BS: Possible Junk Food Tax

Subject: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: Kim C
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 11:25 AM

All right y'all, I'm really peeved about this.

This morning on Good Morning America, or whatever show I was watching (they're all alike and I can't tell them apart) there was an assemblyman from New York, and a public health professional, debating about a possible TAX on JUNK FOOD, the idea being that it would curb the growing problem of obesity in the US.

Maybe yes, maybe no. How many of you who used to smoke, quit just because it got too expensive? I'm willing to wager that most of you who quit did so mainly because you wanted to preserve your health.

I do not want anyone toying with my food. That's a little too personal for me. I think I know enough to make wise choices about what I eat. I'm in good shape, and I eat healthy 90% of the time. The other 10% I devote to cheeseburgers, ice cream, cheesecake, beer, and chocolates of all sorts (not all at once, though!). And I am none the worse from it. Neither is Mister, who at 47, weighs only slightly more than he did in high school.

I'm not convinced the US is the only country with obesity concerns. Recently I picked up a German magazine with the cover story, "What's making you fat?" There was a HUGE article - actually a series of articles - about good fat, bad fat, exercise, and the like.

The health professional on the morning show said, and I agree, that there are no good or bad foods, only good or bad eating habits. Not only that, most of us don't have to go out and hoe potatoes for a living - we pad our seats at desk jobs, and have so little time to cook and eat that we grab whatever's handy. Not only that, but healthy food can be expensive, depending on where you live.

I think it would be a far better idea to make sure that kids get the proper nutritional information in school, than to tax Twinkies.

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 11:36 AM

Like the kids will pay any attention to advice??? Taxing the Twinkies might work however. I think is probably quite a good idea. Especially if the revenue is used in health provision.
BUT - if the idea is to sell less Twinkies (if.....) then surely it will be quashed by the Twinkie-purveyor-fat-cats. UNLESS they don't actually expect to sell less Twinkies & are just after the money........

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: Peg
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 12:07 PM

The worst aspect of this problem is that we are raising a generation of fat kids who will have serious health problems. Apparently education (or lack thereof) has not worked. It is also true that a lot of schools have eliminated physical education from their curriculum. Some schools have soda and snack vending machines right in the building. No kids walk to school anymore because apparently no one thinks it's "safe." This is true in exclusive, wealthy, gentrified neighborhoods as well; the traffic bottleneck in the afternoon is crazy. I think this explains why school starts obscenely early (7 am) and ends at a useless and inconvenient time (2 pm) instead of the more reasonable 8:30 am to 3:30 pm it was when I was in school; to cut down on traffic.

If a tax on junk food will have an effect, I say it's a good idea. But for many people price is no object. There are plenty of people who can ill afford their bad habits like cigarettes, booze, etc. but that doesn't stop anyone. Instead of taxing the foods themselves, what about taxing the individuals who have grown fat because of their bad eating and poor exercise habits? Raise their insurance premiums, etc. I don't suppose that would be popular either...

I was out walking yesterday and saw an unusually high (I thought) number of VERY obese people. Supposedly in the Northeast we have a smaller percentage of obese folk (although Maine now is facing a big problem with it). Some of them were smoking cigarettes as they labored their way down the street...It was kind of horrifying.

There are plenty of ways to commit chronic suicide...the human body was made to hunt or forage for its own food, and to move constantly when not at rest...not sit in a chair or car and eat food made up of chemicals. The unnatural diseases most people die from (heart disease, cancer etc.) are connected to the huge separation we have forged between how humans should live and how we do live. Of course, early man had a much shorter life expectancy...but was that because of saber tooth tigers and exposure to the elements? or living amid harmful chemicals and eating food unfit for laboratory rats?

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: Kim C
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 12:31 PM

Peg, I think some people already pay more for insurance if they're overweight. I don't know.

My question is, though, why should I have to pay a higher tax on my Reese's cups in order to fund the consequences of someone else's bad habits and excesses? That doesn't seem fair to me.

Parents always have the choice NOT to buy junk at the grocery.

When I was in school, though, we didn't have vending machines, and technically we were not allowed to bring soda in our lunches, or eat candy bars between classes. Of course, people did, and rarely got in trouble. But just shortly after I left high school in 1985, the vending machines came in.

One of the questions posed this morning was, who will decide what makes a food subject to taxation? The point was made that orange juice is high in sugar, and avocados are high in fat, but both are considered "healthy" foods.

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: jeffp
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 01:02 PM

Relax, Kim. A New York State Assemblyman proposed a one per-cent tax on junk foods. It is not expected to fly anywhere, much less down to Tennessee. Don't Worry, you won't have to pay an extra penny on your Reese's Cups.

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: Kim C
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 01:06 PM

You're probably right, Jeff, that it won't fly, just like the lawsuits against McDonald's. It's just a little flabbergasting that anyone would even contemplate the idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: MMario
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 01:08 PM

insurance rates ARE higher for smokers, overweight, etc...

If it were a "luxery tax" (which is essentially what is being proposed) would you be as upset?

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 03:57 PM

An excellent idea, and certainly if there were a national tax on junk foods, the revenues could be used to help us get our health care system out of the sewer too.

Or we can keep eating, driving, and voting Republican. I'm sure that will solve everything.

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 04:28 PM

I take the position that WHENEVER someone proposes using taxes to accomplish some alleged good, the only purpose is to squeeze out more taxes, which can then be used to try to bribe the electorate.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 04:28 PM

But isn't one of the problems the fact that buying healthy food to eat is more expensive than buying junky sugar and carbohydrate rich foods?

I've been checking in my local grocery store, and to buy a weeks worth of healthy, organic, sugar free, low fat, low carb, fibre rich and sensible foodstuffs, would cost me almost £40 more than if I bought enough bread, cakes, pasta, fizzy pop, pies, canned veggies and crisps to last the same amount of time.

My average food bill is about £70, to substitute the highly processed junk stuff for natural and healthy stuff pushes the price up to £85-£90. To go the whole way and buy only organic produce (allegedly much better for me and a whole lot tastier) would send it over the £100 mark.

Tax junk food? OK, maybe, but with it, bring down or abolish the tax on organic stuff, natural produce and make it worth the local farmer's while to actually grow the food we should be eating.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 04:35 PM

Excellent point, LtS!!

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: NicoleC
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 06:40 PM

No, it's not more expensive to buy healthy food. It's more expensive to buy other processed junk that people think of as "healthy" because it's got some trendy label. About the cheapest thing you can eat is beans and rice with a tall glass of water, and it's tons healthier than almost anything that labels itself "healthy" in the grocery store.

The problem with taxing so-called unhealthy food is that most consumers don't have a clue that that "low fat" pizza they are eating is junk -- junk with less fat, but still junk.

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 08:13 PM

Nicole, I don't buy labels and I can't eat beans. The good stuff I can eat, from the health food store, i.e. organic fruits and veggies, non-wheat bread, etc. IS more expensive then regular groceries. Our budget isn't really geared up for it, but we manage because we figure it's worth the extra we pay because, obstensibly, it keeps us healthier. Even then I am not able to do it as much and as often as I'l like.

I agree with you that most people don't have a clue. I don't think they ever read the labels or question much of what they put in their mouths.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 08:33 PM

Much junk food is taxed in many states in the sense that it is subject to sales taxes that regular foodstuffs aren't. Where I live, if I buy a loaf of bread and a Reese's cup there's no sales tax on the bread but 7.5% on the Reese's cup.

(However, if I buy a "take-home pack" of 12 Reese's cups they're not taxable. Same with Twinkies. One twinkie, taxable. Box of Twinkies, nontaxable. Go figure.)

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: Rapparee
Date: 12 Jun 03 - 09:09 PM

Silly statement to get attention. It won't fly. For example, I could buy potatoes (healthy!) and some cooking oil (a healthy kind!) and make my own potato chips or french fries. Are the Junk Food Agents going to peek through my window or break down my door to see what I do with the food I buy?

Is this chap up for re-election soon, by any chance?

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 13 Jun 03 - 12:56 AM

Don't take much money to garden or home bake.

Healthy, clean.... and in the second year the seeds are free.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Far as I can see...its all a matter of priorities. Victum-hood fits some like an favorite un-washed tenni-sneaker....comfortable for the wearer but offensive to the sight, smell, and sounds of others.

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: Sooz
Date: 13 Jun 03 - 12:15 PM

I think that there's no such thing as a junk food but there is such a thing as a junk diet. We should all eat something "less sensible" now and again - it's good for us in other ways. It is only a problem when it excludes the fruit, veg, whole grains etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: Kim C
Date: 13 Jun 03 - 12:30 PM

I don't believe in a luxury tax on principle anyway, because you've already paid a state sales tax (usually), so why pay an additional tax? I don't believe in estate taxes either, for the same reason.

Depending on where you live, produce can be more expensive; and I can tell you first-hand that buying whole foods IS more expensive than buying mac and cheese in a box. However - in theory it should save you money in the long run by keeping you away from the doctor's office.

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jun 03 - 04:51 PM

If you buy PROCESSED whole foods, they are more expensive. The cost of UNPROCESSED whole foods, however, is much cheaper than buying megacorporate processed foods.

The savings in cost is in the amount of food preparation time one is willing to spend at home, rather than paying agribusiness and food processing megacorps to do the job for you.

It is not difficult, or even impossible, to shop for whole and organic foods wisely, and still save money over what you would spend with a conventional shopping budget. But in order to do it, you can't be lazy. You have to be willing to invest in enough of a culinary self-education to know how to do it to eat well. That includes shopping in more places than just the local food superwarehouse. It means buying and eating in season and locally grown produce from places like the farmers markets and roadside stands, and learning how to spend a minimum amount of prep time on meals, by doing certain routine chores in advance (like routinely making stock, salad dressings, chopping your veggies for the week, that sort of thing).

People make it sound as if there is either some great mystery to eating healthy, or some great conspiracy by the Evil Organic Food Freak Monopoly, upon whom many are willing to project sole responsibility for making themselves feel bad/guilty about their eating habits.

The reasons why processed whole foods are more expensive than processed corporate food is because it costs more to produce one than the other. But that is because the latter gets HUGE HUGE HUGE government subsidies to produce their corporate corn, cattle, and milk. A lot of which ends up being dumped, never used, eaten by rats, or fed to the third world (if they are lucky).

Now, taxes might seem like the bad boy in this conversation, but that ain't the real problem. The real problem is the way agribusiness and food megacorps are subsidized by our tax dollars, to make sure you have 55 kinds of sugar cereals that come in cutsie colors and shapes and all taste the same, on your food warehouse shelves.

Keeping eating at the drive up and voting Republican, folks. I'm sure it will only help things get better.

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jun 03 - 12:32 AM

See you in a shout...time has run out....there is fresh meter down the street that don't measure peter or repeat.

Good-Bye

Subject: RE: BS: Possible Junk Food Tax
From: lardingo
Date: 14 Jun 03 - 06:28 PM

It makes more sense to me to tax the people who are adversely afected by the junk food. My high metabolic rate, combined with my skinny parentage allow me to eat as much junk as I wish. Therefore, I personally would not be effected by a tax on obese people.

Another idea would be to have people weigh in each time they entered a fast food restaurant. If they exceeded the weight limitation, they would only be allowed to order from the low-cal menu.

We could also start checking ID's when a consumer attempts to buy a high fat snack. In this way, we would restrict children from buying these dangerous products.

By combining the recent tobacco settlements with restrictions such as these, we would soon be able to boast of a smoke-free, obese-free country. Our beloved politicians would then be free to further fine-tune our lives, shaping them and molding them ever closer to perfection.