Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 04:23 PM

My God, you're right - I've missed it! That heart attack must have been worse than I thought....

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: lady penelope
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 04:11 PM

'Cos it was on last night, that's why...!?

I thought it was quite good, actually. Steve Coogan played it quite straight and came across as a well meaning ( though not necessarily well behaved ) man, caught up in the middle of things through no effort of his own.

Danny Baker on London Radio, raves about Pepys on regular occasions and that, as well as various other erruptions of the subject, have confirmed that I must get me a copy of this tome.

I didn't realise he wrote songs too, that could be interesting......

Buxom, lady ( given good cause ), lobster and port I can do, but as for the compliant.....well let's just say I'll have no truck with casual "Italians" my good sir.

TTFN Lady P.

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 03:40 PM

Shepherd's Market Dave, provided the lobster and port are served up in the Connaught Hotel. It was me what revived the thread, BTW, having lost my cookie I know not why. Anyway, how come you've seen the show already?

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 10:32 AM

We found the program quite amusing.

Incidently, does anyone know where it's possible to find a buxom and compliant lady for a lobster and bottle of port, these days . . . . ?

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Mr Happy
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 09:31 AM

PEPYS'S DIARY (Benny Hill)

A shy young maid has took a room down at the Village Inn.
Her bedside light is oh so bright and the curtains oh so thin.
At nine o'clock, she enters her room, at half past nine, she sleeps.
Lord Clarendon walks quickly on. but naughty Samuel Pepys.

Oh we know it's right
It's in black and white.
And it's all written down in his diary!


I went to rent a lady's house she handed me the key.
She said, "It's to be let as it stands with all that you can see."
"And are you to be left with the house?", said I in a saucy tone.
She said, "I'm not to be let with the house, I'm to be left alone!"

Oh we know it's right
It's in black and white.
And it's all written down in his diary!


Squire Pitt locked his wife in her chastity belt
Then climbed upon his horse.
He left the key with the footman, lest he was killed in the wars.
He'd not gone far when the footman shouted breathlessly.
He said, "Squire Pitt, this key doesn't fit!"
Squire Pitt said, "You're tellin' me!"

Oh we know it's right
It's in black and white.
And it's all written down in his diary!


Halfway up a wall outside a castle in Traymere
There is a sign that reads "The Duke Of Denby Was Born Here".
I've travelled far and I've travelled wide but I never can recall
Ever hearing of a Duke being born halfway up a wall!

Oh we know it's right
It's in black and white.
And it's all written down in his diary!


Last Thursday morn, my wife gave birth to a lovely baby boy.
As the doctor took me to see them my heart was filled with joy!
When he said, "He's got your husband's nose",
My wife looked quite surprised.
She said, "That may be but you must agree
He's got his father's eyes!"

Oh we know it's right
It's in black and white.
And it's all written down in his diary!

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 08:26 AM

Reduced to a state of enforced lethargy after my first heart attack, I should be concentrating on the big things, but have plenty of time to dwell on the little things like what's on the telly.

At 9pm GMT tonight BBC2 is broadcasting a one-off about this exceptional fellow. He will be played by Steve Coogan, and I've read that the show is quite good and quite bawdy (but toned down a bit by BBC self-censorship) even if there's too much Coogan (ie Alan PArtridge) and not enough Pepys in the portrayal. Maybe you'll be able to pick it via satellite in the more distant parts of Empire, Rick.

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 14 Sep 03 - 07:55 PM

Here you go, Rick. Samuel Pepys: the Unequalled Self, by Claire Tomalin.

Just a word of warning, though: if you click the clickie, you'll end up knowing you need to own this book! (The clickie takes you to the hardback edition, but note that there is a link taking you to a paperback edition.)

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Sep 03 - 06:20 PM

So what's 'washing the wainscot' a euphemism for, I wonder...

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 14 Sep 03 - 05:54 PM

Your wife a sport, Know what I mean, know what I mean?......holiday snaps....could be could be! Does she like 17th century French saucy novels???

Eh, M,sueur

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Sep 03 - 04:17 PM

And the thread crepys...
I just used a dictionary. I don't really think spelling matters that much if we can understand each other. It was just a silly comment, nothing more. I do believe spelling IS consensual, but dictionaries often win arguments. (If they decide 'nukular' is correct, I am NOT complying.)

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Sep 03 - 02:29 PM

My Goodness, someone who still believes that 'shoulds' work.

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: mack/misophist
Date: 14 Sep 03 - 02:22 PM

Like sex, spelling is (or should be) consensual. Ask Max for a spell checker.

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Sep 03 - 10:31 AM

I don't know that the meaning of lechery has changed over the years, only the interpretation and perhaps the spelling. I just started reading the on-line version.

(What does someone washing the wainscot have to do with causing him and his wife 'good sport'?)

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: mack/misophist
Date: 14 Sep 03 - 09:45 AM

Calling Pepys a letcher is perfectly reasonable. He did so himself, so how are we wrong to quote him. The interesting thing is how he catalogues his letchery on one page and repents it on the next.

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Gareth
Date: 14 Sep 03 - 08:24 AM

Not that inexplicable, Pepys' givng up his diary, his eyesight was going, and reading and writing became a difficult business.

Needless to say Pepys appointment was an example of "Political Cronyism" and a fortuitous one at that - Pepys was a follower of the Montagues, later the First Earl (??) of Sandwich. This was part of the spoils resulting from Charles II s restoration.

I love Pepys theory on corruption, the contract went to the most apt supplier, as is proper. Pepys still expected a "drink" from that supplier - But as has been said morality was different then.

Gareth

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Sep 03 - 04:38 AM

I've heard that the Puritans did not disapprove of music per se, just flowery music in Church.

Robin

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: GUEST,Bruce O
Date: 13 Sep 03 - 10:41 PM

Americans (and nowhere else in the English speaking world) have
overly 'Puritanized' the original Puritans, ignoring the
practices of the early Puritans themselves (who had abnormally
high rates of illegitimate births) into a modern, but fake,
psuedo 'Puritanical' ethic. That allows modern illiterate and
ignorant 'Bible thumpers' to pass judgement on our forebears, in
spite of the Biblical command, "Judge not so you will not be
judged". Pepys a 'letcher', what ignorance! Thank God (who I don't trust to do much right to my way of thinking) I am, in the USA, not often required by law to follow the lead of those I consider to be complete idiots.

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 03 - 08:38 PM

Normality in the 3rd quarter of the 17th century, wasn't the same as now. Calling Samuel Pepys a letcher is ridiculous.

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Sep 03 - 07:44 PM

'Ello Missis Fitzsimmons.....

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 Sep 03 - 03:58 PM

Tomalin's book? I've read a few takes on old Sam, but not that. Fionn, that sounds glorious....I hope I'll be able to travel again....I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Do you have any proof that this an ENGLISH FLEA!? (goons)

Rick

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Sep 03 - 02:29 AM

I like the Goons version - Monday 17th July. Upon rising, did sport with Mrs FitzSimmons!

LTS

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Sep 03 - 02:27 AM

One thing that you ought to bear in mind - particularly when it comes to acheivements and employments - in those times, the average man never made it past his 50th birthday - 30 was actually considered quite old by a society that began to work as adults at the age of 12 or 13. To keep the Navy connection, a boy could be a midshipman (practically 2nd in command) on an RN ship aged 15/16. Boys were sent away to sea/Naval College at 12 and expected to work as hard as the adults.

When Pepys became Admiral of the Fleet or whatever, he would probably have been working as an adult for half his life already.

LTS

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 12 Sep 03 - 06:22 PM

Rick, since Peter T's day the library has migrated out of the British Museum and now stands alone as the British Library. The building was much maligned during construction and, needless to say, over-ran every budget and deadline ever set. But it's emerged from all that as a fantastic resource and a wonderful place to be.

You don't need to be a prof. Just say you're researching something for one of your radio spots, even just for personal interest. To be absolutely sure of no hassle, you could mention a book you to be in there that is not available elsewhere (I could provide you with a few titles if you look like getting over, on condition that you do that gig at Mansfield you once threatened).

Once you've got your pass, just say what books you want, and out they come, regardless of whether they relate to what you said on the form. You can sit there reading Sherlock Holmes all day, if that's your taste (or travel a few stops up the Northern Line to the newspapers department, where you can read the same stories as they originally apppeared in Strand magazine). Or you might like to while away a year or two in the National Sound Archives.

If you ask for a book that's special/rare etc (I was reading the original of James I's diary of the gunpowder plot a week or two ago), you'll be shown to a padded room... (Just scream if the straitjacket's too tight.)

Re Pepys - what a loss for posterity that he inexplicably abandoned his diary after a mere six years or so. His take on the so-called glorious revolution would have been worth reading. I suppose you've read Clare Tomalin's book, which is a good bit more digestible than Arthur Bryant's three-vlume stamina test?

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 12 Sep 03 - 05:52 PM

This should make the link: LINK HERE

Dave Oesterreich

---

Fixed it. That's it - you're all going back to clicky school. :-) --JoeClone

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: maldenny
Date: 12 Sep 03 - 05:25 PM

Sorry again, must be getting tired! Hope you got the general idea the second time round, if not, it's :-

http://www.pepysdiary.com

Mal

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: maldenny
Date: 12 Sep 03 - 05:22 PM

Oops! The blue clicky didn't work.
Sorry, I meant to direct you to :- http://www.pepysdiary.com">http://www.pepysdiary.com

Mal

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: maldenny
Date: 12 Sep 03 - 05:20 PM

There's a re-run of Pepys' diaries on :-
They're doing an entry a day, starting last January and finishing (presumably) in ten years time.

The best bit is that people can add annotations to each day's events to explain or comment on them. I've found this really interesting and can recommend it.

Mal

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Sep 03 - 05:00 PM

Excuse the delay. I've been quite feverish for the last few days.

Peter, would a University professor qualify for a pass?

Rick

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Peter T.
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 05:45 PM

If you can get an accredited scholar's pass, you can handle the manuscripts of most things, unless they are surpassingly fragile, back as far as 1300 or earlier. That is true in virtually any library -- the trick is getting a pass. When I worked in the British Museum, during recreation time I would send for things like Petrarch's copy of Livy, with his own annotations, or some letters of Keats, just to say I had held them in my hands.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Desdemona
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 12:30 PM

Isn't that funny? Pepys has been coming up in conversation quite a bit lately, and I recently spent an evening with a friend, reading passages aloud! He's definitely an absorbing character, (I mean, getting to hang around with Issac Newton and Christopher Wren...!), and it's a good job for historians and the general reader alike that he *kept* a diary! .

Of course, the things he achieved at quite a young age (secretary of the Admiralty aged about 30!) are indeed impressive, but I agree that his affection for his music is one of his more endearing human qualities.

D.

Subject: Samuel Pepys, Music lover (and lech)
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 07 Sep 03 - 12:16 PM

Don't ask me why......sometimes I just get in these moods. Since I put a thread in a couple of months ago about who likes what book, I decided to re-read The Diaries of Samuel Pepys, my favourite 17th century obsessive-compulsive. Damn, he's an interesting guy! Generally I'm not high on workaholics (his Navy duties) but a man who keeps his flageolet in his pocket ALL the time, and looks for any opportunity for a toot has gotta be OK in my book.

Thanks to Peter T and Tony Quarrington (who have access to the libraries in our higher halls of learning) I've read a shitload of Pepys related material as well, and never thought I'd know as much about Britain's shaky 17th Navy (and how Pepys singlehandedly saved it)

He truly is a remarkable character and I highly reccommend his diary to anyone not familiar with him. Get an edited version, try to ignore his constant obsession with women and take note of all the (old/new?) ballads he mentions, and just how similar 1665 is to 2003 as far as people's behaviour go.

Can someone tell me about his collection of songs, now housed in Magdalene College, Cambridge.....do they actually let people hold the manuscripts?

Cheers

Rick

P.S.

Nell Gwynne: "MR. PEPYS, is that a "D" whistle in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?"

Sam Pepys: "BOTH.....my dear"!