BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 12:15 PM

How many of you anti-foxhunting people keep cats ? I suppose that you all take great care to make sure that they never kill mice, rats or any other forms of vermin. Do you ever kill flies, wasps or other insects or garden pests like slugs etc. I've seen a cat playing with a mouse - I'm sure it's a much crueller death for the poor rodent than that meted out to a fox by a pack of hounds. Perhaps you consider that the extent of cruelty is determined by the genus and size of the victim.

I don't particularly support foxhunting, but I don't feel any great antagonism to people who choose to do it. I end up being more on their side because I can't stand the dogmatic approach that many people have against a sport that kills a tiny of the fraction of foxes that these very "antis" will kill with their own cars, when there are many much more important animal cruelty issues to be faced.

Before we get a whole threadrift about my use of the word "sport", I would like to point out that the word originally meant hunting. The fact that we have hijacked the word to refer to activities that are really "games" does not invalidate it's more traditional meaning. Incidently if anyone wants to start a movement to ban a game that causes a much greater number of mammalian deaths and injuries - Ill join an anti-football movement any time.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 03:20 AM

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 03:35 PM

look you Yanks gotta sort out for yourself what you want to do.

Over in England, this is class warfare. The nobs (the posh folk that is) enjoy hunting - riding to hounds. Okay some people aren't all that posh, but most of them are.

Quite frankly most of us wouldn't give a toss if they chased the fox with a rusty can opener and ritualisticly strangled it with a pair of sweaty underpants. the point is that its a kick in the goolies for the class that's grabbed the best of everything for itself - particularly the royal family.

the gross indifference they displayed as a class to the working classes in the traditionally poorer parts of England during 18 years of right wing tory rule got a lot of people in the mood for this one.

Is it just? Maybe not. But sometimes however much you bitch about it, you're outnumbered and its tough bananas baby.

Your class behaved badly and all people you were joyously pissing off in Maggies reign, along with the humane treatment for animals gang have found a way to grip your shit

Think of it as payback time for the coalmines, the steel industry and (what was it?) 28% of manufacturing industry in one year alone.
You don't understand our way of life, that's the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 03:50 PM

I argue with you on the point of the steel industry, it was the common market that finished that off, not the tories. Mind you the trade unions did help to weaken it to the extent that it was easy meat. You are right about the class envy thing though, because that's what it's all about, I MAY like what you do, or I may NOT like what you do, but because you are historically my enemy, I will piss on your parade. Never mind Iraq or any of the other things that are more important, let's get the toffs, and forget logic. It's all prejudice and no logic!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,cookieless mcgrath of altcar
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 04:50 AM

The image of portrayed by wee little drummer of a class war is utter nonsense.

I hunt with an entire building site crew, a road repair man, a window cleaner, and a bloke that sweeps the floors at car plant in Crewe, fishermen and several (male & female) nurses.

And of course, Britain's most popular hunting activity (in terms of
numbers) involves the use of Lurchers. Upper class? Bollocks!

Could you site a source for your information oh wee little drummer? If it's a class war, I'm sure you can back up your claim that is the sport of toffs. I know its not. But I'll be interested to see what your source says on the matter. NAME IT!!!

It might not fit in with your little fantasy, oh wee little drummer, but I also stood on picket lines during the miners strike. (At Bold Colliery)

Where does the South Wales Miners Hunt fit in to your picture oh wee little gullible person?

I will not stop hunting until someone gives me a good reason.

Wee little drummers wee little lies don't count.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: shepherdlass
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 02:01 PM

Cock fighting and gladiatorial contests were traditional "sports" too - doesn't mean we were wrong to ban them.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: greg stephens
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 02:44 PM

Shepherdlass: I agree banning gladiator contests was an excellent thing to do.I also think banning drinking in the USA was a stupid thing to do. The question is,what is the relevance of both these perfectly obvious statements to what we are talking about now?

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,Lucia
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 10:07 PM

Its class warfare on the other side of the pond, too WLD.Over here, however, its primarily the rural&working class folk that do the vast majority of the shooting.It's tougher I guess to put that Easy Rider Rifle Rack in the back window of a BMW than it is in a Ford F-150.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 02:49 AM

I'm NOT against hunting, provided the hunter is in need of the hunted for food, intends to give it to the needy for similar reason, or is taking some part in the extermination of some rabid or otherwise dangerous beastie. But no matter what the reason for hunting, to make any kind of ceremony around doing a fellow creature to death is, frankly, juvenile and debasing. Fox hunting --as practised by red-coated posers in the good old UK--bad enough, but the most demeaning of all is so-called "trophy hunting". The cretins who favour this as a "sport' deserve to have their own heads mounted in a set of good old-fashioned stocks and liberally pelted with globs of the shit of whatever inoffensive creature they have slaughtered.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 05:42 AM

I have not made up my mind on this
I like singing hunting songs and others sung by hunting people
I know characters involved in hare hunting, many from working class backgrounds and one or two involved in keeping dogs for this purpose in West Yorks

I understand that foxes kill for the sake of killing and are deemed to be vermin, altho I like all animals personally

I am a townie, not a city person, nor am I a country person
I feel that ways of life are totally differnt wherever you live and what your expectations are

Expect change but what will replace the industry value and way of life; more importantly does the UK government care, or are they tarred with the same brush as Maggie Thatcher who killed off mining communities ~ Arthur Scargill was NOT responsible for the demise of the coal industry and mining communities!!

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 05:58 AM

No padgett, foxes don't kill for the sake of killing that I know of. Humans, are the "best" at that. To make matters worse we do it with thought wheras an animal may be acting on a natural instinct.

What happens though for example is a fox manages to get into a hen house and kills the lot. One theory is the fox trying to silence the noise and a threat therfore caused to itself. So yes the fox will kill more than it needs to eat but it does so in unnatural (man made) situations.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 06:18 AM

The target question (one of many different) has been:
"And to what extent would you support or oppose a ban on hunting with dogs in Britain?"
Those responding "tend to oppose" (14%) and "strongly oppose" (45%) add up to 59%.

This is quite a nice example of how easy it is to distort statistics, even if the original survey was carried out impecciably. Here's a couple of reasons why people might be opposed to the ban without being in favour of hunting.

a) They might be thinking about the proposed legislation and believe it doesn't go far enough - why not ban hunting in toto, not just with dogs.

b) They might be opposed to 'banning things' as an approach, at least until all other alternatives had failed

c) They might feel that the government should not be spending time on this issue 'when there are more important things to do'.


Reading the report is also quite interesting. "An average of 21% of respondents had taken part in hunting with dogs over the period of 12 months prior to the survey, and 16% had participated in hunting with the target hunts. A third of participants had actually ridden with the hunt, with the remainder having followed by foot or vehicle, or attended a meet. Participation in hunting by other family members was reported by 36% of respondents, and 34% were aware of friends who had hunted over the previous year."

Well, I don't know about the rest of you in the UK, but I am fairly sure

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 06:26 AM

Oops!

.. I am fairly sure that one in five of my friends hasn't hunted in the last year.

Part of the reason these figures look odd is that the report is focused, quite intentionally, on the group most directly affected by the ban, not on the general population. This was done to meet its remit, namely to assess "THE EFFECTS OF HUNTING WITH DOGS ON THE SOCIAL AND CULTURAL LIFE OF THE COUNTRYSIDE IN ENGLAND AND WALES".

But the figure of 59% is being presented as if it represents the whole population.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 06:36 AM

Dave, I do have to say that though I'm glad if the hunting is stopped, to some degree I do come into your category b. I do feel in favour of stopping this "pastime" but banning never fits comfortably with me.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 07:43 AM

I think at some point you are going to have to engage with the arguments that people have against hunting rather than just say you like it and its going to go on.

Anyway why would I lie. What profit to me . I don't give a damn whether it stops or goes on . I just recounted an incident from my life.

never been to south wales, no idea what goes on there.

I just think you need some proper arguments. If hunting gives you that much pleasure, I should get your act together. I don't think the big demos are convincing anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: muppett
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 08:19 AM

I saw one of these posters on the road into Otley, someone had painted over it 'LIES' I tend to agree with them.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,Redhorse at work
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 08:45 AM

I may be cynical, but I suspect the unwritten remit of the survey was to produce the highest possible figure in favour of hunting. Most previous surveys came up with figures in support of a ban of 70-80%(urban response) or 60-70%(rural response.)
On the other hand we should be thankful they've stopped those godawful ads suggesting that because a nurse likes hunting we shouln't regard it as uncivilised. Given the choice I would always prefer to be tended in my illness by someone whose idea of fun is not tearing small animals to pieces.

nick

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 10:15 AM

Look if you think I'm lying about it being a class thing.

Think about that headline this week - Price Charles says he won't give up hunting.

Do you really think 95% of the population said well done your majesty. i think the main public reaction - well in your heart of hearts I think you know it, don't you?

As for the miner being keen hunmters. I've lived in (what was) a mining village for the past 30 years. Ex miners down the supermarket, down the pub.... I swear to god theres not one tally ho amongst the lot of them.

I bet some Big Issue sellers have their own table at the Groucho Club, but somehow it doesn't convince.

I don't why I'm giving you constructive advice after all that abuse, but if I were you and I needed a bit of animal cruelty to float my boat. I should take a look at the arguments advanced by those lawyers defending Hal Lal butchers and the like. You must engage with the arguments advanced by your opponents ( who are winning)- not keep warbling mantras to yourself about 'my grandad did it'.

Shudder to think what my grandad did.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,Hugh Jampton
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 10:20 AM

I agree with fox hunting. I have no objection to horse and hounds but I would heartily suggest a start be made, with guns or any other effective method, with the rural/urban foxes that inhabit the Sevenoaks neighbourhood. Upon enquiring with the local council vermin control office, that took no action in respect of foxes, I was directed to a phone site in a Tonbridge charity that advised the listener that all he could do was to discourage the creatures by the application of proprietary deterrents. It was also made clear that any person caught attempting a permanent solution that breached the Wildlife Act could be fined up to £1000`s per offence. As a youngster in Charing, Kent the 12 bore versus fox were "de rigeur". What a silly world we bring upon ourselves.
As for those that would claim "animal rights"!!!
The concession I would agree with is that man should deal with such problems without inflicting gratuitous cruelty.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 11:04 AM

Your first and last sentence kind of contradict?

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,Hugh Jampton
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 11:10 AM

I think not. From what I gather the dispatch is over in a trice. The pack then amuse themselves with a lifeless carcass.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 11:17 AM

fun fun fun eh?

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,Hugh Jampton
Date: 21 Sep 04 - 11:28 AM

Guest, I search high and low in my thread and nowhere can I see the term "fun" so I am at a loss to see your point.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 07:14 AM

Hunting Wwhat? Treasure. Yes. Animals NO!

Lies
Damn Lies
and statistics.

20% of accidents on the roads are caused by drunks.

80% are caused by those who are sober.

Lets get all the sober people off the road to make it safer for the drunks!

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,Greycap
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 08:07 AM

I bloody aren't - I know sadism when I see it.I just want to know how we need two more years to bring it into effect.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,J.Peel
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 11:54 AM

"Sportsmen arouse, the morning is clear.
The larks are singing all in the air"
Etc.,etc.,etc.,

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: John Routledge
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 01:13 PM

Travelling home yesterday I saw many roadside posters "Fight Prejudice - Fight the Ban"

I think this poster is too close to the truth for comfort.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: shepherdlass
Date: 22 Sep 04 - 01:37 PM

Greg, of course I made a perfectly obvious statement (that banning gladiator contests was a good thing) - what I can't get is where the difference lies between (a) two humans tearing each other to shreds for the purposes of enjoyment and (b) several animals tearing a fox to shreds for the purposes of enjoyment (if it's HONESTLY about pest control, why not use a gun?).   Sorry if you didn't get the analogy but it seemed fairly straightforward to me.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,andy
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 02:11 PM

no surprises that a ban will come into place.

In 2001 Lord Burns concluded that hunting with hounds is NO crueler than other forms of killing foxes.
here is the link to the report.
http://www.huntinginquiry.gov.uk/mainsections/huntingreport.htm

No method of killing anything is humane. i wonder how many people have ever been in an aboitoir? that is a very gruesome place.

Now that hunting with hounds will be banned. what is the alternative? shooting foxes. Shooting vermin myself, and working withpeople who shoot foxes, i regret that not every shot at a fox is a clean kill. the fox will often get away and die slowly in a bush. Events like this are also more likely to happen.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/3649160.stm

with foxhunting with houds, the fox either gets away TOTALLY skotch free, or is killed almost instantly. No injured foxes. No foxes running around with legs missing, as they have been caught in a snare.

Someone further up the page mentioned, the "toffs on hourseback in silly clothes, enjoying killing the foxes, where as forrest wardens etc, do it as part of their job." I suppose if these "toffs wore jeans, and hunted foxes with a miserable face, that would be ok then would it?"
I hunt mainly because i enjoy it. i offer to shoot vermin as i enjoy being outdoors, hutning is instinctive. Do other animals get "banned" from hunting? or told they are cruel because they hunt?
the people riding horses, dont kill anything, the dogs do that, as it is in their instincts. Are we going to arrest dogs for killing a fox or a squirrel?

I think you will find most people could not care less if fox hunting is banned, after all, it doesnt affect them in any way. this foxhunting debate has put back hospital and pension bills.
Tony Blair is a liar. He promised hunters that it would NOT be banned, and before his election, said that he would ban it.
However, he also promised Education education education, better healthcare etc etc, but he hasnt done any of these yet.......presumably he has been too busy banning fox hunting.

Foxhunting is very english. sadly we are not allowed to be english any more, and what remains of it now?

Most of these animal rights people are weirdo's. Girls with silly coloured hair, that stick up posters of "cute" foxes. They live in towns and havent got a clue about how the countryside works, so they should keep their nose out.

i wouldnt dream of banning something just because of my personal oppinion. Who are affected by the ban, people in the countryside, who are anti-hunt, people living in the cities. sorry to break the bad news people, but animals die all the time in the countryside.

Why not ban cars? cars kill far more foxes than hounds. What harm has foxhunting ever done to anyone not involved?

all the best
andy

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 02:25 PM

What do you think of bearbaiting? You don't live in Turkey after all.
Is that OK too? A bit of harmless jollity? Just because people are not directly effected doesn't mean they do not have opinions and feelings.
As the saying goes: no sense, no feeling.
And wow what a surprise that a member of the house of Lords speaks out in huntings defence. A real man of the people!

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 04:19 PM

Slight thread creep: When the Nazis first came into Hungary when my Mom was a preteen, the kids in her extended family didn't know they were Jewish, or what being Jewish meant, but they were told at school to raise their hands when asked if they were Jewish. One cousin went home and asked, Are we Jewish? Parents said yes. Well, came the follow-up, what is a Jew? Answer, after long thought: A Jew is someone who doesn't go hunting.
True story!

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 05:24 PM

First off, in my post i said "i wouldnt dream of banning something just because of my personal oppinion."
I do have oppinions about Bear bating, i think it is cruel, as the bears suffers ONLY for people to watch and place bets on whatever, but who am i to tell the Turks that?

These bears dont have to be killed it is purely sport or tradition. Fox numbers have to be controlled one way or another. If people enjoy doing this, then all the better.
I dont live in turkey, so it is not for us to criticise them as we dont know their customs and traditions. They have different values to us, and so probably dont believe what they are doing is cruel. After all, we are told we have to respect other cultures and all that?!

What about Halaal meat, often not stunned as in the ASEAR regs, then the animal has its throat sliced, or sawed with a knife whilst still alive? that is cruel shorly? But it is offered in school menus in my city.

Foxes are vermin, and are farmers want/need them controlling. Alternatives to fox hunting are shooting, snaring, gassing, etc. Although i have snared foxes, it isnt atall nice, the fox will be trapped for hours, constantly tugging/chewing at its leg to get it off. Shooting often results in the fox not being cleany dispatched.
Fox hunting with hounds has been PROVEN to be no more cruel than other ways.

got to go, all the best
andy

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 07:29 PM

Fox numbers have to be controlled one way or another. If people enjoy doing this, then all the better.

Prehaps one clear reason why people like you make me want to vomit.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 23 Sep 04 - 07:38 PM

(I mean by that I may want to control but to enjoy it????)

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 02:47 AM

People dont enjoy killing foxes, they dont kill foxes, the dogs do. I enjoy shooting. I dont enjoy killing animals, of course not, noone should, if they are normal, of course i feel remorse.
But i enjoy being out in the countryside away from everyone else.
I guess that is the same with foxhunters, the thrill of riding a horse through fields and over hedges must be amazing.

So what you are saying is that fox control is fine, as long as no-one enjoys doing it. Just because the hunters enjoy the occasion, that is wrong?

all the best

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 08:00 AM

When the ban happens, and it will, hey democracy CAN work...the hunters can turn their attentions to killing rats? Can't see any great objection there.

They could dress up on Saturdays in snazzy furry bomber jackets, they could even wear little mousey masks and false ears.They can charge up and down the city streets shouting, "We are hunters, we are good, we are here to exterminate vermin." They could even throw in the odd Tally Ho for old times sake.

See, there's always a solution that satisfies everybody.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 08:33 AM

Good idea, GUEST. The billing specifically outlaws (and I quote), "hunting wild mammals with dogs". There are an interesting set of options to stay within the law, as you suggest:

* Hunting wild creatures that are not mammals. Rats are certainly a possibility. An earthworm hunt sounds a little less exciting, perhaps, but it would be legal. They could sent a pack of hounds after buterflies. Or they could combine traditions and hunt wrens (though that may well be a protected species under other legislation.)

* They could hunt with something other than dogs. Sheep are perhaps not terribly effective, but tigers might be entertaining and could do wonders for preserving an endangered species. Hyenas could get lawyers excited as to whether they are dogs or not.

* They could rear foxes domestically and then hunt them.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,milk monitor
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 09:23 AM

DMcG, ah your ideas are much more sophisticated than my own, and all sure fire winners. I like the idea of hunting with tigers. Butterflies have had it too easy too long.

Horses may not be too suitable for inner city cobbles, but I am sure that a fleet of adapted Tesco trolleys would suffice? The lighter hunter in the trolley and the heavier hunter pushing.

We are told that within cities we are never more than six feet away from a rat, so they could even hunt with specially extended brooms? The brush connection could satisfy the loss of the fox from their lives.

See, it's not all over hunters, there are so many things for you to kill. It just takes a little thought.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 09:32 AM

Sorry, we've blown it. Rats are mammals. It's gonna have to be those butterflies.... no, I've got it. A WASP HUNT!

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,milk monitor
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 09:37 AM

Ok the butterflies get it. There'll be no more sheep worried by Cabbage Whites.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 02:19 PM

There is absolutely NO reason for butterflies, earthworms and all these other silly things you suggest, to be hunted. Foxes ARE a problem, and need controlling. Hunting butterflies for the sake of it would be unnecesarily cruel.
I am against game shooting as the birds are bread only to be shot, which i think is cruel. I know people who shoot game, and i dont impose my oppinions on them.
However, i think banning pheasant shooting etc, would have a detrimental affect to the countryside, as shooters put a MASSIVE amount of money into farms and estates, and do a lot of good forest work.
In the same way, i think if fishing was banned, the waters would be in a worse state, and there would be hardly any of them. Many lakes etc were made for fishing. Excluding the filthy fishermen that litter the banks, and destroy their own sport, and get a bad press for angling, many fishermen help alot in preserving the waters. Organizations such as the Salmon and Trout Organization, and the ACA (of which Chris Tarrant, is the chairman)

Shooting rats is valid, they are vermin. Many people shoot rats with airguns, and many countryside people keep ferrets or dogs for killing rats in the barns. Rats are filthy, and no one wants them around.
In the same way, they hunt foxes. What are you getting at?

i think most people percieve foxhunters to be upper-class, and resent them for that reason. I can 100% tell you that none of the people i know are "Toffs." Most of them you would NEVER guess hunted. Just ordinary people. Many have got into it from riding horses, and are invited to go on a hunt.

all the best

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 25 Sep 04 - 02:05 AM

If Foxhunting is a Sport, who is the current champion?

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 04 - 01:01 PM

"Given that most game animals are as doomed to die sooner or later as we are, although they have the advantage of not being aware of it, can anyone tell me of a way in which an animal (in the wild) is likely to die, that involves less pain, discomfort, or fear for the animal, than a well-placed shot with a sufficiently powerful firearm, by a hunter who knows what he's doing?

Of course, a lot of hunters don't know what they're doing, or don't care, but that's another issue. If we judge all hunters by the behavior of the worst specimens, then we can't disagree with doing the same for racial or ethic subgroups, can we?"



Frightening, truly frightening....many humans die in pain, perhaps all they need is a well placed shot, at 50 perhaps, just in case they're heading toward a painful death.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Sep 04 - 10:33 AM

refresh--guest makes a good point

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: Blowzabella
Date: 26 Sep 04 - 01:04 PM

Instead of butterflies - how about red ants - there are lots in my garden. How do you hunt red ants?

Incidentally, I once saw a red ant funeral. In the house I used to live, the garden was absolutely plagued with them and, I confess, I had gone round with the white powder, to try and stem the flow a bit.   

Not long afterwards. I saw the 'survivors' of one nest, having a clear out of their dead. They were carrying them all out of the nest and chucking them in my pond!

And once, when in Rome, I saw a train of caterpillars, but that's another story...

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Sep 04 - 01:14 PM

By hunters we mean fox hunters. They are the ones in the news at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: Blowzabella
Date: 26 Sep 04 - 01:37 PM

and 'we' would be...?

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 07:35 AM

In a recent interview with Otis Ferry the Youngest Master of Houndsthe one who got into the House. He said That on one day of fox hunting they chased 9 but only caught `1 Now that is that an efficient way of pest control! All those people and dogs and damage to the fields and crops and hedges and fences.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: GUEST,milk monitor
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 07:49 AM

And to think, I had a crush on his father.

Subject: RE: BS: 59% of the people in favour of hunting?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 27 Sep 04 - 08:14 AM

200. I thank you.