BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 03:16 PM

Do Brit women shave their pits & legs?

Even more important, is there a good Jewish deli in London?

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: GUEST,Red Eye
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 07:33 PM

Do the follwing and you'll fit in great.

When making tea, warm the pot first. It is still ok to drink it out of the saucer. Tea can be drunk at anytime of the day. When workmen do jobs in or around your house, offer them a cup of tea, guaranteed a good job done. always use best china.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 08:05 PM

always use best china. They don't give a bugger about that. Just don't use a tiny cup. Proper tea comes in pint mugs, and pint mugs normally aren't best china.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Noreen
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 09:01 PM

I've never seen anyone drink tea out of the saucer...!

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 11:02 PM

My uncle Ralph did. He also dunked biscuits (hence the overflow) but my mother disapproved, wisely it seems. Ralph lost his teeth at an early age; an awful warning to dunkers and saucer-drinkers alike, perhaps.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 11:07 PM

heloo=my cat useec to drinking tee out of a sorcer, but he dieed, im was think of get anothern one, but i think i will get a gold fish callled carlie instead.john

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: LadyJean
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 11:58 PM

My mother, who was by anyone's definition a perfect lady, made reservations at the Trout. We took a taxi out to the restaurant. (It's very nice, really, right on the river. If you're English, I reccomend it highly.) It's a good distance from the town, as you know. When we arrived, we were informed that they had no reservation for us. Another American couple had the same experience, the next night.
We were advised, by a don from the College of Medieval and Rennaissence Studies, to stay out of the Eagle and Child, because they wouldn't serve Americans. Visiting England had long been a dream of mine. I wish my experience had been better.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 12:59 AM

So do I; it is bitter, and hard, to be disappointed. Oxford is not typical of England, though it is perceived as such in other countries. I haven't been there for twenty years or more, but I can't say I'd recommend it to a visitor, except for its architecture. You would have had a far better experience almost anywhere else. English people are pretty much the same as any other; there are good folk and bad, and most are not quite either; but most mean well, and behave with kindness and decency; though, it is true, sometimes with a reserve that can be mistaken for coldness if it is not recognised for what it really is; shyness.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: sledge
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 02:50 AM

I was born and raised in Banbury, just 20 Miles down the road from Oxford, the only reason I ever went there was for gigs at the Appollo theatre, this was years before the Mill arts Centre in Banbury really got going. If anything kept me from going on a more regular basis it was the students who I then percieved as noisy and arrogant (sorry Morty). But as I was a bit of a country bumpkin my exposure to them was a bit of a shock, now that I've travelled a bit I don't give it a seconds thought, their behaviour was no better or worse on a night out than many other cities in the UK.

Ladyjean, are you saying that restaurant bookings are never messed up in the USA, I'm sure there are also bars in many US cities that it might be best to avoid. Pretty feeble basis on which to run us down.

Allan, great that you are moving over, lots to see and do, Hope you have a blast.

Cheers

Sledge

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Grab
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 06:12 AM

Thanks McGrath. Doh! :-)

Oh yes, milk comes in "skimmed" (no cream free), "semi-skimmed" (half cream removed) or "normal" (all cream left in). I've still not worked out how that compares to the US "1% fat" kind of system.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 06:14 AM

The Trout isn't all that special, a bit quaint, and the fish in the river that come to be fed are Chub and not trout. There are nicer places to go round Oxford then that.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 07:16 AM

Is it possible the Don might have been having you on. The Bird and Baby hasn't ever been down on Americans that I've heard.

It's a smallish pub, so if a coachload of Americans or any other variety of people turned up, looking for the place CS Lewis and Tokien and company used to drink at, they might not have been too welcome.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 07:56 AM

This don is a bit suspicious,lady jean. Someone might be having you on. I'm familiar with quite a few of the colleges at this venerable seat of learning, and the College of Medieval and Renaissance Studies is not one I've ever been aware of. Mind you, there are one or two iffy establishments down the Cowley Road catering for foreign students, it might conceivably be one of those.
   The Eagle and Child (Bird and Baby), as McGrath points out, is unlikely to be wildly anti-American. In fact I have drunk in there with Americans myself, and experienced no difficulty whatever. And Tolkien and CS Lewis were sat there in the corner, pipes, Harris tweed jackets with leather patches, reading out their latest extracts from Lord of the Rings and the Narnia books, and a good time was had by all. Mind you, I'm going back a bit now.
   As for the Trout, well you could be right. Might have been full of golden-haired boys, straw-boatered and blazered, caressing their teddy bears lasciviously. Might not have been any space for American diners.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 07:57 AM

Linda and I found a wonderful pub called "The Old Bookbinders Ale House" in the Jericho area of Oxford - it was a quite zany place, and we had a wonderful time singing to a great audience on afternoon. They had a regular jazz club there and one bar had instruments all round the walls.

Martin - there are plenty of Jewish delis in London especially in areas like Golders Green, Stoke Newington, Stamford Hill etc. Once upon a time the main Jewish area was in the Whitechapel area of the East End, but most of the Jewish population have got affluent enough to move into North London now and their places have been taken by asian immigrants now. There is still a famous bagel bakery at the northern end of Brick Lane though. I expect most ladies who really need to, do shave the areas which you mentioned. Essex Girl is not exessively hirsute and therefore does not bother.

Finally, we're still waiting to know just where you will be residing in this country, Allan, and also when you will be arriving.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Trevor
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 10:10 AM

"Do the women shave their pits....?"

Another linguistic hint - round here 'pit' means bed - if you ask a woman if she likes being kissed in the pit.....well, I don't know, try it. Oops, sorry Morty!

I remember in Cincinatti, being asked by the waitress if she could "take our balls". She meant, of course, the crocks in which our salad had been served.

Try and get over to us in the Shropshire faction at some point - beautiful place, loads of music, plenty of room.

Bon voyage.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 10:55 AM

I've heard 'pit used as an abreviation for armpit on many occasions over here - the younger generation in particular, would much rather user an american term than an english one. Mind you I much prefer the word "Oxters".

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 11:10 AM

Ummm ... is he ready for the advanced stuff, like defininitions of Essex Girls, White Van Man, etc?

(I remember having to ask what 'wanker' and 'slapper' meant, although I'd pretty well worked out the generalities through context ... maybe this is PM kinda stuff?)

sian

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 11:36 AM

My definition of Essex Girl is the lass who shares a bed with me - Linda.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 01:32 PM

words are funny...words attain weight and power in a culture. They often mean much more than just 'reference', they can convey overtones of how the users think about things. Depending on the context, they can be anything from light-hearted to deadly serious. There are words, especially swear words... and words referring to sex and bodily functions and 'delicate' topics which can offend one person, and barely elicit a huh? from someone who doesn't get the context or referrent. It takes awhile to let 'foreign' terms like 'W.C' and 'Loo' and 'knickers' and 'wanker' attain their relevance in my American head, as those phrases are just not in my daily conversation...and those may not even be the best examples *grin*...

I guess this internet thing has done a lot to blend and blur the language distinctions and make it a bit easier to visit another country, but stuff we have known from childhood is set pretty firmly...it takes a bit of forebearance to make it all work...

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 01:41 PM

It's pretty safe to say that, even if you don't understand the language the English use, they'll understand the language you use, because of the movies and the telly.

And if they then correct you and tell you what the proper word is, if they didn't do that it would be unhelpful and discourteous.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 05:40 PM

I guess Allan won't know the difference between England and Britain as half of the mucatters commenting on this thread seem confused. I would advise giving England a miss and head for the continent instead .. France, Germany, Spain .. Europe is so much more exciting.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Peter T.
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 06:33 PM

Recent soundings:

(1) There are now only about 2 hours during daylight you can go onto Hampstead Heath and not be very surprised.   

(2) English newspapers have degenerated, and are now filled with what can only be called "Little Englanding". If you want to find out what is going on in the world, you have to tune into the World Service of the BBC or read the New York Times.

(3) Never eat in a railway station.

(4) Go to the English National Opera, it is cheap and good. If you have the patience, you can stand in line for cheap tickets on the day for the National Theatre. If you go to a West End Theatre at any time, do not dress up: the seats are very small, and the theatre is always overheated, you will be very unhappy.

(5) If you like museums, go to the Wallace Collection. No one ever goes there, but it is one of the best museums in the world. You will have the place to yourself. Why this is, I do not know.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 06:50 PM

Peter T,

England does not solely consist of London, as your post would suggest.

We also have Hull ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 06:59 PM

Never eat in a railway station.

You've obviously never been to Stalybridge station. The black peas are splendid. (Good folk club too)

As a general rule, you're right. Most station food is really bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 07:11 PM

Who reads newspapers on holiday anyway?

If you have to, The Telegraph, Guardian and Independent are pretty good on world news, at least as good as The New York Times. Even the Times is sometimes, though it's really gone down in recent years. The rest are basically for wrapping chip.

But you'd have a much better time with Private Eye and The Oldie.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 07:12 PM

Who reads newspapers on holiday anyway?

If you have to, The Telegraph, Guardian and Independent are pretty good on world news, at least as good as The New York Times. Even the Times is sometimes, though it's really gone down in recent years. The rest are basically for wrapping chips.

But you'd have a much better time with Private Eye and The Oldie.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Gareth
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 07:34 PM

Just remember - Us Celts, in the west - thats alomg the M4 and over the Bridge - You may see us and look down when the Captain says "We're are comencing our descent into London" don't like being called English !

Remember - " It' another triumph for Great Brittain - or - England looses again !"

Gareth


"If you ever come to Wales,
You must try our Brains Pale Ale's,
If you want to drink on Sunday,
You do have to wait till Monday !"

" have you ever saw etc ....!
Continued for 700 verses !!

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Noreen
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 08:47 PM

McG, Allan's not coming on holiday, he's coming over to stay!

And do you really mean to say, Mr Bryant, that you've missed the news that Allan's coming over to be married to the wondrous Morticia? I thought you got the news first!

In fact, he should be posting on this thread from the right hand side of the Atlantic at any time now....

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 09:07 PM

I'd got that, Noreen - but the thread was drifting into advice for visitors too, and not reading the newspapaers for a bit is one of the great pleasures of travel.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Peter T.
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 11:09 AM

I had no idea he was going over to stay!! In that case -- invest in central heating, and find somewhere that has some water pressure so you can have a decent shower sometime.

If you can find the album of Gerry and the Pacemakers where they sing the live version of Billy' Joel's "Don't Go Changing" that will (a) put you in good stead for marriage; and (b) sums up a whole universe of British music making that if you go to Blackpool or most anywhere you will be exposed to at some time, so it is best to be prepared.


yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 05:29 PM

Gareth, don't confuse him with Tips on Learning (to be) Welsh. He's got enough to cope with, without "tidy", "butty", "tampin" and (heaven forbid) "faggot".

I did come across another one in the supermarket this evening. I was told that something that I was looking for was in Aisle 9 "down the bottom". This one still catches me out, even after 23 years! I was half way down the aisle, looking at the lower shelves, when I remembered that "down the bottom" means "at the end". This may be Welsh, but I'm sure that I've heard it in England too. If you ask directions to somewhere, someone usually say "you go down to the bottom here and turn ..." This does not always mean "the end"; sometimes it's the bottom of the hill or whatever. Often a very local reference so that you don't really understand if you don't live locally, and if you lived locally, you wouldn't be lost.

Used to drive me mad when I first moved here...

Oh! But you can use your accent to good advantage. I lay on my thickest Canadian when I'm looking for a parking spot during Boxing Day sales. Some traffic wardens can be REALLY nice! Also got out of driving the wrong way on a one-way street with the same tactics. Got a bit awkward when the Very Nice Policeman asked me if I might know his Aunty in Vancouver but I just asked her name and then told him 'probably not'.

Oh. And Boxing Day = Day after Christmas.

sian

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: GUEST,Kelly
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 06:18 PM

*chimes in*

Allan is my pops (as some know) and yep, he's in England all permanent-like, and living with the lovely Morty, so no apartment hunting required.

Without being overly specific, he's living west-ish of London but not right ontop of things (if Im reading my map correctly.)

And he did arrive most safely and soundly :) I'm sure he'll be posting in the near future, so keep those suggestions coming!

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 06:24 PM

You mean you don't have Boxing Day across the Atlantic?

Otherwise known as St Stephen's Day, but only when you are singing Good King Wenceslas.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Kelly
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 06:29 PM

Nope, no Boxing Day here. The day after Christmas is just.. the day after Christmas. Usually a day of bloated bellies, sandwiches made from leftovers, and lots of naptime.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 06:34 PM

But I note from this website about Canadian holidays that they do appear to keep Boxing Day, even if their benighted southern neighbours don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 06:35 PM

Here's that Canadian holidays link

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Kelly
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 11:16 AM

Oh, another key feature of December 26th in the US is MAD MAD MAD shopping! After-Christmas sales are an American tradition of capitalism that millions take advantage of. lol

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: The Walrus
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 12:00 PM

Allan,

There is one point that will probably strike you immediately - be assured it is not your hearing and it is not a local phenomenon; The worst speakers of English in the World are the English (closely followed[1] by the rest of the 'Home Nations').

Best Wishes

Walrus

[1] As in, 'you can hardly get a cigarette paper between them' close.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: GUEST,Wotcha
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 12:54 PM

As Monty Python pointed out many years ago ..."Are you embarrassed easily? If so, don't worry; it is all a part of growing up and ... being British." This might explain British "reserve" but not necessarily the reverse affection felt for the flag (the British like to put it on everything from tea towels to underwear/pants): in South Carolina, they'd have a fit.


If you are dragging kids to the UK, they won't be swearing allegiance to a flag except maybe to some football (soccer) team. The good old "O" and "A" Levels standards have been supplanted/watered down by a National Curriculum (no local determination in schools) but are still better (IMHO) than anything you'll find in the States ... If you drive (no matter what lane you choose)in central London, you'll pay Red Ken (the Mayor, when he's not making the headlines for non-mayoral activity) for the privilege ... Doing someone a favor,in a union run workplace, could be cause for industrial action (strike) or unrest: "Demarcation" of tasks can be quite a problem.


Probably not a good idea to remind folks how many times Uncle Sam has bailed Europe out of various conflicts ... It'll be another sore point when Bosnia erupts again in a couple of years when the EU takes over ... just watch.


Britain is not part of Continental Europe (or the Euro yet), so be careful when referring to someone in Britain European ... some are still smarting after the 1975 referendum that changed geography and got Britain into to then Common Market.


Have a great time and don't forget to bring a brolly or raincoat whenever you go out.

Cheers,

Brian

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Noreen
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 01:08 PM

A lot of ignorance dressed up as inside knowledge there from Wotcha- I suppose American tourists in London would get the impression that we put the Union flag on everything from underwear to tea-towels, but I would say that's the only place in the country you'll see such things.

Demarkation disputes were a thing of the 1970s- things have changed rather a lot in this country since then. I could go on but won't waste my time.

I'm sure Allan will take other things with a pinch of salt too.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 01:36 PM

Driving in Central London is a mug's game anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 02:11 PM

Wear socks with your sandles.

Eat with a knife and fork.

Don't end all sentences with a question mark.

sal

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 02:53 PM

Eat with a knife and fork.

But not when it's breakfast cereal.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Penny S.
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 05:34 PM

Going back quite a way - icecream. There are a number of small local concerns producing excellent stuff. Roskilly's in Cornwall, and another, Rocombe (I think), in Devon. There's a very good one just outside Bicester, too. These can't be the only ones. They just happen to be where I have been. And you can get Ben and Jerry's. Wall's Carte D'or isn't bad, and many supermarkets have own brands with very good ingredients. Marks and Spencers, Sainsbury's and Waitrose are good.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 04:41 AM

Whoops Noreen - I just hadn't realised he was that Allan. Ah well, he won't need anyone to show him around or introduce him to venues etc. Now I realise that he's just coming over here to steal one of our beautiful women, I can start being rude to him.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: GUEST,Can Johnson
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 04:49 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: GUEST,Can Johnson
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 04:51 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 06:28 AM

Allan - go to see a Panto this Christmas. If you understand it - You've got the problem cracked (oh no he hasn't! - Oh yes he has...). If you don't - keep going back each year until you do!!
Quack!
Geoff.

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Micca
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 06:38 AM

It may help also to bear in mind that the Archytypical English person is Not Christopher Robin, or the irritatingly optimistic Pooh Bear, but much much closer in attitude and thinking to Eyore!!!! or Marvin , the paranoid Android, his literary and spiritual sucessor ( in Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy).

Subject: RE: BS: Tips On Learning (to be) English
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 06:54 AM

Many English also resemble Arthur Dent, also of the Hitch Hikers Guide - well meaning, but confused and bewildered.
If you, as an American can learn to also be bewildered about the World, you will make friends of us easily.
What we don't like is people who tell us they know what is happening, because, quite frankly We Don't Believe Them, and wouldn't trust them as far as we could throw them!
Quack!
GtD.