincidence, I built a balsa-wood model of an Aeronca Chief, lovingly painting it blue and white, only a month or so before I bought a blue and white Chief (full scale) to fly. I owned The Beast for several years and had great fun with her. I'll admit, though, that having the real thing put the kibosh on model building. I don't think I've done one since.

And if you were to only read ONE Western novel, make it Clair Huffaker's The Cowboy and the Cossack, not your "standard" Western novel, either. Huffaker wrote some very good books, some of which were ruined as movies (e.g. "Flaming Arrow" (I think was the name) starring a young Elvis Presley as a Native American.)

Lin


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 06:53 PM

I second that about Huffaker's book! Excellent!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: DonMeixner
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 06:59 PM

Lin,

Totally off topic. I have a friend who owns seven aircraft and recently built a Lancair executive four place aircraft. He owns two Aeroncas, A Champ and a Chief, The Champ is the first and only small [plane I have ever been aboard and flown in. Its fusilage number # 123. That old and still flying.

Don


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 10:53 PM

"The Cowboy and the Cossack"...right. Can't forget a title like that. I'll look for it.

Glad you're enjoying the thread, Doug. It is a welcome change of subject indeed. Whaddya think of my dachshund epic? Pretty stirring stuff, eh?

- LH


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Cluin
Date: 27 Apr 03 - 02:34 AM

Zane Grey and Louis L'Amour are pretty good, but my favourite western book is still Jack Schaefer's Shane. We read that one in school, Grade 5 or 6. Then we watched the movie and I remember thinking it was nice how the movie stuck pretty closely to the book. I still think it's one of the most realistic westerns I've read.

Or maybe the book was written from the screenplay?

Anyway, that Max Brand sure wrote some crappy ones. On road trips with my buddy, we listen to books on tape to kill the road hours and the worst one (next to "Learn Klingon with Michael Dorn") was a Max Brand one read by Barry Corbin. We laughed all the way to Thunder Bay.

"Who but a Harrigan and a MacTee...."

The weirdest ones to listen to on the highway are any of Anne Rice's vampire books(another shitty writer; the woman badly needs an editor with a firm hand... either that, or a paper shredder).

But there's a good scene for another Bruce MacDonald Canadian road movie:

Two singer/guitar players heading up Highway 129, north into the Big Nothing, planning on making their way to Timmins for a gig that night at Fionn MacCool's, listening to an Anne Rice book on cassette, read by Christopher Walken. They pick up a grizzled old hitchhiker (played by Kris Kristofferson) who turns out to be St. Christopher, who is quite depressed over losing his sainthood by Vatican decree. He is also dying for a turkey sub from Mr. Submarine and a vanilla capaccino from Tim Hortons. But the best they can offer him is a crunchy peanut butter sandwich, ignorant of the Saint's nut allergy......


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 27 Apr 03 - 02:49 AM

Kat, another Huffaker book that's really good, despite the title, is Nobody Loves a Drunken Indian. I think they made that one into a movie, too, but a pretty good one. I believe it had Anthony Quinn in the starring role as Flapping Eagle. Hawk, you'll have to hit the used bookstores for Cowboy/Cossack as it's been out of print for some years.

Cluin, I think the book Shane came before the movie. And Max Brand actually did write a couple of good ones. Check out The Man on the Blue--If I remember correctly, it was pretty decent.

Don, my flight instructor and I used to argue about which was the "better" plane, the Chief or the Champ. Since he took me flying in his Champ, I didn't argue too loud. Both are great little airplanes! Don't know what year his Champ was, but my Beast was a 1946 (a year older than I am! ye gods!), which let me fly into the antique airplane meetings without anyone giving me funny looks (except about my landings!).

Most fun flight I ever had was in a kit-built Christen Eagle two-seater. Its owner and I flew every which way but right side up for nigh onto an hour, and he showed me how to do rolls... I bet there are still finger dents in the underside of his instrument panel! Too much fun. Wish my health was still good enough to do that stuff...

Lin


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Apr 03 - 05:06 AM

Thanks, Lin! Holy cow, his stuff is scarce! I just had a look at www.abebooks.com and there are some pricey editions of Nobody loves a drunken Indian aka Flap, according to the booksellers' listings.

LH, you cna also find copies of the Cowboy and the Cossack at that website.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Apr 03 - 12:42 PM

Thanks, Kat. I'm gonna hit the used bookstores first, and we'll see what turns up.

- LH


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 27 Apr 03 - 06:34 PM

What, no one has mentioned "Lin McLean" or "The Virginian," the Owen Wister classics?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Apr 03 - 07:14 PM

Smile when you say that! I mentioned Wister, way up thar, pahdnuh>;-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 27 Apr 03 - 08:12 PM

Oh, well. At least I mentioned "Lin McLean" first.
I guess everyone has read "A Texas Cowboy, or Fifteen Years on the Hurricane Deck of a Spanish Pony," published by Charles A. Siringo in 1885. Partly "autobiographical," it has stories about events that he had heard about, and incorporated into his own life. As such, it can be considered the first cowboy western.
Written when he was not quite 30, he calls himself "an old stove up cow puncher who has spent nearly a lifetime on the great western cattle ranges."
A sketch of Siringo in the first edition of 1885 shows him leaning on a stump, in woolly chaps, a Bowie knife on his belt and a rifle in hand, wearing suit coat, vest and tie, and an Indian tipi in the background. He is shown in a frontispiece, mounted, with Bowie and pistol on a cartridge belt, similarly attired. Another frontispiece illustration shows him in the foreground, mounted, with the chuckwagon and camp cook, two punchers roping a longhorn, and a group in the background moving a herd.
In spite of not being wholly autobiographical, the story is true to life. The best edition for not too much money is the attractive 1950 production by William Sloane Assoc., NY, with illustrations by Tom Lea, an introduction by J. Frank Dobie, and facsimiles of the frontispieces from the first edition.

The Dobie Introduction talks about other early western writers, including Eugene Manlove Rhodes, mentioned above. "While riding on a horse-buying expedition, he was arrested by vigilantes for a horsethief and taken to a cow camp. .... "A well-educated man among the vigilantes took the lead in cross-examining him.
"Where were you in 1881?," he asked.
"In Canada."
"Where were you in 1880?"
"In Montana."
"Well, where were you in 1879?"
"In Oxford University."
Undoubtedly the dialogue is partly invented, but the story is true.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 27 Apr 03 - 08:23 PM

Forgot to mention, Martha Hayes "Vanished Arizona" is on the web, complete, Gutenberg.
If you like a bit of cattle history, also on the Net is "Cattle Trade in the West and Southwest," by Joseph G. McCoy, 1874: Cattle Trade


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Neighmond
Date: 27 Apr 03 - 11:44 PM

May I suggest "Lonesome Gods" by L'Amour?

It is a powerful piece of literature, not so shoot 'em up as some, but still plenty filled with action and suspence.

Chaz


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Apr 03 - 11:56 PM

Well, I picked up a Sackett tale by L'Amour today at the used bookstore: "The Sackett Brand" Read it this afternoon...

Pretty rousing stuff, I must say. You don't see family solidarity like that everywhere, that's for sure.

It's given me some good ideas for Frane's next adventure epic.

- LH


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: DonMeixner
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 12:51 AM

LH

I suggest Lando, Sacketts Land, Galloway, The Skyliners and Sackett, The Day Breakers as he best of the Sackett stories. But since they are all good read any of them.   Fair Blows the Wind was favorite non Sackett story of mine for years.

Don


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 01:08 AM

Okay, thanks!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 01:14 AM

Great thread!

Guest,Q, thanks for the info...I have not read that one. Also, that's a great story about Rhodes! I'll have to pass that one on to my dad. He'll love it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 01:50 PM

Now from the Indians point of view...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 02:05 PM

I can't remember if it goes back that far, but Tom Shakespeare's book Sky People come to mind. Tom was an Arapahoe. Rog has almost worn out his copy.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Kim C
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 04:51 PM

Heehee! Mental Popcorn! I like that.

I must say that Lonesome Dove is my favorite Western EVER. (don't bother with the sequels)

Giac! How you doin?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: jimmyt
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 08:58 PM

Little Hawk, Zane Grey is from my home town, Zanesville, Ohio in southeastern Ohio, a distant relative of Ebineezer Zane, the founder of the city and one of the early Ohio Pioneers. He was a dentist and avid fisherman, which I also share in these avocations. His novel, Spirit of the Border was the first historical novel I ever read and it is set in the surrounding area of southeastern Ohio and West Virginia, which made the reading quite interesting to me when I read it at age 14. His birthplace and a museum are in the Zanesville, Ohio area.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 28 Apr 03 - 09:17 PM

Zane Grey's first novel, "Betty Zane" (1903), was a fictionalized historical biography of his great grandmother, partly based on journals of his great grandfather. The Spirit of the Border (1906), his second book, in part also contained fictionalized history of his family. His next book, the "Last of the Plainsmen (1908) began to set the stage for his western novels. "The Last Trail" and the "Heritage of the Desert" followed in 1909-1910.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 04:51 PM

Yeah. I figure I'll try out "Riders of the Purple Sage" if I can find it somewhere.

Have read "Lonesome Dove". It's a superb book, but GOD is it depressing! I can do without that degree of depression.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Kim C
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 04:53 PM

Well, LH, it's like my friend Howard says, the Old West WAS depressing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 05:04 PM

Little Hawk, "Riders of the Purple Sage" is in any self-respecting library. And when you check it out, get the sequel too--I believe the title is "The Rainbow Trail" (someone please correct me if I'm wrong).

Amazon.com has 288 listings for Zane Grey, and many of them have a "sample" of the book; 25 or so pages you can read to see if you like it. Just a thought...

And thanks for sending me back to my ancient paperback Westerns, it's been a while since I read them.

Lin


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: DonMeixner
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 08:40 PM

Riders of the Purple Sage was recently filmed by TNT for show on television. It starred Ed Harris and Amy Madigan and was just exceptional. I believe it is available on tape or DVD.

Don


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 10:28 PM

Univ. Penn. has a Gutenberg text of "Riders of the Purple Sage" on line: Riders of the Purple Sage
But get the book from the library or used book store. So many editions in both hardback and paperback were issued that it is cheap.
Books are much better in the hand than on the computer.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 10:41 PM

Other Zane Grey books also on line are Desert Gold, Rainbow Trail, Last of the Plainsmen, The UP Trail, The Young Forester, The Redheaded Outfield and other Baseball Stories.
All of these may be found in cheap used editions except the baseball stories, which are hard to find.
Just type in "Zane Grey, Gutenberg" into Google, and the websites will come up.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: DonMeixner
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 11:41 PM

Anyone besides me recall watching The Zane Grey Theater on television in the mid to late 50's? Kind of like Death Valley Days as I recall.
An anthology show of western stories. I don't know if it had much to do with Zane Grey beyond the title. I do recall looking forward to watching it tho.

Don


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 12:28 AM

Anyone know where the journals of Zane Grey's great-grandfather are? Have they been published?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 12:42 AM

I have no idea how accurate this is, but there is interesting info on Ebenezer Zane at this website, which claims there are no "Zane papers:" clickety. I'd be interested in knowing otherwise.

Thanks,

kat (just found my copy of Betty Zane!):-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: DougR
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 01:42 AM

I remember "Zane Grey Theater," Don. Wasn't Dick Powell host of that show?

DougR


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 07:26 AM

My apologies. I see in the Prologue of Betty Zane that Zane Grey says he wrote her story using the "notebooks" of his great-grandfather, Ebenezer Zane, so that source I found on the web which said there are no papers must be wrong.

Sorry,

kat


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: DonMeixner
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 07:55 AM

Doug,

He sure was.

Don


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: GUEST,Dreaded Guest
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 07:06 PM

Unless I'm mistaken, this is the best western story I ever came across. Read it years ago, though. But I believe this is the one...the Amazon description sounds right. Excellent piece of work.

The Canyon by Schaefer

I recall Little Big Man being good, too. The hundred or so pages about Custer's defeat were as good as any 'historical fiction' as I've ever come across as far as mesmerizing with words. Thomas Berger wrote that.

J. Frank Dobie was a good writer. More of a historian. 'Yaqui gold...etc' is a good book. The Longhorns. Yeah...Dobie for the 'real life' stuff.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 07:12 PM

Another one I'd forgotten was Rex Beach.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: The O'Meara
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 08:52 PM

Before he switched to cop stories, Elmore Leonard wrote a few excellent western novels. None of them are cliched, and one in particular told the story of a fairly minor scrape, contrasted against what the sensationalist, exaggerated newspapers and dime novels of the time wrote. Good stuff.(I guess things don't change much.)
    My mother taught me to read when I was three. (Not bragging - it screwed me up horribly when I hit school.) I was four when I snuck into the attic and found 4 dusty books by Zane Grey, and 4 by Rudyard KIpling. I stumbled through them all. That set a standard that I still expect writers meet, and hooked me on western novels. Louis L'Amours' Sackett stories are pretty good, but some of his later stuff is just literary travesty. Especially the stories he wrote after he died. (Not that unusual. Elvis is still releasing new songs.)

O'Meara


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Bearheart
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 08:58 PM

I read my first Zane Grey novel at age 12. My aunt Betty had a collection of about 10 of them which I inherited. Read every one I could get my hands on (from the local library) during my teen years and still find myself going back to them occasionally when I want to really get lost. Though some of his books can be a bit bigoted (I have read one or two which really annoyed me!), he often expressed an opposite opinion in another book (ie some of the Mormon cowboys in his other books --besides ROTPS--- are really exceptional people.) Likewise he was one to express a lot of respect for native people at a time when that was not done. It's usful to read his books with an eye to the times in which they were written and published. Then you can see how timeless they are. He could be very thoughtful and philosophical at times. (see Man of the Forest for instance.)Also he clearly loved Nature with a passion and could describe the places that he loved eloquently and with passion-- some times for whole pages. He often used his books to advocate for saving the wild places.
Likewise he could write some truly thrilling love scenes!(read with a 15 year old's eyes and you'll see what I mean!)Interestingly he was at the mercy to some extent of his publishers, who occasionally forced him to change his books. Though I haven't had time to check them out I know that some of the manuscripts are being reissued in the original version, and they are even more radical in theme and execution and more interesting (supposedly) than the originals.

Great thread!

Bekki


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Cluin
Date: 01 May 03 - 02:00 AM

Panama Red, Panama Red,
He'll steal your woman; then he'll rob your head
Panama Red, Panama Red,
On his white horse, Mescalito, he'll come breezin' into town
Bet your woman's up in bed with old...
Panama Red!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: The O'Meara
Date: 01 May 03 - 09:09 PM

He strode inter Brannigan's wavin' a gun
And swearin, declarin' red rivers 'ud run
Down Alkalai valley, and mountains o' gore
Would wash sudden death 'cross the sagebrushy floor

Then he shot a big hole inter Brannigans door!
- Bret Harte

Actually the whole poem's pretty funny, Kinda like some of Robert Services' stuff.

I reckon.

O'Meara


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 May 03 - 01:37 AM

Well, if ya want to get into some poetry, try that of Badger Clark. We were raised on him in almost equal parts with Service, Kipling and others. Here's just the end of his Ridin':

When my earthly trail is ended
    And my final bacon curled
And the last great roundup's finished
    At the Home Ranch of the world
I don't want no harps nor haloes,
    Robes nor other dressed up things -
Let me ride the starry ranges
    On a pinto hawse with wings!


He also wrote Spanish is a lovin' tongue and, this is probably his other most well known piece, A Cowboy's Prayer (Written for Mother):

Oh Lord, I've never lived where churches grow.
            I loved creation better as it stood
       That day You finished it so long ago
            And looked upon Your work and called it good.
       I know that others find You in the light
            That's sifted down through tinted window panes,
       And yet I seem to feel You near tonight
            In this dim, quiet starlight on the plains.

       I thank You, Lord, that I am placed so well,
            That You have made my freedom so complete;
       That I'm no slave of whistle, clock or bell,
            Nor weak-eyed prisoner of wall and street,
       Just let me live my life as I've begun
            And give me work that's open to the sky;
       Make me a pardner of the wind and sun,
            And I won't ask a life that's soft or high.

       Let me be easy on the man that's down;
            Let me be square and generous with all.
       I'm careless sometimes, Lord, when I'm in town,
            But never let 'em say I'm mean or small!
       Make me as big and open as the plains,
            As honest as the hawse between my knees,
       Clean as the wind that blows behind the rains,
            Free as the hawk that circles down the breeze!

       Forgive me, Lord, if sometimes I forget.
            You know about the reasons that are hid.
       You understand the things that gall and fret;
            You know me better than my mother did.
       Just keep an eye on all that's done and said
            And right me, sometimes, when I turn aside,
       And guide me down the long, dim trail ahead
            That stretches upward toward the Great Divide.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 May 03 - 11:16 AM

Well, I went to the library and got a book there...Zane Grey's "The Border Legion", and read it yesterday.

Wow! What a great story. The thing I like about Zane Grey is that his stories are morality plays in a grand setting, examining the tremendous potential for good and evil in human beings, and the struggle to lose or redeem one's soul. What could really matter more?

Beats me how I could have lived for 50 years before discovering the joys of western fiction...

It's a shame that people tend to be so cynical these days, and have so little faith in the greater purposes of life. I think it's the result of mass consumerism. People have really lost their sense of the sacred...

"For the love of a lousy buck I've watched them die" - Bob Dylan

Whether it's for gold, oil, sex or the dollar...it's in blind pursuit of those that men vainly lose their lives, and at the end of it all they die wasted and empty, but someone may still mourn for them...because of the goodness they might have done.

- LH


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 04 May 03 - 06:06 PM

A big list of books here. The descriptions may lead you to some western books you might not otherwise know about. Also a source of prices on older editions for the collector. Western Books


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Zane Grey & western stories...
From: DonMeixner
Date: 04 May 03 - 10:16 PM

Jeepers LH,

Even after 50 there is room for change, growth, and renewal. And a little bit of western fiction too. Glad you are enjoying it.

Don


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate


 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 2 June 2:23 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.