ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!

Subject: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: GUEST,Sam Pirt
Date: 16 Sep 03 - 11:34 AM

Dear All Catters paticularly those who are aged between 15 and 25.

ETHNO ENGLAND will be taking place between June 11-18th,in Yorkshire. 50 Folk musicians, singers and dancers aged 15-25 will come together from ALL around the world and teach each other their traditions with the help from 5 artistic leaders. The camp culminates in a performance at The Beverley and East Riding Folk Music Festival. These camps also exist successfully in Belgium and Sweden. As well as great music being made, Great friendships will be made and many boundaries will be broken.

This is the FIRST ETHNO ENGLAND CAMP in England, so get in touch if you want an application form or more information. [e-mail]

Ethno England will also be running an Education Project which will be offering over 55 days of free workshops to a number of schools in East Riding and Nehbouring Environs throughout the year. The aim of the education projet will be to present workshops looking at local traditions and comparing these to other traditions around the world. This will be done through Researching, Recording, Performing and Archiving. Local artists will be brought in to run workshops and when the Ethno Week is on the schools will have exposure to the International Ethno Participants.


For more information please get in touch: [e-mail]
Sam Pirt, Ethno England Director, 97 Hook Road, Goole, DN14 5JR

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 16 Sep 03 - 04:59 PM

if you would like to speak to someone personally about Ethno England then PM me with your telephone number and I am happy to give you a ring (UK only)

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: John Routledge
Date: 16 Sep 03 - 07:19 PM

Good Luck with the project Sam. It deserves to succeed.

With the assistance of Linda how can it fail.

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 04:58 AM

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: Greycap
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 05:24 AM

Ageist bastards

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 06:09 AM

I wouldn't put it quite as strongly as Greycap, but - why the limit on ages? It seems to me that it would be of interest to all ages, not just youngsters. To open it up to all nationalities, but then put a limit on particpants' ages, does seem a mite discriminatory, particularly as there is teaching involved - teaching normally comes from the more experienced, and this usually means older, rather than from the same age group. And, of course, it's not only youngsters who want to learn, either.

I'd hazard a guess that there's more funding available for educational projects for the age-group mentioned. Although that, in itself, does seem ageist. Perhaps there's a way to open it up to other age-groups without rocking the funding boat?

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: Forsh
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 06:16 AM

There is also funding arround for Inter-Generational Projects, (Age Concern North Tyneside run such a project) I must admit, I would jump at the chance to sit and learn to play something new & different, but, alas, It is a case of 'Me age it is just 64 but for work I've got ne chance, and they've Barred Me From The Championships In Me Clogs For The Belt to Dance ... ' (Sob..too old at 47) :{D

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: GUEST,Sam Pirt
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 11:51 AM

Hi all

Thankyou for taking interest in making comments about the first ever Ethno England.

The purpose of Ethno England is to extend the tradition to young people. In order to do this we have a large education program running in conjunction with the folk camp. This includes many 'older' people who have a wide knowledge and proficiency in all aspects of folk tradition.

It is not the purpose of Ethno England to exclude older people but rather to use them as a sourse of experise to involve and inspire younger people in the tradition.

I would hope that this is something that anyone would welcome who is interested in folk music.

The world is full of festivals and opportunities for older people from which younger people often feel excluded. We are trying to break down that barrier.

Thankyou,

Sam Pirt
Ethno England Director

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 03:10 PM

Well said, Sam. Cut the guy some slack, folks. I too "tore him a couple of strips" on the age issue when the project was first mooted in a related thread some months back, and have somewhat regretted it since.

It is an unfortunate fact, but a fact nevertheless that sometimes the younger folk feel intimidated by the clicky atmosphere of some clubs and sessions; and the directions they want to take their music do not always find support in the establishment. But they are young, that is their right, prerogative and role. EthnoEngland's format may not be what we are used to. But it may be what we need. Or one of the things we need.

If we truly want to bring young people to folk, we should applaud and support Sam. And if we really feel that we have wisdom and technique to impart, let's volunteer to run sessions for him - if he needs us; because I've heard him play and he can teach some of the older folkies a thing or two himself...

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: lady penelope
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 07:17 PM

I have nothing against youth led programmes in folk, but especially in the UK I find that so many people of my age (37ish) want to learn but are stuck between people who have spent most of their lives in folk and, well, small children. It's very intimidating.

No disrespect to the organisers of Ethno England but it does seem that once you hit 26 you're on your own and that's not just the folk circles that do it.

Do you think that there is any chance of someone organisingan event that actively includes those who are a bit clueless and over 25?

TTFN Lady P.

P.S. Good luck with the Ethno England bash!

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: Barry Finn
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 09:45 PM

Hey Sam, GOOD FOR YOU & hi, nice to hear from you espically with what you're attempting! In these days where funding for the arts is going down the toilet, the music for, by & in public is getting the life taxed out of it, media gaints want to own & sterilize what ever is creative for the sake of a few cents & you musicians in the UK who are losing you're musical heritage & are having your government try to stamp out your culture & not for the first time I might add, need this more now that ever. We all need this more now than ever. I once heard a very young (at the time) musician, Eliza Cathy speak about how England in the past were so good at crushing cultures because they first practiced & perfected the practice on themselves. This, she said was one of the reasons that her research into finding traditional English tunes was so difficult. To me it's strange how many of the musicians play Irish tunes in England & stranger still the how & whys that Irish music still flourishes in a country where their own musical traditional does not (the way things are going in the US we may be right behind you). A culture lives on through it's youth only if it's passed on by it's older representives. Look at the Copper Family, the Stewarts of Blair, the Carter Family or the songs of Elizabeth Ccroin. What traditional singers & musicians carried on their tradition. It certainly wasn't the older generation they were to busy trying to pass on what they already knew to all those young kids who had all the piss & vinegar & the passionate desire to learn & love what they were handed. We don't have much left of those past generations left. I was probably in my mid to late 20's when an old cape horner gave me just a spark of the torch that they all carried, he died in his late 90' a good few yrs back now. If the youth don't carry our past & their present into the future they'll be no future & what we all know & love will become a memory in the wind. Those of us that are older should be, not criticizing the youth for trying to keep what we should rightfully be passing on to them, but doing everything in our power to make this a reality & help them to have a future. Shame on any that would say we (the elders) should've been included & cry fowl over our age. It's now their world & maybe in time when they have a little more control in what direction the future takes they'll take us along for the ride. Dis them now we may be left behind because of the disrespect shown them while they were younger & struggling. I do remember how hard some of those struggles were. Wasn't that part of the reason why some of us went to Woodstock, who was there to witness the birth of the "British Invasion" or that special sound from the West Coast. Back then some of us Yanks had to go to England just to be appreciated without a fight & a struggle (Jimi Hendricks) & the same the other way around. Our elders hated what we sounded like, what we were & how we lived but we're here dispite some (or many) of the roadbocks that were placed in front of us.

Sam, I don't give a hoot how young I'm not, I do care that the likes of you & others of your generation & the ones just behind you get every opportunity that's available to you & don't look back. Some day you'll be giving it up for free, like alot of us, to those that will continue the cycle. I'm sure that old gizzer Bill Sables is right there (probably always was too) backing you up to the max.

Sorry if I've offended any of you non youths but it's all about them now not us, we had our day.

Sam, Best of Luck with your endeavors & your future.
Barry

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 04:30 AM

Don't quite know what ethno-England is but good luck with it. Folk needs a boost to release it from the deadhand of the folk-clubs. But we should remember that the young don't have to listen to the older generation at their feet. They can listen to their records. I think Martin Carthy has all his recordings out on CD and that is a good place for anyone to start. We need a new generation to carry our music on, and it is ours, young and old.

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: mooman
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 04:58 AM

Superb project and initiative Sam! All power to your elbow!

Wish I was young enough to come!

Peace

Richard

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 11:33 PM

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 11 May 04 - 02:05 PM

Heard no more on this - is it still on? I know some youngsters who might be interested.

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: Rasener
Date: 11 May 04 - 02:19 PM

Try this El Greko

http://www.smith4.karoo.net/

I think it is a great idea, but students who are very talented will probably miss out becuase £150 quid per person is a lot of money.

From the above website
Participation Fee £85 to all International participants / £150 to British Isles participants (excluding Eire) (The fee includes lodging, excursions and all meals during ETHNO ENGLAND) YOU MUST ALSO PAY AND ORGANIZE YOUR TRAVEL TO ENGLAND (Transport can be provided from York Train Station, Selby Train Station and some UK airports - please contact us to arrange a pick-up point)

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: GUEST,Oryx
Date: 11 May 04 - 02:21 PM

It is still on. And I have heard that there is still plenty of room. So book now. I am sure they would be happy to hear from you.

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 11 May 04 - 02:41 PM

My daughter and her boyfriend are interested, but they baulk at the "skilled" requirement. She plays guitar and sings reasonably, but is more into Stan Rogers and Eric Bogle than trad. And her boyfriend is a mean guitarist, but knows nothing about folk. They are interested in the opportunity to immerse themselves in folk, but worried that they will be sidelined.

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: nutty
Date: 11 May 04 - 02:46 PM

Hopefully, Sam will make an appearance at the Yorkshire Gathering, George ... I do hope you are coming again ..... then you will be able to talk to him about it.

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: Willa
Date: 11 May 04 - 02:49 PM

El Greko

It's hard to imagine anything involving Sam Pirt that would not be inclusive and encouraging! Why not follow Linda's advice in her first post and PM her with any queries. She will be able to give your daughter and boyfriend the right advice.

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 11 May 04 - 02:55 PM

Thanks folks - will do. The dates don't look too promising, as they fall in the middle of revision period for A Levels... Perhaps next year.

Don't know about the YG2004, Nutty. Very busy right now with studios and things for the 5th album, and that takes a lot of weekend time, as the dayjob itself has picked up again. If I make it, it will be on a surprise basis (for me too).

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: Rasener
Date: 11 May 04 - 03:33 PM

I was thnking about Lucy wright and Paul Young, but they are students at York University and I am pretty sure the cost is so prohibitive.

They are so talented and will be future stars when they have finished their studies.

El Greko, just make sure you see them when they come and play as guest artists at St Albans on Sunday July 18th.

It would be very interesting to get your honest opinion on them.

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 11 May 04 - 05:49 PM

We would love to make to cheaper, but we can't unfortunately. the £150 covers full board and lodging for a week, travel costs within the week and the artistic directorship of Sam Pirt and Tim van Eycken James Fagan and others. The price difference is because the cost of travel from abroad in more expensive. We have some african musicians who are paying £36 for a visa and then looking at over £700 for airfare. I appreciate for young people then £150 is a lot but it is comparitive with things like Folkworks, and the average weekend festival is around £50 nowadays. the Ethno Committee consists of unpaid volunteers, a fact I shall no doubt remember in Ethnoweek when I clean out the toilets at midnight!

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: Rasener
Date: 12 May 04 - 02:13 AM

Sorry Linda, I wasn't complaining. I understand the situation. I also realise just how much voluntary work goes in to make such an event happen. You should all be applauded for what you are doing.

I just wanted to make the point, that there are very talented youngsters in OUR COUNTRY who just can't afford to attend, and therefore miss out on such an experience.

Is there no way that the many funding agencies that are supporting events such as yours, providing grants based on application to such people who haven't got the money, but definately have the talent?

I think Lucy Wright and Paul Young would benefit greatly from this event, but sadly would not attend, because of the cost.

We need to be looking after our home grown youngsters who are coming into the folk world, before it is too late. They are our future bread and butter. I beleive in looking after them and they in return will in future years hopefully remember what has been done for them and support such events as yours in the future, when they are more able to.

This post is not intended to cause flaming from anybody, just an observation on my part.

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 12 May 04 - 02:52 AM

This point was made before, Villan, let's not labour it. The organisers no doubt have done their sums, and have decided that this is the way the chips have to fall. The event is still cheap - tickets to the Reading Festival this year are £105 for four days, without board. Compared to this, Ethno England 2004 at £150 for 7 days including board and excursions is a steal.

But there are other ways to support our young people. How about a club offering to sponsor their attendance, for example? Or giving them a loan repayable by promising to do 3 free gigs in the next year.

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: Rasener
Date: 12 May 04 - 04:21 AM

I take your point EG. Its the first time I have looked at this thread, so yes I may be repeating what has already been said.

I like your ideas. It would do an awful lot towards bringing the youngsters on. :-)

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: English Jon
Date: 12 May 04 - 04:34 AM

Well, I'm 29, so to old to come, but if you need anyone a bit more ancient to teach anything, drop me a line!

Good luck with it.

Cheers,
Jon Loomes

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 12 May 04 - 04:45 AM

Welcome to the other side of the hill, Jon 8-)
I'd be there too, just as fast as my zimmer-frame would let me.

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: Rasener
Date: 12 May 04 - 04:51 AM

Maybe you will go to the ball :-)

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: Bassic
Date: 12 May 04 - 10:12 AM

Mabe there is an opportunity for Sam to do a WRINKLY ENGLAND 2005? ;-) Seems there is a market for it!

Subject: RE: ETHNO ENGLAND 2004 - Apply NOW!!!
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 06:27 AM