BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!

Subject: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 12:39 PM

Rupert Murdoch and his news personality disorder network, Fox, have sued Al Franken, in an attempt to stop publication of Franken's book ""Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right" due out next month.

Al Franken, on vacation in Europe with his family, thanked Fox for the free publicity.

The new book is said to be along the same lines as Franken's book "Rush Limbaugh is A Big Fat Idiot" (I think I got the title right).

Here is a link to a story about it:

http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/4039068.html

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 12:55 PM

"Franken is neither a journalist nor a television news personality," the complaint reportedly stated. "He is not a well-respected voice in American politics; rather, he appears to be shrill and unstable. His views lack any serious depth or insight."

Ya just never see and hear shrill or unstable on Fox do ya?

TIA mitout cookie

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 12:55 PM

"Fox says Franken's use would "blur and tarnish" what it called its 'signature slogan' ["fair and balanced"]."

What's "blurred and tarnished" is Fox's news coverage in general.

Sock it to 'em, Al!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Cluin
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 01:09 PM

I loved "Big Fat Idiot". Looking forward to the new book.

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 01:12 PM

Here is an interview Franken did with Buzzflash that gives some background to this story. In June, Franken appeared on a C SPAN book panel with O'Reilly and Molly Ivens, and O'Reilly blew a gasket when Franken mentioned O'Reilly's lies about a show he was formerly on, "Inside Edition", having won journalism's prestigious Peabody award.

Al Franken Buzzflash interview

Thin skinned, those right wing nuts, ain't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Alice
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 01:22 PM

Faux News is an embarrassment to journalism. The way the announcers shout at the camera and smirk with snide comments, a style that seemed to begin with Shephard Smith, really is nauseating. Shephard Smith acts like a hyper used car salesman. I lost count of the times I've heard him mispronounce words or say "whatever that is" when he is supposed to be reporting the news.

Here's a bit of Franken's response to Faux News:

"I normally prefer not to be out of the country on vacation when I'm
                         sued. However, from everything I know about law regarding satire,
                         I'm not worried," Franken said in a statement.

                         "But I'd like to thank Fox for all the publicity," he added. About 24
                         hours before reports of the lawsuit hit the newsstands, Franken's
                         book, due out next month, ranked No. 489 in sales on Amazon.com.
                         But by about 5 p.m. yesterday, it had shot up to No. 4.

                         In the suit, Fox News describes Franken as "unstable," "shrill,"
                         "intoxicated" and "deranged."

                         "As far as the personal attacks go, when I read 'intoxicated or
                         deranged' and 'shrill and unstable' in their complaint, I thought for a
                         moment I was a Fox commentator," Franken said.

                         "And by the way, a few months ago, I trademarked the word 'funny.'
                         So when Fox calls me 'unfunny,' they're violating my trademark. I
                         am seriously considering a countersuit."

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 01:44 PM

I am heartened to hear that the book has shot to number 4. I never cease to be amazed by the obstinate mulishness of the right wing media. I also can't quite figure out just what sort of trauma could cause such rabid, anti-social behavior as is being regularly rewarded by the Republican right and the vast majority of SUV drivers.

Anyone have a good wild ass guess?

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Amos
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 02:08 PM

The mulishness derives from extended denial of experience, which is traumatic indeed, but not in a short, acute way, like a blow to the head. It is more of a cultural trauma that corrodes the soul and debases the intelligence over a long period of what (in different cultural frames) might even be called brainwashing. The idea that by personal responsibility and action and own initiative one can make something happen and reap benefit thereby is kept a barge-pole's distance away. A blanket of strange conceptual mishmashes and misconceptions about the nature of privelege are inserted in its place. A slow and insidious insanity is intialized. The syndrome is reinforced by association with those who assert it to each other like madhouse mirrors reinforcing distorted images.

There's yer trauma!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 03:11 PM

Don't kid yourself and read to much into this. Roger Ailes is a master manipulator. This "lawsuit" has his name written all over it. I would bet that it will be dropped or dismissed.   Ailes has managed to turn the spotlight on Fox News Channel once again. He is playing Al Franken and all of us as puppets. We talk about this story and people start thinking Fox News. The residule effect is that SOME people will remember the word FOX and tune in. It doesn't matter if it is good publicity or bad publicity, ol' Roger likes publicity because it puts bodies in the seats! He will take the slings and arrows that are thrown at him, but the bottom line is he meets his numbers.   This is a man who made Richard Nixon president! Selling Fox News is a piece of cake!

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 03:11 PM

Why do you think Rupert hired him?

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Alice
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 03:32 PM

Well, Fox sold Franken, too. I just checked Amazon.com bestsellers and Franken's book is now at the top... and it isn't even released yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 03:35 PM

just like they created publicity for Faux News...and their shirts and everything...i still want an O'Reilly Youth shirt....

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 03:37 PM

Ailes doesn't care about Franken. If he sells 1 book or 10 million, that isn't Ailes concern.   If Ailes gets a slight boost in the ratings, he will be happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 03:42 PM

Same deal with the T-shirts.   People who may not have ever watched O'Reilly suddenly became aware when they heard this story in the media. Curiosity factor.

When Fox News first started, they parked a huge billboard truck announcing the new channel in parking lot across from CNBC, his old network (and mine too!). The bang for his buck was not in people driving by, but rather in irking his old bosses. Ailes replacement at CNBC was a man by the name of Bill Bolster. Fox News ran ads in the trades talking about how Fox News had "bolstered" it's ratings. A slight "in-joke" in the industry that cost them a few dollars, but the publicity paid off in the long run.

Ailes has a master plan, and he is very good at it. Don't be fooled!

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 04:07 PM

Ron, no one really cares if Roger Ailes is behind this, or if Fox gets media attention. The invocation of the name Rupert in thread title was just an attention getter. And I'm elated that the media grabbing (if that is what it is) is resulting in another bestseller for Franken. We all know that Franken isn't too likely to return the favor to O'Reilly when his book gets released, no matter how much Ailes/Fox/O'Reilly/Rupert try to bait him with lawsuits and outrageous lies.

Methinks you may be taking the thread a bit too seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 04:13 PM

Relax Guest and try some decaf, nobody is taking this too seriously.

I merely pointed out what I see as the real reason behind the suit, based on my experience in the past. This isn't a case about right wing vs. left wing, it is merely publicity and selling product.

By the way, in this country the name "Rupert" isn't likely to get much attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: DougR
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 05:21 PM

You folks just can't abide fair and balanced reporting can you? Fox News Network is the only place to go for fair unbiased reporting (IMO of course.)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 05:27 PM

yuk yuk yuk. Good one DougR!

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Amos
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 05:33 PM

DougR:

Who turned your sense of humor on, buddy? I am impressed!! :>)


A

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: GUEST,Alice no cookie
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 05:46 PM

II'm with Ron. The name Rupert took me awhile to catch on to. It was the Fox v. Franken that caught my attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Paul G.
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 06:52 PM

Franken's book may just be the appropriate antidote to Ann Coulter's inflamatory best seller "Treason". Talk about a scary human being! Anyone ever hear this storm trooper speak? She's condescending, smug, flippant, and plainly divisive in her premise that all liberals are traitors. Give her hell, Al....

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 13 Aug 03 - 08:35 PM

I've actually met her. Politics aside, she is a very nice person.

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 12:53 AM

Just a reminder folks--it isn't just Americans who read Mudcat.

And then, there are some Americans here who are savvy enough to connect the dots between the word 'Fox' and the word 'Rupert'.

I apologize, of course, if that went over your heads.

"Politics aside, she is a very nice person."

My grandfather always said "Everyone is basically nice. But a whole lot of nice people aren't decent human beings."

I'd say that likely applies to Ann Coulter. It is easy for an intelligent person to master the basic social niceties to get ahead in life. But her life's work shows her to be something other than a decent human being.

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Peg
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 01:43 AM

Whenever   Ann Coulter was a guest on "Politically   Incorrect" (which   was often, Bill Maher seemed to like her) she was an arrogant, condescending bitch...no patience for anyone's views but her own, constantly rolling her eyes and making faces while people were talking.   Really apalling behavior.

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 02:28 AM

Conventional people are roused to fury by departure from convention, largely because they regard such departure as a criticism of themselves.
- Bertrand Russell -

Ya think?

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 04:34 AM

Every time I see Al Franken I remember Franken and Davis on the Smothers Brothers and in that baggage car in "Trading Places." What a brilliant guy. And a 1973 Harvard grad, too. A little smarter and he might have made it into the class of '73 at Princeton...along with Sen. Bill Frist and me.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 09:37 AM

Guest - no need for you to be so arrogant, of course we know who Rupert is, our point was he really isn't such a player here in the US and the name doesn't have us shaking in our boots as apparently he does in other parts of the world. And yes, it isn't just Americans that read Mudcat and I'm glad you recognize that some of us do!

Also guest, your grandfather's message may be a bit a clouded. Not everyone is evil just because you don't agree with them. As I said, I don't agree with Ann Coulter politically, but she is far from dangerous. I don't know many people that really take her seriously since she comes across as almost a cartoon sterotype on TV. Still, she is a pleasant person and that does count for something in my book. I wouldn't vote for her to be dog catcher however.

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 11:21 AM

katlaughing, that's a great quote that really strikes at the heart of the matter with the conservatives. I think we should stop calling them conservatives, and start calling them conventionals. And we could call liberals changers.

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Nerd
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 11:56 AM

Ron,

Many people recall that Hitler was very charming when you met him in person. So "politics aside, he was a very nice person."   

Now, according to Coulter, all liberals are TRAITORS. The penalty for high treason in some cases is DEATH. Given that she thinks I should be executed for my political beliefs, I just don't think I can believe she's really a "nice person." Given that her role model is McCarthy, who ruined the lives of some of my friends, I won't buy that just because she's friendly to your face she's decent. She could still be plotting to stab you in the back.

Remember what Hamlet said? "That one may smile and smile, and be a villain." That's her.

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 12:56 PM

Nerd, I don't think it is a fair analogy.   First of all, there is a difference between being "charming" and being a nice person. Second of all, I would like to see someone who called Hitler a nice person.

I don't think Ann Coulter is callign for the death penalty for liberals. If she is, I will stand corrected and agree with you. I would not classify her as a back stabber either.   She is a right wing clown and I do not respect her opinions or views, but that doesn't mean she is an evil person.

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 01:31 PM

Okay ya'll,

So how is my favorite little white bear, who always seemed to be so kind and gentle, in league with the right spinners!

(that's a joke folks! Just to let you know that I know at least two Ruperts. You might say that the one involved here is the Anti-Rupert.)

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 02:07 PM

My first association with Rupert is Rupert Knickerbocker. See how many people will date themselves with that one!

Don't forget Rupert Holmes!

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 04:07 PM

This is my editorial painting of the whole affair

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/fairfox.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 04:30 PM

I watched an interview with Ann Coulter the other day. She was a pleasant, well-spoken, smiling ..fanatic! There was this low-key, incredulous CNN anchor trying to ask her reasonable questions about her positions and whether she REALLY believed what she seemed to be saying...and she managed to say, pleasantly and jovially, that sure she did! It was absolutely scary! I need to read more about, and by, her to see just what is going on.

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Nerd
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 05:33 PM

Ron,

it is well documented that many of the people who met Hitler personally thought that he was a charming, nice man. Quite recently someone either died or spoke up who had been with him shortly before his death, and who said he was always nice to her. I don't have references on me at the moment, but what I am saying is not, I think, controversial.

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Nerd
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 05:43 PM

A quote from a review of the recent TV film about Hitler:

"Hitler's circle of acquaintances always maintained that, personally, he was charming, caring and, even when stressed, never behaved other than pleasantly to the women on his staff."

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: TIA
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 05:46 PM

Some actual quotes from an otherwise "nice person."

QUOTES BEGIN

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."

"When contemplating college liberals, you really regret once again that John Walker is not getting the death penalty. We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors."

"Liberals become indignant when you question their patriotism, but simultaneously work overtime to give terrorists a cushion for the next attack and laugh at dumb Americans who love their country and hate the enemy."

"The only beef Enron employees have with top management is that management did not inform employees of the collapse in time to allow them to get in on the swindle. If Enron executives had shouted, "Head for the hills!" the employees might have had time to sucker other Americans into buying wildly over-inflated Enron stock. Just because your boss is a criminal doesn't make you a hero."

"There is no serious dialogue or engagement of ideas between the left and the right in this country because there are no good Democrats."

"God says, "Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It's yours.""

"I think, on the basis of the recent Supreme Court ruling that we can't execute the retarded, American journalists commit mass murder without facing the ultimate penalty. I think they are retarded. I'm trying to communicate to the American people and I have to work through a retarded person!"

"Cheney is my ideal man. Because he's solid. He's funny. He's very handsome. He was a football player. People don't think about him as the glamour type because he's a serious person, he wears glasses, he's lost his hair. But he's a very handsome man. And you cannot imagine him losing his temper, which I find extremely sexy. Men who get upset and lose their tempers and claim to be sensitive males: talk about girly boys. No, there's a reason hurricanes are named after women and homosexual men, it's one of our little methods of social control. We're supposed to fly off the handle."

"My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building."

QUOTES END

Other than this attitude, I'm sure she's a nice person. That's a little bit like "Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?"

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: TIA
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 05:52 PM

Oops, missed this one:

"The swing voters - I like to refer to them as the idiot voters because they don't have set philosophical principles. You're either a liberal or you're a conservative if you have an IQ above a toaster."

and this:

"In the corporeal world, international law is whatever the United States and Great Britain say it is."

Nice?

Dangerous!

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: curmudgeon
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 06:00 PM

I had never heard of this "person" before this thread; I don't watch TV or listen to anything but NPR. Can someone post a link or two so that I may learn more of this incarnation of evil. Thanks, I think -- Tom

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 06:13 PM

I wasn't familiar with the lady (missed something somewhere) so I looked up some stuff on Ann Coulter. Boy, what a piece of work she is! There are some minds whose workings I just cannot fathom!

Donuel, you're a flamin' genius!! I saw your other one, too.    WOW!

Back in the Seventies, I used to watch the Dick Cavett show quite a bit because he would have full, ninety minute interviews with a single guest. Interesting, well-known people such as Katherine Hepburn and Orson Welles. Orson Welles mentioned that when he was very young, he went on a trip to Germany. I don't know what his connections were, but he wound up at a banquet, sitting next to Adolf Hitler. This was before much of anybody knew who Hitler was. He said that he conversed with him a bit, and he seemed fairly pleasant, but he had the impression that what he was sitting next to was just an animated body. There was nobody occupying it. No personality. Literally, an "empty suit."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Frankham
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 06:19 PM

I like Franken and Micheal Moore's approach at not taking seriously the serious things of the world. There's something to be said for humor. I can't get upset by Coulter because I think she's funny. Maybe the word is ludicrous. The statements she makes are for effect and the way to react to her is not let her get to you. The statements are positively goofy and carry no logical weight. Each statement mentioned above is not particularly worthy of conversation because they are so off-the-wall. But they do sell some kind of books. Al Franken is an Einstein compared to her Mortimer Snerd.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Paul G.
Date: 14 Aug 03 - 07:03 PM

Frankham:

The problem is that many, many on the right and far right DO take her seriously. They take Rush Limnaugh seriously, but hell, Coulter makes Limbaugh sound like a voice of sane tranquility. For that reason, the rest of us better take her seriously. Remember, to extend the analogy, that folks didn't take Hitler seriously...before long it was "oops -- there went Poland...". The Franken book, with all of this attendant publicity is a start to finding some fairness and balance...

pg

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: kendall
Date: 15 Aug 03 - 05:05 AM

Doug, my friend, I saw and heard O'Rilley admit that Fox is right leaning.
And, all those charges that the Clinton people destroyed government property turned out to be a pack of lies, but, did O'Rilley apologize? You, and some other conservatives here seem to be nice folks, but, most of the republicans I know are mean spirited, hateful, greedy, judgemental control freaks. Ann Coulter is their poster child.

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: DougR
Date: 15 Aug 03 - 05:14 PM

Bill D: Why don't you read her book and give us a review of it?

Kendall: Conservatives ARE nice folks. You liberals just don't realize it. Not agreeing with one's point of view does not mean that the person you are in disagreement with is not a nice person. You know that!

I've heard Ann Coulter several times on talking head shows. She does not come across, IMO, in any more vehement way when expressing her views than many do here on the Mudcat who cannot abide her.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Aug 03 - 05:38 PM

I consider myself a liberal, but there are people full of hot air (and worse) on both sides.

Ann Coulter comes across on TV as a clown. Cast from the same mold as the late Morton Downey, Rush Limbaugh, Abbie Hoffman and others. Going back in history, Lord Haw Haw and Tokyo Rose did the same thing. They pepper their message with catchy phrases, off the wall ideas, and other eye opening suggestions.   Most intelligent people will laugh it off. At worst, they will PERHAPS realize that there is more than one opinion and viewpoint.   They might learn something about themselves. They don't have to change their opinion.

Are they dangerous? Only if we let them be. Does the majority of America really belive Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh? I really don't believe that.

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Amos
Date: 15 Aug 03 - 05:59 PM

Donuel:

Magnificent interpretation of events re Fox. Much appreciated. Disseminate widely!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: TIA
Date: 15 Aug 03 - 06:04 PM

Ron, believe it. (Well maybe not the majority, but I have otherwise intelligent dear friends and relatives who believe every word they say - it saddens and frightens me).

DougR, yes SOME conservatives are nice folks, just as SOME liberals are nice folks (and SOME none-of-the-aboves are nice folks). I consider you to be a nice conservative 'cause I have never once heard you say that I should be killed before I become a traitor. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Aug 03 - 06:55 PM

Tia, maybe your friends and relatives aren't as intelligent as you assume if they can belive some of the stuff they say.

As you pointed out, it isn't the majority. Those that believe are welcome to live out their life in their tar paper shacks. The rest of us real Americans can do without them.

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Paul G.
Date: 23 Aug 03 - 02:56 PM

To resurrect this briefly -- THe jusdge ruled in favor of Franken -- and againt Fox. Here is s great quote from Franken in the aftermath of one of the finest examples of unintended consequences that I have ever seen: "The irony upon irony of this lawsuit was great. First, Fox having the trademark 'fair and balanced' -- a network which is anything but fair and balanced. Then there's the irony of a news organization trying to suppress free speech."

Subject: RE: BS: Fox v. Franken: Smart Move Rupert!
From: Strick
Date: 23 Aug 03 - 04:35 PM

I think I like this quote from the New York Times:

"United States District Court, said that a person would have to be 'completely dense' not to realize the cover was a joke..."

I'll leave it to you to decide whether you think it's funny or not -- oops, I hear that Franken registered the word "funny" when this all broke out. Now what do I do?