NPR - degradation of language & music

Subject: RE: NPR - degradation of language & music
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 02 Nov 03 - 12:57 PM

On the other hand, brucie... et too brucie?...

curling and slur-a-ling in yer dictionary dew,
Don't captivate or activate much quite intended new
but agrivates coroborates in certain lack of learning
respecting less untill digress finds pleasure in a spurning

Seriously brucie... the dictionary isn't always 20 years behind the 'cutting edge' of language... occasionally is a more apt expression here imho... When communication implied is achieved with absolute success 100 percent of the time, and across cultural and regional differences, we can leave the most esteemable mister Dictionary in the dusty coffures of history... in the meantime he is a most agreeable social animal, capable of bringing light and understanding to even the darkest little misunderstandings... ttr

Subject: RE: NPR - degradation of language & music
From: Peace
Date: 02 Nov 03 - 05:40 PM

And on the other other hand, I enjoyed your poem, Thomas.

OK, your point's well taken. But recall the time we had when bad meant good (Michael Jackson?), cool became hot (as in "s/he's cool" in the sixties to "s/he's hot" in the zeros), and 'doh' makes it into the dictionary and the back formation of 'link' as the singular for the cat of the plural name (lynx) doesn't. I agree that dictionaries are not an enemy of language, but they are often not its ultimate arbiter, either.

Good rhyme you wrote, by the way.

Subject: RE: NPR - degradation of language & music
From: s&r
Date: 02 Nov 03 - 05:46 PM

Language changes. Degradation is a pejoritative term applied by those who don't like the changes.

Most people use several versions of their mother tongue:

1

Subject: RE: NPR - degradation of language & music
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Nov 03 - 06:04 PM

""I can't get to my member area and I can't send you a PM". "

Oh yes you can, Uncle Dave. You can log on and get access to your Personal Page and send PMs and so on on any computer with Intrnet access. So long as you can remember your Mudcat name and password.

All you have to do is click on membership, and then click on the bit on the registratin opage where it says "If you are already a member, but your information does not appear below, click here."

Subject: RE: NPR - degradation of language & music
From: GUEST,McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Nov 03 - 06:05 PM

And that GUEST there was me.

Subject: RE: NPR - degradation of language & music
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 02 Nov 03 - 09:29 PM

s&r said: "Most people use several versions of their mother tongue."

Absotively. Posolutely!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: NPR - degradation of language & music
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Nov 03 - 10:16 PM

Degradation does not neccessarily equate good change.

Dave, I am recording it right now. Watch yer email!

Oh, and who said kewl used to mean hot?!**bg**

Subject: RE: NPR - degradation of language & music
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 07:00 AM

OK folks, I get the message -- I'll shut up!

Kat, surely "degradation" can only mean change for the worse?

Steve

Subject: RE: NPR - degradation of language & music
From: M.Ted
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 03:58 PM

Don't shut up, Steve--you put an idea on the table that got us thinking, which is always worthwhile--while I was away from the computer, and I ended up digging out some samples of Middle English and Old French, and other things to compare, then ended up looking up a few things on the net--All interesting, to me, at least, and nothing that I would have done otherwise--

Subject: RE: NPR - degradation of language & music
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 04:15 PM

"...change for the worse" - true, it does tend to get taken as always implying that.

But it shouldn't really - reducing something to a simpler form might make it more useful for some purposes. If you're baking a cake, flour is more useful than grains of wheat. Someone who was a terrible officer, when reduced in rank ("degraded"), might make a first rate soldier. In folk terms an over-ornate and over-long broadsheet ballad might get worn down over the years and give rise to a wonderful song.

We tend not to use the word that way. But we do use the meaning of the word, divorced from its associations, as a process we can view favourably.

Subject: RE: NPR - degradation of language & music
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 04 Nov 03 - 04:21 AM

Why, thank you, M Ted! I have been known to advance the most outrageous proposals to my friends, just to provoke a bit of intelligent discussion. I don't normally do that here, as the written word can carry a lot more weight than it warrants, and I don't mean to spread misinformation.

Kevin, my handy on-screen dictionary/thesaurus defines "degradation" thus:
1. Changing to a lower state (a less respected state)
2. A low or downcast state
Discuss ...

Steve

Subject: RE: NPR - degradation of language & music
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Nov 03 - 07:14 AM

I think my last post did discuss that. Going down, or getting smaller, or getting less complicated can all be good things to do sometimes.

Nowadays they use made up words, such as "downsizing" to avoid the negative associations tied up with the actual word "degrading".

Subject: RE: NPR - degradation of language & music
From: Peace
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 06:19 PM

After the teacher finished degrading, s/he gave the students their marks.

Subject: RE: NPR - degradation of language & music
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 12:31 AM

But if s/he was degrading the students' papers, surely there would be no marks?:-) Reminds of the old "Composers don't die, they just decompose."

Subject: RE: NPR - degradation of language & music
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 04:13 AM

Depends, Kat: if she made marks all over the papers, they'd be degraded all right. Alternatively, "After s/he degraded the students, s/he marked their papers."

I suspect brucie may have been employing to the sense of this story:
You'll remember Idi Amin, sometime president of Uganda? he was lie a cross between George W Bush and Jack the Ripper, only African. One day a newspaper reporter asked him, "What do you propose to do about defence, General" He replied, "Don' worry about de fence, I got de man comin' in de mornin' wid de hammer and de nails!"

Now that's degrading!

Steve

Subject: RE: NPR - degradation of language & music
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 09:40 AM

To amend Brucie's post:

After the teacher finished degrading, s/he gave de students their marks.

or maybe After the teacher finished degrading, s/he gave D students their marks.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: NPR - degradation of language & music
From: JennyO
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 10:27 AM

So those students were D Graded.

Subject: RE: NPR - degradation of language & music
From: Peace
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 10:32 AM

There are times a guy should know better than to post here.

I will say the following a few times:

WHALE
OIL
BEEF
HOOKED

Subject: RE: NPR - degradation of language & music
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 11:05 AM

LOL...I think the author shoudl read this thread!

To amend Dave O's: After the teacher finished degrading, s/he gave de students der marks. Or, even, de marks.:-)