BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck

Subject: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Alice
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 12:11 PM

Wonder of wonders, a federal job that I'm qualified for has opened up in my town. I've worked for the state government years ago, but this is the first time I've applied for a federal position. I'm just a teeny bit intimidated by the process, probably because I want this job so much! I don't have any of the extra points like being a VISTA volunteer and the like, but I am still hopeful. I just found out about it on Thursday night and the ap has to be in by 4pm tomorrow. I had to scramble on Friday to get an official copy of my college transcript. Gee, why am I so intimidated about this? Maybe because the application process is so strictly formulated?

Wish me luck. I need this job!!!

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Dave Swan
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 12:32 PM

Good luck, pal. Are you going to be a secret agent?
D

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 12:32 PM

Best Wishes and Good Luck Alice!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Alice
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 01:17 PM

It is an editor position for Natural Resources and Conservation. I would be doing editing and desktop publishing. My dream job! Thanks for the good wishes.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Dave Swan
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 02:49 PM

Sure Alice. An editor, the perfect cover for a secret agent.

Will you get a trenchcoat and a code book?

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Peg
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 02:59 PM

Is the job available there because those offices are located in your town? I am just curious. I would like to know more about this organization...

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Alice
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 03:18 PM

Dave, I hope I get a secret decoder ring and one of those cool phone shoes (spike heels).

Peg, it is located in my town.

AAArgh! Now I am second-guessing even what type of paper I am using. Is there anyone with experience doing a federal application who can help me? I've searched the 'net but can only find guides I would have to purchase. I'm wondering what the ideal paper weight and type would be to print the application. All I know for sure is white paper. I think I need to go buy different paper... all I have is either too heavy or to light weight.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 03:30 PM

You don't want my advice. I applied for an excellent Federal job, in a time of dire need. I don't remember any details about paperwork formalities, anyway. What I do remember is meeting with this guy, giving the standard suck-up schpiel (sp?), hearing INANE comments, then being asked if I had any questions. My question was what was their time frame (I was in dire straits.) He decided to 'fess up at that point (about 40 minutes into it) that there was a Department-wide hiring freeze (nationally) in place. The dumb twit couldn't acknowledge up front that he had failed to cancel my interview when the freeze went into place, so he was going to fake me through an entire hour long interview, then not hire me. . . .

Now I work in the same building with him and he doesn't remember me.

YOU, on the other hand, will not have an experience like that. Yours sounds like a great job.

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 03:32 PM

Wow! A secret agent with a top-secret Federal Agency! Good luck!

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 03:48 PM

I actually do have secret agents of a Federal Agency on the floor I'm on. Problem is, when they venture out on rare occassion, they look EXACTLY like secret agents, I swear. So, you, Alice, should keep that in mind when dressing for a successful interview.

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 04:16 PM

Alice,

Don't worry about the paper! Worry about what you write on it! Since you're applying to be an editor/writer, be sure your spelling is correct and your grammar is in good form. Have good tear sheets of things you've published, have links to pages you've put on the web. If you're asking for references from people who know about your writing, contact those people now and send them tear sheets of your work as a reminder, so they're very clear on your skills in their recommendations.

Pay attention to the KSA's--Knowlege, Skills, Abilities section, if there is one. Go into detail--less is not more when it comes to those annoying forms. Don't expect the human resources folks to read between the lines--your application has to clear a lot of people who AREN'T writers (and aren't particularly good about thinking beyond their little boxes) before it gets to the one doing the hiring.

Many years ago I sold a self-published brochure (taken from a freelance article I wrote and published) about how to get federal seasonal jobs. Much of the strategy is still applicable, but so much of the process is automated now that keeping files current and available to cut and paste into web forms is the way to go.

PM me if you have specific questions. There are several current federal employees at Mudcat who can also answer questions.


SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 05:39 PM

Alice, I retired from a Federal agency 2 years ago. I spent 22 years in Human Resources, the last 10 as an HR manager. I can safely say that I have reviewed thousands of applications, and have given a few dozen classes on the application process. Two important points: The instruction for the KSAOs should say something like give the date(s), position/job title, and employer at which you used or acquired these skills. This is important, and if you omit it, kiss the job goodby. Also, answer every question. Leave no blanks blank. Avoid saying "not applicable," even if the question seems to have no relevance whatsoever to the job.

A point on the process: Each agency does things a bit different, but this application is probably going to a HR/Personnel office, and they are the keeper of the bureaucratic keys. They will send a list of qualified candidates to the office that actually has the vacancy in their own sweet time, probably 2-4 weeks. Often the only thing that office gets is the list, so anything you include with your application may or may not be provided them. Keep a copy and offer it when you are interviewed. Also, depending on the grade level of the job, the personnel office may be legally required (by the Veterans Preferance act of 1946, as amended multiple times) to refer qualified disabled veterans and other veterans (2 separate classes of individuals) ahead of non-vets. This is no reflection on your qualifications or the desires of that office...its the law.

As SRS says, the weight of paper makes no real difference (don't use onion skin!), and odd-sized paper or plastic covers are definitely out. Because of the job, the application itself (grammer, spelling word choice, appearance, and so forth) are at least as important as the answers to questions. If you want, send the whole thing to me at [e-mail] and I'll go over it for you. Or PM me with specific questions if you'd rather.

Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 05:54 PM

Wow, great sounding opportunity, Alice and great advice, SRS and artbrooks!

You deserve this, Alice, good luck!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Alice
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 06:15 PM

Thanks, everyone. I have confidence in my writing and design skills. I have contacted a couple of the previous supervisors and employers who may be contacted. I've read the instructions and application three times.... I'm ok. Artbrooks, thanks for the offer. I did notice the preferential hiring criteria, none of which are in my qualifications. I'm just hoping for the best outcome. It will take 8 weeks maximum for their decision as stated in the vacancy announcement.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 08:30 PM

Good luck, Alice. If I were still hiring federal employees, I'd hire you in a minute. I enjoyed my 25 years of federal employment, and I was able to take a lot of pride in my work. I hope it works out as well for you.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Alice
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 10:43 PM

Thanks, everyone. With Art's advice, I am going into this process with much more confidence.

Isn't the Mudcat amazing? I was hoping someone here could assist, and I wasn't disappointed!

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Aug 03 - 10:57 PM

Hey, any former VISTA volunteer is good folks. Hope you get it and I'll ask the Big Guy to pull a few strings fir ya'....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 02:56 AM

Alice, I'm a federal employee (National Park Service ranger). If it's the standard "171" form, just three important bits of advice here.
First, under Knowledge, Skills and Abilities (KSA's), take the form, cover it with white paper, except for the heading at the top, where it say's "Knowledge, Skills and Abilities" and xerox several copies. You can, and should, use several pages, because this section is where you really shine. No modesty allowed! Even if you've mentioned something you've done, or a skill you have, in an earlier section of the application, they will not credit you with the skill in the KSA's unless you mention it there, too. They won't say, "well, she mentions this in an earlier part, but she doesn't mention it in KSA's, but since we know she accomplished this, we'll give this credit as a KSA as well." So it's very importnt to list things in every section it applies, even if you're repeating yourself.
   Secondly, use active verbs. Rather than writing that you "helped"or "assisted" etc., write that you "facilitated" or "accomplished." This is very important, because you will get a higher rating if you use active buzzwords. Tese buzzwords are standard in federal applications, so much so, there have been lists of buzzwords written to help people with their applications.
Third, take nothing in the application for granted. If the standard form asks you what type of machinery you can operate, mentioned the kind of computer and typing skills you have, even if that sounds too elementary to you.

Feel free to PM me if you'd like clarification on anything I mentioned, or for any questions you might have. Good luck!

Chanteyranger

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Alice
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 12:06 PM

I am not using a form for the KSA's, but rather typing my responses on a plain sheet. Should I quote each KSA question and then write my response under it, or just write the responses, A, B, C, and D?

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 01:10 PM

Always rephrase the question into a statement and make it the first sentence of your paragraph's responce.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 01:24 PM

In regard to verbs Chanty is right about active verbs but his illustration is B.S.... his examples are synonyms of 15cent words for 5cent words....but they are still past-tense - ....make the verbs active by using present-tense.

Go to http://www.ajb.org (America's Job Bank - Occupational Outlook Handbook) for professonal, free, government advice.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 01:28 PM

http://jerz.setonhill.edu/writing/grammar/act-pass.htm

Examine this website for a review of active and passive voices.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Alice
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 01:42 PM

Thanks for the link, Gargoyle. I write in the style you recommend.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 01:44 PM

http://www.ems.psu.edu/~schall/Verbs.html

1. Find and use an appropriate Action Verb List

2. Keep the word choice simple Avoid an impressive sounding vocabulary. Use simple, concrete words that say something. Don't utilize plain English, simply use it.

3. Keep it specific Don't write: 'Responsible for the management of sales staff...'this is too general. Write: 'Ran a team of eight sales staff, two research staff and five administrative assistants and delivered a 15 percent growth in sales within the first 8 months.'

Keep it short by making every word count You must write tightly. Cut any words or phrases that don't add to your topic. Set yourself this test. Draft your resume and then resolve to cut 20 percent of the words.

Avoid jargon, abbreviations or acronyms Avoid management-speak and overusing abbreviations and acronyms.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: harpgirl
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 02:20 PM

I don't have any advice, Alice. I just know the federal government would be lucky to have you...I hope you get it! The job sounds perfect for you! Good luck, harpgirl

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 02:22 PM

Yes, you're right. "Facilitate" was a bad example. Use simple, active verbsw.

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Amos
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 02:52 PM

I hate it when Garg is right....


A

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 03:50 PM

Actually, he's half right. It is important to use past tense as well as present tense in your KSA's. Not to brag, but take it from someone who scored very highly on them. They'll want to know when and how you used your knowledge, skills, and abilities, not just what they are. You wil score higher if you do that. Again, even if you mentioned them in an earlier part of the application, where you're listing your work experience, say it again in the KSA's section! If possible, mention how many times you did a specific task. For example: If you list editing skills, mention, if you can be specific, not only the skill itself, in clear present tense active verbs, but how many reports/articles/whatever it was you edited. Any time you can document your skills with when you used them and for what, you're ahead of the game. So, past tense is also what they're looking for. Three to five pages of KSA's is something to shoot for, eleven pages is normally too long for those rating them.

Anyway, I got your PM, Alice, and yes, I'd be happy to look over your application.



Chanteyranger

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Alice
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 04:06 PM

Hi, Chanteyranger,

I hand delivered the application to the human resource office about thirty mintues ago. I'm very confident.

I'm a calm and collected person under pressure, but having very short notice to prepare this and knowing the Federal Government has strict guidelines for applications, I am appreciative of the moral support from those who responded to this thread.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 11 Aug 03 - 04:14 PM

Good luck, Alice. I could use an editor on my posts. "verbsw" indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Applying for Federal job, wish me luck
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Aug 03 - 02:58 AM

Alice,

It doesn't hurt to keep any eye on your application now that you've turned it in. Do your research. Find out who supervises that position--they're liable to be doing the hiring or be part of the hiring committee.

Don't become a pest, but do call at least once (and probably not more than once) in a few weeks to ask about the process and speak briefly with the supervisor if you can. Help them remember your name later when that list arrives. How you handle the conversation depends on how the supervisor lets it run--if he/she takes the time to speak with you about the job, and some good information is exchanged, that's helpful. Don't pump them, and don't let yourself be pumped for info. You never want to become a nuisance, so after one good contact, be patient and hope that your interest puts you at the top of the list.

Sorry, Art, about the crack about human resources (my ex works in HR for the COE, and I think probably does a great job), but I've discovered through academic channels at least that HR doesn't always hire the sharpest folks. I applied for a job at U of New Mexico in the library administration office, doing what I do now plus one other easy task. When I went through town a few weeks later I stopped to ask about interviews, only to be told they'd finished them. The young woman at the HR front desk was very sweet, but when I asked if the application had any notations showing why I wasn't selected, she said "it says you have to have an associate's degree." I politely pointed out that I have a master's degree. "Let me write that down" she offered. I pointed to the first line on the page under my name, where the MA was clearly the first thing listed.

When I applied for my job now, as writer for the library (filled at the high end of the administrative assistant category), I sent everything, and called a few weeks later to find out about interviews. The secretary told me my name wasn't on the list. Again I called HR. I was told "you didn't show on your application that you can make hotel and car reservations."

"But I applied to be a writer."

"Doesn't matter. If it's an administrative assistant position, you have to show that you can make hotel reservations."

I wrote a page of notes with examples of times I'd made reservations for hotels and rental cars and faxed it to them. And then they sent my application over to the library. I have not in six years there made a single hotel reservation for anyone.

Good luck!

SRS