1960's Australian Folk Albums

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Bryan Sutton
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 08:58 AM

The generally posted words for 'Maryborough Miner' do not quite fit my memory of A L Lloyds singing on a vinyl LP that I heard back in the late 60s of early 70s. It could have been Outback Ballads, it had a photo on the cover of a lot of desert with a shepherd and his two dogs in the middle distance. That version, as I remembered it, started 'Im a maryborough miner, as you may understand...' and later had the phrase 'my patent pill dispenser is the sure fire cure for gripes...' My problem is the usual version doesnt quite fit my remembered tune, also that second phrase is a gem. Can anyone help.

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 08:49 PM

G'day Brian Sutton,

If by "The generally posted words..." you mean those in the DT, I must say they are much what I have usually heard ... and 'John in Brisbane' suggests he had them from a Lloyd recording. From where does your variant come?

In tracking down various versions one needs to check whatever versions Lloyd has given ... then compare with the source books he would have used. He never "collected", in any modern sense, in his Australian spell - rather he heard the songs in their native element - learned many - wrote a lot down in notebooks for his needs in remembering and singing them. (Information from Lloyd's private letter to Australian folklore collector John Meredith)

It was decades later that he became a "folklorist" - and he was not of one the 'purist' persuasion. Rather, he combined, edited ... made up from the whole cloth where it suited ... to mould songs that fitted the aims of the Working Mens' Song Group at EFDSS. It is quite possible that both versions you mention are different 'Marks' of the same song process.

All that said, it's one of the bywords that "there is no 'correct' version of a folksong". Sing what works for you ... and defend it with conviction.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Joybell
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:44 PM

I have a poster from Nariel Creek, 1972, which shows the "Bushwackers and Bullockies Bush Band" - written on their tea-chest bass. It was just before they dropped the "Bullockies" part of their title. Joy

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 10:57 AM

G'day Joy,

That ... or a similar photo ... also appears in the book/collection of Nariel tunes Music Makes Me Smile. I have an idea the photo comes from the 1969 Nariel Festival ... but need to check that one out.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 01:41 AM

I see that liner notes from several 1960s Australian folk albums have been posted here. I can post liner notes from the 1950s Australian folk album, "Diaphon Presents selections from REEDY RIVER," if they haven't already been posted here or elsewhere on the web.

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 10 Aug 04 - 02:40 AM

G'day Gerry,

That would be very nice of you ... even if you do slip under the bar set by alinact: "... 1960's ..."! That Diaphon recording would be, as you note, from the 1950s. Is that the one from the 1954 recordings of the Sydney production cast - including the (real - original) Bushwhackers Band?

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 01:06 AM

Yes, Bob, that's the one. Here are the liner notes, followed by a few comments/questions of my own.

Front Cover

Diaphon Presents selections from REEDY RIVER        

Back Cover

Diaphon presents ... "Reedy River"

Excerpts from the Sydney production with the original cast - and their soloists - Milton Moore, Cecil Grevas and Jack Barry

"...Now still down Reedy River..."

I suppose that if I had not been pestered by members of the cast who were friends of mine, I would never have seen "Reedy River." It's funny how reticent most Australians (myself included, I must confess) feel about seeing and hearing the characters of our own country in epics about Australia. Australia to us often seems to lack the romance and colour of other countries, whose histories are forced with monotonous regularity down our throats, often in a very subtle and palatable way per medium of novels and films. That's how I felt about it all, anyway. I was very wrong, and, if you feel at this moment as I did then, my advice to you is, see "Reedy River," or, if you can't do that, relax and listen to this recording a few times. For here in Dick Diamond's play and in the authentic Australian bush songs that wend their way through it as surely and calmly as Reedy River itself (if it really exists!), you will find the real Australia. Here is no "Collet's Inn" in which the characters are merely European shadows against a highly romantic Australian setting. In "Reedy River" you will meet living people, and what colourful personalities they are!... Squatters, swaggies, barmaids, country schoolmarms, shearers and, of course, the eternal lovers. You will be carried by them to their campfires; to the country hop at the old school house, the Reedy River Pub, and then into the shearing sheds. You'll join with them in their joys and their little sorrows; and, what's more important, you'll feel very proud and very warm. That's why we, at Diaphon, were so eager to put Reedy River on disc. We felt that lots of people who had seen the show would like the opportunity of having a permanent memory of it, and we knew also that there were many people who would not have the opportunity of seeing it. For them, this album will be the first collection of Australian folk music sung by ordinary men and women, whose forbears helped to create it. It is the sincere wish and hope of Diaphon that we have been able to catch a little of the sincerity, the excitement and simplicity of the music which goes to make what the theatre itself terms "a show as warm as a handshake."

We take this opportunity of thanking the Management of new Theatre for their permission to incorporate many of the notes on the songs in our own cover notes. These are taken largely from the excellent Reedy River Song Book, which is available from any of the Australia-wide New Theatres.

Side One

Band One - "CLICK GO THE SHEARS."

Perhaps the most famous of the Australian bush songs, the tune is derived from an old English song, "Ring the Bell, Watchman". On this recording you hear Milton Moore with the Shearers and Bushwhackers' Band, consisting of lagerphone, bush bass, harmonica and guitar.

Band Two - "EUMERELLA SHORE."

Loius Lavater set these words to music. Originally they were sung to the tune of the old American song, "Darling Nellie Gray". This is the number that opens the show and is sung around the campfire by the shearers. The Eumerella, incidentally, is a river in South-Western New South Wales, and to-day the township of Neweralla is set on its banks.

Band Three - "FOUR LITTLE JOHNNY CAKES."

The scene is the Saturday night hop at the Reedy River Schoolhouse. Everyone is there; the girls in their Victorian best and the men for the most part looking most uncomfortable in a variety of "Sunday bests". In comes an old swaggy, who adds to the proceedings with this rendition of traditional lyrics set to music by Louis Lavater. The song is variously known as "The Whaler's Rhyme", "The Shearer's Song" and "The Black Fish Song". Cec. Grevas is the soloist.

Band Four - "REEDY RIVER."

Side one concludes with the "name song" of the show - "Reedy River". Chris Kempster, one of the cast of the Sydney production, and himself a well-known collector of folk music, has arranged the setting for the well-known Henry Lawson poem.

Side Two

Band One - "OLD BLACK BILLY."

We feel that if anyone was collecting recordings of authentic folk music from any part of the world he would find it very difficult to overlook this lovely example of the "troubador" styles. The tune is traditional, but the words were written or restored by Edward Harrington. On this particular recording the chorus work behind Cec. Grevas' solo gives one a feeling of acute nostalgia. This version was collected from a shearer in Melbourne.

Band Two - "BANKS OF THE CONDAMINE."

Like "Click Go The Shears", "Banks of the Condamine" has enjoyed a great amount of popularity since the late last century [sic]. Margaret Sutherland restored the music and Vance Palmer collected the words. It is in the usual line of British folk songs, which have for their story the wish of a girl to follow her lover to the sea or to the wars. However, in this case she merely wants to become a shearer.

Band Three - "REEDY LAGOON."

In its original version, this song was a swagman's lament. Both words and music are traditional, and it was collected by Lance Carew and Jeff Wills at Mataranka, in the Northern Territory.

Band Four - "BALLAD OF '91."

Comparatively recent in origin (although it probably was written for the first time at the end of the last century), this recording is, perhaps, the one that calls for the greatest vocal effort of the whole collection, for it is written in three parts, to be sung unaccompanied. The song tells, roughly, of the gaoling of a number of shearers at Rockhampton who refused to work in non-union sheds. The words are by Helen Palmer, and Miss D. Jacobs wrote the music.

Band Five - "WIDGEEGOWEERA JOE."

John Meredith, also a member of the Sydney cast and, perhaps, the possessor of the best collection of Australian folk music in the Commonwealth, collected this song on tape, from old-timer Jack Lee, who has since died. It is a parody on a very old Irish transportation ballad called "Castle Gardens", and is, therefore, possibly the oldest tune in the show. Jack Barry's boisterous rendering of this shearing song gives it a charm and drive that a more polished arrangement would completely lose. Once again he has the support of the shearers' chorus and the Bushwhackers' Band.

---KEN HANNAM

Now my comments/questions.

There is no date given anywhere on the album, but I'm sure Bob is right in dating it to 1954.

The liner notes don't always say who the soloist is on each track that has one. I'm not sure the information would mean much to me, as I know nothing about the three soloists anyway, but as an obsessive-compulsive I find the omission annoying.

The liner notes never identify by name any of the backing singers and instrumentalists. It's really odd that the notes identify the instruments played, but not the folks playing them! Chris Kempster is named as being in the cast and as writing the music for the title track but it never actually says that he sings or plays on the album. John Meredith is also mentioned but again it doesn't actually say he's on the album in any capacity.

The recording of Reedy River is just a few stanzas from the middle, both the beginning and the end of the poem/song are left out. Was it that way on stage, too?

I'm confused by the parenthetical comment on the Ballad of '91, "it probably was written for the first time at the end of the last century," especially since they then say the words were written by Helen Palmer. Were they thinking Helen Palmer wrote the words at the end of the 1800s? My understanding is she wrote it around 1950.

Anyway, I hope a few people will get something out of this, and maybe add to what I know about it. Gerry

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: rich-joy
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:21 AM

Timely resurfacing of this thread : "Reedy River" has JUST been put on again in Darwin, NT, by a Top End Folk Club and Cavenagh Theatre Inc collaboration (I THINK they last did it together in Darwin c.1982??? - or before ...) Anyway, 'Catters, Chris in Darwin and Tony in Darwin were in the Bush Band (and Tony played Alf, as well) ...

Wish I'd still been there to see it ...

Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 07:07 AM

G'day again Gerry,

It's wryly amusing to read what was said in some of the old notes! I especially like:

"... CLICK GO THE SHEARS ... Perhaps the most famous of the Australian bush songs, the tune is derived from an old English song, "Ring the Bell, Watchman". "

I wonder how some of the orignal cast members would have reacted to knowing that Click Go The Shears was a direct parody of an American song - Ring the Bell, Watchman ... written by Henry Clay Work to celebrate the ending of the American Civil War!

Ah well, we're surely making errors just as egregious - and might be spared to read of them in our dotage!

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Joybell
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 07:50 AM

The American influence on "Australian folk songs" has never been properly acknowledged. American miners, entertainers and sheet-music publishers had a considerable effect on Australian audiences during the 19th Century. Publishers of sheet-music deliberately targeted Australia as a new and profitable market. The fast American clipper-ships could reach here well before the slower English ships traveling the slower route. People waited on the docks for the very latest music. They were keen to be up-to-date and modern. The songs of Stephen Foster, and other American song-writers, became more popular than the songs that came here with the settlers. Joy

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Phillip
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 12:33 PM

There is a copy of The Great Australian Legend for sale on ebay. I've only just seen it, and there is only one hour left to go on the auction. At the moment it is selling for £6.33 - $11-something. The record is fantastic. I've only seen it for sale twice before. In the 1970s I got a copy for £3 second hand. About five years ago I saw it for sale at a record fair for £60.

The auction is nothing to do with me but if you like Bert Lloyd, Martin Wyndham-Read or Trevor Lucas, and if the hour isn't up I would run over there pretty quick

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Phillip
Date: 06 Jan 06 - 02:20 PM

In the end it went for £33, $58.

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,John Cass
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 03:30 AM

Hello everyone out there.

When I was a younger man, in the mid 1960's Australian folk songs - be they melodically based on British ballads and maybe the words were bastardised versions of British tunes, were very popular.
One of my favourite records was on the "Score" label and was called something like "Moreton bay and other songs, mainly of convict origin"
Featured artists were
Martyn Wyndham - Read
Brian Mooney (recently returned to Australia from a protracted stay of 20 + years in a county in the Irish Republic)
and David Lumsden, who played a Banjo, quite magnificentally.
I read recently on the Internet, that that record has been re-released on a C.D.
Does anyone out there have any more information on this including where the C.D may be purchased here in Melbourne, on what label it has been re-released etc.
Certainly would appreciate all help on this score (no pun intended)

Thanks in anticipation;

John Cass
03 9561-3541
0432-246-876

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: freda underhill
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 07:10 AM

Hi John

The Australian Folk mag Trad & Now website refers to issue Dec 2004 - Feb 2005 on page 37, which has an article by Malcolm J. Turnbull on the Early Years in Melbourne. It refers to a clipping from the Melbourne Age advertising a joint appearance at the East Brunswick Hotel (March 1999) of four of the best-known Melbourne folksingers of the 1960s: Martyn Wyndham-Read, David Lumsden, Brian Mooney and Danny Spooner. The occasion was the launch on Compact Disc of the landmark album Moreton Bay, originally released by the Score label in 1963.

If you can get that issue of Trad & Now, there may be more info about the launch & the CD. I have some issues of the mag, but not that one. you can make enquiries at www.tradandnow.com or email
[e-mail]

best wishes
freda

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 08:58 AM

John, I spoke to Danny about that CD sometime back when I couldnd't locate it thru the CD shop catalogues, & he gave me a contact who might be able to help. I think i still have his email at work, so I'll have a squizz tomorrow & call you. If I don't have it I'll contact him again.

freda - the article has no more info than you quoted.

sandra

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: freda underhill
Date: 22 Jun 06 - 09:15 AM

ta Sandra, and btw I have something for you

f.

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 07:33 AM

email from Danny May 2005 & I still haven't followed it up!

........................
The Morton Bay record did not include me and I am not sure where you
could get it. You could try Janette Gillespie Melboune Folk Club,
they did have a launch there which I sang at, Janette is on (03)
9481 6051 or 0414 73 26 67.
........................

sandra

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 23 Jun 06 - 09:22 PM

Try Jeanette Gillespie at
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Phillip
Date: 23 Mar 07 - 12:37 PM

There's a copy of The Great Australian Legend for sale on ebay until 26th March. No bids at the moment, and starting at £9.something

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Rowan
Date: 24 Mar 07 - 01:47 AM

Just a quick correction to a comment way above. Mick Slocum was not an original member of the Melbourne "Original Bushwackers & Bullockies Bush Band". That group coalesced from a mob (many of whom had some attachment to Melbourne Uni) that sang and played around Carlton and Mick joined them later when he left Canberra. Another person often regarded as an original member is Dobe Newton, but he joined even later.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Bruce, Sydney.
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 06:22 AM

To Margaret Roadknight, I was introduced to your and Graham Lowndes' singing by listening to Chris Winter's Room to Move radio program on ABC early 70's, and I must have seen you on GTK surely. I especially liked your version of Tully's 'Ice' very much. I did not realise Graham sang the version on Extradition's album, which I now have. I just got hold of a copy of Tully's 'Loving is Hard', which is very special to me - first time hearing it in 35 years.

Great singing, great memories. Please keep on doing what you do!

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Doug Christie
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 07:43 PM

Hi,
I have a copy of The rare "Moreton Bay" Convict Origin. LP (Score Label Melbourne.) from 1963.
Brian Mooney, Martyn Wyndham- Read, David Lumsden. I will be listing this on EBay on the next few days. Seller CHRISVINY. Wonderful Condition Mint. Regards.

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 05:32 AM

can any one help me with a record or a copy of 'a wench, a whale and a pint of good ale' by martin wyndha-read etc? money no object, kerry murphy, 03 5985 6559, [e-mail]

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Woody in Hughesdale, Melbourne
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 02:42 AM

Dec 8th 2010 and I'm trying to contact Margaret Roadnight regarding a Reunion I am organising incorporating aspects of The Green Man in High St Malvern.
FYI.....The Green Man was about 80-90 metres down from Glenferrie Rd heading towards Kooyong Rd and is now a Liquor store and wine cellar.
However in the period from 1967 - 1970 it was very much part of the social formation of many a young lad from De La Salle College just down the road.

I can be contacted on :
[e-mail]
home/office tel no: [phone]

Regards



Woody Wilson

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 06:58 AM

Margret's website with contact details

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: The Doctor
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 07:17 AM

I've just spotted this thread. I have, I believe, copies of everything Martyn has recorded, including some he'd forgotten about, on CD, although I do have some of the original LPs. Anyone who is interested in/desperate for a copy of anything can either PM me or contact me through my website www.peter-taylor-folksinger.co.uk.

Subject: RE: 1960's Australian Folk Albums
From: GUEST,Contact with Margaret Roadknight
Date: 08 Dec 10 - 08:40 AM

Thanks Sandra from Sydney....You're a doll:-)

Checked out website.....Will be in touch with Marg

Woody