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Tech: XLR cables.
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Subject: Tech: XLR cables. From: Nevada Date: 22 Oct 03 - 01:02 PM I've been trying to find out what XLR actually stands for, but had no luck. PLEASE help. Luv AAA x |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: Mark Clark Date: 22 Oct 03 - 01:10 PM I think in the audio field, it could indicate extra long run or extra low resistance. - Mark |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: Clinton Hammond Date: 22 Oct 03 - 01:34 PM According to www.hightechbuzzwords.com XLR stands for "extra long run" |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: JedMarum Date: 22 Oct 03 - 02:41 PM An XLR connector describes the male/female 3 pole connectors used for low impedence cables. These cables are designed to carry mic or other signal level inputs over a stage-sized cable length to a mixing console, amp input or a snake (and hence over an even longer run). Low impedence, so that a higher current signal can travel the cable run without much signal loss. Guitar outputs are typically high impedence, two pole, unbalanced signals. Most modern stage mics are low impedence, 3 pole, balanced signals. Although many guitar (and other instrument) outputs are "pre-amped" these days, and therefore capable of making long runs with signal loss problems, they are frequently still 2 pole, unbalanced signals. XLRs are better connectors. We often convert our unbalanced, hi impedence signals from guitars to low impedence through the DI box on-stage. And many guiatr player are using some combination of pick-ups with condesnser mics in their insrutuments - but we still typically use a 1/4", unbalanced, output! This is a shame, becasue the XLR is MUCH more practical connector. I would much rather come out of my instruments with balance, low impedence signal on an XLR connector. It is a surer fit (positive, locked connection won't get pulled by accident), we could drop using 1/4" connectors, and stop carrying extra cables, why not just plug a mic cable into your guitar ... problem is; industry standard. The 1/4" cable is too well intrenched in the music business. So what if BETA tape were better - VHS won becasue of marketshare - so whatif Apple had the better interface - MS won marketshare ... OK, Jed, now yuo're beginning to ramble a bit! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: Ralphie Date: 22 Oct 03 - 03:14 PM Jed...Oh how right you are. Have just fitted my various "Instruments of mass deception" with the Fishman Rare Earth setup....and have had to go back to soldering my own Stereo Jack leads to connect to my Raven Blender box.... XLR's would have been so much easier!! Just try buying Stereo Jack to Jacks of merchantible quality in the UK...!! Regards Ralphie |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: treewind Date: 22 Oct 03 - 03:16 PM Pin 1 X - Shield/ground (why X? don't ask me!) Pin 2 L - Live Pin 3 R - Return Whether or not this was Cannon's intention when they invented it, it's a helpful mnemonic for remembering which pin is which. Of course Live and Return are a bit misleading on a true balanced signal, but it's intuitive enough to translate correctly into Hot and Cold or + and - respectively. Beware: the pins are not in order:
Anahata |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: treewind Date: 22 Oct 03 - 03:22 PM Google to the rescue: one source suggests X stands for eXternal, as in outer conductor sourrounding the other two. Well, maybe... BTW one other nice thing about them, in addition to Jed's wisdom on the subject, is that you can connect any number of them together to make a longer cable. Doing that with jacks is very messy... Anahata |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: Ralphie Date: 22 Oct 03 - 03:26 PM Anahata.... Oi!!! Thats my job...!!! (plugging things to other things I mean!) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: Blowzabella Date: 22 Oct 03 - 04:13 PM I think it is the model which replaced the Fireball XL5 isn't it? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: Clinton Hammond Date: 22 Oct 03 - 06:05 PM O.k... I guess this is for Jed then.... Any suggestiuons on how to swap out one, stereo, 1/4" plug hole in a guitar with a blended pick up system, for say 2 XLR plugs? Would you NEED two? This enquiring mind would like to know... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: JedMarum Date: 22 Oct 03 - 11:17 PM Well, unfortunately the blended pick-u system is likely to have been built for a single 1/4" output. Again, because the industry standard is 1/4" - I know some players, who placed an XLR connector into the guitar (by the way, the blending is usually done inside the guitar so a single output comes through the connector). These are usually the guys who place a condenser mic inside their guitars. The XLR is mounted below the strap button on the bottom rim. It means cutting your guitar, and ought to be planned and executed by someone who knows the guitar design well. You can damage your instrument. I just wish the industry would plan for XLR connector from the guitars, and design them into the instrument. They are much better connectors and your'e already at low impedence. I love the sound of the Rare Earth pick-ups and have an keen interest in the Rare Earth Custom Blend. I like to use a mic on a stand, in addition to my pick-up (also a Fishman) when I know I have someone good at the console. My guitar sounds too good to only capture the pick-up - I used to hate the blends (never sound better then a straight pick-up and frequently caused feedback probs). BUT - I see theyr're improving, recently and I am tempted. I still think putting a mic inside the guitar is the wrong place - but I've hearad a few that sound great. Anyway - thread creep. Sorry. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: Nevada Date: 23 Oct 03 - 02:52 AM Thank you everyone! I'm now one up on my tech teacher. Luv AAA x |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: GUEST,Ghirotondo at work Date: 23 Oct 03 - 05:11 AM Since the most important feature of XLR connection is to connect to a balanced input (two wires plus ground), the standard three wire stereo jacks (TSR) can be used, thus avoiding cutting the guitar. This socket can replace (as usually) the strap holder. Ghiro |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: Ralphie Date: 23 Oct 03 - 06:03 AM GUEST Ghirotondo. Thats exactly what I've done to get the two discrete signals from the "Fishman" to the "Raven"...All one needs to do then is to pan the Fishman Blender pot fully clockwise (or is it anticlockwise?!!) and let the 2 signal paths of the Raven do the rest.. So Jed this might be the best solution for you? It certainly works for me!! And anyway, the thought of drilling XLR size holes in my Fyldes and the Sobell makes my eyes water!! Plug where plug is due. I was recommended the Raven system by Martin Simpson, nuff said I think! Happy experimenting to you all Ralphie |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: Pied Piper Date: 23 Oct 03 - 08:00 AM I thought this was one of the Enterprises sensor modules, the X-Ray Laser Radar, for detecting temporal distortions using Chronotron scattering. TTFN PP |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: wysiwyg Date: 23 Oct 03 - 10:51 AM If you're going from a 1/4" plug into an XLR socket, beware the cables that are XLR on one end only, without a built-in transformer. Unless you can see a built-in transformer, better to add a separate transformer. The cables that are XLR-pins on one end and 1/4" on the other are crap. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: Clinton Hammond Date: 23 Oct 03 - 02:04 PM "thought of drilling XLR size holes... makes my eyes water!!" Coward! LOL |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: Jacob B Date: 23 Oct 03 - 04:29 PM What about the situation where the musicians have 1/4" cables coming from their direct boxes, but the inputs on my mixer are XLR? Since the last time I ran into this problem I've bought some 1/4" to XLR adapters, but there is no sign of a transformer on them. Are they adequate? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: GUEST,Claymore Date: 23 Oct 03 - 04:57 PM Jacob B, you should not have a 1/4 line coming FROM your direct box. The convention is 1/4 out of the guitar and into the box, XLR out to an XLR line to the board. Those inline transformers are not worth the money, in my opinion. The Behringer DI 100 is an active DI (run either off a nine volt battery, or phantom power from the mixer). It is an excellent DI (I have 8 to use with my systems) and the price has dropped from $65 six years ago to now about $30 (try americanmusical.com). It also has two 20db pads and a link which allows you to plug your guitars 1/4 inch into the box (Input), plug another 1/4 out to your on-stage amp (Link) AND send a balanced signal all the way back to the FOH mixer. (Way better than just micing the amp). Just remember that when you go over twenty feet to, or from, on a 1/4 line, you are really stringing up a twenty foot radio antenna, that is cutting your highs the further you go. With a balanced line (XLR) you can go up to 600 feet. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: Jacob B Date: 23 Oct 03 - 05:44 PM Claymore, it sounds like you are dealing with a much fancier system than I have. It also sounds like you are dealing with the entire sound system. In my case, the amp and mixer are mine, but I might never have worked with the musicians before, and my problem starts when they give me their 1/4" plugs. I want to have equipment handy so that I'll be able to put them into my mixer, then balance them in the mixer and have one volume control for the entire band. (I'm a dance caller, providing the sound system for a dance I'm calling.) I now have some adapters from 1/4" female phone plug to male XLR. They were cheap, and they don't add any additional length of unbalanced line, but do they do an adequate job? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: GUEST,Claymore Date: 24 Oct 03 - 12:25 PM Jacob B, Yes, though they are not delivering balanced sound, just converting the unbalanced line into a format that your mixer will accept. As long as you are not going over twenty feet from the guitar, etc to your box you should have no problem. (And even if you go over twenty feet, the sound loss or radio pick-up is progressive, and you may not notice it at thirty feet, except in the quieter passages). |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: wysiwyg Date: 24 Oct 03 - 01:01 PM Right, that's how we're using them too, with no problems. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: wildlone Date: 24 Oct 03 - 06:21 PM XLR sized hole? LOL dave |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XLR cables. From: Richard Bridge Date: 25 Oct 03 - 03:55 AM First thought I've seen some guitars with factory installed mini-XLR sockets next to the jack socket, haven't I? Second thought Guitarists who have amps often like to control sound at the amp, not vollume but tone (and for electric players, distortion etc). THey may even have FX pedals between guitar and amp. You can take a DI or line out off the amp if there is one. But, and it's a big but, if they have set huge amounts of treble spikes into the FX they will have done so to brighten the output of a guitar speaker - which will usually have no response above 3K. Put htat in to your desk, which will in turn feed proper speakers with tweeters, adn you are delivering massive distorted, often clipped, treble to your tweeters adn this may well either sound awful or blow up your tweeters. In such a case, mic the guitar cab, and in effect use the limitations of the guitar speaker to "filter" out those treble spikes. It also keeps guitarists "I've paid thousands for my Mesa Boogie and I want to hear the sound of the Mesa Boogie not some poxy sound desk" quiet, adn a stroppy prima donna like that can wreck almost any gig. |
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