Obit: Leon Uris - RIP

Subject: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: Fiolar
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 06:07 AM

The death has been announced of one of my favourite authors. Leon Uris born in August 1924 has gone to the great publishing house in the sky. One of his early novels "Battle Cry" were based on his experiences as a marine in WW2. Later works include "Exodus"; "The Angry Hills" and "Trinity" among many others. Many of his books were made into marvellous films. Who can forget "Exodus" with its great thundering theme tune?
Semper Fi.

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: SINSULL
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 06:48 AM

I remember trying to convince an English teacher in high school that Exodus was as great a book as Wuthering Heights and Ari as tormented a character as Heathcliff. She was a hopeless romantic and didn't get it. "Too modern." was her dismissal.

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: stevethesqueeze
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 08:03 AM

I learned more about the troubles in Ireland from his book "Trinity" than anything else I had read or experienced. One of his non fiction works on the troubles contained the phrase "there's no future in Ireland, only the past over, and over, and over again" helped many us undertstand what was going on back in the seveties. He helped many of us find hope.

He was a true genius.

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 11:43 AM

stevethesqueeze,

I'm with you. Trinity was a real eye-opener. Brilliantly written, combining history and fiction.

He'll be missed.

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 12:09 PM

People don't seem to know about Redemption, the sequel to Trinity. It, too, did a great job of telling the story of Ireland. I read all of the Holocaust books Uris wrote, and really liked them. I did care as much for Mitla Pass and The Haj, so I didn't read any others of his more recent novels about the Middle East.
I learned a lot more history from Uris and Michener than I did from textbooks.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: Giac
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 12:28 PM

Beat me to it, Joe. Was going to mention that, for me, Redemption was just as good as Trinity. Those two, and Exodus, were my favorites of his novels, being like plates of good food when one is really hungry.

Mary

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: Peter T.
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 12:37 PM

A truly mediocre writer, but, like many another doorstopper fiction writer, he made you feel good about reading big "important" books by overloading them with facts (Oh, I am learning about Hotels, Hawaii, Samurai warriors, airplanes, the justice system, the Arab world, etc.). Still an excellent formula for bestsellerdom.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 01:33 PM

My favourites Mila 18 and QB7 but really enjoyed them all unfortunately they dont seem to be on the bookshelves these days
Selby (cookie less)

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 03:52 PM

I never could finish the one I tried, Trinity.

Sorry to hear his has passed on, though.

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: johnross
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 04:11 PM

Exodus is a good read, but it's also very blatant propaganda. It was commissioned and written (and the movie was made) as a very conscious effort to gather support for Israel and its struggle against its Arab neighbors. In particular, it was targeted at Amercian Jews, with the goal of making them identify with Israel as the Jewish Homeland for all Jews, including those in North America whose life was far more comfortable than their European and Israeli co-religionists.


Whether this was justified is a separate question. This is not the appropriate forum for that discussion. Without money and other support from America, Israel may not have survived. But as a young American Jew, Exodus was presented to me and others of the postwar generation as a heroic saga with "us" as the epic heroes.


Leon Uris was indeed a fine storyteller. But it's important to understand exactly how he and his backers manipulated his audience.

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 04:41 PM

Unfortunately his version of history was taken as truth by an awful lot of gullible people. He was careful to present 'both sides' of a story but in a way deliberately twisted to make 'his' version seem not only reasonable but true. Sorry you're dead Leon, you could spin a good if dangerous yarn.

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: Gareth
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 06:40 PM

I still have copies of "QB7" and "Batttlecry" on my bookshelves.

A good author, and if the criticism is that he mixed fact and fiction, well find me an author on recent history who did/does not do that.

I will make no comment on "Trinity" - I havent read it, I am afraid that when Americans start writing about Ireland, objectivity tends to disappear.

Gareth

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 07:39 PM

I am afraid that when Americans start writing about Ireland, objectivity tends to disappear.

I've got a feeling the same applies when it comes to Israel.

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: PoppaGator
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 10:42 PM

I discovered a copy of Trinity at the library just a few years ago, long after it had first been published. I knew of Uris as the author of Exodus and other books about Israel, and was *very* favorably impressed that he had devoted a thick book's worth of work (a year or so, perhaps?) to depicting the struggles of a people other than his own.

I've gotten enough highbrow education to recognize that books like those of Uris and Michenor do not represent the highest literary art, but they're not supposed to. They're intended for a large audience, they're enjoyable and entertaining, and they present a broad and reasonably objective view of complicated historical deveopments to a lot of people who might otherwise not learn anything at all about the subject matter at hand. As such, these books are a very valuable part of contemporary world culture.

I enjoyed Trinity enough to read the sequel, Redemption, and enjoyed them both very much. As I was already familiar with most of the history covered in the books, they were not as informative to me as they surely would be to a reader new to the subject, but I learned something and found them to be essentially truthful.

If you liked those two books -- and even if you didn't like 'em because you thought them inadequate -- let me recommend an even better work of historical fiction about twentieth-century Ireland: Morgan Llywellyn's [sp?] trilogy 1916, 1924, and 1949. (I suppose it's a trilogy; at least, it is one at the moment -- the third installment, 1949, was published just this year. For all I know, there may be a fourth one yet to come.)

I think these books are superior to Uris' (at least, to his two works set in Northern Ireland) both as literature and in terms of historical scholarship, but they're still quite entertaining and accessible to the average reader. I should mention that most of the main characters -- like the author -- are women, and much (though by no means all) of the narration is from a women's point of view. This didn't bother me a bit, but I can imagine that *some* male readers expecting tales of revolution told from a warrior's point of view might be disappointed. Most others will probably be pleased with a very complex depiction of the experience of an entire people.

But I digress! We're here to eulogize the recently departed Leon Uris, not to compare him unfavorably to another author, and I apologize. Uris had an axe to grind, certainly, and probably saw himself as having a mission to lend his talents to the effort to establish the state of Israel. He succeeded admirably, and his life would have been a success if he had never published anything except the hugely influential Exodus. But he did much more, not only producing several more works serving the honor and glory of Israel and of the Jewish people, but going even further towards develooping a vision of humanit as a whole. I, for one, appreciate his admirable efforts to draw attention and understanding to the troubled folk of Ireland, much as he did for his own brethern. Good for him!

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 11:14 PM

Much as I liked the book, I guess that one aspect of Exodus left me unsatisfied: it did not present the Palestinian perspective at all. I still believe the book was a valid presentation of the story - from the Israeli perspective and view of truth. I think that Israeli perspective is a valid perspective - but it is not the only perspective. Uris tried to remedy that later in The Haj, but I think that book was a failure. It just wasn't a very engaging piece of storytelling.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 11:38 PM

I second the comment about Morgan Llywellyn's trilogy. Excellent.

I am afraid that when Americans start writing about Ireland, objectivity tends to disappear.

I've got a feeling the same applies when it comes to Israel.

Are the English, Irish, Israelis, or any others for that matter, so much more objective when writing about another country? I doubt it...unless they are without passion.

Sorry, Mr. Uris, RIP.

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 03 Jul 03 - 05:17 AM

I agree he wasn't a brilliant writer but a great storyteller.
I thought his book about the reconstruction of Germany after WW2 should have been required reading for Bush and Blair as it showed that it was possible to have pre-planned for the aftermath of war and have teams (legal, police, public works, civil service)ready to go in once the fighting had stopped and get the infrastructure running again.
But then, it didn't have any pictures...
RtS

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: GUEST,An English Patriot
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 02:09 PM

I've only just discovered the old hack was dead. In Exodus, he portrayed the British as a bunch of nazies. Britain is a country that sent the cream of its manhood (including many Jews)into battle, saw it's cities bombed, saw its empire dismanteled, and it's econmomy destroyed, so that the Nazi concentration camps could be liberated. Have a nice time in hell Leon! Anyway, he was a truly crap writer who wont last. Eve now you wont find many of his books in the bookstores.

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: GUEST,A wolf
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 05:43 PM

Harlan Ellison called him Leon Urine. Hee Hee.

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 06:41 PM

So--the Uris thread is resurrected. Would that he were.

English patriot has some strong thoughts. Would he, however, leave open the possibility that there are grey areas and that Uris described them.   

The issue of WW2 was one thing and,politically, post WW2 became a problem for the British vis a vis Palestine/Israel.   Exodus gives a fairly accurate description of the situation---it was not unlike the sad tale of the St Louis that FDR managed to turn back to Germany.

You may disagree with him, but you surely have to realize that no person or nation are always correct---the U S and U K had no interest during the war of halting the massacres in the concentration camps. They had a war to wage==a proper one I mightadd.

But, this could lead to a long discussion. Let me just add that Uris wrote many other tomes and they covered many ethnicities and many political situations.   So does Herman Woulk. so did Shirer, anad let us never forget the writers here in the U S that confronted segregation. My point is that Uris, like all the others, knew their material and presented it in an honest way.

By the way---Winston Churchill is my hero. I only mention that because even he had grey areas in which I would disagree and agree.


Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 09:22 AM

How much of the venom heaped on Leon uris is because of his politics? He isn't ever going to be another Shakespeare or Edgar Allen Poe but you know, the man could tell a story and remember he waas writing fiction. Everything you say English Patriot is correct but Bill Hahn sums up the whys rather nicely also. I liked his stories and the politics be damned. Just as I like Agatha Christie's stories even if she portrays Americans as a somewhat seedy bunch. She's a good read. Fare winds and following seas Leon. Neil

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: GUEST,robomatic
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 07:22 PM

It's a tribute to Leon Uris that some of the vilites have guested in to lay stones on Maeve's grave. A pint to yer memory, writer!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Edward Gibbon once presented the Duke of Gloucester (brother of King George III) with a copy of the first volume of his Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.
When the second volume appeared in 1786, Gibbon again arrived to offer a personal copy. The duke's reply? "Another damned, thick, square book! Always scribble, scribble, scribble! Eh, Mr. Gibbon!"

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: GUEST,An English Patriot
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 07:20 AM

Good point, Bill H. I did go in there stomping with size 12 boots. My only concern was the reputation of the British Army. It was a conscript army (consisting of one Private Williams, my father) who risked everything to bring about the downfall of one of most monstrous regimes in history. It was indeed one of our finest moments. I didnt think Leon Uris has considered that and I thought he should have done. I also think that Britain had a difficult job in Palastine. What was the right thing to do? Just because the Jewish lobby in America was/is powerful doesn't make the Zioist cause right - or wrong. Of course, I realise it is more complex than that and I am not trying to protray the British, or their army, as goody two shoes.

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: GUEST,robomatic
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:23 PM

Darn, Guest AnEP has gone and trifled with a good rant by being reasonable. Indeed we are talking about gray areas and I am not aware of many novelists who can clean out every corner of attitude and produce something we will all like. My buttons were blown off by use of the word hack which I believe Uris, as well as Michener, now Rutherford clearly rise above, in that they shed a greater quantity of light than heat.

I have a book on Wars in the Mideast, which prefaces with: The Arab Israeli question is not a matter of right vs. wrong, rather a case of right vs. right.

Support of the Israelis does not mean to me a denigration of all that is English, and I don't think Uris wrote in that light either. I think much can be made of the English in Palestine, but that belongs in its own thread. I'd be real interested in what people have to say there. We are simply paying tribute to someone who did the best he could to make sense of complicated issues in a genre of literature that he co-created.

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 06:35 PM

Thank you for the kind and, surely, open minded comments. It is true that the situation in Israel should have its own thread if one wants to start one---this one is about Uris who, as said, wrote about other situations and ethnic problems in the fiction genre.

As to other suggestion re: a different thread. I only offered it because in the nob-fiction world I had the privilige of interviewing Micahel Oren the author of Six Days of War (historical piece re: 1967 war in Israel and what lead up to it). Additionally, I was one of the younger ones glued to the radio for the U N vote on Israeli Statehood---and, also, knowledgeable in the dealings of Ben = Gurion vis a vis keeping check on his own terrorists (Begin and The Stern Gang). Anyway---that is for another thread.

The respect for the Brits never wavered. It did, however, have friction.   But, in the end, as all things political nations ally themselves for their own interests. Remember it was Israel, UK, and France together in the Suez Crisis and it was the U S that broke that well intentioned operation up.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: Obit: Leon Uris - RIP
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 06:46 PM

I left out that I aired that interview on my program---TABLETALK on WFDU in Teaneck NJ. You can check us out on the web
http://www.wfdu.fm

I also produce and host Traditions on that station with my co host Ron Olesko

Bill Hahn